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We either have Freedom of the Press or we don't.

 
Old 05-15-2019, 11:01 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by pdiddy972 View Post
Facebook, twitter and instagram aren't "press".

And the press is free to report on what they want. Where's the lack of press freedom?
Facebook is definitely teetering on the line. They've taken the role of publisher, that's for sure. And they aggregate and disseminate news, and decide how that news is presented.

It's not clear cut. I'm on the side against gov intervention, but just barely. Personally I think all of you who are complaining about this need to stop using these services. Social media is poisoning your mind and the way you live your life. Get off.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:10 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Mr D. View Post
Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram are a business, their bat and ball. Until they redefine their business as a News Media outlet they remain social media platforms.


The New Your Times is a business too...as is every other news media outlet.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:29 PM
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It can easily be argued that Facebook is now a utility (monopolistic IMHO) and can be compelled to be fair.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie N View Post
Facebook is definitely teetering on the line. They've taken the role of publisher, that's for sure. And they aggregate and disseminate news, and decide how that news is presented.

It's not clear cut. I'm on the side against gov intervention, but just barely. Personally I think all of you who are complaining about this need to stop using these services. Social media is poisoning your mind and the way you live your life. Get off.
The have also become the distributor with editorial license to not carry any product they oppose on political grounds, employing the same tactic as the Soviet's in the 1930's. The Soviet people had free speech, but the Communist Party regulated what content could be distributed. Publications opposing the Communists were created, but restricted at the distribution portal. Today we can read some of the published material opposing the left leaning Democratic Party platform, but much of the published content is regulated at the left-allied distributors.

We need full wild west freedom of speech across all platforms.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ragtop_Rob View Post
It can easily be argued that Facebook is now a utility (monopolistic IMHO) and can be compelled to be fair.
Facebook is hardly a necessary public utility. Just don't go there. Don't read the Times or watch CNN. It's all free choice.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:58 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
The have also become the distributor with editorial license to not carry any product they oppose on political grounds, employing the same tactic as the Soviet's in the 1930's. The Soviet people had free speech, but the Communist Party regulated what content could be distributed. Publications opposing the Communists were created, but restricted at the distribution portal. Today we can read some of the published material opposing the left leaning Democratic Party platform, but much of the published content is regulated at the left-allied distributors.

We need full wild west freedom of speech across all platforms.
Facebook is hardly a gov't agency or entity. IMO we have no business telling Facebook what to say or not say.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:58 PM
  #27  
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All devices have an off switch, try using it sometimes.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:57 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Facebook is hardly a necessary public utility. Just don't go there. Don't read the Times or watch CNN. It's all free choice.
It is a utility used by over 2 BILLION people each month. it is the world's largest single communication platform. It will be regulated IMHO.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8267226.html

https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/17/fa...ublic-utility/

Last edited by Ragtop_Rob; 05-15-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:04 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Ragtop_Rob View Post
It is a utility used by over 2 BILLION people each month. it is the world's largest single communication platform. It will be regulated IMHO.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8267226.html

https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/17/fa...ublic-utility/
Have at it. I would not support such a governmental take over of our freedoms of speech. I don't consider any of those to be utilities, since everyone is there optionally, and can live a normal life without them. As opposed to water and electricity.

They are media, information, naturally biased. User beware.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:13 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Have at it. I would not support such a governmental take over of our freedoms of speech. I don't consider any of those to be utilities, since everyone is there optionally, and can live a normal life without them. As opposed to water and electricity.

They are media, information, naturally biased. User beware.
You can live with well water and solar power, so municipal supplies are optional.

It's not about necessity. It's about how the utility is used in modern life. Is the internet necessary? Are social media accounts necessary? For millions of people in thousands of industries, the answer to both questions is definitely YES. The fact of the matter remains that these services are monopolies, and optional or not, a massive number of Americans get their information there.

It's not so black and white

Last edited by Jackie N; 05-15-2019 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:39 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Have at it. I would not support such a governmental take over of our freedoms of speech. I don't consider any of those to be utilities, since everyone is there optionally, and can live a normal life without them. As opposed to water and electricity.

They are media, information, naturally biased. User beware.
Oh, I don't support it either - i just see it coming...
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:58 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Facebook is hardly a gov't agency or entity. IMO we have no business telling Facebook what to say or not say.
You are stuck in an obsolete paradigm.

ATT, Bell Telephone, (etc.), were never government agencies, or entities, and they were prohibited from monitoring calls and censuring call content. The computing power of the era was not capable of detecting keywords to flag active censure and suppression like today, but switchboard operators could listen in to calls and were prohibited from disclosing or censuring intercepted call content.

FB/Instagram/Messenger and Google message applications, or FaceTime (Apple) and Skype (Microsoft), are all evolved mediums of telecommunication that much of the public now depends upon for necessary and customary communication, much like wired telephones of past decades. While these applications began as novelty social media platforms, people now use them as communication utilities just like we used telephones fifty years ago.

I don't expect older people to use these applications as communication mediums like young adults do, but I also caution that you need to recognize they are now used for much more than sharing photos of grandchildren.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:04 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Have at it. I would not support such a governmental take over of our freedoms of speech. I don't consider any of those to be utilities, since everyone is there optionally, and can live a normal life without them. As opposed to water and electricity.

They are media, information, naturally biased. User beware.
Your wired telephone, a utility with your transmitted content protected under the Constitutional free speech amendment, is an elective utility. You don't have to purchase a telephone contract. Telephone is optional, and you can live a normal life without a telephone.

Have you looked outside lately, it's 2019?

Communication fashion has evolved away from simple telephones (wired or wireless).
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:07 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Jackie N View Post
You can live with well water and solar power, so municipal supplies are optional.

It's not about necessity. It's about how the utility is used in modern life. Is the internet necessary? Are social media accounts necessary? For millions of people in thousands of industries, the answer to both questions is definitely YES. The fact of the matter remains that these services are monopolies, and optional or not, a massive number of Americans get their information there.

It's not so black and white
Sure, one can always go camping. But modern life much more typically demands, water and electricity.

I would say that some communications are utilities. They vary with modern life. A computer program like Facebook does not meet my criteria for a utility, but of course that is just my opinion. If Facebook was somehow linked to the internet, which I would consider as a utility, so that one had no choice but to go through Facebook to access the internet, that to me would be close enough to a monopoly to be concerned.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
You are stuck in an obsolete paradigm.

ATT, Bell Telephone, (etc.), were never government agencies, or entities, and they were prohibited from monitoring calls and censuring call content. The computing power of the era was not capable of detecting keywords to flag active censure and suppression like today, but switchboard operators could listen in to calls and were prohibited from disclosing or censuring intercepted call content.

FB/Instagram/Messenger and Google message applications, or FaceTime (Apple) and Skype (Microsoft), are all evolved mediums of telecommunication that much of the public now depends upon for necessary and customary communication, much like wired telephones of past decades. While these applications began as novelty social media platforms, people now use them as communication utilities just like we used telephones fifty years ago.

I don't expect older people to use these applications as communication mediums like young adults do, but I also caution that you need to recognize they are now used for much more than sharing photos of grandchildren.
Sure, regulations and laws. I just don't see Facebook as a utility. I see the internet as a utility. These are optional and elective programs/applications.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
Your wired telephone, a utility with your transmitted content protected under the Constitutional free speech amendment, is an elective utility. You don't have to purchase a telephone contract. Telephone is optional, and you can live a normal life without a telephone.

Have you looked outside lately, it's 2019?

Communication fashion has evolved away from simple telephones (wired or wireless).
And you're still using a wired connection?

lol
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:15 PM
  #37  
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I good with Freedom of speech with two conditions.

It is equally applied to all. The dems are always trying to limit free speech.

Two, there can be economic consequences for being an idiot and running your mouth.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:34 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
With the recent and more aggressive stance by Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram on censoring content based on their political ideology of what is "hate speech", it's time to face this issue head on, and that is exactly what President Trump and Conservatives appear to be doing.

The "free press" our founding fathers believed in was far different than the "free press" we have today. Now, these entities, from the NYT, Washington Post, CNN, MSLSD, and others are nothing more than the propaganda arms of giant conglomerates. There is no "FREE SPEECH" with the exception of the internet and now that is under direct assault.

It's time to legislate that Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or any other online form of information source that is NOT 100% subscription based and funded, is a NOT a private held entity, and can deny access to anybody or group based upon their opinions.

As much as I detest Louis Farrakhan, he should NEVER be banned or censored for what he says, nor should anybody else.

It's time to strip away these groups ability to censor by claiming they have a right since they are not the "press". If liberals can claim our founders never foresaw the weapons of today when they wrote the 2nd Amendment, then Conservatives need to step up and claim the same about the internet and access to information.
Orwell warned us about a time when the Government would decree what is ThoughtCrime and what is the appropriate NewSpeak for the unwashed masses. It is now.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:35 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by jashmore1234 View Post
I good with Freedom of speech with two conditions.

It is equally applied to all. The dems are always trying to limit free speech.

Two, there can be economic consequences for being an idiot and running your mouth.
Taking a knee certainly has economic consequences.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:43 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Sure, regulations and laws. I just don't see Facebook as a utility. I see the internet as a utility. These are optional and elective programs/applications.
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
And you're still using a wired connection?

lol
You see life through a 1970's lens of social utility.

Is telephone use content regulated from censure by the carrier, wired or cell phone content (yes)?

I have not had a wired phone for over a decade, and I dropped it because I never used it to make calls. Social norms for communication have evolved beyond that narrowly defined and protected usage limited to a landline (physical wiretap required) telephone.

My kids have cell phones, and have not placed a call recorded on our billing invoices for years. My kid's exclusively use these messaging applications. The kid's even skirt parents blocking their cell phone use, by using these messaging applications over WiFi (internet). These apps can also be configured to port the app voice communication to a traditional voice telephone number (for a fee or subscription).

Is your personal communications transmitted over internet 1st amendment protected content: voice, email, skype, medical records, etc.(yes)?
Is VOIP (voice over internet protocol) communications using a traditional telephone carrier 1st amendment protected content (Verizon, ATT, Sprint,etc. --- yes)?
Are these communications 1st amendment protected because the software and carrier medium are wires or internet, or because of who owns the application software and servers, or is it 1st amendment protected because of the carried content?

Tell me again, in our world with modern technology, why is Facebook VOIP & email/message services, and similar communication service traffic, is subject to arbitrary censure and not 1st amendment protected content?
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