Muncie close ratio vs wide
Are all early muncie 4spd close ratios, M-21s ? And wide ratios, M-20s? Or did both models have close and wide ratios available? I guess I am asking the same question about the later M-22s also? :thumbs:
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I don't know why I'm explaining this for the umpteenth time, I guess I'm just bored.
In the beginning (63) when the Muncie replaced the Borg-Warner T-10, the 4sp transmission option was M20. Period. Depending on engine/rear gear ratio, the car was delivered with either a wide ratio or close ratio Muncie. The option was still M20 for the 4sp. In 1966, the two ratios were broken down into seperate option codes: M20(wide ratio) and M21(close ratio). The Heavy Duty 4sp transmission was the M22-----------------AND IT WAS CLOSE RATIO ONLY! The M22 was first used in the 65 model year, but such a very small quantity (maybe 20-40 delivered) were delivered that they are ultra rare, and it appears they were only delivered in 396 cars. The close ratio Muncies have ALWAYS had the 2.20:1 first gear ratio, but the 63-65 and 66-74 wide ratio ratio Muncies had slightly different first gear ratios. The 63-65 had a 2.56:1 first gear ratio and the 66-74 had a 2.52:1 first gear ratio. Tom Parsons |
Originally Posted by DZAUTO
(Post 1573496456)
I don't know why I'm explaining this for the umpteenth time, I guess I'm just bored.
In the beginning (63) when the Muncie replaced the Borg-Warner T-10, the 4sp transmission option was M20. Period. Depending on engine/rear gear ratio, the car was delivered with either a wide ratio or close ratio Muncie. The option was still M20 for the 4sp. In 1966, the two ratios were broken down into seperate option codes: M20(wide ratio) and M21(close ratio). The Heavy Duty 4sp transmission was the M22-----------------AND IT WAS CLOSE RATIO ONLY! The M22 was first used in the 65 model year, but such a very small quantity (maybe 20-40 delivered) were delivered that they are ultra rare, and it appears they were only delivered in 396 cars. The close ratio Muncies have ALWAYS had the 2.20:1 first gear ratio, but the 63-65 and 66-74 wide ratio ratio Muncies had slightly different first gear ratios. The 63-65 had a 2.56:1 first gear ratio and the 66-74 had a 2.52:1 first gear ratio. Tom Parsons As long as people are joining the Forum to gather new knowledge "new to them". That's why I joined. Then I am sure the cycle will continue untill there are no new members and everyone knows everything. Then the Forum will have very little purpose. You have to admit the Muncie thing is a bit confusing. I was pretty sure about the M-22. That exsisted in my generation. The others were a bit before my time.:cheers: |
Originally Posted by 1sttexan
(Post 1573496806)
Thanks for the info. Didn't mean to put you out. Since you have been a member here since 2001. I am sure you have had to explain many things, many times over. If you didn't, someone else would.
As long as people are joining the Forum to gather new knowledge "new to them". That's why I joined. Then I am sure the cycle will continue untill there are no new members and everyone knows everything. Then the Forum will have very little purpose. You have to admit the Muncie thing is a bit confusing. I was pretty sure about the M-22. That exsisted in my generation. The others were a bit before my time.:cheers: |
Originally Posted by 1sttexan
(Post 1573495993)
Are all early muncie 4spd close ratios, M-21s ? And wide ratios, M-20s? Or did both models have close and wide ratios available? I guess I am asking the same question about the later M-22s also? :thumbs:
http://www.5speeds.com/muncie2.htm |
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Jim |
Mike (1sttexan), I've only been a member for a year and can relate to veteran members dealing with same old, same old. It gets kinda boring going over the same damn thing, and that's what the search option of the forum is for. Punch in your key words and see what pops up. Most stuff has been thrashed a lot, so it's on there.
I'd give the same advice to all members, especially new ones......PLEASE SPARE US OLD DOGS, we're looking for new bones to chew. Make our day, challenge our aging minds.Thanks. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^http://s6.tinypic.com/1j26ow_th.jpg^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
Tom doesn't really mind. He's one of the best sources of information on the forum.
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:D What's REALLY important, it that people are still interested enough to ask, rather than just stumble blindly through the night! :D
Tom Parsons |
Originally Posted by DZAUTO
(Post 1573503958)
:D What's REALLY important, it that people are still interested enough to ask, rather than just stumble blindly through the night! :D
Tom Parsons |
So I have an original 65 L76 coupe. I would think that I would have the close ratio tranny with that engine and 4.11's in the back. What is the easiest way to double check that and please refrain from sending any ICBM's in my direction....:D:D
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Originally Posted by kerrmudgeon
(Post 1573502042)
Mike (1sttexan), I've only been a member for a year and can relate to veteran members dealing with same old, same old. It gets kinda boring going over the same damn thing, and that's what the search option of the forum is for. Punch in your key words and see what pops up. Most stuff has been thrashed a lot, so it's on there.
I'd give the same advice to all members, especially new ones......PLEASE SPARE US OLD DOGS, we're looking for new bones to chew. Make our day, challenge our aging minds.Thanks. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^http://s6.tinypic.com/1j26ow_th.jpg^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
here ya go again!!
Muncie 4 speed spline, groove and tooth count characteristics. Type/Year Input Spline Input Groove Input Gear Tooth Count Cluster Gear Tooth Count Output Spline Gear Ratio M20: 1963 - 65 10 none 24 29-22-19-17 27 Note 1 M20: 1966 - 70 10 2 21 25-22-19-17 27 Note 2 M20: 1971 - 74 26 2 21 25-22-19-17 32 Note 2 M21: 1963 - 70 10 1 26 27-22-19-17 27 Note 3 M21: 1971 - 74 26 1 26 27-22-19-17 32 Note 3 M22: 1965 - 70 10 none 26 27-22-19-17 27 Note 3 M22: 1971 - 72 26 none 26 27-22-19-17 32 Note 3 Note 1: M-20 gear ratio: 1st 2.56:1, 2nd 1.91:1, 3rd 1.48:1, 4th direct Note 2: M-20 gear ratio: 1st 2.52:1, 2nd 1.88:1, 3rd 1.46:1, 4th direct, Rev 2.59:1. Note 3: M-21/22 gear ratio: 1st 2.20:1, 2nd 1.64:1, 3rd 1.28:1, 4th direct, Rev 2.27:1 Effective October 21, 1968, an additional letter was added to the plant prefix number to help identify the gear ratios in Muncie transmissions. The additional letter codes as follows: Muncie 3 speed Manual Muncie 4 speed manual transmissions Suffix 1st gear ratio A 3.03:1 B 2.42:1 Suffix 1st gear ratio A 2.52:1 wide range B 2.20:1 close range C 2.20:1 Rock Crusher |
Wrong again. It fails to recognize the CLOSE RATIO M20's. Please refer to Tom's post above. Now I know why he gets tired of this crap.
Jim |
Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw
(Post 1573504144)
So I have an original 65 L76 coupe. I would think that I would have the close ratio tranny with that engine and 4.11's in the back. What is the easiest way to double check that and please refrain from sending any ICBM's in my direction....:D:D
Tom Parsons |
And then there is Gene Holtz in Edmond, OK, who has a 1965 FI car with the ORIGINAL, numbers matching Muncie in the car. The input shaft has 26 splines and 2 grooves around the input splines.
Explain that! First correct answer gets a gold star! :thumbs: Tom Parsons |
Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw
(Post 1573504144)
So I have an original 65 L76 coupe. I would think that I would have the close ratio tranny with that engine and 4.11's in the back. What is the easiest way to double check that and please refrain from sending any ICBM's in my direction....:D:D
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Originally Posted by 1snake
(Post 1573505355)
Wrong again. It fails to recognize the CLOSE RATIO M20's. Please refer to Tom's post above. Now I know why he gets tired of this crap.
Jim |
Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw
(Post 1573504144)
So I have an original 65 L76 coupe. I would think that I would have the close ratio tranny with that engine and 4.11's in the back. What is the easiest way to double check that and please refrain from sending any ICBM's in my direction....:D:D
Jim |
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