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Not Good News Worldwide Trade In Dumpster

 
Old 05-15-2019, 04:12 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
Trump does impulsive and rash things and there are always folks coming out to explain how it was the genius move that only Trump could think about. Where are all business execs coming out to sing his praises? Most in NYC wouldn’t bother with him because he was shady, unprincipled and generally FOS. How are Trump’s casinos? The only thing we really know about Trump’s success is what he tells us and what we uncover after the fact. Too many simply have bought the soured white cow and and convince themselves that they really prefer sour milk and that sour milk is the normal taste and that anyone who thinks differently must be drunk off the milk from the black cow. Sorry, I didn’t discover Trump in 2016 after seeing him fake fire celebrities for a few years. He has been a douche for years - even when he was a Clinton-loving, baby-killing libtard . None of us would for one minute allow our kids to act as he does and yet will defend his incompetence as President.
Who did you support in 2016?
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:18 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
Why would “he get most of what he wants”? Have the negotiations been going so well? I can understand wanting to provide shade for the real damage Trump’s trade tactics (we don’t really have a coherent trade policy) are having on American workers (like farmers who are currently being bribed with a $15B welfare bailout) but saying “we’re gonna win” is not the same as winning. Trump has little experience negotiating with real adversaries who won’t respond to charm/bully tactics. They work when you hold the cards and at the end of the day everybody goes home rich. The Chinese are not some contractor in NYC willing to take 50% of what Trump promised rather than nothing or being sued. There are very few rooms where Trump is the smartest guy in it despite what he and his syncophantic enablers tell him. Manufacturing coming back from China, not really. Cheap labor is still cheap labor. We need new ideas so that we can transition to the type of manufacturing consistent with our stage of industrialization. Trump is and has been a carnival barker with little vision beyond convincing folks that the future is found in the past. He doesn’t know what to do because he is as smart as the people that believe what he says. He is a glorified real estate agent and flimflam artist since way back. Meanwhile, sane countries are lapping us and eating our slice of the modern manufacturing pie. Germany is our model, not China. Not to worry, if it looks bad, Trump will just say we won (like we’re building a wall), tweet victory and there will be MAGA kool-aid for everyone. #libtard, #butthurt

So many words to say so little.

Let me edit out the butthurt (and comment):


Why would “he get most of what he wants”? Have the negotiations been going so well? (as well as expected, because the China was never expected to roll over on the priority Intellectual Property concern without pain and multiple negotiation sessions)

I can understand wanting to provide shade for the real damage Trump’s trade tactics are having on American workers, like farmers with a $15B bailout. (Do you approve of Trump's long game strategy, or not?)

Manufacturing coming back from China, not really. Cheap labor is still cheap labor. (China is no longer a cheap labor workforce)

We need new ideas so that we can transition to the type of manufacturing consistent with our stage of industrialization. (what makes you think US manufacturing will not incorporate cost competitive robotics and modern technology as we ramp up modern domestic industrialization?)

Meanwhile, sane countries are lapping us and eating our slice of the modern manufacturing pie. Germany is our model, not China. (Germany has employed high import tariffs, higher than the current Trump imposed 25% tariff on select China goods, for decades. Trump, by applying tariffs, is following the German economic model. Are you advocating that we raise our tariffs on China goods to 40%-150% like Germany?)

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Old 05-15-2019, 05:57 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
So many words to say so little.

Let me edit out the butthurt (and comment):


Why would “he get most of what he wants”? Have the negotiations been going so well? (as well as expected, because the China was never expected to roll over on the priority Intellectual Property concern without pain and multiple negotiation sessions)

I can understand wanting to provide shade for the real damage Trump’s trade tactics are having on American workers, like farmers with a $15B bailout. (Do you approve of Trump's long game strategy, or not?)

Manufacturing coming back from China, not really. Cheap labor is still cheap labor. (China is no longer a cheap labor workforce)

We need new ideas so that we can transition to the type of manufacturing consistent with our stage of industrialization. (what makes you think US manufacturing will not incorporate cost competitive robotics and modern technology as we ramp up modern domestic industrialization?)

Meanwhile, sane countries are lapping us and eating our slice of the modern manufacturing pie. Germany is our model, not China. (Germany has employed high import tariffs, higher than the current Trump imposed 25% tariff on select China goods, for decades. Trump, by applying tariffs, is following the German economic model. Are you advocating that we raise our tariffs on China goods to 40%-150% like Germany?)

Cost-competitive robots? There is little doubt that advanced manufacturing which the US, Germany and many other countries are starting to seriously utilize is just the beginning. More robots are coming. I've thought for a while that the good news for the US is that with continuing advances in automation, the US can again be competitive in all forms of manufacturing. The bad news is that there won't be many workers. At least the profits will stay at home. I see no way around this and technology won't create as many jobs as the number of people it will displace.

I have two concerns with China and our import/export balance is not on the list. The first is theft of IP in its various forms, including technology sharing. Tech sharing and the abuse of patents and high tech are, in my mind, the most dangerous because they help the Chinese with what I see as the greatest danger. The second, and more concerning item is the Made in China 2025 initiative. I suspect you know what I am talking about. With a hugely expanding middle class that dwarfs the entire US population, China is looking to reach self sufficiency as well as becoming a manufacturing superpower in a bunch of high tech fields that could put the US and everyone else in the world on its knees. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10964.pdf

I believe that the US should treat Made in China 2025 as an existential threat and implement methods of countering it the way we did in WWII with a Manhattan-type project regardless of the cost.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:22 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
Why would “he get most of what he wants”? Have the negotiations been going so well? I can understand wanting to provide shade for the real damage Trump’s trade tactics (we don’t really have a coherent trade policy) are having on American workers (like farmers who are currently being bribed with a $15B welfare bailout) but saying “we’re gonna win” is not the same as winning. Trump has little experience negotiating with real adversaries who won’t respond to charm/bully tactics. They work when you hold the cards and at the end of the day everybody goes home rich. The Chinese are not some contractor in NYC willing to take 50% of what Trump promised rather than nothing or being sued. There are very few rooms where Trump is the smartest guy in it despite what he and his syncophantic enablers tell him. Manufacturing coming back from China, not really. Cheap labor is still cheap labor. We need new ideas so that we can transition to the type of manufacturing consistent with our stage of industrialization. Trump is and has been a carnival barker with little vision beyond convincing folks that the future is found in the past. He doesn’t know what to do because he is as smart as the people that believe what he says. He is a glorified real estate agent and flimflam artist since way back. Meanwhile, sane countries are lapping us and eating our slice of the modern manufacturing pie. Germany is our model, not China. Not to worry, if it looks bad, Trump will just say we won (like we’re building a wall), tweet victory and there will be MAGA kool-aid for everyone. #libtard, #butthurt
Boy your head must hurt from Donald running around in it. LOL
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:43 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by larry00 View Post
Even though our Manufacturing Base has been increasing the worlds has been going south which will eventually affect us .
The hand on the Ship Of State [ Trump ] Vows to maintain course and speed in regards to China but like the Shutdown over the Border which hurt some folks I believe he will accept a deal that gets most of what he wants .
The protection of copy rights seems to be the biggest sticking point .
Guess we better pray for an end sooner than later .
Upside is we can manufacture our own widgets , China better find a quick solution too .

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ression-levels

it's said that you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs; well, a few things here were broke or needed to be before we can gets things on the right track again . . .
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:51 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by vette6799 View Post
Cost-competitive robots? There is little doubt that advanced manufacturing which the US, Germany and many other countries are starting to seriously utilize is just the beginning. More robots are coming. I've thought for a while that the good news for the US is that with continuing advances in automation, the US can again be competitive in all forms of manufacturing. The bad news is that there won't be many workers. At least the profits will stay at home. I see no way around this and technology won't create as many jobs as the number of people it will displace.

I have two concerns with China and our import/export balance is not on the list. The first is theft of IP in its various forms, including technology sharing. Tech sharing and the abuse of patents and high tech are, in my mind, the most dangerous because they help the Chinese with what I see as the greatest danger. The second, and more concerning item is the Made in China 2025 initiative. I suspect you know what I am talking about. With a hugely expanding middle class that dwarfs the entire US population, China is looking to reach self sufficiency as well as becoming a manufacturing superpower in a bunch of high tech fields that could put the US and everyone else in the world on its knees. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10964.pdf

I believe that the US should treat Made in China 2025 as an existential threat and implement methods of countering it the way we did in WWII with a Manhattan-type project regardless of the cost.

I agree with most of what you state.

Robots and automation have already displaced workers. China is automating and displacing workers too, and we must stay ahead of China and the technology savings.

When I was designing and installing building management systems the customers would cut the resulting unnecessary workforce (no need for a body to witness conditions when I can pull the environment and diagnostics up on a screen or cell phone). In almost all financial qualifications we were able to account for labor savings in the future maintenance projections to justify the initial cost and loan financing. When I designed and installed environment controls for an optics company they were finally able to implement automation that reduced their labor force from three 400 person shifts in 24 hours, to three twenty person shifts, and they benefited from less waste. I enjoyed my similar work with chip design and fabrication and pharma companies, where they explored beyond robots and considered the entire optimized environment and space conditions. If we don't embrace the same automation and environmental controls, and try to make up the investment difference with cheap labor and allowable waste, we are fooling ourselves into poverty.

IP theft is the critical issue, and why pain on the domestic economic front is worth the future victory of an enforceable global IP Treaty.

China needs the 2025 initiative achievement to elevate their quality reputation into first world status, to demand the first world product profits similar to that of Germany or USA products. That quality reputation threshold however is constantly changing, and the US is carried along, along with China, while individual niche product leaders like South Korea, Japan, and Germany push the horizon. The closest the US has to a 2025 Initiative is a MAGA slogan (a start, if we had a unified bipartisan Congress to support an initiative). We cannot continue bickering in Congress, and be left behind.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:05 PM
  #27  
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:07 PM
  #28  
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:19 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by oemtech View Post
We should have done this 20 or 30 years ago and we wouldn't be in this mess. Might even be able to buy Made In the USA logo'd stuff.
If you ever go into a thrift shop that has stuff in it from the late 40s-60s, everything will say "Made In USA". Everything no matter how small or insignificant.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:35 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 63 340HP View Post
I agree with most of what you state.

Robots and automation have already displaced workers. China is automating and displacing workers too, and we must stay ahead of China and the technology savings.

When I was designing and installing building management systems the customers would cut the resulting unnecessary workforce (no need for a body to witness conditions when I can pull the environment and diagnostics up on a screen or cell phone). In almost all financial qualifications we were able to account for labor savings in the future maintenance projections to justify the initial cost and loan financing. When I designed and installed environment controls for an optics company they were finally able to implement automation that reduced their labor force from three 400 person shifts in 24 hours, to three twenty person shifts, and they benefited from less waste. I enjoyed my similar work with chip design and fabrication and pharma companies, where they explored beyond robots and considered the entire optimized environment and space conditions. If we don't embrace the same automation and environmental controls, and try to make up the investment difference with cheap labor and allowable waste, we are fooling ourselves into poverty.

IP theft is the critical issue, and why pain on the domestic economic front is worth the future victory of an enforceable global IP Treaty.

China needs the 2025 initiative achievement to elevate their quality reputation into first world status, to demand the first world product profits similar to that of Germany or USA products. That quality reputation threshold however is constantly changing, and the US is carried along, along with China, while individual niche product leaders like South Korea, Japan, and Germany push the horizon. The closest the US has to a 2025 Initiative is a MAGA slogan (a start, if we had a unified bipartisan Congress to support an initiative). We cannot continue bickering in Congress, and be left behind.
One salient point about China's interest in becoming a technology superpower is because it's leadership believes that if the country fails to do so, it will have limited growth. This concept would seem to be quite valid since the growth of the middle class creates upward wage pressure that makes production of inexpensive, labor intensive goods problematic.

IP theft is a killer component that greatly reduces China's need to spend significant R&D dollars as well as moving up its timetable.

I am very concerned that by the time the US wakes up, and 2025 is coming quickly, it will be too late. We have the resources but, as you stated, bipartisan support is essential.

Ultimately, when we achieve artificial super intelligence we will have all the resources we need, and each of us gets a personal holodeck.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:42 PM
  #31  
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This idiot at Berkshire Hathaway buys transportation companies because there is no future in it. google that.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:54 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
Trump does impulsive and rash things and there are always folks coming out to explain how it was the genius move that only Trump could think about. Where are all business execs coming out to sing his praises? Most in NYC wouldn’t bother with him because he was shady, unprincipled and generally FOS. How are Trump’s casinos? The only thing we really know about Trump’s success is what he tells us and what we uncover after the fact. Too many simply have bought the soured white cow and and convince themselves that they really prefer sour milk and that sour milk is the normal taste and that anyone who thinks differently must be drunk off the milk from the black cow. Sorry, I didn’t discover Trump in 2016 after seeing him fake fire celebrities for a few years. He has been a douche for years - even when he was a Clinton-loving, baby-killing libtard . None of us would for one minute allow our kids to act as he does and yet will defend his incompetence as President.
Trump is so shady everyone wanted to do business with him in the 80's and the 90's. Trump's so shady he's worth billions. Trump's so shady he has properties all over the globe.

https://www.trump.com/

https://www.trump.com/hotels


As far as the Casino's they almost all went belly up in Atlantic City back in the day.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cu...y-revel-casino

Trump's financials
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...Annual278.html


And Trump is so incompetent we have between 3-4% GDP, the lowest unemployment rates we have ever seen. We have wage growth and the best economy we have ever had. NATO bellied up to 100 billion, we had a tax cut that benefited everyone.

As I said you don't know what you are talking about, you are a know nothing blow hard.

Last edited by Mr turbo rotary; 05-15-2019 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:37 PM
  #33  
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Brunello,
I’m from New York, before Trump ran for President he was well liked by all groups, and a respected businessman. It’s only since he ran that he became vilified by the left.
Also as Mr Turbo Rotary has proved, almost all the Atlantic City casinos have had issues these last few years. Atlantic City had a monopoly on legal gambling since 1978, everyone from NY, Conn, NJ and Philadelphia, 25 million folks flocked to those casinos. Then Pennsylvania, Connecticut and New York opened a few Indian casinos of their own and you could hear the sucking sound of money leaving AC.....if your going to post Anti-Trump talking points from the DNC have some facts to back up your BS. Lefties are all like scared ignorant .children..

Last edited by chiefttp; 05-15-2019 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:04 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by JustinStrife View Post
Who did you support in 2016?
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