No GPS NAVIGATION for 2024
 

All Corvettes for 2024, based on the Order Guide, will use Google Maps cellular data navigation which will require a paid subscription. GPS free navigation is no longer available.

Obviously without GPS the navigation may not work at all.

Did you see a statement that there is not Satellite based GPS receiver/processor - or just that Navigation will be provided by Google Maps?

Its true that the Navigation software will be provided by Google Maps, and require a subscription for full functionality, but the car will continue to have a satellite based GPS receiver and processor, and the Google Maps software will be able to use the coordinates it provides for Navigation (based on what the owners manual says.)

According to the 2024 Owners Manual, the Navigation software in the car will be provided by Google Maps. Google maps relies on a subscription for "full functionality including including
availability of offline maps. With an applicable connected services plan, Google Maps can be used offline when driving through connectivity dead zones by auto-downloading offline maps prior to going offline." In order to do this, in a connectivity dead zone, it would need to rely on satellite based GPS.

From the 2023 Owners Manual:
Using the Navigation System
The Navigation software is provided by
Google Maps. The information provided in
this section is a general overview and is
subject to change. For the latest functional
information, see g.co/mapsincar.
Accept the Terms and Conditions to use.
Internet Connectivity
Google Maps relies on a subscription data
plan for full functionality, including
availability of offline maps. With an
applicable connected services plan, Google
Maps can be used offline when driving
through connectivity dead zones by
auto-downloading offline maps prior to
going offline.

The car will still have built-in GPS with location ability. I agree it is questionable whether or not the built-in Google Maps app that is replacing the current navigation system will still work without a paid subscription. It may work like Google Maps currently works on cell phones where you can only navigate if the maps are already downloaded or perhaps the built-it Google Maps app will work with your phone's hotspot like Alexa, The Weather Channel, etc. currendly does.

maybe I am saying the same thing here; i intend to get the front lift and if it is GPS ed to 1000 locations, I cannot imagine needing a subscription to use the lift…

Google Maps in a dead zone means GPS is not available. I discussed this extensively with the Corvette information people and they could not find any reference to GPS in the description for 2024.

Also I found that adding PDR to a 1lt which previously also included GPS navigation, now is $400 less with no mention of navigation because Google maps system is standard

The big question is do the 2024's still have Android Auto? If so then who needs the onboard navigation.

Yes both Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are standard

That would be a huge mistake if they put in Google Maps but it would only work if you had a cell connection. There are many areas out west where there is no cell reception. Even the most basic cell phone these days has a GPS receiver and Google Maps will work without cell reception as long as the maps have been downloaded beforehand.

GM making a huge mistake going just with Android Automotive only in their '24 and beyond BEVs. So damn short sighted and will no doubt cost GM sales. Just keep your fingers crossed the greedy bastards don't try the same thing for their ICE vehicles beginning in '25.

Connectivity dead zone refers to the cars built in 4G network connection, which is how the car will download the maps. Once downloaded, the navigation system can use them in a connectivity deadzone, because it will still see the satellites, it still has a GPS processor to provide coordinated, and it will be able to use the stored maps to provide navigation routing.

The GPS receiver, the GPS processor, and the Navigation Software are three different entities. You need a receiver to receive the satellite signals. You need a processor to determine the coodinates on the earth from those signals. Then you need Navigation Software and maps to find what road you are on with those coordinates, and to provide routing information using the maps.

The attached is also in the 2024 Owners Manual.

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This is why GM wants to ditch Carplay, they know that most of us just use our phones for Nav and they want to go back to the era of being able to charge large option charges or even better subscription fees.

Lets Just Put Out There to Avoid Rumors
 

Here are the relevant pages from the 2024 that describe how the Navigation will work. It does use satellite GPS and that is specifically discussed.


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2024 will support wireless android and apple carplay
 

Yes support of Wireless (and wired) Android or Apple Car Play is discussed extensively in the manual.


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The issue with Android Auto is that you need to be in an area where you can get both GPS AND Internet. I remember getting lost on Skyline Blvd (northern CA) a long time ago (abt 10 years) where it took me an hour to get to an area where I had both at the same time because the road is narrow and the trees cover the road pretty well. I finally found a clearing big enough that I got Google Maps working long enough to tell me how far off my initial route I was.
Ever since that time I like to have an autonomous navigation system that only requires GPS and does not depend on the Internet or cell signal to work, as a backup. I normally use Android Auto because it's up to date but I like the idea of having a potentially more reliable backup, even though I never had to rely on that since that experience. I understand I can download offline maps beforehand, but I rarely think about it until I need it...

I have not done it, but many folks on the forum report that with both Google Maps and Waze, they can download maps to their phone in advance, and then they will continue to navigate in cell deadzones. There are several places on the internet that discuss how to do that.

It looks like without a subscription, you just won't have maps at all, which means no navigation, which is a bummer.
On the other hand, if you pay the Google Map subscription, will the car use its own radio to download the maps, or will it still rely on the phone? i.e. can you have navigation without a phone?

The car will have GPS anyways because it's used by OnStar and probably other optional services, just like the 1LT which does not have navigation at all outside of Apple Carplay or Android Auto.
If you are using Carplay or Android Auto, I am not sure why I would want to pay another subscription to have Google Maps natively on the car.
This is clear as mud...

Yes, I have not done it either, but it is my understanding that you can do that. A friend of mine who did the Appalachian Trail did just that. He also has a Garmin Fenix 5X (with maps) as a backup. I have the same watch and while I don't want to use maps on it while driving (!) it is very useful as a backup.

The wording says a subscription is required for full Google Maps functionality which implies you will have some functionality without a subscription. It doesn't say where the data is stored but they don't mention needing a SD card or flash drive so it is probably stored internally. It doesn't say say how much data you can store but you will probably be able to download enough data for your local area and use it once your subscription is done although this may not be allowed. Hopefully they will allow you to use your phone's hotspot to download data but the wording says it will require connected services so that may not be possible. It will be interesting to find out how this plays out.

GPS is only available for vehicle positioning ie it can show where you are but can’t map a route. That’s why you must have a paid subscription and you must download the maps for the dead zone before you enter it.

With the old GPS navigation system you were never in a dead zone and maps were always available for routings. Also no subscription required.

This is not correct. A "dead zone" to google maps means that there is no data connection (e.g., cellular data) available, so Google can't download maps along your route in real time. Google maps, on any platform, relies on GPS satellite data for navigation.

There's no way the navigation system is going to work without GPS capability. What the required subscription is for is almost certainly the AT&T 4G data plan so the car can download maps in real time (rather than relying on the maps on the SD card in prior model years).

Since the car still has Android Auto and Apple CarPlay capability, I don't see any real advantage to paying GM for their data plan so you can use the same software without a phone. If you have a smartphone with a data plan, just use that. Or use the "HERE we Go" app, which lets you download maps for the entire US (and many other countries) to your phone and use it without a data plan.

I've found the built in Nav on the C8 to be pretty bad the few times I've tried to use it, and very limited in terms of how you can specify a destination and intermediate points, so I haven't used it since the first few months I had the car.

That might be true but it is hard to tell from the wording. I seem to remember setting a destination in Google Maps when I was out of cell service (but had downloaded the map) by using an address that was within the map database but I can't remember for sure. Definately couldn't use Google Asistant to do a voice search.

I've done it. If you set the options correctly, it will automatically download all the maps along a route you create in your phone, and then automatically delete them after some period of time (6 months, I think?). But doing it manually is easy enough, too.

The drawback is if you're in an area without a cellular connection and want to create a new route to somewhere. Google maps won't find your destination without a data connection. I keep the HERE We Go app on my phone with maps for any state I'm likely to drive through as a backup just in case I need to create a route and have no data connection. Had to use it once in the middle of West by God Virginia.

Exactly. They need to protect and increase those revenue streams.

I wonder how much $$ Google paid GM for this gem

As long as there is still Apple CarPlay, and I can use Waze, this is a non-issue for me.


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The C8 has navigation? Never used it almost 15k miles.

It's not that you were never in a dead zone, it's just that it did not matter because you did not need a data connection since maps were stored in the vehicle. The GPS signal is pretty much available everywhere (except tunnels, behind dense foliage and sometimes in urban canyons, or if you accidentally travel past the Arctic circle...)

"No GPS NAVIGATION for 2024"

The "information people" should have looked in the 2024 Owners Manual where it is mentioned.

Based on the your thread title (No GPS NAVIGATION for 2024) and your earlier posts it sounded like you were saying the car did not have GPS. Glad you now agree that the 2024 C8 has GPS supported Navigation, GPS refers to the GPS receiver and the processor that determines coordinates on the Earth. And the car still has a GPS and still has GPS supported Navigation. What has changed is the way the maps are acquired and stored, the software that supports the Navigation function, and the need for a subscription for "full functionality" including capability to download maps for navigation in a cell dead zone.

Again, and as pointed out by others, a dead zone refers to lost network connectivity. Which happens quite often in certain areas of the country. In those regions both your phone and your car loose their network connection (actually the car may have a little more sensitivity and in some cases will maintain its 4G connection while the phone does not). But I have experienced the case where both the phone and the car loose 4G connectivity. In those cell dead zones, the "old" on board Navigation system will continue to function because it has a satellite based GPS, sees the satellites, and uses the maps stored on the SD card. The new system will still be GPS based, but new Google Maps software downloads the maps in real time via the 4G network (In the car I beleive). There is no longer an SD card for maps mentioned anywhere in the 2024 owners manual. But from the description it will be possible for Google Maps to download maps in advance and then it will navigate in cell dead zones because it will still have GPS. We do not know exactly what level of functionality is provided if any without a subscription.

The 2024 Manual also describes the Front Lift system as using the GPS Navigation in the vehicle. It does not say anything about needing subscription to support that feature. While I do not know exactly how it works, technically it does not need a map to do what it does. It only needs to remember the GPS coordinates where the lift was actuated. Then when approaching those coordinates, it activates the lift. We already know that once a position is stored, it will actuated the lift when that point is approached in any direction.

It's worse than that. Their EVs will not have CarPlay -OR- Android Auto. They will have an "Android-based interface" which does not mirror your phone.

I understand how badly they want the clicks that the phones are getting, but I suspect they will reverse on this decision. It will just screen out too many buyers.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...s/70068140007/

Well, never once used the Nav on my C6. Wait, I never used it on my C7 either. Have used it on my CTS4 DD maybe 4 times in 40K miles. Never have utilized the Nav on my 911 in 13K miles... I guess I won't be missing much in the C8.
there's always the phone....

Google Maps and Waze use GPS via cell service. They access the database via cell service. Your phone does not have direct GPS mapping. Cell towers use GPS downlink/unlink and triangulation to phones via the 3 strongest cell tower signal strength. If you go into remote areas you will not have mapping. Here in AZ it is pretty common in rural areas. The 2023 GM navigation is true GPS in that it will work anywhere unless the GPS signal from satellite is blocked. I have used all in remote ares....you will lose Google Maps and Waze where cell service is weak. GM navigation keeps ticking.

They only navigate for 15-30 miles before they become unreliable. I know this from portions of Arkansas and West Texas where no cellular data is available, rendering anything but GPS unreliable. I have read through all the owners manual and Order Guide and it is ambiguous at best whether the GPS navigation is gone on MY 2024. I find it interesting that the Front Lift continues to use GPS (cellular data is not as exact on location as civilian GPS). I hope to have my car in about seven weeks and have a trip to Big Bend booked a few weeks later. We will see.

My old Galaxy S7 has a GPS chip, I imagine you'd have a hard time finding a new smart phone that doesn't have a GPS chip in it. While cell towers can be used to increase location accuracy the main location data comes from GPS. I as well as others have used Google Maps in locations where there is no cell reception but I had to download the map before I went out of cell service. I also use other mapping apps on my phone for off-roading, boating, and hiking in remote areas with no cell reception..

Cant see why this matters even a little bit. Just use cell phone navigation. IMO they shouldnt even be installing Nav in cars anymore. Its superfluous.


And if I'm somewhere that has zero cell signal, I'll just pull out my U.S. Atlas and do it the way I did for nearly 20 years before smartphones became ubiquitous. Can honestly say I've never used any car's built in Nav, not even once.

Yes. Cell phones have gps satellite receiver and use that for navigation. They augment that with cell towers and wifis if they see those. There are plenty of sources that confirm all of that.

One of the advantages of the current OEM navigation is the ability to see upcoming events in the HUD and DIC. I wonder if that will still be available with built-in Google Maps navigation. If so, I wonder if Google Maps will display that information in the HUD and DIC when running Google Maps from Android Auto/CarPlay. Google Maps has the ability to do this but it must be incorporated by the car manufacturer.

The bold part is completely incorrect. Every modern smartphone has a GPS receiver in it. I can use an app like HERE We Go to do completely offline navigation in an area with no cell signal at all.

Google Maps and Waze absolutely, 100% use GPS satellites for location. What they need the data connection for is to (a) search for locations so you can navigate to a business name or other point of interest and (b) to download the maps along your route. The reason you lose Google and Waze when there's no cell service is because your phone can't download the map data. But as has already been stated multiple times, you can download maps to your phone for offline use.

This still appears in the 2024 Owners Manual that I have. It uses the term "on-board" navigation. It could be an error - or not. The google maps based navigation is technically "on-board'.

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Bottom line; The current GPS navigation is always running and always available. The 2024 system will not always be available and won’t be available at all without a subscription. You will be better off using Apple CarPlay which can map your route through WiFi when cellular is dead.

Most think they are better off using the phone based navigation with the current on-board navigation system, especially those who download maps on their phone and then navigate in cell dead zones using the phone's built in satellite navigation receiver (as noted by several above). I use Waze on my 2021 and rarely use the on board navigation system. The current on-board navigation system is not all peaches and cream either. While you don't need a subscription you have to buy the updated maps or the maps become obsolete. The statement about the new system says it requires a subscription for "full functionality" and specifically mentions the capability to download maps for use in the cell dead zones. So we know a subscription is needed for that case with the 2024. It implies that some functionality may be available without a subscription. We'll have to see how it unfolds.

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BTW: Mary Ybarra, GM CEO, says that they plan for making significant revenue in future years with subscription services.

The 24s run an Android Operating system (vice android auto), and that is where the rub comes in. Google Maps (or Waze) will still be the same, but will likely require a data connection through OnStar. I've seen no clear posting that they are also including Android Auto, as that would be an easy way around the subscription model they are going to.

Again a non issue for anyone with a smart phone. On board nav systems in cars have been obsolete for years IMO.

This is not totally correct, you are mixing two things. Google maps and Waze use position data provided by the OS (Android). Android supports coarse position (determined from WiFi and cell towers by triangulation as you described) and fine position (using the GPS receiver, which also uses triangulation in a way). The apps can use either or let the OS give them the default. Position data only gives you coordinates, not the road you are on. To know the road you are on, you need maps. Google maps and Waze use maps downloaded in real time via the network connection (Internet via cell towers or WiFi). You can also download maps ahead of time, but that does not happen by default. A "conventional" navigation system like the one in my '23 2LT uses maps stored on the SD card.
Another confusion comes from the term "assisted" GPS. Assisted GPS is the use of network services (cell data) to speed up locking the GPS receiver to the satellites. Without assisted GPS, it takes a GPS receiver up to 10 minutes to acquire position (cold start) because the receiver has to acquire the ephemerid from the satellites themselves before it can compute its position and that takes a while. If the receiver gets the ephemerid (and coarse position) from the network, that saves a lot of time and you get precise position in seconds.

Good point about Onstar. GM wants to increase subscriptions so making the new navigation system dependent on Onstar WiFi makes more profit

As does every other auto manufacturer.

Smart phones do not work in a cellular dead zone so you must have WiFi. The current navigation system does not need WiFi and has no dead zones.

Apparently they cannot make money just selling cars and trucks.

Bolded part: technically true, but every modern GPS receiver powers up assuming your last location as your current location, which most of the time dramatically reduces how long it takes. I'm sure GM's built in system keeps track of where you are at all times, even if not using Nav, thereby eliminating that startup lag. Even my antique Garmin GPS unit only takes a few minutes to locate my position when powered up a new location.

Yes, that's one thing that bugs me to no end. Mary Barra announced some time ago that she wanted subscription services to create something like 35 billions annual revenue for GM in just a few years. Guess who is going to pay for that! I can see subscriptions for heated seats, remote start, LCD mirror, performance exhaust, on board entertainment and whatnot. Anything not absolutely required to get you from point a to point b is open unfortunately. I am glad I got a '23 and not a '24...

I’ve done a little more research to sort some of this out. This is based on what I found, with supporting clips attached. I would say it is subject to change – and there could be possible variations that are not mentioned in what I found.

On the Chevrolet Website for the 2024 model, the Chevrolet Infotainment 3 Plus system with 8-inch diagonal color touch-screen display and Google built-in is standard on all three trims (1,2,3LT). “ A select service plan is required”.

“Google built-in provides a personalized and seamless way to enhance your in-vehicle experience. Talk to Google for hands-free help in the car. Call or text friends, listen to music, set reminders or change the temperature in your vehicle using just your voice. Google Maps gets you where you need to go and what you need to know on your drive, including live traffic updates, nearby charging stations and Super Cruise™* compatible roads. And with Google Play, you can download some of your favorite music, podcasts, audiobooks and more.”

Google built-in includes Google Assistant, Google Maps, and Google Play. All three of these features appear in the 2024 Owner’s Manual. You do not need a Google account, but you will need a service plan to enable all the features. You can enable them with the On-Star Connected Vehicle Plan which is 24.99/month. Services that require a service plan ae Google Assistant, Google Maps, and some apps on Google Play require a service plan. Services that do not require a service plan are audio features (listening to AM/FM radio, streaming from your paired device), Android and Apple CarPlay, voice control using your connected phones compatible voice assistant, customizing your settings.

There is also a website mentioned in the Owners Manual that has more info about Google Map:

g.co/mapsincar

As I see it, the downside of this is the subscription at 24.99/month. The advantage is that the maps will always be up to date, no SD card is required, and no need to purchase an updated map every year, if you want current maps. It also retains the capability to function in cell dead zones because it downloads map for "off line" use. This is described in numerous places, such at the Owner's Manual, and website above. I'm not advocating it, just summarizing the features.

Edit: Another likely downside of the new system pointed out later by @Red Mist Rulz is that while the current SD card holds the entire US map, its not clear, and probably not likely that the new Google Maps system will be able to store all of that. There may be limit on how much can be downloaded in advance.





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Not totally accurate. As many have posted, your smart phone can download the maps along your planned route ahead of time, and can continue navigating even if you lose cellular. Where it becomes an issue is if you want to create a new route and don't have a cellular data connection.

And there are navigation apps for your phone which don't need a data connection at all.

I think we need more information to be sure of this. To function all the time in dead zones it would need to download maps for every possible location you might drive, and that's not how it works on a cell phone. It will download all the maps along the route you've programmed, and around your home and work areas. But if you're in a cell-free zone in West Virginia, and try to program a new route to somewhere else, those maps won't have been downloaded previously. I ran into this exact situation. I created a route from my home to a location in WVA, and it worked fine without cell coverage. But when I was in that dead zone, and tried to create a new route to go somewhere else in WVA that wasn't part of my original route, Google Maps couldn't do it. Fortunately I also have the HERE We Go app on my phone, which will work like a traditional GPS unit, completely standalone.

We still need to learn exactly what GM & Google mean by being able to download maps. HERE will let me download maps for every state in the US, so if I know I'm going to be driving to Texas and back I can download all the states I'm going to travel through, and maybe some other nearby states in case I change my mind. Will Google maps in the car allow that, or will it work like it does on the phone, which is much more limited.

The link you posted above seems to indicate it works like the phone:

The above is exactly how it works on my phone, and item 4 will only download a relatively small area of the country at a time.

Waze does not support off-line maps. If you're already navigating with it and you lose Internet, it will continue to function, but it won't resume if you interrupt nor will it allow you to add a new route without Internet. Google Maps on the other hand does support offline maps, although using that to start a route without Internet can be hit or miss (I've had it succeed with zero Internet and I've also had it fail to find a route).

Pretty much every decent cell phone in the last 5+ years has a GPS antenna. But I do agree having the on-board GPS was always a nice backup in case Google Maps fails in a zero signal area.

Here's my take...

All 2024 Corvettes will be equipped with the Onstar system. The OnStar system includes a GPS receiver and processor. I "believe" the data subscription that allows "full functionality" enables real-time information such as traffic conditions, detours, road construction, etc. Without a subscription, the 2024 Nav system will function just like the prior versions. JMO...

I added some stuff about how to activate Google built in and Google assistant to post 51.

I understand the point. If you go to the website listed in the manual, it discusses that in some detail. It supports both automatic downloading of maps for off-line use (if you leave it set that way), and it also supports manual downloading of maps. To me that sounds like if planning in advance one could download the regions of concern. As with the phone.

Edit: actually I missed your point. Right. The current SD card hold the entire US. The new Google system may not have sufficient room to do that. That is another downside of this.

That's not what is described on Google's site, unfortunately:

https://support.google.com/maps/topi...65&p=auto&rd=1

"Services that do not require a service plan are audio features (listening to AM/FM radio, streaming from your paired device), Android and Apple CarPlay, voice control using your connected phones compatible voice assistant, customizing your settings."
So it seems Carplay and Android Auto will still be supported and the most significant difference, the way I see it, is the loss of "GPS only with maps on SD card" that was standard with 2LT and 3LT packages.
I may be the only one b****ing about it :)

Its described here. Plus, forum members have already reported do so.

https://techcult.com/use-waze-and-google-maps-offline/

I understand that, and mentioned it in my comment. But as I also said, manual map downloading is very limited in the amount of area you can download at one time. Maybe in the car it will be larger, but for the phone app there's no way to download the map data for, say, everything east of the Mississippi. Or even the entire mid-atlantic. This is the largest area centered on Washington, DC I can download on my phone. Not going to help on a cross country trip unless you download new maps every day.

As I said, we need a lot more information from GM and Google to understand exactly how this will work.

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Go to this link:

https://support.google.com/maps/answ...d-offline-maps

Heres a clip about auto and manual download of maps and management of you rmaps. But there is lot more.

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Yes, I see the point. The current system with the SD card has the entire US. Its not clear that the new system would be able to download all of it. When I travel, I have often modified my plans and sometimes exactly in those regions with spotty cell coverage. I once encountered a dead end in the middle of nowhere because my onboard nav system (in my Ford) did not have a current map, and my cell phones could not create a route because I did not have a cell connection and did not have downloaded maps. I was able to navigate a way around with the onboard map, at least but had to avoid the dead end that was not in that map. The new system might not have supported me in that case.

Edit: I should mention, I carry these things called paper maps that I get from AAA. Stacks of them when on a long trip through nowhere. They did not have the dead end (closed road) I encountered in the middle of nowhere either, but they helped my plan a detour.

This is what I was talking about that it will continue to function while you're using it to navigate during a trip if you lose Internet. It specifically states: make sure you do not exit or close the application, i.e., do not wipe away the application from recent apps/app switcher. It is not an off-line maps function like Google Maps has.

The limit in the size of the area that can be downloaded is artificial and I suspect it is due to both a desire to control network traffic and possibly reserve the possibility of a pay-for service that goes beyond the limit of the free service. My Garmin Fenix 5X+ watch has built-in high definition maps for US and Canada and I could download other regions (entire continents) as needed. A watch! It has 15GB of flash memory (not a lot compared to most phones) and the maps only use a fraction of that since I also have GBs of music on it. Certainly we could do as well or better in a car.

You can download multiple off-line maps. When I was doing my 2300 mile road trip home from the museum, I downloaded multiple maps to insure I'd have Google Maps functionality along the entire route to be able to do lots of back roads. I typically keep half a doze off-line maps on my phone for common areas I go to so I don't have to worry about it. I do wish they would allow you to do a larger download, it's not like modern phones don't have plenty of space to just keep a downloaded copy of half or even the entire US.

That's the exact reason why I like the built-in nav systems. You don't need it often but when you do, you really do.

Ok. I'll take your word for that. I have never done it. I have only seen, in other threads, where folks report using Waze to navigate in cell dead zone using previously stored maps. They did not discuss the details or limitations of it. I believe you are saying that you cant plan and initiate a trip with Waze using previously stored maps if you do not have an internet connections. I have no basis to disagree with that.

My original point was just that cell phones have satellite GPS receiver and processor and are capable of supporting navigation in a cell dead zone if the Navigation software/app supports it.

I also had paper maps.

Download the map before dead zones? Keep an old school atlas as a backup? Ive driven all over the U.S. through many dead zones and have never once used a car's built in Nav. I cant help it if people are ignorant of the tools they have available, or are so hopelessly dependent on technology that this new subscription nonsense makes an iota of difference.

If people werent so helplessly dependent on tech maybe GM wouldnt be planning on making you subscribe to use it.

Paper maps? What a strange idea, never heard of it, can you elaborate?
;)
How time flies. I still have my road atlas, somewhere... I think... But the kicker is that there is no room for it in the C8's cabin :(

It's not a concern for me either, but there are still areas where cell phone reception isn't reliable, and carplay/aa navigation drops out. I've hit a few dead spots in Ohio and still been within spitting distance of homes and 1 traffic light towns. The US is a big, big place. Think about out west in desert areas, around lakes, etc. Dead spots everywhere, really.

Now, if I were heading into such places I'd make sure I had offline maps downloaded to my phone and have done this before. But it's still silly to see them remove true on-board GPS when they already had the system in place.

Rest assured this move to both eliminating AA/carplay and true onboard GPS is only going to result in subscription based services or being stuck to use your phone standalone in a mount. They want that sweet sweet sub money. I hope it backfires, but all the automakers want this. I doubt the market will push back hard enough to keep it from happening.

You don't need a factory installed navigation system in your car to have Navigation assistance. There are plenty of navigation apps available and as long as you have Apple Car Play, you are good to go. I think the most important benefit of using an app vice the factory nav, is that the app will always be updated with the most current maps, etc. Been using Googlemaps and Waze for years and could care less that the car doesnt have factory navigation.

Honestly I only use Waze for navigation and that's also a Google product.

Out west it isn't just the number of cell towers, it is the terrain. I live in a rural area of the Sierra Nevada foothills. I have a AT&T cell tower less than a mile from me but there is a ridge between the cell tower and me. I barely have reception to the cell tower at my house but there is a Verizon tower less than 1000' from me that has great reception. However, as I drive down my road I loose reception from the Verizon cell tower but, if I had AT&T service, I would gain a strong signal. And these towers are available because I'm close to town. When I travel to other towns I loose cell reception many times along the way. Luckily GPS Maps has downloaded the data for me since I frequent the area. But when I travel to areas I don't frequent I can loose navigation unless I have entered a route into Google Maps. Between the terrain and sparse population it won't financially feasible for the providers to have complete coverage in the near future. That is when I switch to the reliable OEM navigation.

Navigation was not standard on the 1LT in 2023. Its part of an option that adds $1795 to price.

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I’m one of those potential ‘24 BEV owners that GM has lost. I was going to seriously look into a Blazer SS for the wife when they’re released, but the lack of Apple CarPlay means she is not in the least interested in the vehicle. Luckily Acura will have the ZDX which is a joint venture with GM using the same mechanicals that will have wireless ACP and AA, so more money to Honda I guess.

This whole thread makes me happy I already have a C8. GM (and other manufacturers) attempts to make a continual income stream from subscription services is deplorable. That the car comes equipped, but you have to pay to use is simply WRONG, i.e. BMW heated seats. .. Just more enshittification.

Hard to read a map while driving my car. In fact not possible at all.

It looks like it might. That is, you might be able to use your phone as a hotspot that will provide the necessary data to support the "built-in" Google Map navigation. I found this while I was poking around. I think that while you are using your phone as a hotspot, it can't simultaneously support the wireless connection via WiFi for other CarPlay functions. I did not double check that, but I think I tried that and could not get it to work. The connections show up differently in the menu on the car as well, depending on whether it is connected as a "device" to the car's hotspot, or connected as an external network (a hotspot) connected to the car.


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So if I'm reading this correctly, if my car is stolen, the police may or may not be able to find it.

Hopefully the built-in Google Maps will work using a hotspot but the other documents you posted said a subscription plan for the car was necessary.

My favorite GPS experience was taking my kids to summer camp in the Pennsylvania highlands for the first time. The camp had sent directions, but my (then) high-end Garmin GPS suggested a different way, so I thought I'd follow that. The road it took me down started off paved, then turned to gravel, then turned to narrow two-track. I decided to turn around at the next driveway, and follow the written directions.

Looking at a map later, the Garmin would have had me swimming across a lake. :D

Indeed, GM could easily include enough memory to download the entire US. (Or they could just put the entire US on an SD card,....) But GM and Google's model here is to maximize revenue, so I suspect that won't be possible.

Most roads still have shoulders or other areas where you can pull off.

Aside from that, given how often I used to see people reading a map while driving, apparently it is possible! :D

Navigation is separate from GPS. The GPS + software calculates the position of your car. Nav uses that data, and a database of roads and other data) to tell you how to get from here to there.

OnStar will still use the car's GPS receiver to locate the car (assuming you have an appropriate OnStar plan

This is what I'm sayin. I travelled through extremely rural areas with one lane roads all over the united states using nothing but a paper atlas at age 16. I didnt start using nav apps on a smart phone till maybe 8 years ago. So for 16 to 34, I was 100% analog navigation-wise and never had a problem. Never got lost on paved roads (got "lost" on unpaved ones a few times intentionally, wander lust and all that, still managed to find my way back to where I needed to be).

People's dependence on all things digital is frightening. Of course I'm typing this on a smart phone but take my phone away and drop me anywhere in the U.S. on any paved or unpaved road I'd be fine. The only time I'd want GPS is if hiking in the back country, for safety. Nature can turn you around in ways no man made road ever will.

I suspect (but don't claim to know) that even with a hotspot you'll only be able to download maps if you have a subscription.

The difference is that the built-in maps are a cost to GM. They have to pay for a license in each car built. Google's system is revenue to GM. Easy to see why GM prefers this approach.

But I won't buy a GM car if I can't use Android Auto with my phone, and have to pay for yet another subscription to get Nav on the infotainment screen.

Yes of course its possible. When I learned to fly, it was before GPS, LED displays, etc. It was not so long ago. We used Aeronautical Charts. Planned our trips. Marked check points (this is VFR now). The chart was right there on your knee. No pulling over. Same with maps - we had no other options. You planned your route in advance, then followed on on the map. Clever folding was a skill. I still carry maps and review my route on the map for long trips. Many times I have to manipulate the navigation system with way points to get it to follow the route that I want.

For sure. Skillful folding! I had forgotten that little gem. I guess all I'm trying to say is people are worried about GM taking something away. Or charging a subscription, or whatever. But the point is that only works if people LET it work. If people simply REFUSE to pay the subscription it will go down faster than a 2 dollar hooker.

Use your phone. Use a map. DONT pay subscription fees! It really is that simple. And if enough people did it, Mary B. and the dumby bunch would be forced to reevaluate their goals.


If GM would sell me a mid engine C7.5 with an analog dash, physical dials for the A/C, NO infotainment display, NO android auto or apple carplay, and as few electronic demons waiting to break as possible I'd buy it in a new york minute.

As it stands I'm waffling between another C8 as my next car or an old C2 resto mod with modern brakes and suspension but as minimal electronic crap as possible.

People think a subscription for GPS is bad. Wait till all the solenoids, control modules, etc etc etc start failing out of warranty.

They do, but GM is deceptive like that. With the previous system, reading the documentation - you would think that a subscription was required for Navigation. Attached are clips from the 2023 Manual and the Chevrolet.com website specs. The use the term "Connected Navigation". They never make it clear that there is a Navigation function that does not require a subscription, do they?

I agree - we do not know yet for the new one, and I agree that all the material says one is required. There is also some muddying of terms - is it subscription or plan - is something required in addition to theOnStar data plan? I found nothing that said there was an additional Google subscription = and in fact no Google account is required.



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The car needs GPS so that it can remember your pre-set front lift areas.

Which is crazy because it's only software (and mapping software has existed for decades, so it's not like it needs to be developed from scratch for each car) and the SD card socket. The car has a GPS receiver anyway for OnStar and I doubt that they have any other hardware needed to support navigation. This is a perfect example of "value pricing", i.e. charge whatever the customer is willing to pay for it, does not need to have any relation to the cost. But that's the way it goes.

Does the 1LT without that option still have the SD card or slot for it? I think there might be hardware associated with the map access in the 2020-2023 models.

pfffffff...While I agree men can't drive and read a map I've seen more women than I care to count reading big fat paper back books resting on the steering while driving 80 on the interstate in the fast lane....all while applying eye makeup and talking on the phone.... :shrug:


:lol:

:cheers:

I have a 2023 C8, 2021 Camry and 2020 Rav4 and use Android Auto. We have traveled to Florida, Kentucky, Michigan and New Hampshire from New York. We never had a problem with Cell Phone Dead Zones.

Just read that the new Blazer EV will include 8 years of subscription to connected services. Will be interesting to see if they do that for the C8.

Try the mountains of West Virginia, or a few hours into the desert in Nevada. Or even Skyline Drive in Virginia, and the Blue Ridge Parkway. The East is pretty well blanketed with cell coverage, especially along interstates. The southwest not always, especially if you're off the beaten path where you most need Nav.

I think the only reason for that is that the EVs will not have apple carplay or android auto. That is only planned for EV's so they don't need to give out the subscription for C8's.

Definitely more of a problem out West.