How to destroy $3000 worth of machinery with a 10 cent washer.
 

I was chasing a small vacuum leak and removed the intake from the engine. I have the washers that came with the FAST under the manifold cap screws to help spread the load. When I took the manifold off I didn't notice but one of the washers came off the cap screw and rolled right into the number 7 hole. The valve must have been wide open because the damage is only in the cylinder. the bowls are clean.
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It was late, I was tired, and I've had this manifold on and off so many times I was sloppy. Below are some pics that will tell the story a little better.
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I am sussing the situation with Tony Mamo and as soon as we know more I'll post up on the direction I'm going to go with. I don't have much money right now, so I'm thinking Forged 347, or if Tony can do some magic on the heads maybe a forged 402. More will be revealed...
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The major damage to the head
http://i12.tinypic.com/4mck0o2.jpg
cylinder - crack on the right, gouge on the left, broken ring land in center
http://i12.tinypic.com/6cq14k4.jpg
closeup of broken ring land
http://i12.tinypic.com/6fhvk2f.jpg
custom valve reliefs
http://i14.tinypic.com/4yt5q1z.jpg
overall shot of the chamber - note the minor damage on the top quench pad
http://i18.tinypic.com/507q4qx.jpg
the sucker that made this all possible - with my help...
http://i19.tinypic.com/54jt5b6.jpg
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How's that for shooting yourself in the foot? I'll document this as I go along, the teardown, build-up, etc. Might as well fess up and publicize it..
Too bad, it was a sweet running motor... The next one will be :D

I feel for you brother. My problems are little ones compared to your's
Good luck :thumbs:
:cheers:
Sleeper

At least you can reuse the spark plug. ;)

Did the same thing on a Ls6 motor but it was a harden washer and the piston broke! :withstupid: Sorry i feel your pain!

Thanks, I need a laugh.:thumbs: Actually the other 7 are gtg too.:cheers:

Can that head be welded and remachined?

WOW. That sucks big time:ack:

Feel for ya, bro. Did the exact same thing years ago and dropped a tiny screw down a sparkplug hole on my Suzuki GS1150. Good luck with the rebuild. :thumbs:

You are living one of my phobias, I'm so paranoid about things falling into the head ports when I pull my intakes or carbs. Sorry dude, you will get it back together and will just be an unpleasant memory soon.

Dayum! :ack: Sorry to see that Roger. :(

Well, like the others said, you'll have her better than ever soon. :cheers:

Robert

Guys,

As I have already shared with Roger via PM, head is completely salvageable (seen MUCH worse)....

I will fix them and port them for even more flow....if Roger installs them back on a 347 he will be smiling....if he installs them on a stroker he will be smiling even more.

After the wallet heals I know he will say dropping that washer down the intake port is one of the best things he's done in awhile...LOL

When my stuff breaks, it always goes back together with more power than before. It really helps the healing process!!

The higher powers must have known it was time for more "modding"!

Roger, call me during the week so we can discuss some of your options but like I mentioned in my PM I already have a handle of the direction we need to go.

Best regards,
Tony

Wow, sorry to see that. Hope your new setup makes you :D

Oh, F***!

That sucks bro:ack: :thumbs: to you for admiting the mistake and sharing for others to not make that mistake. If we could just get everyone here to chip in a nickel, it would pay for most if not all of your repair costs:cheers:

:iagree: I feel for ya man......

:ack: :leaving:

Roger,
when you say the washer was under the manifold cap screw, you mean the washer was on top of the manifold under the scread head ?

Or under the manifold against the gasket?

I think you mean on top of the manifold.

I just got the FAST screws from thunder today.

I could just imagin your WTF expression when you hear the noise after all the work you did with that motor. sorry

Good luck with the repair :thumbs:

Chuck

So you are saying if we want more power, all we have to do is pop a washer in the intake, and call you in the morning? :lol:

Phil you are correct. The washer was under the cap of the bolt and on top of the boss. In between the bolt and the manifold. I think it was the rear driver's side. The one that you have to leave in until you remove the manifold because of the cowl. I found one on the garage floor in the morning. I never thought to check to see that the washer was on it. It was some noise too! My neigbors came running over to see what happened. Sounded like I ran over some wrenches with my lawn mower.

:rofl:
That's pretty funny. I will tell you that is how this is going to work. :cheers:

Here's what happened when a valve broke and dropped - instant and total destruction. (my old 68). Believe me, I know how you feel!


http://www.corvetteforum.net/c5/dave...piston6801.jpg

Man that sucks..

I'm not sure if you need them, but I have a set of stock 853 heads off of my 2000 C5. They have 29000 miles on them..

They are yours for free if they will get you on the road any sooner.

Wow...now THAT is generosity, good to see that!! :thumbs:

~Maverick

Wow man, I totally appreciate that! Thanks!:thumbs: This isn't my DD, so although I'd like to get back on the road asap I'm working on a plan to have 'Seabiscuit' make a strong comeback. I'm sending my heads back to Tony Mamo and I think I'm putting in a forged 402. I'm contacting him this week and we are going to go over some options. At the least he will fix them and then port them so they will be 'better than before'. Again thank you for the offer. It's sentiment like that that makes this forum great. :cool: :cheers:

Wow, I didn't grenade like that! I imagine the head on your car was trash along with the bottom end, that looks catastrophic. Unfortunately as you know it doesn't make much difference. A washer or a valve, the outcome is the same... new motor. The good news for me is that it looks like the head can be salvaged. I will be talking to Tony this week and talk some options. After he sees them we'll know where we'll be going.

My lesson learned: Don't trust that anyone's choice of high-performance part is correct unless you've researched it, yourself. With the cam my 327 had, the heads should've had triple springs. This fact slipped by the head machining shop and the result was a completely destroyed fuelie (2.02/1.60) head and an engine cylinder that needed to be fitted with a sleeve. I was lucky to find a machineable fuelie head, but after the block was sleeved, the engine as a whole, always ran hot. You're right about the potential of damage from almost any hard object; it doesn't take much!

Dave

I learned that lesson also when I told TSP (Texas Speed and Marine) that I wanted coated forged pistons stronger than Diamond pistons, and the guy sold me a shortblock with high-silicon 4030 alloy Mahle pistons. I didn't research the parts to find that out, the motor lasted 35mi, and it cost me $5K and two years of downtime (from being disgusted).

Good to see the 'washer mod' is working out. I'm also having a forged LS2 shortblock built, by Robert @ Advanced Dyno (Suisun City, CA).

I know exactly how you feel. I did the same thing years ago on a new Ford 5.0L engine. It sucked having to rebuild the engine after building it the first time. Good luck.

:thumbs:

:eek: DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: I feel your pain bro.. I really do.

:eek: :ack: That really sucks man.....Best of luck on your rebuild and getting more power on the next go around!:thumbs:

How long was the engine running before you shut it down? Must have been loud as hell.

OUCH!:ack: I feel your pain.:(

If misery loves company... Thanks for the empathy. With all the responses to this so far it really has helped to know that I'm not the only one. This forum has helped me in many ways more than I can tell. The only way I can give back is to give my best advice based on experience, and I will. As I said above, A bit of Tony's magic and a new LIngenfelter 403 should help ease the pain. Look for some more pictorials and snippets of the rebuild as I go along. I just stripped accesories off the front of the motor today. Tomorrow, I'm taking the steering out. This week I'm hoping BLACKTOP2000 has some time to help me get the hood off and the radiator out.

Thanks, and I'm looking forward to it.:thumbs:

It ran for probably 2 seconds TOTAL. It light made all kinds of noise and I shut it off as a reflex, but it was too late. By the time it was all over it probably hit 40-50 times. A regular washer would have probably just got spit out the exhaust, but these are beefy. Heh, it WAS loud, it sounded like I ran over a pile of wrenches with my lawnmower.

Thanks. That's a sweet C3.:thumbs: That pic in your sig looks like NJ. BTW, I have some friends in Spring Hill.

Any idea on build direction??

Chris


You can make it stronger...You have the capabilities!!!!

as i said in the other forum-good luck with new build bro:cheers:

Pretty much exact same thing happend to my TransAm during intake manifold replacement. Bolt or washer, 3in scar on the cylinder, cracked piston and broken rod. My only saving grace is that it happend at a GM dealer. New crate engine on them.

Good luck, but look on the bright side, you have an excuse to upgrade.

Nice work Roger.....:D :leaving:

Gary (GBvette) had the same thing happen... a spare head bolt somehow got into the intake manifold and was ingested on startup :( So a forged 402 went back in to compliment the procharger :D

This is a good reminder to myself of why I don't try to do my own mechanics...

This is scary my intake manifold has been off for about a month while my car sits for some parts. I do have rags covering the openings but it is exactly what I was worried about !!!!!!!

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. It certainly could have happened to any of us "do it yourselfers". I'm going to be tearing into my car this winter, and it just makes me think of how I need to be more focused on keeping track of parts.

Hope you get her fixed soon.

Actually, if you had, say 20,000 members send you a nickel. Then you would only have a thousand bucks. Now, if we each sent him a dollar, he could make some serious power and........:D
Sorry that had to happen. Hope you get her back together and running strong soon! :thumbs:

Thanks guys, I thought this thread died:lol: Anyway, I got the new motor from Lingenfelter and will be opening the crate tomorrow. I've been doing some 'other' upgrades while I had the motor bay open. I'll be posting on that tomorrow. Was going to do it yesterday, but I've had a ton of stuff to do at work. :flag:

OUCH! We have all done stuff like this. KUDOS for fessing up.:thumbs:
On to bigger, better and MORE POWER!:)