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Colorado Christian Persecution Continues

 
Old 06-12-2019, 06:03 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by shane p View Post
Wonder why one would start a business of baking cakes then bitch about baking a cake. Confused dude should have started a different business venture.
Why would one insist on buying a custom made cake from someone that doesn't want to make it due to a moral objection when there are plenty of other bakers that have no objection?
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:09 PM
  #42  
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The only thing that is different is the times. A Muslim bakeshop would be just as wrong even though your evidence is simply a random post here. Discriminating against people because of who they are in the public arena is wrong and has been wrong since forever. Private organizations serving individuals in places of private accommodation are different though often equally wrong. Some Christians want to put themselves in a box and then complain about being in a box. Does this “Christian bakeshop” only serve Christians? So describing ensures inherent problems when values clash. Don’t pretend that Christianity is your excuse for engaging in a cultural war. God is not your co-conspirator in segregating those made in his image. They’re not Christian bigots, they just bigots.


Originally Posted by colo63sw View Post
Making quite the leap with that. There is nothing decent about 'no jews need apply'. There is a difference between endorsing and not wanting to participate. And in case you are mistaken, this is a war on Christianity, check the post in this thread about a muslim bake shop, no one is making a federal case about that.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:14 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by ZumZum View Post
Why would one insist on buying a custom made cake from someone that doesn't want to make it due to a moral objection when there are plenty of other bakers that have no objection?

I wouldnt want to eat a cake that was made by someone that objected to my lifestyle but keep in mind some of these dudes suck other dudes you know whats so I doubt they really care if the baker puts in a little extra something in the cake.

Last edited by shane p; 06-12-2019 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:34 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
The only thing that is different is the times. A Muslim bakeshop would be just as wrong even though your evidence is simply a random post here. Discriminating against people because of who they are in the public arena is wrong and has been wrong since forever. Private organizations serving individuals in places of private accommodation are different though often equally wrong. Some Christians want to put themselves in a box and then complain about being in a box. Does this “Christian bakeshop” only serve Christians? So describing ensures inherent problems when values clash. Don’t pretend that Christianity is your excuse for engaging in a cultural war. God is not your co-conspirator in segregating those made in his image. They’re not Christian bigots, they just bigots.
Label me a bigot, I don't use religion in my arguments. One that believes gay couples should not be sold/given babies so that they will feel more normal.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:43 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by LarsAtTheBeach View Post
Someone needs to find a Muslim bake shop and demand a gay wedding cake.
Or a black bake shop and demand a KKK cake. Or maybe a Jewish bake shop and demand a **** cake.
Or they just need more cake shops in Colorado. It seems like there's only one.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:45 PM
  #46  
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There are a couple issues in play here.

First, should the state be forcing people to serve certain protected classes? I am not sure about that. I think that it was necessary during the '60s when African Americans couldn't find a hotel or a restaurant to serve them in many areas. But today, that's not a real problem for anyone, even someone seeking a wedding cake. I think these laws no longer protect meaningful rights, but instead function as "gotcha" opportunities.

Second, given that the law as it sits today does allow the state to force such service, there are still limits on that, such as for forced speech. Here the question is, "Is the baker really engaged in speech when making these cakes?" I think he is. He has said he'll sell an off-the-shelf cake to gays, but he won't make a special one that supports their lifestyle. I agree that he is engaged in expressive conduct when making a special cake.

There's an interesting twist to this particular case. The baker says that the plaintiff requested a cake with a pink interior and blue frosting to celebrate her gender change. He says he refused the order. The plaintiff says that the baker accepted the order when asked for a blue/pink cake, but refused it only after he was told it was for a gender change. The plaintiff thinks that is significant. I don't.

What if I go to the baker and ask him to bake a cake with a design containing Chinese symbols on it? He'd probably say "sure." But then if I told him the symbols mean, "I love Satan" he'd probably refuse. I think that's reasonable. The fact that the actual meaning of what he was being asked to do mattered to him seems reasonable to me.

And, mind you, I support gay rights, including same-sex marriage. I'd happily bake the cake. But I respect the baker's rights, too. I have no doubt there are many bakers who will serve the plaintiff here. She doesn't need to force the baker into doing something he opposes. That helps no one.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:48 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Duck916 View Post
There are a couple issues in play here.

First, should the state be forcing people to serve certain protected classes? I am not sure about that. I think that it was necessary during the '60s when African Americans couldn't find a hotel or a restaurant to serve them in many areas. But today, that's not a real problem for anyone, even someone seeking a wedding cake. I think these laws no longer protect meaningful rights, but instead function as "gotcha" opportunities.

Second, given that the law as it sits today does allow the state to force such service, there are still limits on that, such as for forced speech. Here the question is, "Is the baker really engaged in speech when making these cakes?" I think he is. He has said he'll sell an off-the-shelf cake to gays, but he won't make a special one that supports their lifestyle. I agree that he is engaged in expressive conduct when making a special cake.

There's an interesting twist to this particular case. The baker says that the plaintiff requested a cake with a pink interior and blue frosting to celebrate her gender change. He says he refused the order. The plaintiff says that the baker accepted the order when asked for a blue/pink cake, but refused it only after he was told it was for a gender change. The plaintiff thinks that is significant. I don't.

What if I go to the baker and ask him to bake a cake with a design containing Chinese symbols on it? He'd probably say "sure." But then if I told him the symbols mean, "I love Satan" he'd probably refuse. I think that's reasonable. The fact that the actual meaning of what he was being asked to do mattered to him seems reasonable to me.

And, mind you, I support gay rights, including same-sex marriage. I'd happily bake the cake. But I respect the baker's rights, too. I have no doubt there are many bakers who will serve the plaintiff here. She doesn't need to force the baker into doing something he opposes. That helps no one.
Democrats were brutal to blacks back then....seems it’s the Christians turn for the democrat showers...
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:51 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by LarsAtTheBeach View Post
Someone needs to find a Muslim bake shop and demand a gay wedding cake.
Or a black bake shop and demand a KKK cake. Or maybe a Jewish bake shop and demand a **** cake.

good one
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:05 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by blufinz52 View Post
Nothing worse than an intolerant, holier-than-thou Christian.
Then you should make a principled stand and not buy any cakes from the guy.

(One person's intolerance is another person's principled stand....)
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:10 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by SilverC1 View Post
Then you should make a principled stand and not buy any cakes from the guy.

(One person's intolerance is another person's principled stand....)
I would definitely not buy a cake from the guy. I wouldn't make a fuss about it, I would just not give him my business. There are a few businesses that I don't patronize for different reasons...my money, my choice where to spend it.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:13 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by shane p View Post
Wonder why one would start a business of baking cakes then bitch about baking a cake. Confused dude should have started a different business venture.
No sir. It is you who is confused.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:14 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by TBIRD57 View Post
on the grounds of his Christian beliefs opens a pandora box of cases forever:
i'm a Catholic which says my church is the only one true church so no religious celebrating cakes
for heretical non-Catholics
No cake- Moslems because they are infidels
No anniversary cake for trump because he is divorced and commits adultery
No cake for veterans because they kill-thou shall not kill
the list can get endless
.....................
I suspect the only thing endless around here is your ignorance.

Prime example: The actual Commandment says Thou shalt not MURDER. It does not say Thou shalt not kill. Check the meaning on the original tablets.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:15 PM
  #53  
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Anyone who doesn’t recognize that this is activist driven and nothing else is an ignorant ****.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:23 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
Just sell ******* cakes. It’s abnormal to base your entire belief system on fairy tales too but that doesn’t get in the way of me buying a cake from you unless you are stupid enough to make that a sales condition. People used to just sell **** and keep their beliefs to themselves and that worked great. Making a cake for John and John doesn’t make you a party to sin because they’re gonna do what they do with or without your shitty Jesus cake. Just make regular cake.
People used to just keep their perversities to themselves, and that worked great.

And business owners never had to worry about getting sued if they declined to be a part of that perversity.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:35 PM
  #55  
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Liberals will continue to go after this guy, because that is what terrorists do.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:52 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by blufinz52 View Post
Nothing worse than an intolerant, holier-than-thou Christian.
Tell me about it.



Originally Posted by blufinz52 View Post
You mean Christian cake shop owners? No, violence isn't the answer....ever.
Tell me about it.



Originally Posted by ZumZum View Post
The baker is happy to do business with them. All he/she has to do is order a standard "Happy Birthday" cake off the shelf. Asking the baker to specially make a cake with a "Congratulations on having your dick cut off" message is literally being a ****.
Technically, the person is a TWIT...…..after the finally surgery is completed they would officially be a ****.



Originally Posted by TxLefty View Post
Just as an FYI, the correct translation is a prohibition against murder. Killing in battle is not considered to be murder.
You'd better double-check with God on that one.



Originally Posted by 69427 View Post
……….Prime example: The actual Commandment says Thou shalt not MURDER. It does not say Thou shalt not kill. Check the meaning on the original tablets.
They are stored in the Ark of the Covenant...to be (re)opened in the near future.
Do an in-depth word search on "Murder"....you would be surprised at the result.

Now....back to the original thread. The complaint against Jack Phillips, at best, seems half-baked to me.

Last edited by doorgunner; 06-12-2019 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:31 AM
  #57  
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Can the government force an atheist baker to create a custom cake with bible verses written on it?
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:36 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
It doesn’t violate your faith to bake a cake. That wasn’t one of the 10 Commandments. That’s just bullshit and a reason to discriminate. If you put your political or religious views front and center on a business that does not require it, you are asking for problems. I was seeking to buy some USA made shorts today and didn’t because they decided to politicize their website. I found another company making a more expensive product that I will buy from.

(BTW, company Xeylon or something like that. Owner had a MAGA hat. No way for me but a good source for some of you guys who also appreciate US made stuff.

STFU Noob..

How are you the overlord that gets to say what violates someone's faith?
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:33 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Brunello View Post
Just sell ******* cakes. It’s abnormal to base your entire belief system on fairy tales too but that doesn’t get in the way of me buying a cake from you unless you are stupid enough to make that a sales condition. People used to just sell **** and keep their beliefs to themselves and that worked great. Making a cake for John and John doesn’t make you a party to sin because they’re gonna do what they do with or without your shitty Jesus cake. Just make regular cake.
The baker did....so just what the **** is your point?
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:04 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by LarsAtTheBeach View Post
No sir. It is you who is confused.

I could be. Doesnt make much sense to me to open a business to the public offering a service then bitch about the people that comes in the door wanting your service then denying your service. Sounds like someone made a **** poor business choice.
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