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Home title or deed theft - really?

 
Old 05-15-2019, 06:52 AM
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Peva
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Default Home title or deed theft - really?

I hear these radio ads for home title theft insurance. Oh my! Bill O’Reilly’s friend “almost” had his house title stolen! Really! (sounds made up to me)

It starts with identity theft? And ID theft insurance doesn’t cover it? Why not? Does LifeLock®‘s policy exclude protecting you when ID theft is the mechanism of title theft? Why? Doesn’t their policy cover up to one or two million dollars - enough to cover the value of the great majority of homes.

Something’s not right! How about requiring enough info. and proof of ID and traceability to an identifiable banking mechanism before equity loan transactions and/or transfer of title are made so that the perp is physically identifiable and funds recoverable, and if that is not done, make the entity that allowed it to happen accountable to restore the losses to the proper owner. For goodness sake! The house/property itself is not moveable, so it should easily be recoverable back to the proper owners use and control. Why is an additional insurance policy needed for this?

I’ve never understood why ID thieves themselves are protected by law enforcement from being identified to the victim. What other types of crime give that kind of protection to the accused perp.? Are perps not routinely identified, apprehended, and prosecuted? If not, why not? Why is our system allowed to operate with invisible, untraceable threads back to where the money and value goes?

I’m not a legal, financial, or real estate expert by any stretch, so I’m sure I’m asking a lot of my questions out of an abundance of ignorance, but something seriously is wrong with our system.

Last edited by Peva; 05-15-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:59 AM
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PatternDayTrader
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A fraudulent lien or transfer of ownership (deed) isn't a legitimate lien or transfer. Its a way to scam the lender or the new "owner".
The real owner doesn't have much to worry about except that this sort of thing is hassle that sucks to deal with.
The scam here is this insurance product, and the hyped up sales pitch for it.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:01 AM
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Lots of information on internet. Make your bank account passwords difficult too. We couldn’t get into our account recently. Bank locked the account as someone made several unsuccessful password attempts to gain access. Consider too the reverse mortgage legal theft of the elderly.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/ne...tealing_032508

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Old 05-15-2019, 08:01 AM
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Yet another reason why your credit reports should always stay locked. Only unfreeze when necessary.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:46 AM
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Frankie the Fink
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Isn’t that the whole point of the outlandishly expensive title search when you close escrow?
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Isn’t that the whole point of the outlandishly expensive title search when you close escrow?
Sort of, and sort of not.

Whats happening is people a forging deeds, then recording them, then cash out refinancing and absconding with the money. Or, they might try and sell the house to an unsuspecting person who thinks he/she is getting an unbelievable cash deal.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
A fraudulent lien or transfer of ownership (deed) isn't a legitimate lien or transfer. Its a way to scam the lender or the new "owner".
The real owner doesn't have much to worry about except that this sort of thing is hassle that sucks to deal with.
The scam here is this insurance product, and the hyped up sales pitch for it.
That’s kind of my ignorant, common-sense take on it, which is why I asked the question. It just didn’t make sense that we would need an extra policy for this.

Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Isn’t that the whole point of the outlandishly expensive title search when you close escrow?
Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Sort of, and sort of not.

Whats happening is people a forging deeds, then recording them, then cash out refinancing and absconding with the money. Or, they might try and sell the house to an unsuspecting person who thinks he/she is getting an unbelievable cash deal.
I’m thinking the bolded is what Mr. the Fink was getting at.

Last edited by Peva; 05-15-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Frankie the Fink View Post
Isn’t that the whole point of the outlandishly expensive title search when you close escrow?


When we sold our first house, the title company did all the research/work, we just provided the contract and our id's.
Many years ago I read that one of the things you don't need to worry about is a deed to your house because it's recorded.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:09 PM
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Totally real; crooks will steal your title, and take your house to a chop shop and turn it into black market house parts. You will wake up one morning, house totally gone and your bed in the front yard.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:09 PM
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Lol …
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:12 PM
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I DO know of some illicit shenanigans with Quit Claim Deeds...and "Ladybird" Deeds.

Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 05-15-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:16 PM
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If you happen to live in an area where the county recorders office still uses a card system for organizing deeds, mortgages, discharges ect … and one of the cards gets lost, or placed out of order, then I could see where you really could lose your house. You sure wont be talking a county paid employee into believing they have made a mistake, and if you don't have the original notarized and time stamped deed, then I don't know how you would rectify this situation. Quiet title suit I guess. I don't know.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:20 PM
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Anyone can walk into a County Clerk and file anything. There is no ID request, there is no fact check, there is no check at all. Very little if any law enforcement after the face. It becomes a royal pain in the *** to align things after they are destroyed. And, it cost money. Freeze your credit is the best all around answer.

I bought a foreclosure last year at the courthouse, after finally evicting the debtor and rehab the debtor leased it to someone, collect 2 large and they moved in. **** happens.

Last edited by hope2; 05-15-2019 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hope2 View Post
Anyone can walk into a County Clerk and file anything. There is no ID request, there is no fact check, there is no check at all. Very little if any law enforcement after the face. It becomes a royal pain in the *** to align things after they are destroyed. And, it cost money. Freeze your credit is the best all around answer.

I bought a foreclosure last year at the courthouse, after finally evicting the debtor and rehab the debtor leased it to someone, collect 2 large and they moved in. **** happens.
Lol … Did you have to evict the "new" tenant too ? Didn't you change the locks after you booted the debtor ?
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:53 PM
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Some information on fraudulent Quitclaim deeds: These are a different instrument than a warranty deed used when buying or selling.

https://schorr-law.com/quitclaim-deed-fraud/

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...e47702025.html

The respective Clerk of Courts are going to need to step up their verification processes to help prevent this. It's way too easy for scamsters.

Last edited by 69L46; 05-15-2019 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Lol … Did you have to evict the "new" tenant too ? Didn't you change the locks after you booted the debtor ?
Fortunately the new tenant left in few days after being informed of the facts, beating up the newly finished floors. That said they helped themselves to ceiling mounted projector and screen, and washer dryer. We did get the washer dryer back. We did change the locks and the garage door codes.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 69L46 View Post
Some information on fraudulent Quitclaim deeds: These are a different instrument than a warranty deed used when buying or selling.

https://schorr-law.com/quitclaim-deed-fraud/

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...e47702025.html

The respective Clerk of Courts are going to need to step up their verification processes to help prevent this. It's way too easy for scamsters.
Verifying whos who in these transactions is up to the notary. In fact that is their specific purpose.
Honestly, as strange as it sounds, the last thing you want is the deeds office handling this.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by hope2 View Post
Fortunately the new tenant left in few days after being informed of the facts, beating up the newly finished floors. That said they helped themselves to ceiling mounted projector and screen, and washer dryer. We did get the washer dryer back. We did change the locks and the garage door codes.
What a pain the backside.
Ive bought at least 60 houses on the courthouse steps, they all had surprises of some sort.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PatternDayTrader View Post
Verifying whos who in these transactions is up to the notary. In fact that is their specific purpose.
Honestly, as strange as it sounds, the last thing you want is the deeds office handling this.
From the Miami Herald piece:

The form was supposedly witnessed by a notary named Kent Taylor — someone who does not exist.

I don't want my protections in this area hinging solely on the notary. There should be a multi-layered approach towards validating ownership besides someone's signature.

Last edited by 69L46; 05-15-2019 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 69L46 View Post
From the Miami Herald piece:

The form was supposedly witnessed by a notary named Kent Taylor — someone who does not exist.


I don't want my protections in this area hinging solely on the notary. There should be a multi-layered approach towards validating ownership besides someone's signature.
That is the express purpose of the notary. Entangling the deeds office personnel into the situation wont help. It will make thing worse.
Someone who really wants to be sure about their title chain should just make it a point to look every so often.
The majority of recorded documents are online, and if not free, there is a summary of the content that will be free.

Last edited by PatternDayTrader; 05-15-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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