how much do you weight:D

I never realized this occurred on the fast lists. :rofl:

Ok, some of you know the history behind that sarcastic remark, but here is my opinion on the subject since you asked Rob.


Now I have questioned myself on this opinion being that I am a shop owner, wondering if I'm being biased towards posting any times since I often drive others cars and every sponsor on this board pays a fair amount of money each month to advertise here so posting those times can possibly sway a potential customer/sale.

That has to weigh on my decision whether I want it too or not, but at the end of the day I still think this is the "CORVETTE forum", not the "owners of Corvettes forum", the car rules, not the owner.

The easy political way to keep everyone happy would be to simply have a separate section of cars driven by others or shop cars etc, and keep the main list as owner-drivers. It seems like such an easy answer to me? It's not like there will be a ton of entries added because of that, and it doesn't cost anything but a few key strokes.

Regardless of how it turns out though, if you chose to not have other drivers times posted please try and not do the following;

1, Not having set rules listed prior to removing an individual off the list, that just makes you look like your making them up as you see fit.

2, Do not go threw the persons posts and quote them saying they were not driving the car as if they were trying to be deceitful or something when there is no rules stating owner-driver only in the first place.

3, Some kind of a review board, that one will be tough, but if enough people are very confident that a particular racer/record is in question of it's honesty, then it should be up for discussion and reviewed, or put up for a popular vote amongst the forum members.



Points being that this is all for fun and this is a public forum, keep everyone happy, there are only negatives to gain if not, but nothing to lose if you do.


:cheers::cheers:

I like the idea of seperate Sections.

Pete,
You can drive mine but it's not an auto.:leaving:

Well, it's not rocket science to drag race an A4 that shifts itself......

:lol: Pete hasn't driven a car with a man pedal in years. But when he did, he was impressive. He was especially known for his 3-2 shift :rofl:

i agree with all points, but its really about the car what mods and who did them. that shop or owner gets recognition, the shop isn't building without the owners money so most builds are mutual between owner and builder or builders, even the owner builder. isn't it the easiest to just list the owner. the builder gets recognized in the posts from the happy owners, and if the owner doesn't belong to the forum or cant work a computer, doesn't have one. then the shop can ad the car to the list under there shop name, the driver is only important to guys whose cars didn't run so good and didn't know any good drivers, shop name and owners just the way tommy did it, if you remember correctly that was the rule or common practice for the Z06 fast list when it was on the C6 performance list before tommy told whoever do it yourself, wasn't that about ties and two digit time slips vs 3 digit and mph rules not the 3rd digit

The possible scenarios I see are as follow:

1- Individual owner of car and Individual driver of car are the same.
2- Individual owner of car and Individual driver of car are NOT the same. (Shop owner driver)
3- Individual owner of car and Individual driver of car are NOT the same. (Non Shop Owner Driver)

You need to first clarify what if any of this is allowed.

I strongly believe that a 6 speed car needs to have scenario (1) from above in order to be included in a Fast List.

Notwithstanding the fact that negotiating a successful 1/4 pass in these cars takes skill, a manually shifted 1/4 mile car is very much dependent on driver skill.

The automatic for me can go either to the driver using any car or a car using any driver scenario.

The six speed driver that does not own the car would go in the "non owner-driver category then, if that was utilized.
Forum members should be able to look up what the fastest six speed times have been either way on the main forum for Corvettes.
For instance if Kyle was not driving his car during the record breaking passes, is it any less impressive? Shouldn't the forum members be able to look up what a six speed has ran too even if the owner wasn't the one driving it? The forum is about the car, not the driver.

There are a handful of record passes that I can think of that should be recognized for the accomplishment that they are from multiple shops, but let everyone know there was a "hot shoe..." in the seat. If they do not run the same time as a more experienced driver then it's understandable to them. Or at least should be, but it showed what that combo/shop/driver can do.



Anyone building a car to a record holding level, whether that person can pilot it to the record themselves or not, are Corvette enthusiasts and probably wish they could do it themselves. If their car produced a record it's understandable that a shop would like to possibly yield a return on the investment made to the forums by posting it on the fast lists, and for non shop drivers then it's just human nature to want to be recognized for it in the little fish bowl you swim in, keep everyone happy. :lol:

I'm taking my head out of the sand ... and listening. :lol:

There have been some very good points brought-up, thank you everyone who has offered an opinion and keeping the discussion on track!

I keep thinking it's all about me and it's my forum - at times I forget to see others points of view.

I would like to hear more from shop owners - as I age my memory fades and I forgot that you pay to be on here...

I understand that whatever decision I make here with the list, isn't going to make everyone happy but collectively WE can 'give it a try' ... having this thread as a reason why the decision was made to update the reporting of C5 Corvette 1/4 mile times will help me justify any changes

thanks ...

:iagree: its about the car!!! everyone knew the devil package was an ecs package weather you drove or devil, it was always a possibility that eds car could go even faster with him driving at the weight of a hobbit:lol: or ranger an underweight jockey, i want to know what a cars possibilities are, i dont care who drove it, i know doug is a good driver, dave bush and alexv are good drivers and lighter then me by over 100lbs, i let them both drive mine a couple passes each, different days. my time was +0.10 better and its an automatic, i want to know the best et and 60 ft mph of the car and what mods work best i dont need to know the driver, just the owner to identify the car, not just some blue c6

I knew I was going to get a Cazziata. :D

I agree with everything you wrote except for the 6 speed car (owner = driver) for main "Fast List".

However, after reading your position, I will stipulate to a separate "non owner" list so the data is available for anyone to see.

As you know I came to John's defense when his time slip was voided last year (car in automatic trim).

These are all good points for Rob to digest and ultimately derive a set of rules.

.

one last point:crazy: im not on the c5 list so it wont bother me, but if you read the entire beginning of the c6 performance list you will see no mention as driver or owner can only drive his car, the list rules were decided by ranger quicksilver and others to guide so why didnt ranger bring this up then! you can draw your own conclusion:toetap::lol:

:thumbs::thumbs:

Being that we have sponsored this forum since 2000, thats over $50,000. Anyway to utilize or expand the possible return on that the better speaking just from a business perspective, but that's honestly not my main focus.
It's being able to look up what a Corvette ran quickly in one place should be able to be done, and the "fast list" is where it should be able to be found.

I bet if I wanted too, I could have stirred the pot with the management of this site enough to politely ask to have our times posted because of being a long time sponsor here. Ultimately from what I saw happen originally I bet the people running the lists would have stormed off taking their bat and ball with them, leaving the fast list to die off which was not what I was looking to do so I dropped it. As ridiculous as the entire thing was in the first place, the whole thing could have so easily of been avoided by posting up what these cars have ran.
(plus it would have been COW-ardly to run to the moderators crying) :leaving:

I really can not understand how you can separate the car from the driver ?? Can you give me some sort of "motorsport" example where the "car" gets the credit ??

Nascar ??
NHRA ??
F1 ??
WRC ??
X275 ??
DMV ??...lol
ETC....??

IMHO, the car is simply the "tool" used to show case the drivers skill and talent....and in some case it shows the talent of the owner/builder or most of the time, the shop who built it. But of course the opposite could also hold true, the driver validates the cars potential. How can one hold more weight than the other ??

Depending on which side of the fence your on, the "fast list" offers different angles.


Example 1) The average guy wanting to build a quick, proven combo can refer to the fast list as to the do's & don'ts. And which parts seem to work good together. Also this "average guy" can ask the driver/owner specific question about how to drive and build such a combination, thus validating the creditability of the opinion and information giving by the driver/owner.

Example 2) The "fast list" also gives the owner/driver get credit and recognition for time, money and hard work.

Now the shop scenario does pose a wrinkle......thats out of my realm.

.

All the cars should be on the same list in proper order

If owner didn't drive, print the driver's name in red

or print a stick to auto conversion, in red

Easy

Are you suggesting adding a list of other cars besides C5's (C5Z06 - C6's - C7's) if they would prefer to be on this quick list?

No, just C5

Need to show non owner's name or auto conversion (in Z06 section) in RED

one of the problems i have with driver name is not using Rob
Petyo (Hot_Wheels) but what about the unknown kid from Camden NJ who jumped into my car at Atco and ran like hell down the track ... who was that guy?

Never mind about the Z06, I see their not in this section anyway.

I do see a straight axle conversion car on the list, should that be noted in red?