If you weld - need advice
 

I want to teach myself to weld & know zero about it.

First off I won't be welding roll cages or making alum radiators etc.

This is just for fun, small household/garage repairs, kids bikes, maybe exhaust, ok?

Keep the price down, say under 500 inc helmet & eq.

Do I want oxy/acet? TIG, what brand, size, duty cycle, but not too much on the technicalities, remember I don't know how it works yet. Pretty advanced mechanically though so I should pick it up w/ a little practice.

Thanks.

:thumbs:

I don't think you're going to find a do-all welder that's of good quality for less than $800.

Personally I have a Lincoln Easy MIG 180. It's a great welder for thin to thick-ish welding. I've welded everything from exhaust pipe and sheet metal to roll cage. It's capable to do up to 3/8" metal. Plus, you can get a bottle or use the gasless core wire, but I'm not a fan of that stuff.

You can also get an Aluminum gun addon. I think it's a fantastic all around welder.

Cons, you can't do chromoly, it takes 220v power (Use the dryer outlet).

If you want pretty welds, TIG is the only way to go. Unfortunately a decent TIG is $2k+.

If you really want to learn to weld, I would suggest starting out with oxy/acetylene. It is such a slow process, you can actually watch the puddle form and see it move around. It also forces you to learn hand control.

I think it's too easy to put down a decent appearing weld with MIG and not know whether or not you got decent penetration.

Once you learn the basics, step up to a 110V MIG system from Lincoln, Miller, or Hobart. The 110V units don't have the current for welding thick material, but for the projects you listed they would work well. They have the added advantage of being relatively portable. While I much prefer to use shielding gas (true MIG welding) the flux core wire is great for welding outdoors where there will always be a breeze.

If you are doing any sort of arc welding, do yourself a favor and get an auto darkening helmet. It's a lot easier than trying to flip down the helmet while holding the gun in the right place.

Ken

I went out and bought a longevity multi-process welder about 2 years ago, having never even seen a TIG welder and knowing nothing about the process. I build custom motorcycles in my spare time, and learning to weld was the next step. I bought a 250a AC/DC TIG/ARC/40a plasma cut machine and I love it. I paid around $1600 for the machine, but you really don't need more than 180a if you're not doing much aluminum. I considered MIG, but in hindsight I'm really glad I got the TIG, I use it all the time for all kinds of projects. Since getting my vette I made a custom exhaust and mounting system, my own, big guy sized harness bar, custom camera mount, aluminum race ramps, custom battery box for my trailer and I beefed up the underside of the trailer because it was flexing, and on and on. I taught myself to weld, 100% from youtube videos and www.weldingtipsandtricks.com. That guy's website is the best and all the info you need is there. It takes a lot of practice but once you got it, you'll love it. Longevity and Everlast both have affordable TIG and MIG machines, but my vote is spend the bucks and get a TIG, you will not regret it. I also taught myself to weld with oxy acetylene but the penetration sucks so you'll be stuck with just really thin stuff and if the part is large forget it unless you want to fool around with pre-heating. It's also very difficult to do in confined spaces. I'm happy with my Longevity, and I use it constantly. I've also read a lot of good stuff about the Everlast machines. Used Millers or Lincolns are good because you can get parts and stuff locally so you can't go wrong if you can find one in your price range. If you have any questions PM me.

If you are going to do aluminum, you need at least a 200a machine.

http://www.longevity-inc.com/product...IG-Welders.php

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/pr...tegory-58.html

For home use, I'd suggest an oxy/ace setup. A basic torch set will have cutting and welding tips. Cutting will be steel only (generally not stainless) but welding can be steel, stainless and aluminum (with the right fluxes and fillers). Brazing is also popular.

The best part (IMHO) is the heating ability. I can't count how many times I've encountered some stubborn bolt or seized part that would not budge no matter how many curse words I used. A few minutes of persuasion from the "blue wrench" and they see things my way. As an auto hobbyist, this is the main reason I have a torch set.

MIG/TIG are usually the more preferred welding processes due to speed, flexibility and overall cost, though.

Best thing you could do would be to sign up for a welding course at a local community college. then make up your mind what you want to buy

I was in the same boat you are about 8 years ago. I too wanted to learn to weld but didn't really know where to start. I took a class at one of the community colleges here in the DFW area. It was the best thing I did. It was a one semester, non credit class that taught you Oxy/acytelene welding and brazing, Stick, MIG and TIG. Got you exposed enough to all the modalities and educated enough to understand how they worked and what they could and could not do. The rest is practice from there.

After that I bought myself a TIG welder because I wanted to do mostly aluminum at the time but also because you can do ANY metal you want, in theory. Mine was 1800 bucks but I did have to wire in a 240v outlet for it.

For 800 bucks you can get yourself a very nice MIG welder and tank. If you want to do aluminum, you can add in a spool gun, just make sure you buy something that's a brand name and not something off brand so you will be able to find parts and stuff for it. Also, if you think at anytime you want to do aluminum, then when you go to get a tank, it will need to be 100% Argon and not the Argon/CO2 75/25 mixture. You will not be able to weld aluminum with a 75/25 tank.

The one thing the gas setup has the other don't is as Dale stated above, not much can fight the "blue wrench". Plus with the Oxy/Acytelene, you can also cut steel as well and that comes in handy sometimes.

Jay

:iagree:

I say a small MIG welder will get the job done for the kinds of things you are talking about. A 150 to 180 amp welder should keep you within your budget. I've always used Lincoln but Miller has a good reputation as well. Both are affordable and parts/supplies are available at Home Depot/Lowe's.

I picked up a Lincoln Electric Pro-Mig 135 and it's a starter MIG welder. Watched videos online and got the tank of shielding gas. Put's down nice solid welds. Took practice for sure, but I had a good time. Welded my D rings on the trailer and a number of other projects. Plenty of books out there to build stuff using welding.

This was me this winter. I have done some arc welding, mig welding and oxy/act gas welding.
I went through the debates with a friend who does a fair amount of welding saying you have to buy Miller or Lincoln if you want a real welder.
I wanted a TIG welder since it can weld almost anything and I had some specific needs for aluminum.
I'm so glad I stuck with the TIG and didn't settle for a "good" MIG welder. I bought the 200DX Everlast and have been very happy with it. It takes awhile to get used to it and aluminum is harder to weld than steel. Steel with a TIG is very easy if you have the basics of welding. Aluminum is a whole different story but with a few hours of scrap metal and practice I can make strong welds and have done a fair amount of fabrication for the Vette. I still wouldn't attempt to weld up my radiator but just about anything else. The aluminum welds aren't always as pretty as some of the stuff you pay for but I did it myself and it is strong.

You should seriously look into the community college welding classes. That is a great route to go. Even if you already have bought a welder I would do that.
The other benefit to having the welder at home is practice and then when you go to class you have a human to ask questions. You might even be able to bring your welder and learn how to use all the features.

The guys at Everlast are really nice and very helpful. I call them occasionally to get tips and advice about things I want to buy and how to do things. They have a decent forum and respond very quick. One of the guys I deal with gave me his cell number and I call when needed.
The best price is directly from their website.

I am a self-taught welder and I do structural welding too as a hobbiest. I have made and unfortunately tested 3 rollcages and built trailers too. I have oxy, mig, and tig. IMO welding is not hard to learn. It takes reading the basics then practice, practice, practice to get good. There are tricks to learn but mostly it is practice. For the most general hobby kind of things I would say:
MIG with or without gas (flux is how structural steel is welded on buildings. It is strong) buy Lincoln or Miller ONLY
auto darkening helmet good quality not harbor freight and tool
Quality fluxcore mig wire or standard mig wire like from lincoln
220volt welder. Don't waste your time with 110V. They do work sort of...well no they don't. You can wire your garage for 220V using 2 110 circuits...google it but have a real electrician do it. Adding the gas bottle and regulator will add to your costs. You can always use fluxcore first then us gas later. Without gas is just one less thing to worry about as a newbie. After all once you start welding then you need to buy leather gloves, wire brushes,antispatter spray,cutting tools, tube benders, fishmouthing tools, and suddenly your C5 has a rollcage in it.

****Remember this caution: Do not weld on metal cleaned off with "brake cleaner"
Phosgene gas can be created with some cleaners and a small amount can kill you.

welders
 

How can you trust someone that has to hide their face just to do their job?

Seriously, look around for a community college that has a basic intro to welding. the easiest process to learn in Mig, but you will find that you will have weld quality problems, mostly lack of fusion. OK for putting fenders on trailers and such, but for items you you are betting your life on, find someone that knows what they are doing. It takes a lot of hand eye skill to give the weld integrity you need, and just like a book, a weld can't be judged by the cover.

Besides weld quality, there are weld design things to understand, where a weld is and the shape of the weld in a structure matter just as much as weld quality.

:thumbs::thumbs:

:iagree: I picked up a Lincoln Pro-Mig 140 at Lowe's a couple years ago and I pretty much did the self-teaching thing. The welder came with a neat DVD that showed basic techniques. I also got some pointers from a few guys at my shop. There are also some good instructional videos on the Interweb if you do some searching. There are a couple of good welding forums for both Miller and Hobart users but that can work for Lincoln owners too. The Lincoln website has some good instructional stuff too.

A 110v welder really needs a 20 amp circuit to fully use its capabilities. It would be a good idea to have a single dedicated 20A circuit that will be used by only the welder. Most small welders have a short power cord; the 110v units can use a 25' 12-gauge extension cord. If all you have is a standard 15A circuit, don't use any other device plugged into that circuit when welding. You won't get the full power of the welder with extra load on the circuit.

To start, you don't really need a tank of C-25. It can be expensive to buy a tank, and some gas supply places can be picky about the age of a tank. Any new welder should come with a small spool of both types of wire. Keep in mind that when you use C-25, you need shelter from any wind. You don't want the gas to be blown off the work. Flux-core takes some cleanup work, but there will be slightly more penetration with that type of wire.

Small welders will work fine for welding steel up to 3/16 in thickness with proper preparation. You can weld 1/4" steel but you may have to make two or more passes.

Just an FYI. I paid 100 bucks for the tank filled with gas. Flux core is fine, but I don't like to do the cleanup splatter. With a little experience with gas, there is little to cleanup.

Bingo, that is what I did about 8 years ago.
I ended up buying a Miller 250 TIG machine afterwards. Any of the welding is not really that difficult, there is more prep time then actual welding time. You have to know which rods to use on what and just practice and practice and just weld junk together. Soon enough you could do a cage or radiator. You can't go cheap though, I bough a suitcase TIG machine about 6 months ago and just used it for the first time, wow looks like a kid welded with it. It is made for field use and they are really not what you want to nice finished welds with. Try craigslist and get a name brand that Miller or Lincoln still sells and should be good.

If you plan on taking a welding class, make sure you speak directly to the instructor and find out what percentage of the curriculum will be spent on the process you are going to choose. I called every local school I could find, and none of them had a course that spent any appreciable time on TIG, and the cost was as much as the welder itself. One more positive to
TIG that nobody mentioned, it's absolutely clean. No spatter or sparks.

I did that while I was in grad school. Very good exposure to all different types of welding without spending too much money. Start there to see what you're good at and you really think you wanna drop the coin on the eqpt.

The number one thing I can add is that the better you can see your puddle the better the weld will be. One will find that not all welds are right in front of your face with elbows resting on the work bench. Getting into a position as comfortable as possible (not always do-able) and making a practice pass before striking the arc helps a bunch.
FWIW, I use an auto helmet with big lens to mig and an old school non-auto small lens riveted helmet to tig. Everyone recommends auto for everything, but for me the old school helmet seems to work well doing any tig work. Possibly because it almost forces me to get comfortable before stepping on the pedal.
Magnified lenses are available and I recently have been trying a 1.5x with good results.

There have been a lot of good suggestions here. I took a great TIG class at the local CC and was very happy with it. I had 4 hours every Saturday morning to use an unlimited supply of coupons, filler rods, and electrodes. I'm sure the cost of the supplies I used was more than what I paid for the class.

One thing that hasn't been talked about though is how clean your work pieces need to be for each type of welding. Lots of people are suggesting TIG, but you mentioned working on household projects and things like lawn mowers. Those types of items are rarely clean. TIG welding requires the base metals to be darn near spotless. With TIG, you spend more time cleaning and prepping than welding. Any grease, dirt, (or foreign metal when doing AL) will contaminate the weld.

MIG is more tolerant of dirty base metal and the flux core wire even more so. Good ole fashioned stick arc seems like it will burn through anything. The point is, don't go buy a TIG machine and then spend hours trying to figure out why you can't lay down a nice bead on that rusty mower.

Ken

I would say that a MIG is a great hobbyist welder. Until you get into serious fabricating a TIG welder just seems like overkill to me. Yes you get better control of heat with a TIG, but I think MIG is a great way to learn. It's how I learned, went to work for a shop with a guy who taught me about welding and fabricating; before I can in all I could do was turn a wrench and swing a BFH.

Biggest suggestion I can make is get a good helmet, auto-darkening preferred. When I first started to watch and learn, I couldn't see what my friend was talking about. I couldn't see the puddle very well, etc. The helmet was so scratched up and beat up that I couldn't tell what was going on. Which was fine for him since he could weld by listening on the back side of a pipe, complete clear sight wasn't such a big deal for him, but when learning you really need to see what the metal is doing.

If you have a good friend who can teach you or take a class will obviously help a lot. But practice, practice, practice.

I would suggest a OK mig machine for around the house. Unless your house is more like a space ship. Mig is far easier to prep metal for as said above. The mig is better for tacking things into place by yourself. Mig is better for welding up exhaust on jack stands, or any other weird weld that you have to do. Spool guns are a PIA for the most part, but most of the time the parts are light enough to transport to a welding shop. You can buy a ton of beer for welders before "paying" for a fancy tig machine.

Have a friend get you started, it will save a ton of time in the learning curve. But at the end of the day, you just have to do it often and frequent!!!

Randy

I have Miller Matic 185 (older Transformer style, 220) and 200DX TIG/Stick inverter type, they both work great (bought both used non-working and fixed them) so I understand the sticker shock.

If you are limited to 110V type I'd get an inverter MIG machine, if you can do 220V an older Lincoln/Miller/Hobart transfomer MIG will serve you well (but not portable) and you will be hard pressed to kill it (an inverter welder can be damaged from overheating more easily). The nice thing about Lincoln/Miller/Hobart is repair/consumables are easily found local/online.

I've used Century and ESAB units also and they are fine too. For typical home use an inverter in the 130-180 range will handle most everything and be portable. If you think you want to do some Aluminum, spool guns work well for most repair/fab that you'll do at home (used Miller stuff at work at one time when I was a maintenance guy).

The TIG isn't that hard to learn, it's just time consuming (I'm still learning, steel/stainless is quick to pick up, Alum is a longer/steeper curve), it isn't quick in use either (set up/prep time is more) but you can weld really thin materials with little to no warping if you keep the heat affected area under control.

The older Mller/Lincoln/Hobart transformer machines usually have a better duty cycle and were typically a little under rated, my first Miller (120A transformer, 220V) easily welded 3/16 steel in a single pass (0.023 wire and co2/argon) with a 20-30% duty cycle and with flux core wire it could do 1/4 in a single pass.

Sorry folks, didn't mean to rivive an old thread (used wrong reply window) :hide:

I went with a 200A TIG - teaching myself as I go. I wouldn't turn down a MIG, and I keep trying to get the wife to buy me a gas setup, but the TIG has worked fine. I went that route knowing that for the most part I'd be doing: thin wall tubing, stainless, and AL, and not high volume. Whatever you do: practice practice practice.

You get points for calling yourself out, but I still can't resist. :D

https://cbsmiami.files.wordpress.com...gger.jpg?w=620

Personally, I'd like to hear how Froggy progressed and what he ended up buying. I've been working on a 10 pound roll of the gasless wire on my Lincoln 180 HD since 2012. I've sworn when it runs out I'll pony up for the bottle. Still waiting. . . :shrug:

Froggy? Any updates on your welding progress?
I bought a low end Miller Mig (110v) a bunch of years ago. Still can't weld for sh*t, but I am a LOT better than I was.
IMO: The gas bottle/regulator/wire was well worth the $$, as was an auto-darkening helmet.
Practice, practice, practice.

I have not bought one yet, so I am starting to forget the shit I learned in welding class

:ack:

But it'll come back. I paid to have my rim welded, which was probably a brilliant choice. Rims for sale other thread.

:)

Thanks for the points :cool:, The jpg is perfect, but come on get on the gas, it'll make that 180 even better to work with like 0.023 wire for really thin stuff ( 180 nice size, especially if you have both flux and gas setup). I agree with the sentiment though 10 lbs of wire lasts a while, both my MIGs came with 30# spools and they'll oxidize before I finish them (usable but not pretty and hard on the liner)

When I was diving commercially in another life I took a 30 day welding course in New Orleans, Airco welding class. Find one in your area or at a trade school. It really gets you going on the right foot.