2006 Z06 Dyno with LG Pro Long Tube Headers
 

Hi guys,

All this information is with our LG pro Long Tube system WITH cats.

This Z06 is owned by REDLINE OIL president, Tim Kerrigan. He had the car sent directly to us at LG Motorsports. We appreciate his confidence in us.

I will start with some facts. We installed the headers today with only one minor change to our 3" mid pipes. The C6 necks down to 2.5" but the Z06 has 3" mufflers. This only required a small change in our system to eliminate the 2.5" neck down and continue our 3" pipes to attach to the stock 3" mufflers.

ok Results. First I have to clarify some knowledge that I gained in the last 24 hours. Without being able to tune the PCM, Temperature makes a big difference. I am sure that Temperature also lowered our Base line numbers also. So the 443rwhp would have been higher had we cooled the car down more before we did 2 runs back to back.

Our "After" header install numbers were not up to where we thought they should be so we let the car cool down for about 30 minutes then we did 4 pulls in a row with only 2 minutes seperating each pull.

There is no way that I was going to just pick the best After pull and call it good.

Here is all the information for you to digest. the temp on the 3rd or 4th after pull was about equal to the baseline pull, so use this information wisely.

Also note that once we can get into the computer we will be able to go in and "affect" the changes in timing and other parameters that are pulling the power out.

The air fuel went from a 12.2 on the best run to an 11.7 on the worst run (in the 4 run graph)

The first graph is the base line, with a warm engine) against the cool engine pull with a 30 minute cool down.

The second graph is 4 pulls in a row, 2 minutes apart showing heat build up and the effects of the heat on the power.


Base line/After header install with cool engine
http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...%20install.JPG


4 pulls in a row below
http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...ack%20runs.JPG

You can see that the computer pulls about 16 rwhp out and 13rwtq
by doing 4 pulls back to back within 6 minutes total from starting the first pull.
Tuning will solve this easily.

Then just for fun, I pulled the air filter and made a quick pull before i left for the day. the car had been sitting for over 30 minutes.

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...6%20%20Z06.JPG

so i am to assume this is just headers, no cam nothing correct?

Am I reading this right? Up to 40 freaking hp and 50 ft-lbs with just long tubes? That's awesome ! :cool: :cheers: :flag:

Wow :thumbs: :cheers: :flag: :cool: :smash:

correct
Just LG Pro Long Tube headers with cats.

the bottom graph shows 4 runs with headers installed after installation.

We did the 4 back to back so we could know exactly what was happening with heat soak.

since we could not go back and remove the headers we know that the next car will be baselined both hot, and cold to clarify the results.

Thanks

Lou Gigliotti

Lou, now your cookin with gas! :cheers: Some LGM long tubes, get rid of the 2.5" bottle neck and we are starting to make some good power hot or cold. I'm becoming a believer that this engine with a good tune, intake, and headers may be over 500 at the wheels like a 427 should be. Now do a cam and holy schnikees. :thumbs:

Holy Sh*t!!!!!

Wow

Nice work! :cool:

:willy: thats great and imagine with a tune and intake:cool:

Lou, any time frame for the software kits and how does a boy in missouri- get hooked up- we're not even talking cams yet-

Thanks and I agree. The tune is critical

We already did remove the 2.5" bottle neck and install a full 3" connection to the stock mufflers

LG

I assume that's Random tech high-flow cats, not the stock ones, since they'd have to be eliminated by headers, correct?

OH YEAH BABY!!!! :eek: No cam numbers, just headers. Lou's the man.

C6 Z06 Rocks.

with the stock cats or the aftermarket high flow cats?

Dam fine performance increase from headers.

483 rwhp? 460rwtq! Wow!

Congrats

Looking forward to seeing what the pcm unlocks for you.

Just call me direct. and we can work your car in.

This car is owned by the owner of RED LINE Oil, Tim Kerrigan. He had the car sent directly to us for the first mods.

My own Z06 will be in this week or next and we will try 3 different cams in it. The results of that testing will determine which cam we will install in this red Monster.

LG

WOW!!!!

I am going to play the lottery......

I just caught that..AWESOME!!!!!

Wow those are awesome number. I'm curious what the car will do stock with just a tune, no headers.

I'm also curious about that Z06 that dynoed 454RWHP on a mustang dyno from LS1Tech......

:iagree:

anybody want to loan me 20k? I NEEEEEED a Z06..... :thumbs:

CAM! CAM! CAM! CAM! CAM! Oh, and uhhhh..... TUNING! TUNING! TUNING! TUNING! Hello 500 to the wheels real soon!!! :cheers: :cheers:

NO--great gains but the gain is about 30rwhp NOT 40....please go back and read the original post...He states the original number of 443 was LOW due to heat soak and for an accurate comparision you have to look at the 3rd and 4th runs--not the 1st....the apparent gain on the 3 run being the 'equaol' heat soak run is from 443 to 473...thats 30 --still very cooollll!!!

I say you dont need the cam to get 500 to the wheels with a good tune and intake it should be there

[QUOTE=LG Motorsports]

"Hi guys,

ok Results. First I have to clarify some knowledge that I gained in the last 24 hours. Without being able to tune the PCM, Temperature makes a big difference. I am sure that Temperature also lowered our Base line numbers also. So the 443rwhp would have been higher had we cooled the car down more before we did 2 runs back to back.

Here is all the information for you to digest. the temp on the 3rd or 4th after pull was about equal to the baseline pull, so use this information wisely. " End quote


Great gains--original numbers to 3rd pull--for an accurate comparison

:cool: :D Things just keep on getting better.

Reminds one of the HP gains on the 1969 L88 427 Vette with just adding Headers. Felt the difference with the seat of your pants.

Only difference is the new Z06 is civilized... Air Conditioning, Good Sound System, and Tires that would make an L88 owner green with envy.

Is it theoretically possible that with a good tune, good intake, and LG long-tube headers, it would be possible to get 500rwhp?

Using the 3rd pull numbers and the 12.5% loss, that puts the flywheel HP at 541.6!!! Torque goes to 511.3 :D

So is this thing underrated?? Think about it, the heat soaked motor produced rated numbers with drivetrain loss at 12.5%. It seems logical that the numbers will be higher on a cooler motor which means either A) car IS underrated or B) the drivetrain loss is less than 12.5% which is possible but physics-wise seems less likely.

i'm shocked it makes that much power....the stock system looks pretty darn good.

1st step....sell my LG headers off my Z06

2nd step...buy your new C6 Z06 headers.

3rd step...get the car and install them that day.



BTW....can you please do some dyno runs with the exaust valves open the whole time so we can see the difference. I'm amazed I'm the only one asking for this.

...and for those of us where emissions are NOT an issue ..Will the eliminations of the cats all together code and distort any increase in power? :rolleyes:

In Florida ..we don't need no stinkin' cats.. :yesnod: Please advise..

Very possible. We do not know what was going on with the engine perameters because this is the first 06 GM car we have had our hands on.

It will be possible with the remaining mods like airfilter, good tune, pully, and ported TB.

We are working hard to extract every ounce of HP out of it :thumbs:

We do have some video, working on that now but I cannot promise that tonight :cheers:

Louis

I guess now it makes sense as to why W2W got a higher baseline dyno number. They must have let the car completely cool down before strapping it to the dyno.

The rating is with all STOCK components - once you remove manifolds and install headers, output will change. Not rocket science.

I'm not surprised at all with the power jump with headers. I said this earlier. Think about it kids - 427 cubes with some of the slickest heads on the market. With a proper tune and headers, 500 rwhp and tq is easily met. Add a cam, and 550 rwhp is a breeze. My 415 LT5 makes 483 rwtq, and 555 rwhp - with 12 extra cubes and heads that flow just as well, we can expect some huge numbers with a cam/tune/headers. This car is a monster! :thumbs:

10.7%

If I did it right, the difference between the 3rd pull and the 1st pull for the 1st pull to equal the 3rd pull's FWHP would only be a 10.7% loss. Which would put the cold stock engines RWHP at 451 for a cold pull. (451/.893=505.04 if the 10.7 stays constant) So lets take the 451 and do the 12.5% average loss and we get 515 FWHP, still close to the certified tolerances.

Wow, I need sleep, and this car is going to keep me excited for a while tonight. :D I don't know if that math made any sense, if it is wrong, please don't grill me, it is just my mind working the numbers as it does so often and I desparately need sleep :crazy:

Goodnight all and thanks Lou for these dyno numbers!!!!

Joe aka Vetter

Hey Lou!

Nice job, great info, etc., etc. :D

So these are a custom set of LG headers with the modified 3" connection to the exhaust - otherwise they are the 1-3/4" model correct? Not a 1-7/8"? (I'm not even sure you guys make a 1-7/8" primary header?)

Also some people were speculating about big giant 2" primaries for the LS7 - is that too much header? Doesn't an NA motor need a touch of backpressure for good TQ?

Thanks!

Huh?? I know the rating is with stock components. My concern is with the initial STOCK dyno with the heat soked number. We all are already assuming this is a low number due to the heatsoak (which is why we are comparing the 3rd heatsoaked pull on the header swap to the original dyno numbers)

Sooooo. We all speculate that the Zs RWHP dyno will increase with a cold motor, which means either the drivetrain loss will drop (below 12.5%, unlikely with beefier parts, tires, etc.) or the (this) car is slightly underrated. :thumbs:

Lou lets see those cats come off!!! :thumbs: Just for a dyno run or two? :yesnod:

Or, since it was a pre production car, they may have had PCM tuning that the production cars have.

I am sure that tuning will be the "Bomb".

Cats, Now we run a good metal substrate cat which only seems to kill 3-5 rwhp. My personal car will be Catless.

Thanks.


LG

Looking forward for the video, Lou.

When I get my car, you will be the first to get a phone call to place an order..:thumbs:

With tuning the IAT heat has much less of an affect on the power.

Our race car makes the best power on the 3rd pull even with the extra heat.

These cars will also be less affected by heat when they are traveling down the road.

I just didn't want to put the BIG number up without some explaination because I know that there will not be a 40 hp increase with just headers. I could be wrong though

We shall see when these cars have some time to get delivered around the country.

Also, I will have another car here this week or Monday to get a better base line number from.

LG

PS, I don't think 12.5 is the correct number. And from our dyno tests over the years the percentage changes through out the pull. We have compared engine graphs to chassis graphs from the same engine and have seen (on a race car) any where from 11% to 14%. And that is a race car with straight cut and modified gears, lightened parts, 5" diameter clutches etc.

We have no idea how much the big stroker crank is affecting the rwhp numbers, nor do we know what the big 19inch tires and wheels are draging from the rear wheel numbers.

So, in effect, We just don't know yet.

But stay tuned and we all will find our over the next year or so.

LG

Thats good to know, bet you can't wait for the tuning software.
Definately :thumbs:
I know how some are quick to raise that "flag" :D Maybe with some tuning that 40 is not out of the question :thumbs: Good luck with it all and if I can make it up there I will most definately stop by and thanks for taking the time and explaining everything!!! Top notch, Lou! :yesnod:

Great info, Lou. Keep it coming. :thumbs:

Will do, thanks again :thumbs: Goodnight all!

Very impressive LG!!

Sign me up for:

1. LG Longtubes with cats and all sensor hookups;

2. Intake that will not unduly suck water or dirt;

3. Mufflers with no resonance (like Corsa Touring) (or stock if they will work) and not too loud;

4. PCM tuning on the dyno on my car in California!

5. Special CF Group Buy Rate!

My car should be here in 10-14 days! :chevy

I am "IN"!!! :reddevil :reddevil

{I already sent you and email with my contact information}

40hp and you wasn't happy with the results :D Way to go LG... Can't wait to see the cam results

I'm with Mako7!! Car should be here in 3-4 weeks and that would be perfect..!! :cheers:

-D

Just for fun, I pulled the air filter out and did a quick pull. Engine was warm But the car has been sitting for over 30 minutes.

Halltech, where is that high flow CAI when you need one.

What a nice car.

LG

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...6%20%20Z06.JPG

They are high flow cats but we get them directly from the manufacturer rather than Random.

they seem to work well. We will pull the cats off and make a couple of pulls tomorrow.

Thanks
Lou g

Excellent . Now you guys can shut up and spend time with your wives .

Damn,
Amazing how you can have almost 500rwhp with just a set of headers,
on a totally stock car!

lou.....

cough cough cough....nitrous kit.... :)

:yesnod:

Pretty darn good gains there, but I am confused by this statement. Isn't it more likely that heat soak is just setting in and the power loss is real. Many other engines (the LT5 comes to mind) are notorious for "losing power" on the dyno as the plenum heats up with continuous pulls.

Excellent numbers!! I think 1 7/8" headers or headers with stepped 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" primaries should be tried on this motor, though.

Lou, do you know for a fact that pre-production cars have "modified" tuning? I don't think this is a fair comment at this time, as current GM test fleet vehicles have test numbers that line up very nicely with real world cars. In fact, the current C6 has many owners besting the magazine tests.

Todd

WOW! You and Jim need to get together and present a package. I will be in when I get one in December. Can you make a package that does not void the GM warrenty?

RPM peak HP range
 

In a drag race, when should I shift? All the mags have said 7000 rpm's but if I read your graph correctly it should be less for max performance.

LOU's Crew Rocks !

This is a 500+ RWHP car when the tune gets honed. Give you guys 3-4 months ... and that computer will sing a BADDAZZ song.

Drag racing take it right to the red line - 7K. Even though you've gone a split second past max power, your bringing the next gear in close to max and that's the quickest way to get down the track. An ideal run would hit red line in every gear and red line high gear right in the traps.

wow...we are so lucky to have tuners such as LG to r@d these cars for us. This is going to be one heck of a car....LG is in my opion @the top of the clazz :cheers:

This is INSANE!! :willy:

Get a LG Motorsports "Kit", maybe a mild cam, and perhaps a nitrous set-up, and have a mild daily-driving low 10 sec, road course incinerating, 25mpg MONSTER!!! :party:

I imagine there are a few concerned Viper owners reading this. :eek:

Yes ... you know it.... this kind of news is a SHOT HEARD ROUND THE WORLD. The # of hits these LG threads are getting proves its wide dissemination to the autoworld.

Talk about some great press for Lou and his crew !!!! His header business will rocket ahead.

LOL :lol:

It’s amusing to me that so many of you guys are so surprised, shocked really to see these numbers.

I’ve been saying it all along: ~500rwHP with bolt ons. (some nice 1 7/8 headers, intake, tuning, no cats perhaps) ~550rwHP with cam, ~600rwHP with full out heads/cam.
Why was it so hard to believe? :confused:

Similar numbers have been achieved by 427ci LSx motors for a looong time now, and LS7 is even better, so why wouldn’t it. It just makes sense. :yesnod:

Video....video....video.... :D

OK I have a couple of Q's

1. Let's say that it is using 91 octane instead of 93? What would be the HP difference?

2. Was this a dynojet or mustang? The other guy got 454 rwhp with a mustang dyno.

Great number 40+ hp with half an exhaust AMAZING.

1. Where is the video?
2. Where is the video?

What does it sound like and can I crew for you at Laguna?

Dam !!!!

Imagine what tuneing will do :yesnod:

What interest rate did you have in mind?

:thumbs:

Just As I thought
 

The stock exhaust maniford is a real impedement to making power ! When I saw the stock manifolds I knew these were going to be a problem .Fuel/air ratios closer to 13:1 will help as well. A mild cam change will surely get us 500++ RWHP Getting 60-80 additional RWHP should be relatively cheap :yesnod: :flag: :cheers: :party:

The most drivable package, in my opinion would use 1 3/4" headers until you get into a full blown race engine. And even with that, the LeMans C6-R Corvette uses 1 3/4" headers.

There is this mindset with headers that, "bigger is better" but you won't see even a Winston Cup NASCAR with big primaries.

It is all about flow, and these engines are still just air pumps. The exhaust port is the same size as the C5 LS6 engine and the valve size is still only a 1.6" valve. SO it would make no sense to put a header on where the pipe was bigger than the port. The only thing that would make sense would be a "Stepped header".

The Velocity of the exhaust will be maintained with the 1 3/4" Then the Z06 system goes back to a full 3" system from the engine back. Our system has always been a 3" system.

I will admit that a fully built 427, just like before the Z06, will benefit from a 1 7/8 header if the cylinder head is opened up to match the larger primary. But only in the higher rpm range. that is why the Lemans team runs 1 3/4" primaries. But as always the low end will be traded off.

Thanks. Didin't want to turn this into another header debate. The only thing we plan to do for the future is to build a stepped header sometime next year for bigger applications. I will favor power in the lower rpms always over a peak number from a big header. Do you see the torque at 2500??? over 400 rwtq from the instant the pedal hits the floor. And this is stock!

Thanks

Lou Gigliotti

I'm going to come right out and say it. When my car comes in, I'm going to run high 10 second 1/4 s with a stock motor, a set of these headers and a tune, as long as I can get a 60' time around 1.8

Mickey

Here are two photos of the stock Z06 exh manifold.

Note that the original LS1 gaskets will fit perfectly. then check out the small compressed outlet openings.

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...20manifold.JPG

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...nifold%202.JPG

Congrats on the new car and the already huge increase in power. Have a good time out in CA. Make sure you take the keys to your new hotrod. I know how the guys like to go on "test drives" :lol:

Randy

how did the car sound with the long tubes on?

Thanks for the info Lou! Looks like alot of potential in this engine---and I think "this baby feels very strong right out of the box!". I'll think about headers after I get used to the 405 to 505hp jump. Just curious on price for the headers and will the computer tune be available in the next few months? Thanks for posting---your input is always informative! :thumbs: :cheers:
----Damian

At what point will the RWHP be insignificant because the car will be unable to hook-up? I'm hoping not, but curious, that wheel hop will play a major issue. How is that dealt with (on stock tires)?

WE WANT VIDEOS!!

Amazing numbers, god, I better start saving my money

This car may go tens bone stock with sticky tires. Let us know when you get your car and I'll go with you.

:willy:

Why didn't you pull the cats as well !!!

Lou,

We know your really busy but we are dying to see and hear a video of the beast with your headers....... :cheers:

Hop? On a transverse leaf set up?

:bigears:

I had a '67 Camaro that got too way big for it's britches (built motor, M22 trans, racing clutch, solid motor mounts, etc with standard parallel single leaf set up :eek:), so don't talk to ME about wheel hop, 'cause when it comes to feeling hop, I'm the Easter Freakin' Bunny!!!! :lolg:

:lol: I have to plead total naivety on this - I know on the C5 and now the C6, it hops big time. Thats why I'm wondering how that wont be a problem on the Z, (presuming stock tires stay stock)...

Sorry, I was being a bit funny -- I know NOTHING about C5/C6 as I haven't driven or owned either (yet bwahahaha) but I have suffered it immensely on my old Camaro, and it was due primarily to spring windup, so with the transverse leaf, I would be surprised to hear of it. So if there is hop, I would love to hear about when it happens, and if a lot of people have it, and if anyone has methods to control. Could be coming from 'tweaking' the traverse springs sideways, or some other mechanism entirely... :thumbs:

Please post a video its starting to kill me :willy:

:iagree: That's exactly what the late, great, John Lingelfelter said at a drag racing seminar I went to a few years ago.

If you shift above power peak, you gain with torque multiplication of that gear. when you shift say from 2nd to 3rd, you need to caculate at what point (RPM) your torque x gear ratio in 2nd gear, falls below your torque x gear ratio in 3rd at the rpm that you drop to after the shift. Then that is where you will shift to max out the Torque Multiplication of the lower gear.

Thanks
Lou Gigliotti LGM

Ok Guys,

Until we can get some tuning software Cold air induction or slide a new cam in this car we are at some sort of a limit.

And I mean "Some Limit". This is more than we ever thought possible. We have a total of 71 miles on the car now.

REDLINE OIL's President Tim Kerrigan is the owner of this car. So there was no question that we were going to change the fluids to REDLINE. We changed the engine oil to Redline 5w-30. We changed the trans fluid to Redline D4 ATF, and the rear end got 75/90 gear lube with redline friction additive.

I then put about 2 miles on the car and pulled it back on the dyno.
(the car went to the dyno all by itself without me touching the wheel)

We gave it a cool down period and did some pulls.

The results are that we have hit a new high of:
492.2 rwhp 472.3 rwtq

The results that this new Z06 that GM has put out are nothing short of fantastic. The scary part is that it will probably get better with some proper break in miles. We did over 10 miles of dyno roller time which is usually very good break in time.

The other realization is the fact that when everyone gets LS-7 edit tuning software the bar will again be raised. how much, without going into the engine? I don't know. Of course the usual mods like cam and porting the heads, ported throttle bodies, cold air intakes etc will reap many advances.

I am looking forward to the arrival of my own Z06 so i can be a little more unforgiving with the parts we deem R & D parts. My car will be the "Mule" where we will find out what works ( I will have the cam of the week) and then we can impliment them in our customer cars.

so stay tuned.There are great cars.

Lou Gigliotti LGM

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...line%20oil.JPG

WOW!!!! Lou, was this with or without the filter? Thanks.

:willy: :willy: :willy: 492.2 rwhp 473.3 rwtq :willy: :willy: :willy:

Guy's just think...in say 12 months the r&d will so far from where we are now...These car's have so much potential....when it's time for mine ill know what mods to do.... :cheers:

492.2rwhp = 553.7 HP!!!!!!!!!!! (Assuming 12.5% driveloss -- 566HP @ 15%)

No kill stories please!

I know that is a rule here. Just curious why? Is it because the mods/owners of this board actually believe that, uhh, stuff... or is it for legal reasons?

I love the politically correct world we live in today. :ack:

Ok, I'll hush now and go back to pretending that we all keep it a mile per hour under the speed limit and never race! ;)

Actually, it is 579.05 flywheel at 15% and 562.51 at 12.5% (579.05 less 15% = 492.167 and 562.51 flywheel less 12.5% = 492.196). Easiest way to calculate flywheel hp from rearwheel is to just take the rear wheel hp let's say 492.2 and divide by .85 for the 15% loss and .875 for the 12.5% loss. There, you've made me exhaust my math knowledge.
:thumbs:

I wonder what the numbers will be once we get a cam, air box, underdrive pully, and electric water pump......Im guessing 530 rwhp....what do you guys think?

Small cam yes. Big cam 600 plus. :willy:

:willy: :willy: :willy:

The video will be up tomorrow

They are editing the footage to make it a little more professional
Thanks

Lou G

SIMPLY INCREDIBLE GAINS FOR HEADERS ONLY!! GREAT WORK LOU! :cheers: :thumbs: :flag:

I will be the first one to take credit for our headers but we all know that this car starts out with more than we all thought.

It was just waiting for someone to let it loose.



Thanks
Lou G