At what point do you ask - how much $ is too much $ to dump in a C4?
 

With the Obomination of an economy, the low values of the C4s, I know a lot of us are parting out their cars while others are still sinking a lot of $ into engines, paint and interiors. Ok, maintenance is maintenance and I believe you should keep them running well. No question.

I don't consider my situation the same as a Getto Baster that puts $5K in 24" tires and rims into a $1500 rust bucket, but...

I know for sure that I have lots of hidden horsepower in my setup and I have been trying to learn how to tune the L98 but as Dirty Harry said, "A good man has got to know his limitations." After I almost blew the engine up tinkering with the tune (thankfully, no real damage done), I figured I better let a professional do it instead.

Got some recommendations, and contacted a highly recommended (from this forum and others) local tuner. I figured it was a $500 job based on posts I have found. My draw dropped when he told me that the base tune was $600 but my setup could go well over $1k!

Now I don't besmirch what the guy charges. He has a backlog of 3 weeks of work so he deserves the $ he gets. He is good.

So I think to myself, ok, I'll pay and watch the guy and maybe learn a thing or two about tuning so that next time I'll know more. But no, this guy will not let me hang around. I must drop off the car and pick it up the next day. So much for calling this tune a "class".

I found myself asking why am I sinking possibly a $1000 for a dyno tune into a car worth maybe $5k? What also scared me is that if he tunes it right to the edge, I'll end up blowing the engine at some point then I'll be scraping it for parts.

Kind of back to the thought this morning that I might rather just save the $ up for a C6 instead. I see that the prices of C6's have gotten below the $30K mark and are getting within my reach and dropping with winter approaching and the new model coming out.

Maybe instead of sinking $1K into a dyno tune I should just continue to drive it like I stole it, but not to its full potential, save up $ and when I find a nice C6 in a year or two just trade up.

This question is not for the race guys, but how do you guys justify sinking big $ into small value daily drivers/cruisers? Race guys I get the need for speed and the old saying goes, "The question is not how much will it cost but how fast do you want to go?" But I am not a racer.

I think the question about spending money on a car getting onwards of 20 years old is how much does one love the car and how much has one already spent on the car.

Some people continue to sink money as it has been already over capitalized and they will not get back the money spent. Others simply move their cars and keep spending as a passion and a way of life.

With my 1990 I have to say its a combination of both. My situation is different to yours as I bought a C4 vette as a hobby car as I already had a 2005 model Ford Falcon as the reliable sedan.

If I was in the US and all things being equal, I would aim for a clean low mileage a few year old C6 or a special edition C5 Z06.

$600 tuneup?

Find a new mechanic.

:iagree:

Makes you wonder WHY he does not want you there. Maybe he does not know what he's doing and will use trial and error? Maybe he evaluates each step by taking it around the block with his foot to the floor? Maybe his dyno does not work? If you are not comfortable with the guy find someone else.

Remember - YOU are the boss, it's YOU that is hiring HIM to do the work.

I guess it all depends on how long you intend to keep your car and what you think of it. I personally like the C4 body style and driving position better than the C5 or C6. It's a sports car and not a GT car. I prefer the Vette trademark hidden headlights so a C6 is out anyways. Creature comforts are secondary to the driving experience. I really enjoy engine work and my C4 will be faster than any stock Vette except the ZR-1 and will have cost me a lot less and make me a lot happier.

I don't intend to get rid of it so anything I put into it will pay for itself by pleasing me and increasing reliability (maybe not the engine) and comfort in the long run.

whe the money you have in a car equals its sellable price and you are still not happy with it, get rid of it

As far as the tune goes on these older cars,the code isn't locked- you can just look at it after he is done and do a binary compare. $600 is a lot-I've had top guys do mitsu evo tunes for 4 bills and newer ecm's have more to adjust. I would not pay more than what C6 guys are paying for that work.

Keeping a car within 10%-15% of stock hp is most economical and is mostly maintenance and maybe some non-stock exhaust and a few bits here and there. If you want 400 hp, C5's are cheap now. smog legal supercharger with 500hp?-C5 again. You can also get 400 hp with a dead smooth idle in the ZR-1 C4, but there is a premium to pay for that as well.

definitely try to stay stock hp if you want less $ hassles and good resale.

I would say that if you're not a racer and the car is a daily driver/cruiser, don't worry about the fact that there's hidden horsepower in your l98. It has plenty of horsepower for those activities in stock form. Do normal maintenance, leave it alone, and you'll have cheap fun in a cool car.

That's what I'm doing, and I love it. My friend's MazdaSpeed3 can beat my stock '85 in any type of racing, but I wouldn't even consider trading with him. I think my old c4 is a ton of fun, and his new Mazda doesn't do much for me.

If you really want more horsepower, you are right that it's going to cost money-- probably pushing that of a used c6. If you don't do the work yourself you could easily end up spending more on the c4 than the used c6 would have cost and, if it's not done right, still not have as good of performance as the c6. Lose-lose.

This is an age-old question for any old classic car, and only you can answer it. Here is one way to analyse it:

1. Do you absolutely love the c4 and really just DD/cruise? Then leave it alone, save your money, and enjoy! (That's my choice.)

2. Do you not care so much about the c4, but want hp? Save for the c6.

3. Do you absolutely love the c4 and really want it to have more HP? Then spend the money and either do it yourself or make sure it's done right (and don't be shocked when the total cost is more than the c6).

I could think of others to add to the list, but I think those three about cover it for what you're asking.

But remember, there is no one answer to your question-- just think through what your goals are before you do anything and read this forum regularly to help you weigh those goals and the methods to get to them. There are a number of wise people here that will help you out-- but give it time. Search the archives. Follow the debates. More time spent thinking, reading, and pondering will pay dividends over a snap decision that was ill-considered.

That's what I did-- I went back and forth on what I wanted and was seriously considering all three of the possibilities I listed above. I would firmly settle on one, then a month later change my mind based on new information that I gleaned here. Then change my mind again the next month. Then again. Then again...

Over time, I finally converged to the conclusion that choice #1 was really the best one for me, pulled the trigger, and so far I couldn't be happier with my decision. I'm sure you will have the same experience, even if you make a different choice.

Good Luck!

In answer to your question "at what point do you ask", usually you ask it after you've dumped too much into the car...

No way I'd spend $1,000 on a tune (not tuneup) unless they were going to uncork like 50whp safely.

Is your car so modded that you can't use the stock tune or a mail-order tune safely?

That is the question that should be ask for a typical dd. But for a vette it depends on how much you like your car and what it may or may not need.

One could look at it this way. You can put a lot of cash into your car and still not touch what a C6 will cost, and the C6 will still have issues. I've come to realize if you don't have issues with a vette and throw money into it, it is the exception and not the rule.

So it always comes down to how much you like your car, or are you ready to move on.

Many mechs won't let you into the shop and watch them, especially vette owners who they consider anal. So either you trust him and think his price is fair, or you don't.

I don't know how much "hidden power" that a tune will "unlock" lurks in a L98, I suspect, not that much. Be leary of dyno results, because they are easily adjusted to fit various conditions. Most of the power would be at the top end of the rpm spectrum, and therefore not be readily apparent on the street in regular driving. But, often it's like an old lady going to a salon and getting the works, it might not actually do much for her, but if SHE feels better.......

Very common practice to fluff dyno results...


Get ahold of Mseven if you want a great tune and you wont get hosed.

$600-$1000 is a joke


PS if the car is stock dont waste your time on a tune
For a shop to convince you theres a ton of hidden power by unlocking somehting, BS. Maybe a slight improvement thats about it. Lots of mods yes you better.

on spending I never keep track. Make the car the way I want it, to say I cant spend 1/5 cars value because it doesnt make sense...well thats nuts , this is a hobby so financial sense means nothing. About happiness.


If you really like the car put 20k in it who cares.

Lots of good advice here and I appreciate it.

Just to be clear, not a "regular" tune-up. I do that myself. Plugs, wires, etc. not an issue. He is doing a dyno tune of the ECM to unlock hidden HP.


I am thinking the above is the best advice... I am not a racer, it is not a DD, it is a cruiser...

Yes, long ago (decade) I supercharged it, and earlier this year I ripped out all the intercoolers and install meth injection. Last dyno session was in the early 2000-2001. According to the old seat of the pants, it really liked the mehtanol :D but no dyno numbers to back it up.

I agree with Oldalaskaman. Maintenance items to keep it in good running condition, OK; mods for elusive and mostly marginal gains in horsepower not so much.

I'm afraid I don't see the logic in spending a lot of dough to go faster unless you are a regular at your local track. I find very little opportunity to use the OEM speed potential of this car in everyday use. One rare occasion was a few days ago when I found a straight stretch of mountain road and clear sightlines so that I could punch it passing a logging truck and hold it to 100mph or so before slowing for a curve.

Fun, but only for a few seconds and only rarely possible on public roads; and a combination of happy circumstances so infrequent that it doesn't make sense to me to invest heavily to go marginally faster when the opportunity does arise again.

I know this is pure heresy here and I will get flamed to well-done steak status for saying it...but if you really, really have a need for speed you can spend a few grand for a bone-stock mid-2000s-model Suzuki GSXR1000, tested by a bike mag at 0-100 in under 5 seconds.

I love my 'Vette for what it is, not what it will never be. And it will never be "fast" in any real sense of the word. Why spend thousands to enhance performance from "OK" to "not bad," or even more thousands to reach "pretty good"? The dollars-to-thrill ratio does not compute.

I think that's a really good point.

In the brief time that I've been looking at Corvette modding, I have seen evidence that many people who don't race make mods to their cars for more "acceleration," meaning seat-of-the-pants, daily driving, low-end torque but, not realising that not all "acceleration" is the same, make mods based on what the drag racers do in order to see big effects on 1/4 mile times. Because acceleration is acceleration, right?.

When completed they are unhappy because they don't see any benefit (since they don't go to the track-- the only place where they would see it) and find the car is actually slower in day-to-day driving because, in reality, acceleration is not acceleration. They conclude they didn't do enough (or do it right), spend more money, and make it even worse.

I'm pretty sure I've read threads in the past where this was going on, and I haven't even been here that long, so I would bet that it must happen fairly often.

I'm unlikely to ever mod my car, but if I ever did, I would likely do it in the way GREGGPENN did it. All torque and not a worry about 1/4 mile times (perfect for me since I don't race). I thought his philosophy of thoughtfully identifying his goal and charting a course of action based on that was highly instructive (and resulted in his complete happiness with the final results).

If you *do* want better 1/4 mile times, there is obviously a lot of discussion about that here, too.

Again, information like that is what makes this forum so helpful. Use it and you can learn a lot in a short time.

I'm probably not the guy that should respond to this thread. I've owned a C2, C3 and two C5s, including a '03 Z06. We now have a great C4 that we use for fun and car shows, absolutely no racing. We like the C4 more than either of the C5s and we do not care for the C6s at all. Last year we had a LS3 "hot cam" engine installed so between the purchase price (3.5 years ago), the new engine and other parts, and the overall repairs, we are into our car around $50K and do not regret it for one second. We love the car and decided we will always have it. It is unique and when we go out with our club here in Phoenix, our car gets more attention than any of the C6s. It all depends upon what you want out of your vette. We could always go and buy a new C6 and just be like most of the other club members, but no one will have another C4 like ours.

$1000.00 I could think of lot other thing to spend the money instead of a tune.

It a DD stock motor why.
As for me My car needed a rebuild as long as I was going to do this mite as well hop it up It also a DD fun car NO I did not have to hop it up it a DD but it my hobby and I know I never get my money back out of the car going into this.

But sure nice knowing now when a Toyota Camery or a Mazda 3 pulls up to the side of me they will not smoke me either it a Vett American Muscle Car.

I was wacthing a show on TV where they lined up a Ferrari 308 next tot a Toyota Camery and the Toyota Smoked it it was funny but sad at the same time.

I think C4orce 2 nailed it. I feel the same way bout my vette and Chopper. Just started with mods on the vette. I have put thousands in my Chopper,worth every penny to me. I would never get my money back out of it,but then again it will never be sold.

Only you can answer that question. How much are you will to invest? How much do I make? Can I really afford this? Wold it be cheaper to buy a new one than to fix it? Can I make it project?

One thing for sure, you need to learn how to DIY the basic stuff. It will save you tons of cash.

It was the plan when I purchased my C4 is to fix it up when give it to my daugther starts dating around in her late 20's (LOL) I give her the car to pass it down to her kid when the day comes she 9 years old now so I still have time to enjoy the car for a while longer.