Let the rest of the world catch up
 

Has anyone else notices, that it took the rest of the world almost ten years to catch up to the corvettes (1997) and ls1 f-body realm in terms of power and 1/4 mile times? Im talking about the run of the mill, not exotics. It wasnt until the newer model evos and sti's ( i mean early 2000s). We see the new chargers, the srt8s, the mustangs (minus the gt500s, the roushes, and whatever else is out there). It seems just recently that cars are equipped with 300 hp. But has it hit anyone else, with even the 425 hp hemis and what not, that they dont even break into the 12s? I've seen that they give all these new "muscle cars" so much horsepower, yet they make them so rediculously heavy that the added hp doesnt have much effect. I would say however, that the sky redline is quite a fast car. anyone?

The C5 was a cutting edge car!

EVOs and STIs are far more sophisticated and superior cars to the LS1 Camaro, and when available in the states, always have been. America is about the only country that thinks 1/4 mile times measure a car's worth.

I thought 1/4 mile was everything....lol :D

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Sports cars are about handling, fun factor, looks, driving dynamics, and speed. Fast in the 1/4 mile does not make a good sports car.

Also most of the rest of the world pays $8+/gallon for fuel so big inch V8's are not really practical - 24mpg highway in Europe/Asia is bad gas mileage, not good!

Don't get me wrong, I love my '03 Z06, but you have to put it in perspective.

YellowZed

That's why the C5 is one of the best bangs for the buck out there. :thumbs:

I think he meant the ls1 cam/bird/vette as setting a benchmark for cars to work up to, as power.

:iagree: :thumbs:

Chuck

Thinking of a Camaro as a benchmark for the world's cars to strive for is why American cars are not taken seriously.

A half second in the quartermile doesn't mean a whole lot when the car runs straight lines through corners, door handle dragging on the ground as bits of the interior falls off.

that's where the corvette comes in- handling. America must build a few good cars to be able to be more powerful than lamborghini's and ferraris...

I think you miss his point, American cars need to be a bit more well rounded and do more things well rather than one thing very good.

Also, there's plenty of SRT8 cars in the 12's stock, you may be looking in the wrong places. Most of the "new" muscle cars are actually faster than the cars from the late 60's and early 70's. You can blame saftey and convenience for the extra weight; how much does a 8 way power adj heated leather seat weigh.

true but look at where american cars have been. cars back in the 50s and 60s didnt really have any regulations, and they were meant to just go, hence what brought about all the regulations we have today. Im not proud of where american cars are today, because they feel so cheap inside, and made cheaply. lol all i was tryin to say was it took the rest of the us (shouldnt have used world) to catch up to the technology and the power we saw in the ls1 cars. note that we didnt have the charger or challenger then, or the 300c or the dodge neon turbo

But you had 5.0L mustangs and GN kicking the crap out of a C4 until they put the LT1 in it so who really caught up?

Hell, the Toyota Camry is badder than most "muscle cars."

:bs: I've owned 4 Camaros (still own 2) and NONE of what you just wrote is true (unless you bought a lemon or something). And speaking of lemons... a friend of mine use to have a brand new 99' C5 that was a lemon: Exhaust fell off, steering collumn locked up and stranded him several times, and the heater core leaked into the interior, among other things.. So that can go for any car.

Fact of the matter is, that the F-Bodies were always the cheaper version of the Corvette in terms of cost. But they will always be known as the "best bang for the buck" in terms of performance. :cool:

c5s rule:thumbs:

Evo's and STi's are AWD rally cars...an offroad sport most Americans never much followed, much like pro soccer..

They could probably beat any other domestic car up and down a dirt fire road no doubt...but then the logical question arises...who cares?

The majority of people that buy these "technologically superior" AWD sh!tboxes want nothing more than to outrun an LSx car from a stoplight, and therein lies the beauty of it...they're buying the wrong tool for the job. :D

So yeah, for most of us, it is an America thing. You stand (drive) on your battleground, choose your weapon wisely.


:cheers:

one of the clowns (20 something) I work with brought his WRX in with a big hanging fart can on it and it sounds like my mtd tractor w/ a hole in it. Put that next to my 02 w/headers/ corsa ; open your ears then open your eyes :))))
Thats a compact (dont care how quick it is) a C5 is a car!
Sweet, sexy, sleek and quick.
When I get my GX53 this winter, cant wait to open my ears.............

Answer: Yes. :D

My experience with Camaros is limited to a testdrive years before I knew what "handling was" and a recent drive of a low mile LS1 Z28 automatic. Making that car go around corners was frightening. I'd say it felt slightly more likely to tilt over than my wife's Tundra.

I heard the SS is much better, but I haven't had the pleasure.

:rofl:
Hahahahaha, This is funny.

Such a wasteful argument. Why are we comparing apples to oranges? WRX, EVO, etc. are/were all built with a road race car in mind, nobody on the engineering team of either said their cars were made to compete with the fbodies/mustangs through the 1/4 mile. The lsX fbodies were built with straight line in mind, had the evo's and wrx's been around I'm sure gm's team would have said their build had nothing to do with competing with the road race import cars. Yet this debate still exists on forums all over. Would my camaro beat a wrx on a road course? Hell no, but wtf do i care? I'll beat his a$$ to the next stoplight though. Apples and oranges ppl...

As is the case with gas mileage too.

Light 4 bangers vs. heavy v8's. This is a no brainer... Does anyone actually buy a camaro in hopes of it getting 30+ mpg?

I enjoy my Vette for it's purposes. I enjoy my '96 Camaro for it's purposes. :thumbs:

Is it just me, or does this thread almost sound like a "upper-crust" version of the old "this car's better in a straight line" vs "this car's better in the twisties"?

For the F-body haters, the few Auto-X's I attended in Hawaii had some interesting showings. One of which was a Camaro that kept most of the crowd scratching it's head. With limited power modifications (cat-back and CAI), stock suspension, and some sticky tires, the LS1Camaro was tearing just about EVERYTHING up. Evo's, STi's, Vette's (and yes, some with good tires too). On one day in particular, it took the second best overall time, behind a full suspension prepped race 280Z.

Jon

The U.S. version of the Evo and STI are rated 22mpg and 23mpg highway. That isn't so hot, either.

you know its funny when you talk about handling. I didnt do much on my 99 ws6..I had bmr sway bars, tower bar, and some bilstein shocks. in my old area we had a bunch of twisty turn back roads. I found it hilarious when people in wrx's and the tuners couldnt keep up with a 4300lb "straight line" car.

Let me start this by saying, love the C5 and am currently in the market for one.
But! us Turbo Buick guys have been waiting for 20+yrs for the rest to catch up:cool:
My POS looking(compared to the C5) 86ttype,stock, 90k mi, runs 12.3's on 92oct untuned in street form. My GN with just a few bolt on's has run 11.7, and this was 7yrs ago:cool: Both cars get 23-25mpg highway.
Granted they don't handle or brake very well but with upgrades they could.
I was at the track last weekend with my 86 and watched C5-C6 Z06's struggle to stay with my POS. BTW I paid $5,500 for the car:D

This is true but keep in mind it took the corvette some time to catch up to the japanese sports cars in the early nineties

300zx twin turbo
Supra turbo
rx7 turbo
3000GT Vr-4
Dodge Stealth

:thumbs: That's what I'm talking about.... woulda had a GN if I kept looking... but settled for a C5. :lol: In my eyes, you just can't beat technology though. GM should have thrown a turbo on the LS1 then it would take 20 years for EVERYONE else to catch up! :cheers:

true but they also quick ceased on the grand national because it was faster than the vette. I guess i should have told everyone that i meant the 97s and up ls1 cars. :banghead:

I was thinking about this recently, just look at a used C5 compared to the upcoming 2010 Camaro. The V6 Camaro will be about $25k get 26 mpg highway, 300 hp and run about 14.5s in the 1/4 mile. The Camaro SS will run mid 13's and cost at least $30k. Not that impressive compared to a 1997 C5, that is not only faster, but is 700 lbs lighter and should get the same fuel economy as the V6 Camaro.

The Corvette even has a bigger trunk! You have to really want that backseat...

Used C5's are have got to be the best performance deal out there. There are so many low mileage examples still out there with really attractive pricing.

In my trips to the strip, I've never seen an SRT8 in the 12s, don't think they will do it stock, more like 13.4 s. Still, 1/4 is not the measure of a sports car and the camaro and SRT8s are not sports cars. Never driven an EVO or an STI so I am not going to trash them. But if I can beat rice at the track, that would make me smile. By the way, I got absolutely stomped by a beater looking LS1 Firebird at Kilkare. It ran 11.7 to my 12.7 which was not a good run for me with the mods I had at that time. The LS1 F-bodies are a good car for the 1/4 milers.

See'em all the time time here at the track, most do run in the low 13's but I've seen quite a few stock ones hit 12:90. Check the SRT8 boards.

I will own a GN someday, i love those frickin cars!! Turbo buicks were kings of the road in their day. :cheers:

Didn't me too offend anyone, I'll take your word on that.

:iagree: Performance is a compilation of several factors power, handling, traction, arodynamics ect (might I mention *gasp* reliablilty!). Most Americans have a 1/4 mile or NASCAR mindset so vehicles are marketed towards that uniquely American performace arena. The Grand National mentioned is a prime example of that...

Don't get me wrong straight line racing is as uniquely American as Hotdogs and Baseball and should be supported and kept alive and well!!!!! :flag:

Sometimes it's hard to compare apples to apples as we get pretty emotional about our personal cars, and rightly so!
'You stand (drive) on your battleground, choose your weapon wisely." An excellent statement!!!! :thumbs:

No, but the best part is when someone runs off at the mouth about gas mileage and it take 5 minutes to explain why the Vette gets better mileage than their Camry, is 3 times faster, 10 times better looking, etc.

haha I'm glad I have a vette. I drove from delaware to florida to texas to arizona not long ago, and I only stopped for fuel 4 times, filling up from a quarter tank. I love 6th gear :rofl:

Supra and RX7 had their advantages, but the 300zx and especially the 3000GT? I don't know about that.

The 3000GT vr-4 was/is capable of running 13.0-13.6 ( driver depending ) with $0 dollars spend on performance, this is dating back to 1991. With a downpipe, air filter and boost controler ( about 180 in parts ) it is capable of 12.6

Keep in mind these numbers are all while cutting 1.6-1.7s all day long ( track or street ). Whether you are a fan of AWD or not you can not deny that it CAN have its advantages