i strongly prefer a c7 over a c8, here are my top 3 reasons; do they make sense?
 

even though i'm likely buying a c8, i strongly prefer a c7 (most likely grand sport). "best deal" i found is this deal, which is not that great of a deal tbh:

https://www.misarmotors.com/details/...vette/93161506

(looks like a shady dealership)

but, here are my top 3 reasons for wanting a c7 over a c8:

1) front engine: easier to fix than mid engine, lower cost of ownership, can see everything and top fluids easily

2) can use 3-channel dash cam (c8 has issue connecting rear camera), connect to rear window

3) can take to any mechanic (c8 i only trust chevy mechanic); i feel i can take the c7 to "bob's auto repair" but a c8 i feel i get only chevy, expensive

that's my top 3 reasons for wanting a c7 over c8

are my reasoning reasonable, or are they inaccurate?

I like my C7, but, with all the craziness with car jackings, I have started thinking about the C8 HTC.

I have a warranty, so all the work is done at the trusted Chevrolet Dealership. They also top off the fluids.

I guess it would depend on the deal. :cheers:

We all have our own reasons for our preference but yes, all your points are understandable. Sure, there's a bit animosity between C1-C7 owners however one common ground shared is the Corvettes characteristic long hood front engine layout. Many people have stated the C8 just doesn't look or feel like a Corvette anymore, for many reasons but perhaps the layout change being the biggest one.

My tops 3 reasons for deciding to keep my C7 over getting a C8 are as follows:

1. MANUAL transmission. Putting my bias aside, I test drove a C8 on a few occasions to see if the C8's DCT would be enough for me to not miss the manual. Potential tranny issues aside, the DCT is a GREAT transmission however I could already imagine myself missing the manual. Even though it's slower, the extra layer of involvement is something I'd rather not part with yet.

2. The rawness and analog feeling of the C7. Superior rear midship layout that offers better traction, smooth DCT, better suspension geometry all work together to make the C8's for sure faster and more capable, however the overall experience is muted compared to the C7. Still present but greatly diminished is the exhaust noise, complaint harshness and old school chassis feeling of the C7. Again, all subjective. I know that if I got a C8 Z51 I'd need exhaust, coilovers, pads/lines/fluid, forged wheels and perhaps harder bushings to get some of that harshness back. I've been hearing very good things about the C8 Z06 though..

3. The cost benefit just isn't there coming from a C7. I can get maybe $50k for my lowly C7 as it sits and the C8' I'd want comes out to $102K OTD plus I know I'll put in another $12k to get the essentials out of the way (forged wheels, exhaust, intake) and perhaps another $15k for it to be done (bbk, coilovers, bushings). For me, the C7 does exactly what I want it to and for the most part I am quite content with it. Sure, getting a C8 would be awesome because it's faster and a new platform to play with, but so far in my mind I don't think i can justify paying double or triple what my C7 is worth. Perhaps when C8 Z06's can be had at MSRP, I'd reconsider.

For me, this is the biggest factor in why the C7 is my choice. Yes, the C8 is an amazing car with stellar performance, but the C7 is no slouch and is still a hoot to drive.

First of I have 2019 2LT Grand Sport with an A8. As she's my only car she's my daily driver (plenty of room in the back for a month's worth of groceries). While the C8 is an awesome car I feel that it's more a lambo clone and not a Corvette. I love my interior, as the C8's wall of buttons really turns me off. My stepson and I recently took a road trip to Cooperstown NY (Baseball HOF) and he was easily able to reach into the cooler in back for cold water during the trip, try doing that in a C8.
I'm not a track guy so the 460 LT1 engine is more than enough for me. Hell, most of the time I'm cruising the streets of Brooklyn and rarely get above 30 MPH any way. I've heard the C8and in my opinion I love the growl coming out of my performance exhaust much better.
One final thing ... I think my 2019 GS looks far prettier than the C8.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...f9a60e3e5e.jpg

I can't imagine owning/driving a Corvette in Brooklyn! Good for you! :flag:

Just can't warm up to the look of the C8. Does not wow me.

The photo speaks a thousand words. Absolutly beautiful and my #1 reason for keeping the C7.

Can GM Produce mid engine Corvette and front engine Corvette side by side like Ferrari?

No way at this time can I fathom giving up my 2019 Z06 M7 Convertible for the C8. Not in love with the looks of the C8. Some views of the C8 look good like the front end but the side and rear view leave a bit to be desired. I realize the dct on the C8 is quicker than the M7 but it just for me takes away some of the sports car driving experience.

The C8 is a great car! But....it's a nonstarter for me because of the styling. Of course that's just me. I understand that. But if I did like the looks the storage capacity is a deal breaker as well a the cabin configuration. When I wear out my Z06 with 113,00 miles on it I'll buy another C7 Z06. A black one this time around.

I felt the same way when I was driving C5s and C6s several years ago and the C7 came out. Do you remember the uproar about the C7 not having round taillights?? :rofl:
I am sure that if I live long enough, the C8 will grow on me just like the C7 did.:smash:

Any reason you personally don't like the C8 is valid, it's your money. I don't care what others think of my reasoning. That being said, that car looks fantastic and even though I paid 58,000 for my 2019 GS brand new that is a smoking deal especially with the low mileage. I would jump all over that if the car looks and runs as good as the pictures look. As far as shady dealer Google reviews are 5 stars if that means anything to you. Me personally I would jump on this fast at that price.

Took a long time but the C8 grew on me. It has a racetrack look while a C7 has more of a daily driver street look.
They are completely different animals, both beautiful but different.

I'm a C7 Grand Sport nut myself, however I still think the C8 looks beautiful. Great body lines, very aggressive styling, and great straight line performance. My opinions are based on track performance for my reasons to own so I know most would not be thinking the same way I do however its another outlook on a good thread here:)
My reasons for choosing the C7 GS over the C8 was performance based only. I've been competing in competitive time attack against C8's since they came out and I've raced some very heavily modified cars and so far have not been beaten by a C8 yet. We'll see how fast the Z06 will be when people start getting them to the tracks here in the Northeast. The C8's I've raced are typically very fast on the straights but due to a more narrow front tire as well as a lot more weight they do not stop as quickly and have much more understeer in the turns. I've noticed they do not handle as well as the C7's do as long as both cars have good drivers that is. The C7 is much lighter and more nimble of a car. Better weight balance and has great front end grip for sharp turn in. Loose is fast, understeer scrubs a lot of speed. The LT1 is a great engine, reliable on track and easily modified to make 500hp (ish, mine is 456whp) which for a lightened up C7 grand sport(3161lbs) is great on track.
I really enjoy the manual transmission, even though it might be a tenth or two slower per lap I enjoy shifting. The stock shifter is shit on track, I love the Tick Performance shifter and its easy to install and makes the transmission much better.
Either way, both are great cars!! Both are corvettes and whether you like one or the other we're all corvette people and I respect them all and love to see a corvette no matter the year.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...219e5a416a.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...040c329731.jpg

The C8 is a great car, but I won't buy a C8 to replace my C7 for two reasons:
1) No manual transmission
2) C8 styling versus C7 styling. One looks goofy...and out-of-proportion.

I suspect my next high performance car will come from Stuttgart......

Was thinking about that as well.
С7 is more raw, way more menace in the looks, angrier. You feel that the car is based on 20-year old chassis. But it's really fast on track though, plus you have right version - GS, n/a engine with all the handling from z06.
C8 is ultra-modern. Good car, but it was already mentioned that you'll need quite some money to liven up the roughness of a car. Not as focused as well; and z06 is unattainable mostly.
Ultimately if you want dual-purpose/street car, and you like manual - it's C7 GS all the way. Even if you don't like it specifically, you force to have M7 in C7. Otherwise just buy C8, because A8 in C7 cancels pretty much all good things about the car and ruins it. Drove C8 Z51 and C7 GS A8 back to back, and it was even more terrible than c7 gs a8 alone. C7 gs M7 is completely different - brilliant - and it occupies my parking lot for that.

My three reasons:
1. Less luggage space in C8, too little
2. Styling - C8 has too many angular slants and openings
3. My wife could not handle that angular wall between passenger and center console and controls.
Ken

I understand, but I don't want a car that has to grow on me. It's love at first site for me! Just like the C3 and the C6, and most of all the C7.

I had a 1976 C3 & a C6. The C8 is a stark contrast to all previous vettes. For some like myself it took time to fully appreciate it, but it's not for me.
I love my C7. it's modern, beautiful and the last of the F/E classics.
Plus, if you notice, no surprise to me, it's held it's resale value great. I guess others think like me.

It aint that bad. That's why I have the A8 that three pedal dance would get old very quickly. When I'm on the interstate or the NY Thruway its 'M' mode and using dem paddles. Fuhgeddaboudit.

I prefer the look of the C7, especially the convertible, over the C8. But the C7 technology is dated. I'm looking at either a C8 or BMW M4, liening towards the M4

I remember when I first saw the C7 and my first thought was GM finally nailed it... then the GS came along. Stunning piece of art.

I assume most people who like the C7 and dislike the C8 will have similar reasons. Most common would be Front Engine/Design/Sight Lines and then Manual Trans/Analog Feel and finally Complexity/Serviceability.

When you say the C7 tech is dated, do you mean tech on the interior or tech as in performance development?

I should have been more descriptive. Mainly the interior. But I do love that you can set to lift the C8 Front using GPS

Yeah as far as interior tech and fancy stuff the C8 has the C7 beat for sure.

Bill

My reasoning was simple. I can't afford a C8. :) It took a long time to save the cash for my recent purchase and I still couldn't have gotten it had I not sold a 20k car to get it.

That said, the C7 looks more like a Corvette should to me, more like a natural evolution than a departure. The C8 has more of a supercar look and could maybe be another nameplate altogether. It is an incredible value in the supercar range for sure. The other thing is that I still feel like I could work on a C7, but wouldn't want to touch anything on a C8 for fear of the unknown or breaking something. I know my reasons are simplistic, but I am enjoying the heck out of the C7 a month into ownership. Too bad it takes a long winter's nap this weekend.

It seems I only like Corvette's that "Corvette" guys on this site either just flat out hate or at least nitpick the smallest of details and then conclude that the entire car is therefore crap.

My first Corvette was a C7 that I absolutely loved. Thought the design was the best yet, thought the interior and technology was the best yet just overall finally a Corvette that I could really appreciate from many perspectives. Then I joined this forum and all it seems there were was thread after thread saying how the C7 is just an afterthought. Not really a true Corvette, it does not have round tail lights or pop up headlamps and it's just overall an abomination.

Then along comes the C8, one of the most highly anticipated and first ever production mid-engine Corvette (well the C7 dudes will say the C7 was really not a front engine car but a mid front engine car whatever that really means). At first I was hesitant. I thought the C7 was everything I ever needed in a Corvette and even though I bought it when it was 4 years old I had 2 years of flawless ownership - but I wanted a mid-engine sports car. I had driven many exotics including Lambos, Macs, Ferraris and just loved the mid-engine mystique. So after seeing the C8 I thought at first that this was a bit radical and this coming from someone that still thinks the C7 is a masterpiece of great looking design. So I waited a couple of years and kept on driving my C7 which remained flawless.

Then I had a chance to take a friends C8 for a spin and that was it. Sold the C7, put myself on a list and 6 months later took delivery of the C8 and absolutely love everything about the car. It is so much better in every way that while I loved my C7 would never go back. After driving one on the track for a couple of days recently I am rethinking trading for the Z06. The car is that capable and that good. Well beyond what I consider needing for long road trips or weekend fun.

My advice to the OP? Decide for yourself what you really want. Which car sitting in your garage or driveway will provide you with the most rewarding sports car experience. Drive both, that will have a much larger impact on which car you want to own. None of the 3 top issues you have are issues at all.

They considered it and then ditched the plans. The Corvette is different from the Ferrari. Ferrari builds their cars on production lines designed for low-volume production while the Corvette is built on production lines that are designed for mid-level volumes with expensive tooling designed to make that volume level possible. The new C8 assembly line is pretty variable and more than likely would be able to handle both versions but the C7 assembly processes and tooling would have had to change to be built on that line which would have increased the cost of the C7. It seems that it was a wise decision based on the C8's popularity. It is in its 5th year of production (20, 21,22,23,24) and the demand is still fairly high and you have to really look to find a deal on new or used cars. By the time the C7 was in its 5th year of production (2018) the cars were being heavily discounted and had been discounted since the 2016 model year (except maybe for the 17 GS which had just been introduced for the 17 MY). I believe I heard that GM stated they had already delivered more C8s than they did total C7s. So even though they may have developed the ability to build C7s on the new assembly line they may not have had the physical time to build them.

The C8 has accomplished GM's goals. It has brought younger purchasers into the product, the product has been a stellar performer on the track which makes the track dogs happy and it is likely on the way to being the best-selling Corvette model ever.

Bill

Most people who buy a Corvette will never go to the track. For the daily driver or weekend cruiser the C8 is amazing! For the track, Corvette took a step in the wrong direction when they made the C8 but they are apealing to the masses not a small percentage of owners. Chevrolet did the right thing going mid engine and they made a hell of a car.

I have yet to see a Corvette I didn't like. I have a C7 and got to drive a C8. I like my time in the drivers seat. And from that view, I like the C7 much better. You don't get that profile from a C8.

Here is another I like this, and you don’t. Who cares? Pick what you want.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...3967b459e.jpeg
Depends where I’m going! I like the C8 but love my C7!🥃😜

they seem like valid opinions.

As an owner of a previous C3,C4, and two C5's, a brand new C6 that I kept for 18 years, and a low mile C7 (currently a 2014 with 26,000 miles) I will have to say that most Corvette owners will go to a newer generation for many reasons. Corvette's can have problems however for the most part they are fairly reliable and do not cost that much to repair or maintain. A C1 or C2 or any generation for that matter can be just as much of a money pit as a well maintained C8.

IDK. How often do you top off fluids? I might use windshield washer but the rest aren't that often done, even on the C7. I know, you are supposed to do a thorough check of all fluids, lights and tires, etc, etc of every car before starting but let's be honest, is that what you do for every car you have ever owned although that is in the manual and maybe even driver handbook? How difficult a C8 is WRT a C7, not sure.

Don't know about that. I have no use for a dashcam myself and actually wouldn't want one so hard to say.

Under warranty, I wouldn't take it to anyone but a Corvette mechanic because of his training or so they tell me. But do you take your C7 to "Bob's Auto Repair and Grill"? I honestly don't see that much of a difference between labor rates of dealership vs independent unless it is a sketchy shop in the ghetto. Good places aren't cheap and cheap places aren't good. Besides, I can make anything cheap by cutting things off. Most every job has a book time so if the triple flush, for example costs $900 at a GM place and "Bob's" costs me $500, I am going to be worried they took some shortcuts to get that nice number. Usually, I find out the hard way I am right.

How is that any different than when the C2, C3 and C4 and C5 came out and later on the C6 and the C7 and so on? Many on the C4 forum where I was proclaimed that it was the last best Corvette too.

Probably the most important thing since we all know what happened when HD catered to the "Old Guard".

"OBSOLETE". The word I hated hearing whenever I went to the parts counter and had to rely on dumpster diving for parts.

I think the C8 is beautiful and has a very intimidating look, like an exotic rear engined car. GM absolutely hit a home run with it. If I had the space to store two Corvettes, I'd probably go with a C-8. But I don't.
That said, I'll stay with the C7 for three reasons:
1. Most important for me, I ride a road bike. I can fit a 54cm S-Works Tarmac in the rear compartment simply by removing the front wheel from the bike and moving the passenger seat all the way forward. I usually drive a SUV to bike rides, but I like the option of combining my two passions every now and then.
2. I'm still in love with a big American V8 sitting in front of me. I love watching the front end lift under hard acceleration. The C7 is the last of the iconic Corvettes to have that.
3. I'm not done driving a manual transmission. The day may come when I go with an automatic, but it will probably be a C7 Z-06. Until then, I'll keep on rowing.

Agree and no place for my wife’s dog.

What dog? I have a C7 and I would NEVER put anything over 30 pounds in the cargo area.

Likely inaccurate since cost of ownership is similar. You can install a dash camera on both and you can take either to competent mechanics. You can still prefer the C7 though.

I don't see how that's possible with MY2016 being the 5th highest volume model year for Corvette in general. The C8 also had issues with COVID and producing cars with the chip shortage. Total C7 Production is 189,507 with 144,999 being the first 4 model years. We all know 2018 was a short year and the plant shut down for most of the year due to the paint shop changes so the 9686 is an anomaly and should be thrown out from a data perspective (or at least averaged with 2019 bringing the final two years to be around 20k each). C8 production after 3 years is 72,415. It's failed to sell more than 30k in any year and won't meet the C7 totals even after 7 years (it will need to sell close to 40k the next 3 model years each year).

Changing the engine location form an engineering standpoint changes a lot about the car and forces design changes. Realistically the last time Corvette went through anything close to these changes would be the C1 to C2 (removal of the solid rear axle and introduction of the coupe) and the C5 (with the trans-axle). But the fact that a 1969 C3 and a 1982 C3 have some differences helps with some of the earlier transitions (and if I remember correctly the C2 and C3 share a chassis). One can argue from C5-C7 the Corvette was fundamentally unchanged (longest period in Corvette history). Sure headlamps, and tail lamps had some evolution but the C5 is clearly from an engineering and design shape standpoint the same as a C7. Components got updated and advanced but the car is basically the same.

So taking that into account you can break Corvette into 5 periods and I argue that each one is a different car with a different fan base (personally I dislike C4s):

1 C1
2 C2/C3
3 C4
4 C5/C6/C7
5 C8

Love my C7. I like both C7 and C8. I see them as two very different cars with the same logo.

Some more thoughts and a bit of a rant from me that I am sure people have heard before here.

I've always argued that the base car was fine as a front engine. The Z06 and ZR1 had reached the limit and needed to change to go faster. But I'm also not a fan of mid-engine cars (I prefer front engine Ferraris and vehemently dislike McLaren, Lambo, et al to the point I'm not invited to things because some of my car friends think I'll be dismissive of these ultra rich people and their stupid looking mid-engine cars).

The C8 is not a bad car from an engineering standpoint or performance stand point. To me it's not a Corvette (regardless of Zora's desire in the 1970's to go mid-engine, he was one man and outvoted on many occasions justly so I'd argue).

The other reason to go the way they did for C8 was specifically to remove the manual and to add the E-Ray. This is why the tunnel was designed as it was. Which I also vehemently disagree with. To me this was all bad engineering decisions and selling out to the "YouTube Bros" who love everything "exotic" (this is the same reason I think Ford made boneheaded decisions with the Ford GT, the Mustang GTD is a much better car and reminds me in many ways of a C5/6/7 with its trans axle).

I think to some people here my personal distaste (and some would elevate vendetta) against Tadge is another factor in my dislike of the C8. Which he launched the C7 he inherited the program and was never happy with it viewing the C8 as his way to "fix Corvette" which in my mind was not broken and did not need fixing.

2018 was a shortened year but 2019 was equivalently longer by the same number of months (started production in Feb 18 Vs July 18) so didn't have much if anything to do with the overall C7 production rate. Total C8 production hit 101,500+ cars by March 1st of this year and the 2023 model production closed out with a run of over 50,000 Corvettes. That hasn't happened since the 18 month long 1984 C4 production run. The C8 will easily eclipse C7 production as orders are still high into the 5th year of production with two more C8 models in the pipeline to be introduced and produced with maybe a third model following.

Bill

Looks like a good car to me. Low miles. If it checks out, I'd buy it. Provided that you like it.

I just realized that "you'll likely buy a 2020, or newer Corvette." I suggest that you buy both. That'd be one way to also have a traditional drive (2014 - 2019) unit Corvette, as well.

As a new unit buyer of a 1977, and my present 2017. You're missing out on the best of the best model year/s' FE, the '14-'19 Corvette. They will NOT disappoint!

Might be easier to list the OBJECTIVE criteria for selecting one over the other?

I agree 100% with EdSpec!

That's pent up demand from the lack of availability for the first 2-3 years (under 30k for the first 3 model years is strangely low). Still would need to average over 35000 the next two years to pass the C7. I don't see it. Corvette historically always has a slow down after the initial boom. Even if they break a record for 2023 and build 55k, you's need 32500 for the next two model years still to top the C7. I don't think the C8 sells any differently than any other Corvette and in fact if anything the higher price will stifle demand more quickly when the pent up demand runs out. Selling that many cars for that many years is not easy.

Except a large portion of buying a sports car (or really anything that's a toy) is subjective whims. People don't even buy regular cars objectively (and arguable they should), but in the toy space objectivity goes out the window. If objective criteria mattered Jeep would sell almost zero Wranglers, Ford would never have reintroduced the Bronco. No one would sell a 2 seat car.

Sure you can argue the performance merits of one versus the other, or lap times, or cargo space. But realistically no one is buying these cars for those reasons. Comfort, design, function to your intended usage all out weigh the objective measures (its why when car magazines list all the objective metrics and try to weight them to determine a winner in sports cars its mildly laughable)

GM has already stated that there is a good chance the C8 will outsell the C7 by the end of next year or sometime in the next which really does not matter at all. What does matter is the E-Ray and Z06 are just barely getting going and there will at least be a ZR1 version and possibly a Zora. The lifespan of the C8 is expected to last through to the end of this decade. That's another 5-7 years of C8 still to go. The only model not expected to be eclipsed production wise is the C3. What everyone always overlooks is that the C8 is the first Vette to have both incredible international appeal and availability. It's not even close to being done as a hot seller.

But who really cares? Nobody I know buys any sports car because it is produced in large numbers. The C8 is the realization of what the Corvette was supposed to be whether the old school accepts that or not. The fact that it came with an ICE powerplant is a relief to those that still appreciate that their Corvette makes noise. I would not doubt it a bit that if by the time the C9 is ready for action that it will be silent. If nothing else that will give a lot of forum members another great opportunity to continue to belly ache over that and of course that it also does not meet their own personal taste in styling..... Just like my C7.

C7 Grandsport is perfection. I just purchased a Z51 for track duty. I couldn't find a mint Grandsport that wasn't Z06 money, and I am happy with the Z51. If you own a C7 GS hold on to it.

Now to the C8... it is just a completely different car. I do not compare it to the C1-C7.

I love the C8, but it is trying to compete against the exotics, McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. I wish that Chevy refreshed the C7 and released the current C8 under a different model name. That way they could have gone even crazier on specs, and not have to worry about alienating Corvette buyers, since they'd still have the traditional front engine Corvette priced as expected.

Personally I'd go with a Cayman GTS or GT4, 911S+ over a C8.

Here are my criteria. Out of the box, it makes about 400 HP so it is a good start. I don't want older than 10 years and I don't want new. I chose the16 because it has most electronics and features. I need it to be serviceable at a reasonable place like a Ford or GM or Chrysler dealer so there are more facilities than 1 every 200 miles. Cargo space isn't too much of a concern because we travel light. We don't have kids and we don't give rides usually so 2 seats or 4 doesn't make much of a difference. If I want to mod it, there are enough mods. Kinda why I steered away from the C8. I don't know if the mid/rear engine car and systems are here to stay. Trade even with a C8 and I will do it since the extra gain justifies some of the risk as does the electronic toys.

Old school dies sooner than the new kids. They have more years to buy whereas the old guard is going to die sooner and/or give up buying the car. Sustainability isn't with the past. It is with the future.

While I prefer the quiet, there is no way I believe EV can be as convenient as the ICE because of the infrastructure or I'd own one yesterday.

I doubt we will have BOTH the technology AND infrastructure to support total EV. I would love to be proved wrong but I doubt it would come in the next 20 years or that I would be alive and care.

Who cares? They will be the past and that's that. Harley found out how good it was to take the past into consideration.

C7 all day absolutely stunning, aggressive in Z form, amazing performance, thrilling to drive.. C8 well .. you can't win them all.. boring, ugly ill conceived look will bar many from wasting time on the nice tech under that hideous body, Just my opinion folks.. go for the C7 last of the great corvettes C8 about as cool and aggressive as a Volvo SUV :lol:

Know any of the older generation people, besides me, that don't say their old one is the last of the great Corvettes?

You don't like brake by wire and flappy paddles?

It is a new concept so I will love to have it. If you are talking about the shift paddles, I have used them before just to see what it does but not since then.

As someone who does Chassis Engineering for a living (I work on EPS Software), I loathe Brake By Wire. I also hate Automatics, including the flappy paddles. The only time I'll take an auto is in a pickup truck.

What, from an engineering standpoint is that bad about the brake by wire? Yes, it's a new concept like ABS, EFI, Fly by Wire or any new tech introduction and might not be as perfected but lacking improvements?

Live YOUR dream!
 

C7 Grand Sport M7 over here since it was love at first sight, then once I drove it I knew I had found the Corvette for me!

So I am just curious, why are you thinking you'll buy a C8 if you prefer the C7?!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...66610e272b.jpg

No manual is deal breaker for me!

Throttle by wire is fine, because they remapped the engine to work with it and you never directly feel the throttle. ABS is just pulsating the brakes while your foot is on the pedal (and you feel it). Brake feel has mostly been a direct connection to the hydraulic fluid you are pushing through (even with the vacuum boost) so when you go brake by wire you remove that and you have to fake it with software. Steer by Wire is similar (and I loathe more) also because I can deal with ETC when I have a manual (I can control the engine by disconnecting it) and I can still manually brake and steer under worst case. With Brake and Steer By Wire technologies there are failure modes where you basically pull over and you're done. Car is a brick. But before then you have multiple redundant systems (Adding complexity and thereby failure modes).

:iagree:

What craziness?... I've been over at C5 forum. 🤔
Are you saying don't do a C7?

Even if the C8 was offered with a manual transmission, that would still not be enough to sway me over.

But is the feel accurate? Not sure if it is any different faked or real especially with ABS. IDK how to do a double blind test to determine that one though.

I guess what I was looking for, since you introduced yourself as a Chassis Engineer is more of a technical reason and not because you are afraid of losing control of the vehicle. The failure mode is one question. The only thing I need to know is whether the system is that unreliable where it frequently breaks down or whether the "brick" issues are an aberration. I get that back in the day, there are only a few things that can go wrong in the car and you probably can fix them by the roadside very easily. Today, the car is totally different and is harder to do roadside fixes. Well, that is the price we pay for the benefits of the electronics. My washing machine had a bad circuit board. That "bricked" the machine and it was older so they didn't make it any more. Grandma hung laundry outside and never had an issue unless a bamboo pole broke and she had quite a few so it wasn't an issue. So, is the system that unreliable? Obviously, we have to give more leeway for a new system as opposed to an old system which has all the kinks worked out.

Are we adults or back in grade school? Why would there be any animosity and WGAS even if there was? You aren't paying for it so if you don't like it, I don't care. We don't need common ground for the same reason. I'm more concerned if my date tonight likes it or not (if I were single) because it increases my chances of getting lucky.

Have you not heard that with each new generation? Didn't HD learn the hard way that catering to the old guard by making the new offerings feel like the old ones wasn't the greatest idea?

I saw that in the car's equipment, but passed on mentioning it to the guy. Why start something?:wink:

My 2017's a 7-speed. That's why I bought it.👍

The rear engine Lambo's, Ferrari's and Lotus.Air intakes blend in to the body.I know the price difference.
Just the styling of the C8 vents are Fugly :nonod:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...e9449ae600.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...e119da2cb7.jpg
Thats #1 Yuk!
Just to dame Big.Guess has to be..
#2 Yuk: The Convertible isn't clean in the back.
Got these to big again, foreign styled seat backrests in the Tonneau Area. :U
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...3b2c92cc04.jpg

C7 has a Clean rear tonneau..
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...36e7733dee.jpg
Not worth the upgrade that aint...
Keep looking at them.Can't see the spending. :nono:

Think in 10 years they will have a brake by wire module that has acceptable feel? EPS racks have come a long way, but still lack some of the feedback. I know some of that is dampening in the programming to prevent the user from feeling anything.

Good question. What's an acceptable "feel"? Besides "it feels like what I know."? Maybe it will be something new like when ABS came along and people complained it "feels" different or weird.

Right now we get 0 feel from brake by wire unfortunately. There isn't feedback from the system that indicates what it happening. Simulation setups get around this to some regard by adding hydraulics or shock absorbers for the sole purpose of emulating the pressure changes from applying the brakes. I use RC style coilovers on my sim racing braking pedal.

Pedal Feel is hard to quantify (today it most certainly still is real even with ABS, Traction Control, and Stability Control), but failure modes and a mechanical connection are valid technical reasons. By removing the mechanical connection you do get rid of noise factors, but some of those factors are positives and people like (meaning they are good noise and the driver wants that noise). It's like driving a car in real life versus a video game. Tactile feel is a thing even though its hard to quantify.

Further having a car which operates in a degraded or hard to use state is different than one which is broken and needs to be towed. There are many people who need their car and the uptime of the vehicle is an important metric. Further the loss of control for a human driver is a real concern (meaning when the system fully fails you won't have an option where it stops, maybe in lane, maybe on the shoulder these considerations are all in discussion by various OEMs). From an autonomous pod perspective, fine these techs are fine (the robot car will refuse to drive when a primary system fails after it completes the current journey but a human driver can drive a car with a primary system failed indefinitely unless the OEM purposefully disables the car and you know people won't like that).

But you buy a sports car for feeling and emotion. Brake By Wire and Steer By Wire don't have those. They are fake. ETC only makes your throttle electronic (the air delivery method to the engine) so your accelerator pedal is not tied to throttle position. However the stuff your engine does (and the fact it accelerates just as you'd expect) is real. So it's not a 1:1 comparison.

EPS has minor technical issues versus Brake and Steer By Wire. EPS feels weird mostly because you're back driving an electric motor (and the mech assembly that connects it to your rack or column). But you still have a road connection and most of the noise gets back to the driver.

Technology always gets better, and I think what happens over time is it gets "good enough" and then people forget. You forget what the old tech felt like because you don't drive it every day. But to me, its not something that should be rushed onto a sports car. That's the last place I'd expect to see this stuff.

The original C7 design was to have HPS, but GM told Corvette that wasn't an option and they would have to take EPS even though it would degrade steering feel. The EPS electronics and SW are carryover ATS/CTS (Alpha Platform) on the C7. The rack mechanical hardware internals has a lot shared with the 911 (as ZFLS/Bosch makes the Steering Rack for both Corvette and 911) things like the ball screw, rack bar, etc. So that worked out OK (I also worked on that product so I am biased).

But talking with my brake counterparts, I get the impression the change to Brake By Wire is very different and HPS to EPS, and is more like EPS to Steer By Wire. Which from what I know has awful steering feel today.

My daily driver has hydraulic rack and pinion, throttle cable, manual, and double wishbone. The "feel" isn't something replicated by a less analog vehicle for sure. The steering wheel, pedals, chassis, etc all communicate what is happening.

I suspect another part of the issue isn't the choice of tech, but the conscious effort to isolate the driver from those systems under the guise of luxury.

I get lots of comments on my 15 Z51 not so much when discussing the C8 but you have to give it to the dealers they pulled one over when the C8 came out

Kitty..... Yes your reasons make sense... General Motors reasoning is a conumdrum!.... particularly the structure of any Chevy top brass, their continuity of thought could and should be gathered from Corvette customers across this nation.... Have they been listening? I guess that is a question time will tell.

When I decided to move up from a C5 I looked at both the C7 and C8. Since my C5 (and future purchase) were intended for road trips I needed room for two suitcases, a cooler, backpacks and extra space for her souvenirs. The C8 couldn’t handle that load so I bought a ‘16 Stingray coupe A8 with every appearance and convenience option. Thirty thousand miles later I’m happy with my purchase. Photo taken near Manistee, Michigan on our last trip https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...838d19c06.jpeg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...56633305e5.jpg
Hmmm...C8? Yeah, It makes sense....:D

I'm fortunate to own both a '16 and '23 convertibles and side by side they're both amazing cars, each one having it's own appeal to me. I really don't understand why some people "hate" the C8 platform other than:

Lack of a manual transmission..... Check.

Looks like a Ferrari or Lambo wannabe..... Check.

Is now a mid engine..... Check.

Doesn't give 1000% road/driving feedback..... Check.

To those that complain about some or all of the above, what would you have had GM do? Keep producing the C7 for the next 25 years? After all it's the perfect Corvette isn't it? Oh wait, I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth because the C7 didn't have round taillights. Oh my how the sky was falling back then.

Every person has their preferences as we should, so if someone prefers one generation of car over another fine, one make over another great. I just don't understand how some can literally hate a Corvette because it's not like theirs.

​​​​​

I think it is pretty much "noisy" because they lacked the technology to make "less noisy" affordable or even possible. To me, it is like me having to exist on Ramen noodles because I couldn't afford anything else when
i was young and broke. Today, I make a boatload of money. Why would I want to go back to those days of Ramen noodles?

OTOH, considering how people drive around with cars in conditions that are not safe, is taking away that ability to drive with a broken car that bad a thing? I don't care if you take a beater car into the desert but when you are on the road with me, having pieces fall off or vise grips stopping your brake fluid from blowing out isn't cool. Now if is is like running out of DEF and it limits you to 5 mph, I got no issue. Dead stop in the middle of the highway at 80 is a different story. I don't think that is how it is designed to behave, is it?

I would think that if you bought a performance car, the main thing would be the performance. I don't expect the C7 to be a luxury sedan but if it is, I can't see how that would offend me. I don't understand being hung up on the past and how things were. I can't fathom the idea that people would look for a C2 feel in a C7 anymore than I'd complain that my F250 feels rougher than my Sedan.

:ack:gross

O my god. There are people here that prefer an ox cart. Horse in front pulling a cart. Leaf springs and solid axles too? Indycar,F1,super cars,hyper cars must have it backward.
Steps on his Foote seems to be stuck in the pre war era.

C7 is a better car, objectively speaking.

Could it be that it feels weird because you have already made up your mind how it should feel and any deviation will be found weird? Maybe like the Amish whom I expect to see in black and white clothes but it find it hard to accept someone is Amish because they don't wear black and white?

I don't think I forgot how it was without cell phones and having to use a land line and pieces of paper. Maybe just not nostalgic for the old days because you see some of the bad side of the old days and realize they weren't that good after all? Why does a sports car have to be using decades old technology to be a sports car? Why can't it have the best tech to accomplish the goal?

Than the Ox or Horse? Probably, unless you are talking about eating the animals. In which case, the animals are a better "vehicle" for overcoming hunger.

Define sports car.

Looks
Price vs gains for a driver that is not a PRO
Options
Reliability
Looks

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sports%20car

Note, it says "usually". Doesn't have to be 2 passenger from what I see.

C8 could have been a styling triumph, for whatever reason we ended up with a very disappointing package. I was looking forward to it myself.. until I saw and drove one. I think there is a place for continued development of the front engine Corvette.. Ferrari still makes beautiful front engine cars... the arguments for C8 just are silly to me.. I personally have liked all the generations of Corvettes.. this is my first disappointment in the brand

I like some angles of c8, but that Camaro ass...

My list of reasons starts and stops with that one. If I want a flappy paddle gearbox, I'll just drive the wife's car.

Well as for more tech they are suppose to progress when they build a new model aren't they?

One would think. I build a house tomorrow and use old crap from the 60s?