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Less tech and more HP please!!
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? |
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582923966)
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? |
is that the one-off carroll shelby car?
one wonders how you get 850hp to the ground effectively in a rear-drive car. and its not something that you will be able to buy in a showroom and if you want that much hp in a vette, i suspect a custom twin turbo or a modified zr1 could get you there. |
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582923966)
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? To be clear, the Mustang's published time was better than the SS1LE by 1 second but C&D openly admitted they screwed up a shift or the SS1LE would have done a sub-three minute time, beating the Mustang's time even with a 236 hp disadvantage. BTW, don't forget there is a 1000 hp Mustang out there already! http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/27/s...ew-york-debut/ |
Not again...do we have to keep going over this?
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For sure, the Corvette should now come with 851 horsepower. That will show Ford since this is apparently a measuring contest with numbers!
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It should be 1,001hp at 53k. GM is le dumb.
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I think the 45/450 in the base C7 will be good enough for most people, But not for me. I am sure the HI PO model will have well over 500hp. The team working on the C7 understands they have to keep up with the HP wars. Hell My V has close to 600 flywheel hp and close to 600tq with minor mods. I love the feeling it gives me when I push the gas. It kicks my GS ass..lol..I Could only imagine these HP/TQ numbers in the new C7.
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The ZR1 should have 1,000,000 hp. Any less and it's DOOMED!
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I agree with the OP. 450 HP and a 4 second 0-60 with a 12 second range quarter is just not competitive any more. We'll see when the production car comes out though ... Yes more to the Vette than straight line speed but 95% of owners never road track their cars ( I however did ) and want paper bragging rights. Bull**** like that sells cars.
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Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582923966)
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? |
Good grief people why all the hate and bad additude????????????????????????????
Oh and thank you Ox for the mature and informative reply....that was more what I was looking for. |
Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582924470)
I agree with the OP. 450 HP and a 4 second 0-60 with a 12 second range quarter is just not competitive any more. We'll see when the production car comes out though ... Yes more to the Vette than straight line speed but 95% of owners never road track their cars ( I however did ) and want paper bragging rights. Bull**** like that sells cars.
|
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582924530)
Good grief people why all the hate and bad additude????????????????????????????
Oh and thank you Ox for the mature and informative reply....that was more what I was looking for. |
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582924530)
Good grief people why all the hate and bad additude????????????????????????????
Oh and thank you Ox for the mature and informative reply....that was more what I was looking for. Ultimately, if all you want is a drag car, go for the Mustang. |
As a Corvette fan and I have been in them more years then I want to admit don't understand the constant comparing the Corvette to the Mustang. I don't care if the Mustang is cranking out 1,000 HP, these are two totally different cars.
I do however agree with the OP, that if GM want the Corvette to be taking seriously in the world arena they need to bring their A game. I compare the Corvette with the Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin and the Lamborghini and the 450 hp is not going to get the job done. I realize that there will be a performance model some time down the road be it a Z06, ZR1 or what ever they want to call it, but it need to be sooner then later. All the glitz and glamor with the fancy dash board display will not get you world recognition as a top world class sports car. It takes Horsepower to do that. |
This whole experience of the C7 debut only this forum only reinforces how disconnected I am from much of the Corvette community. I try to talk to guys at the museum and at carlisle but it's very much like most of these people...out in lah lah land.
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Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582924687)
As a Corvette fan and I have been in them more years then I want to admit don't understand the constant comparing the Corvette to the Mustang. I don't care if the Mustang is cranking out 1,000 HP, these are two totally different cars.
I do however agree with the OP, that if GM want the Corvette to be taking seriously in the world arena they need to bring their A game. I compare the Corvette with the Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin and the Lamborghini and the 450 hp is not going to get the job done. I realize that there will be a performance model some time down the road be it a Z06, ZR1 or what ever they want to call it, but it need to be sooner then later. All the glitz and glamor with the fancy dash board display will not get you world recognition as a top world class sports car. It takes Horsepower to do that. The underpowered ZL1 Camaro kicks the big HP GT500 after the first lap in those verified tests that have been posted. :lurk: |
What is the obsession with horsepower numbers? Take any other American car , yup that pony thing too, put them on a road course and see who gets there first. Tag has already said the new C7 is quicker then the C6 GS.
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Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582924687)
As a Corvette fan and I have been in them more years then I want to admit don't understand the constant comparing the Corvette to the Mustang. I don't care if the Mustang is cranking out 1,000 HP, these are two totally different cars.
I do however agree with the OP, that if GM want the Corvette to be taking seriously in the world arena they need to bring their A game. I compare the Corvette with the Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin and the Lamborghini and the 450 hp is not going to get the job done. I realize that there will be a performance model some time down the road be it a Z06, ZR1 or what ever they want to call it, but it need to be sooner then later. All the glitz and glamor with the fancy dash board display will not get you world recognition as a top world class sports car. It takes Horsepower to do that. A lowly Mustang can never be in the class of a Corvette but a Vanquish, Aventador and 458 Italia surely can. Nice. |
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582923966)
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? |
Originally Posted by Jai 302
(Post 1582925123)
So it's wrong to compare a 55k car to a 55k car but perfectly normal to compare it to cars that cost 300k. Sure why not :)
A lowly Mustang can never be in the class of a Corvette but a Vanquish, Aventador and 458 Italia surely can. Nice. |
Everybody thinks they understand horsepower. More is better. That guy at the gas station is going to ask you two questions: How many horses? How fast will it go? (Then he might make a comment about gas mileage to make himself feel better.)
Corvette's answers might not impress him -- but he was impressed enough by the car to ask in the first place. Feel good about that. I'm not so interested in the final horsepower figure as I am the review that compares its performance and the driving experience to the 911S. .Jinx |
Originally Posted by Racer
(Post 1582924962)
Sorry, could you post tested times of this C7 that you are claiming is going to get it's ass kicked against cars up to 5 times it's price?
The underpowered ZL1 Camaro kicks the big HP GT500 after the first lap in those verified tests that have been posted. :lurk: The cars it has to compete against is the Porsche, Ferrari Aston Martin The price of the cars has nothing to do with it. But the Corvette will always be judged by the other exotic sports cars, not the Mustang,, Dodge Challenger or Camaro. We do not have any tiime's on the C7 yet as you are well aware of, but to compete with the Porsche, Ferrari, Viper, it will need to be in the low 3 second rand 0-60 and in the low 11's in the quarter mile. as that is what its competition is currently running. What I was trying to get across is that I don't (and many others) believe that a 450 hp Corvette will not last long against it real competition. The next performance Corvette needs to come out as soon as possible. |
Um... No. No one really needs 500+ hp. Thx.
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I dont care if you can or cant hook up 600 hp to the wheels, if it comes in at 450....it is a ****** number. The 67-69 L88 Vettes layed down 450 hp....this is 2013 and we have the same HP ??
You could not get L88's or other early 427s to hook up but what a blast and they were King Kong on the roads.....The C7 will not be feared! |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582925403)
I dont care if you can or cant hook up 600 hp to the wheels, if it comes in at 450....it is a ****** number. The 67-69 L88 Vettes layed down 450 hp....this is 2013 and we have the same HP ??
You could not get L88's or other early 427s to hook up but what a blast and they were King Kong on the roads.....The C7 will not be feared! |
But do we really buy Vette's for MPG's ?
|
Originally Posted by Jai 302
(Post 1582925123)
So it's wrong to compare a 55k car to a 55k car but perfectly normal to compare it to cars that cost 300k. Sure why not :)
A lowly Mustang can never be in the class of a Corvette but a Vanquish, Aventador and 458 Italia surely can. Nice. |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582925472)
but do we really buy vette's for mpg's ?
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Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582923966)
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? Now, about the Corvette. First, they're not completely done tweaking and testing it yet. They haven't built vin 00001 yet. The official specs are not in, the jury's still out.All we know is that it will be at least 450/450. Which, to have that under the hood and get nearly 30mpg highway, and the ability to comfortably drive it everyday, everywhere, anytime, for it's price point, isn't bad at all. And really, when are you going to use anything close to 450 horses? But 450ft lbs will get you to the end of that entrance ramp pretty darn quick. |
All of this crying about HP in the C7. Nobody here has driven or rode in one yet, but the 450 number dosen't meet your standards. Where on todays highways with traffic do you think you can use this power? I wouldn't buy a Mustang no matter what the hp #'s are?
Park a Mustang next to a C7 and see what car gets all of the attention? Why did the Grand Sport become the best selling Corvette model? It only has 436HP and the ZO6 has 505? If HP was so important the ZO6 should have been the sales leader? |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582925479)
That is 100% correct. Corvette's and Mustang's are two completely different cars. I am sure you are aware that the Corvette is a sports car, the Mustang is a muscle car. I don't know if you are aware of this but Chevrolet produces a car called a Camaro. That is what they answer to the Mustang, not the Corvette. Therefore the Corvette is and will always be compared to the exotics. That is how GM wants it. It does not matter what the difference is in the cost, it is just the plain truth that Porsche, Ferrari, GTR and Viper will be the competition of the Corvette and that is what it has to be able to beat on the track and I am not referring to true race version, but I am referring to what comes out of Bowling Green. Right now I don't think that the 2014 C7 will be able to compete with any of these other cars except the base 911. Don't forget, they have always used either the Z06 or ZR1 when testing these cars against each other and the Corvette as test was close to or well over the $100K price tag.
The ZR1 is the one that kicks the exotics butt. GM has different models of Corvettes, the base C7 is not the competition of some of these cars you are talking about, that car will come in time.............you have complained about everything about this car so far, and now another ridiculous, lack of knowledge post(s). Please post the track numbers of this car that you are saying won't be at all competitive? :lurk: Haters gonna hate. :nopity |
More Tech, Less HP please!!!
Performance with less HP is more impressive.. |
Originally Posted by Xtreme Z06
(Post 1582926149)
More Tech, Less HP please!!!
Performance with less HP is more impressive.. Too many bench racers want trailer/parking lot queens with big HP numbers. :rofl: |
Originally Posted by AGFNTB
(Post 1582927190)
:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Too many bench racers want trailer/parking lot queens with big HP numbers. :rofl: |
:nono:
you can always add power later, you can't really bolt on the tech. |
Better get use to it as the EPA doesn't have any regs covering the minimum horsepower a car can have , but does cover gas mileage and emissions with a heavy hand.
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Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582925403)
I dont care if you can or cant hook up 600 hp to the wheels, if it comes in at 450....it is a ****** number. The 67-69 L88 Vettes layed down 450 hp....this is 2013 and we have the same HP ??
You could not get L88's or other early 427s to hook up but what a blast and they were King Kong on the roads.....The C7 will not be feared! They were also running Leaded Gasoline which is the equivalent of 113 octane, got a whopping 7 or 8 mpgs. Which means less time to enjoy the goodies under the hood, come track day. The engines themselves were unreliable, and failure prone due to the imprecise fuel delivery system, especially at anything less than WOT. The cooling systems sucked balls as well. The ignition system also sucked hard core, as it was pre electronic ignition. Oh and to top it all off? That was Gross Horsepower, not Net (which means After all Accessories is on the engine) nor was it SAE certified HP. If you were to use 60s HP ratings, an L98 TPI would tip the scales at 320 horse power. The cars themselves were piles of crap in everything but the aesthetics department and would Murder You should you even think about getting into anything more mild than a fender bender, the fiber glass quality was craptastic. And the car's steering, braking and handling blew chunks. Also, given GTs track record of nailing factory specs, the C7 is probably going to be abit north of 450, the figure GT5 has given us is 468 hp IIRC. And this is the Base Model car. People that keep comparing to the GT500 also forget, Ford ain't going to sell 10k to 30k of those GT500s every year. I don't think they even build that many of them. |
if you want more hp install a supercharger or turbo, problem solved.
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Everyone keeps bringing up epa, cafe....
So are the 580hp ZL1, the 662hp Shelby, the 565hp Caddy immune to this? I guess I dont understand! All I know is before too long 4 door sedans will be putting out 450 if they are not already. |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582928063)
Everyone keeps bringing up epa, cafe....
So are the 580hp ZL1, the 662hp Shelby, the 565hp Caddy immune to this? I guess I dont understand! All I know is before too long 4 door sedans will be putting out 450 if they are not already. And there's a whole lot more to a car than ponies. If it were just ponies the ZL1 would stomp a ZO6 around any given track. And it can't beat the ZO anywhere, let alone a track. And again none of those cars are base model cars. Their base models, sport in the 300 horse power range. And not a single one of them likely moves as much in volume in top trim as a base model vette will. I'm more inclined to think GM lowballed the pony count until they could test the car. GT says the thing will wring out 460+ which is frankly more than enough on a Base Model Anything. I mean if we're going to be comparing non base models to base models lets get really silly. The C7 will have over 150 more horse power than a base model Mustang, Camaro, or CTS. Does that help put it into perspective for you? To also put it into perspective the C6R in the ALMS only carries 450 horsepower. That's the Top Dog in Road Racing. |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582928063)
Everyone keeps bringing up epa, cafe....
So are the 580hp ZL1, the 662hp Shelby, the 565hp Caddy immune to this? I guess I dont understand! All I know is before too long 4 door sedans will be putting out 450 if they are not already. |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582925403)
I dont care if you can or cant hook up 600 hp to the wheels, if it comes in at 450....it is a ****** number. The 67-69 L88 Vettes layed down 450 hp....this is 2013 and we have the same HP ??
You could not get L88's or other early 427s to hook up but what a blast and they were King Kong on the roads.....The C7 will not be feared! But alas, the base engine in 1968, since we are talking about a base car, was a 327 rated at 300hp. Of course there were more engine choices in 1968 than we have color choices today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C3) |
Originally Posted by Kappa
(Post 1582924103)
Not again...do we have to keep going over this?
:beatdeadhorse:
Originally Posted by DRLC5
(Post 1582924414)
I think the 45/450 in the base C7 will be good enough for most people, But not for me. I am sure the HI PO model will have well over 500hp. The team working on the C7 understands they have to keep up with the HP wars. Hell My V has close to 600 flywheel hp and close to 600tq with minor mods. I love the feeling it gives me when I push the gas. It kicks my GS ass..lol..I Could only imagine these HP/TQ numbers in the new C7.
Maybe the MARKETING team thinks that, but the engineers are smarter than the marketing team. |
Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582924470)
I agree with the OP. 450 HP and a 4 second 0-60 with a 12 second range quarter is just not competitive any more. We'll see when the production car comes out though ... Yes more to the Vette than straight line speed but 95% of owners never road track their cars ( I however did ) and want paper bragging rights. Bull**** like that sells cars.
|
Originally Posted by Aaron Keating
(Post 1582927925)
Yeah, and those were big blocks which were 200 to 300lbs heavier than a given cast iron SBC (400 heavier than the LSX/ New LT family.)
They were also running Leaded Gasoline which is the equivalent of 113 octane, got a whopping 7 or 8 mpgs. Which means less time to enjoy the goodies under the hood, come track day. The engines themselves were unreliable, and failure prone due to the imprecise fuel delivery system, especially at anything less than WOT. The cooling systems sucked balls as well. The ignition system also sucked hard core, as it was pre electronic ignition. Oh and to top it all off? That was Gross Horsepower, not Net (which means After all Accessories is on the engine) nor was it SAE certified HP. If you were to use 60s HP ratings, an L98 TPI would tip the scales at 320 horse power. The cars themselves were piles of crap in everything but the aesthetics department and would Murder You should you even think about getting into anything more mild than a fender bender, the fiber glass quality was craptastic. And the car's steering, braking and handling blew chunks. Also, given GTs track record of nailing factory specs, the C7 is probably going to be abit north of 450, the figure GT5 has given us is 468 hp IIRC. And this is the Base Model car. People that keep comparing to the GT500 also forget, Ford ain't going to sell 10k to 30k of those GT500s every year. I don't think they even build that many of them. After driving my father-in-law's mint '71, I don't think there's a base anything nowadays that won't make the ride of the vintage cars seem pitiful. The nostalgia factor is great but I'll stick with the C6 until the new one hits. |
Originally Posted by Aaron Keating
(Post 1582928150)
All 3 of those cars are slapped with the gas guzzler tax. So I guess they aren't immune.
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Originally Posted by BlueOx
(Post 1582924090)
BTW, don't forget there is a 1000 hp Mustang out there already! http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/27/s...ew-york-debut/ |
Originally Posted by redzone
(Post 1582929188)
Actually,the car with the most HP(GT00),does not have a gas guzzler tax.
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Originally Posted by Racer
(Post 1582925867)
I am not sure why you ACT(?) so clueless?
The ZR1 is the one that kicks the exotics butt. GM has different models of Corvettes, the base C7 is not the competition of some of these cars you are talking about, that car will come in time.............you have complained about everything about this car so far, and now another ridiculous, lack of knowledge post(s). Please post the track numbers of this car that you are saying won't be at all competitive? :lurk: Haters gonna hate. :nopity This thread was about more horsepower and all I have said in my post is until GM releases the high performance version it will not be a world class car. I have no doubt that this car will out perform the base C6 as well as the GS. We just have to wait for the C7 Z06, ZR1 or whatever they call it. That will be the car that they will use to compare Corvette to the world. As far as you constant use of the Haters gonna hate I truly wish you would grow up and act a little more like an adult that phrase has to be so juvenile if that is possible. |
The Corvette has always sold so well because it doesn't REALLY have any direct competitors.
To get something similar you pay much more (Granted you always get much more interior for your money). There is no direct 2 seat sports car in the 50k range that competes with Corvette. That's why it's successful. 400hp, 450hp....doesn't matter. If it's selling around 50k it will sell. |
I guess no one gets it!
I will hope and wait for the "Performance" version of the C7. |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582929765)
I guess no one gets it!
I will hope and wait for the "Performance" version of the C7. |
Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582924470)
I agree with the OP. 450 HP and a 4 second 0-60 with a 12 second range quarter is just not competitive any more. We'll see when the production car comes out though ... Yes more to the Vette than straight line speed but 95% of owners never road track their cars ( I however did ) and want paper bragging rights. Bull**** like that sells cars.
It's impossible to fully utilize even 400hp on the street without driving like an azzhat. But, marketing is what it is.... |
Originally Posted by Kappa
(Post 1582929784)
Gets what? That you are obsessed with a number instead of all the factors that go into making a car fast?
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Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582924470)
I agree with the OP. 450 HP and a 4 second 0-60 with a 12 second range quarter is just not competitive any more. We'll see when the production car comes out though ... Yes more to the Vette than straight line speed but 95% of owners never road track their cars ( I however did ) and want paper bragging rights. Bull**** like that sells cars.
Everyone says GM is going after the younger crowd....kids will get laughed at when they tell their buddies they got's 450HP ! |
Originally Posted by Kappa
(Post 1582929784)
Gets what? That you are obsessed with a number instead of all the factors that go into making a car fast?
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Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582929926)
BrooklynC6, I think you and I are the only ones who agree on this!
Everyone says GM is going after the younger crowd....kids will get laughed at when they tell their buddies they got's 450HP ! I guess you get laughed at a lot because your car is 430hp? Lord knows I can't keep the hecklers off me when they find out my LS2 only made 400hp stock. How much would it have taken to not be laughed at? Are Z06's laughed at with 505? I think we're also getting too caught up int he 450 number. That is NOT the official number. That's a placeholder until the actual numbers come out. Personally I believe it'll come in around 475. |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582929942)
12 sec. 1/4 is not fast!
I'm not sure when a 12.0 became slow stock, but it must've been during the last week. |
I believe it's a duel issue here with the lower than expected 450hp number.
1. HP is low when comparing to past HP bumps when new models are introduced 2. they are locking the damn computer DOWN.... I would be OK if the power was lower than expected if, I could tune it, throw on a few bolt on's... This car is NOT going to be mod friendly, and that is the biggest reason I'm worried. 390whp doesn't sound very appealing to me when I'm sitting in my fully tuned, E85, headers and intake bolt on LS3 build.. pushing close to 500hp to the crank. That is why i bought my corvette TO be honest, I thought the C7 would be close to the performance I'm at now with my lightly modded C6 however, based on the things that have been shared, it sounds like I'm going to be buying a slower car. A little unsettling is all I still believe Chevy will surprise us, and this car is going to be much stronger than we all think. PLEASE COME THROUGH CORVETTE TEAM |
Originally Posted by mattkilla2015
(Post 1582928780)
I don't think 0-60 or quarters matter nearly as much anymore. Traction and launch is the biggest issues with 0-60. Marketing should change from that to cars that go from 0-100-0 or 0- 120-0 would be better for what kind of stright line performance along with 1 mile drags. When I see hypercars tested these are the kinds of stats they use. Power to weight is much more important then just hp. For the people who want bragging rights, the c7 has a lot of tech stuff they can tell their friends.
A big LCD display ? A 6.2 liter motor with VVT and DI making less than 500 HP ? The ONLY two things even remotely tech impressive about the C7 is the 7 speed manual and the performance tuned magnetic ride. Otherwise it is in every way shape and form a conventional car.
Originally Posted by redzone
(Post 1582929188)
Actually,the car with the most HP(GT00),does not have a gas guzzler tax.
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582929512)
You really don't understand much do you? If you read the different post it might enlighten you. I have said over and over that the base C7 rated at 450 (estimated) hp is not a car that can compete with the exotic European cars it is designed to compete against. The Corvette was never intended to be a match for the Mustang or any other of the US muscle/pony cars that is what the Camaro is for. Of course I like everyone else have no track numbers to compare it with. But if you have any common knowledge of the cars in question, you should know that this car cannot compete with the likes of Ferrari, Porsche (expect the base cars), Lamborghini and so on.
This thread was about more horsepower and all I have said in my post is until GM releases the high performance version it will not be a world class car. I have no doubt that this car will out perform the base C6 as well as the GS. We just have to wait for the C7 Z06, ZR1 or whatever they call it. That will be the car that they will use to compare Corvette to the world. As far as you constant use of the Haters gonna hate I truly wish you would grow up and act a little more like an adult that phrase has to be so juvenile if that is possible. Blind chevy loyalty idiocy. Had two C6's now driving the 556HP CTS-V coupe that pulls like an absolute animal once I get traction - Anyone who thinks I'm going to step down to 450 HP and the same speed in real life on the street is nuts. Will the C7 beat my V around the road course ? For sure. But do I care for the 4-6 track days I run a season ? Hell no. I get power to weight ratio is king but I can buy a lotus if all I cared about was power to weight. A Corvette is not a go kart.
Originally Posted by Thud
(Post 1582929821)
It's the same as all those "trail-rated" SUV's that are only driven to the mall.
It's impossible to fully utilize even 400hp on the street without driving like an azzhat. But, marketing is what it is....
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582929926)
BrooklynC6, I think you and I are the only ones who agree on this!
Everyone says GM is going after the younger crowd....kids will get laughed at when they tell their buddies they got's 450HP !
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582929942)
12 sec. 1/4 is not fast!
Originally Posted by FloydSummerOf68
(Post 1582930163)
How many stock cars go 11s?
I'm not sure when a 12.0 became slow stock, but it must've been during the last week. When the C6 was released the BASE model, not the Z06 , compared favorably with the Porsche Turbos, Vipers, and Ferrari 360's of the world. Dont remember this only 9 short years ago ? These days everyone is using "Base model" as an excuse. Where is your pride ? All the other brands left Corvette in the dust until Chevy has to put out the 120k ZR1 just to be competitive, and its still slower than a heavy 6 cyl pig like the GTR ... Stop and think about cars for a minute. 12 second range quarters are the new 13 second range. :cheers: |
Originally Posted by FloydSummerOf68
(Post 1582930163)
How many stock cars go 11s?
I'm not sure when a 12.0 became slow stock, but it must've been during the last week. |
Originally Posted by LS3_E85_Corvette
(Post 1582930480)
I believe it's a duel issue here with the lower than expected 450hp number.
1. HP is low when comparing to past HP bumps when new models are introduced 2. they are locking the damn computer DOWN.... I would be OK if the power was lower than expected if, I could tune it, throw on a few bolt on's... This car is NOT going to be mod friendly, and that is the biggest reason I'm worried. 390whp doesn't sound very appealing to me when I'm sitting in my fully tuned, E85, headers and intake bolt on LS3 build.. pushing close to 500hp to the crank. That is why i bought my corvette TO be honest, I thought the C7 would be close to the performance I'm at now with my lightly modded C6 however, based on the things that have been shared, it sounds like I'm going to be buying a slower car. A little unsettling is all I still believe Chevy will surprise us, and this car is going to be much stronger than we all think. PLEASE COME THROUGH CORVETTE TEAM |
Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582930551)
The C7 has ZERO tech you can brag about
... ... ... |
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582923966)
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? |
Tell me what car has ever been untuneable. I don't care what chevy says....the PCM will be cracked and people will be tuning it.
LS1 to LS2 was 50hp. LS2 to LS3 was 30hp increase. This one will likely be 30-40hp increase as well. |
Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582930551)
The C7 has ZERO tech you can brag about.
A big LCD display ? A 6.2 liter motor with VVT and DI making less than 500 HP ? The ONLY two things even remotely tech impressive about the C7 is the 7 speed manual and the performance tuned magnetic ride. Otherwise it is in every way shape and form a conventional car. :iagree: And who cares about a gas guzzler tax, I paid it with my CTSV , big deal its a couple of grand. :iagree: "Haters gonna hate" Blind chevy loyalty idiocy. Had two C6's now driving the 556HP CTS-V coupe that pulls like an absolute animal once I get traction - Anyone who thinks I'm going to step down to 450 HP and the same speed in real life on the street is nuts. Will the C7 beat my V around the road course ? For sure. But do I care for the 4-6 track days I run a season ? Hell no. I get power to weight ratio is king but I can buy a lotus if all I cared about was power to weight. A Corvette is not a go kart. I disagree wholly, but by your logic the Vette should have a 300 HP 6 because thats all you really need on the street . Thats because 85% of this forum is either old men or kids who never owned a Vette. I'm 30 and I've been though 4, but I'm not blinded by loyalty to the brand. Its a different perspective. I also race my cars, take them to car washes and eat in them. I'm a heretic. :D :iagree::iagree::iagree: Not anymore, not anymore ... During the last few years my friend. When the C6 was released the BASE model, not the Z06 , compared favorably with the Porsche Turbos, Vipers, and Ferrari 360's of the world. Dont remember this only 9 short years ago ? These days everyone is using "Base model" as an excuse. Where is your pride ? All the other brands left Corvette in the dust until Chevy has to put out the 120k ZR1 just to be competitive, and its still slower than a heavy 6 cyl pig like the GTR ... Stop and think about cars for a minute. 12 second range quarters are the new 13 second range. :cheers: |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582924687)
As a Corvette fan and I have been in them more years then I want to admit don't understand the constant comparing the Corvette to the Mustang. I don't care if the Mustang is cranking out 1,000 HP, these are two totally different cars.
I do however agree with the OP, that if GM want the Corvette to be taking seriously in the world arena they need to bring their A game. I compare the Corvette with the Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin and the Lamborghini and the 450 hp is not going to get the job done. I realize that there will be a performance model some time down the road be it a Z06, ZR1 or what ever they want to call it, but it need to be sooner then later. All the glitz and glamor with the fancy dash board display will not get you world recognition as a top world class sports car. It takes Horsepower to do that. |
Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582930551)
During the last few years my friend.
When the C6 was released the BASE model, not the Z06 , compared favorably with the Porsche Turbos, Vipers, and Ferrari 360's of the world. Dont remember this only 9 short years ago ? These days everyone is using "Base model" as an excuse. Where is your pride ? All the other brands left Corvette in the dust until Chevy has to put out the 120k ZR1 just to be competitive, and its still slower than a heavy 6 cyl pig like the GTR ... Stop and think about cars for a minute. 12 second range quarters are the new 13 second range. :cheers: You still haven't explained when a 12.0 became slow for a stock car. There are still so few cars that will run 11s stock (as claimed by manufacturer...no 1-off drag racers in perfect negative DA situations) it's easy to name them out loud. If 12's are slow why havent you been complaining about how weak the LS3 is for the last few years? You guys are so ridiculous. So all of a sudden going from 2013 to 2014 and IMPROVING performance makes the car a turd where the 2013 was pretty good? How many times have you put your stock CTS-V in the 11s? I hate to tell you this, but unless you've done some mods, the CTS-V is a 12 second car. Pretty slow, I hear, considering it's no quicker than an LS3 corvette with only 430hp. |
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1582930743)
I think this sum's it up!:yesnod:
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Originally Posted by lt4obsesses
(Post 1582930603)
I have heard that they are making the ECM 'hack proof'. But I have also heard in interviews somewhere that this ECM also runs on different parametiers. So, if, for instance you add an intake and some longtubes, exhuast mods etc. the ECM will actually tune itself to optimize performance. So, no more running to the tuner, to pay $500 for a base line and another $75-$100 for every change. How cool would that be? But, also heard that if you add the wrong part, something that interferes with safety, emissions, economy (my guess) that the AFM kicks in until you remove it. We'll see.
Plug and play like windows XP? :P We will have to wait and see.. I had to get that rant off of my back.. I can now sleep better knowing everyone has heard my worries :thumbs: |
Originally Posted by LS3_E85_Corvette
(Post 1582930855)
Plug and play like windows XP? :P
We will have to wait and see.. I had to get that rant off of my back.. I can now sleep better knowing everyone has heard my worries :thumbs: Fear not....the aftermarket has some clever programmers. For every person who is clever enough to make an "unhackable" program there is someone clever enough to hack it. |
If the HP race keeps going, the left wingers are going to put us right back to the early 70's and we will be dreaming about the good ole muscle cars of the past again. There has to be a stopping point. Mustang is throwing out big HP numbers to sell there inferior car. It's well said that there is a lot more to a world class sports car than just HP.
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Originally Posted by MikeyTX
(Post 1582930825)
Evidently Jaguar, Aston and, Maserati don't meet your criteria as a sport car .........:rofl:
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The C7 is far more than just some raw engine HP numbers. Have you guys watched the Car and Driver video??? If not, you really need to see it.
I am thoroughly impressed by what the Corvette team has done with this car from the interior, engine, seats, exterior, etc... They revamped every single aspect of the car and in most cases dramatically improved upon the C6 . This new engine with DI, variable valve timing, and cylinder deactivation will easily get over 30mpg on the highway and still have gobs of HP when desired. My current Corvette has a little over 400HP and I have thought about the number of times I am at full throttle thinking about how much more I need. The reality is not many. 450HP in a well rounded sports car is plenty in my book. The C7 appears to be such a good all-around car that it could become my daily driver. I had a 98 BMW M3 that was a fabulous car to drive both on and off the track. It only had 240hp but was a ton of fun and never seemed to be short on power. Complaining about "only" 450HP is almost laughable in a car that will sell for less than 60K The folks that only focus on HP as the barometer that all cars are measured are really missing the point. For the Corvette, HP has only been one component of a great all around sports car. |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582931045)
Well many consider them that, but they are heavy 4 passenger cars luxury car with a sports car look. Most of these cars are well into the mid 4 second range on their 0-60. Besides as we all know when people look at a Corvette they will normally we comparing it to the Porsche, Lambo and Ferrari.
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Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
(Post 1582930551)
During the last few years my friend. When the C6 was released the BASE model, not the Z06 , compared favorably with the Porsche Turbos, Vipers, and Ferrari 360's of the world. Dont remember this only 9 short years ago ? These days everyone is using "Base model" as an excuse. Where is your pride ? You forget that in 2005 the F430 had been introduced which the Corvette couldn't catch until the Z06 was introduced. The regular C6 could take on the 997 Carerra S but not the 997 Turbo. The Viper in 2005 was making 500hp and was still running away from the C6 in most performance test. Seems like the same if you update to now with the 458, 991 Carrera S, and '13 Viper. All the other brands left Corvette in the dust until Chevy has to put out the 120k ZR1 just to be competitive, and its still slower than a heavy 6 cyl pig like the GTR ... Stop and think about cars for a minute. 12 second range quarters are the new 13 second range. :cheers: Let's remember that the Corvette team had two cars in mind to improve on this go around. 1. Improve on all performance aspects of the C6 GS. 2. Take on the 991 Carrera and Carrera S. That's it. They will leave the GT-Rs, Vipers, Ferraris for the top models as usual. 12 second cars are still very quick today. You are delusional if you think Chevy or any manufacturer was going to give you C6 Z06/Z07 levels of performance for $55-60K. |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582929512)
You really don't understand much do you? If you read the different post it might enlighten you. I have said over and over that the base C7 rated at 450 (estimated) hp is not a car that can compete with the exotic European cars it is designed to compete against. The Corvette was never intended to be a match for the Mustang or any other of the US muscle/pony cars that is what the Camaro is for. Of course I like everyone else have no track numbers to compare it with. But if you have any common knowledge of the cars in question, you should know that this car cannot compete with the likes of Ferrari, Porsche (expect the base cars), Lamborghini and so on.
Were you really hoping that you were going to get 458 performance(which by the way is more than a match for the C6 ZR1) for $55K? Get real. |
Something else to remember is the Vette is a Mass Production Sports Car, in an arena with Supercars.
It's the pinnacle of Sports car. Any Super Car with less than an A Game brought the Vette will beat in base trim. However a higher end Supercar, needs the Super Car Vette. The Mighty ZR1, or ZO6. That's the whole reason those 2 cars were introduced to the market, to flat out embarrass the Super Car world. I'm more than fine with buying a car for $55k that gets beat by a $100k+ car. If I get really worried about it, I'll stuff a couple hair dryers where the mufflers are and beat them silly after the fact and still get away over $30k less than they did at the cheapest. And honestly I don't think it's going to lose on the track by much at all given what I've seen of it so far in GT5. Assuming it loses at all for that matter. It feels every bit as heroic on slower circuits if not more so than the ZO6 does due to the chassis being light years beyond the C6s aged platform. Don't get it twisted the C6 is an amazing car, but C7 it ain't. In the case of the Shelby, You aren't getting a Real One with the performance options under $65k. That's assuming you're directly ordering from Ford, and having it delivered to your house so the greedy dealers can't mark it up further. That's a 10 grand difference. And I think all of us here are smart enough to realize $10k gets you one hell of a procharger, or a turbo setup, and some other goodies after the fact if you do the work yourself. |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582929512)
You really don't understand much do you? If you read the different post it might enlighten you. I have said over and over that the base C7 rated at 450 (estimated) hp is not a car that can compete with the exotic European cars it is designed to compete against. The Corvette was never intended to be a match for the Mustang or any other of the US muscle/pony cars that is what the Camaro is for. Of course I like everyone else have no track numbers to compare it with. But if you have any common knowledge of the cars in question, you should know that this car cannot compete with the likes of Ferrari, Porsche (expect the base cars), Lamborghini and so on.
This thread was about more horsepower and all I have said in my post is until GM releases the high performance version it will not be a world class car. I have no doubt that this car will out perform the base C6 as well as the GS. We just have to wait for the C7 Z06, ZR1 or whatever they call it. That will be the car that they will use to compare Corvette to the world. As far as you constant use of the Haters gonna hate I truly wish you would grow up and act a little more like an adult that phrase has to be so juvenile if that is possible. Haters gonna hate. |
Originally Posted by Racer
(Post 1582931925)
Speaking of "no clues" you thing the Stingray was built to compete against the Ferrari's, Lambo's and upper Porsche's? You are showing your ignorance. :crazy2: If so, what are the Z06's and ZR1's competing against, jets, space shuttles and rockets?
Haters gonna hate. |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582932172)
I am sure however that will not happen as GM would not allow it.
It means sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. jas |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582932172)
You are so pathetic it is beyond words. Zora want the Corvette to race against the worlds best back in the 50's and into the 60's and that has been their aim all along. That is exactly why the Z06 and more so the ZR1 were developed, to compete against the best of Europe. That has been the what I have been saying in this whole post. With out high performance Corvette's this is not a true world class sports car. The OP stated that 450 HP is not enough, and I agree with him as far as competing on the world stage, as a daily driver and occasional track car it is fine. Can you imagine if Road & Track or Car & Driver or any other automotive publication takes the 2014 C7 to Road America, Laguna Saga or any other track and do a comparison with it the Ferrari 458 and the 9121 Turbo. I don't think it would be pretty. I am sure however that will not happen as GM would not allow it. All of the comparison have been with the Z06 or the ZR1.
BAM!! :rock: |
Originally Posted by BWF07
(Post 1582932172)
You are so pathetic it is beyond words. Zora want the Corvette to race against the worlds best back in the 50's and into the 60's and that has been their aim all along. That is exactly why the Z06 and more so the ZR1 were developed, to compete against the best of Europe. That has been the what I have been saying in this whole post. With out high performance Corvette's this is not a true world class sports car. The OP stated that 450 HP is not enough, and I agree with him as far as competing on the world stage, as a daily driver and occasional track car it is fine. Can you imagine if Road & Track or Car & Driver or any other automotive publication takes the 2014 C7 to Road America, Laguna Saga or any other track and do a comparison with it the Ferrari 458 and the 9121 Turbo. I don't think it would be pretty. I am sure however that will not happen as GM would not allow it. All of the comparison have been with the Z06 or the ZR1.
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Originally Posted by Racer
(Post 1582932309)
Haha You just agreed with me, see "bold"
BAM!! :rock: This BWF guy is hilarious. |
You want fast? You want horsepower? Call Calaway in New England and bring your wallet. He will make you a vet that eats some of them European cars. As my ole Daddy use to say you can have anything you want just pay for it...
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I also agree. Less tech & more power would be better. I'd gladly trade all the new apps & gadgets for an LS7 as the standard hammer.
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Originally Posted by SCM_Crash
(Post 1582928613)
Seriously.
:beatdeadhorse: No... I'm pretty sure the engineers know that they don't need to keep up with the Jones' when it comes to power in order to beat the Jones'. Maybe the MARKETING team thinks that, but the engineers are smarter than the marketing team. I also guess the engineers who designed the Z06 & ZR1 are NOT trying to keep up with the Jones' lmao!!! Engineers are smarter? too funny..Book wise maybe but very few are real world engineers. I deal with them on a daily basis and good ones are few and far between.. |
Originally Posted by DRLC5
(Post 1582934243)
Hmmm Really? I guess just about every performance car in the world that keep raising the HP have it all wrong.
I also guess the engineers who designed the Z06 & ZR1 are NOT trying to keep up with the Jones' lmao!!! Engineers are smarter? too funny..Book wise maybe but very few are real world engineers. I deal with them on a daily basis and good ones are few and far between.. |
Originally Posted by Bill17601
(Post 1582934842)
I respect your opinion, but I do not agree. I think the educated people at Chevrolet and Corvette know what sells. They also know they can give the car another shot when sales slow down. They have built a new Corvette which will sell very well. Then comes the convertible and the z type cars.
joke......joke... |
Originally Posted by Bill17601
(Post 1582932365)
You want fast? You want horsepower? Call Calaway in New England and bring your wallet. He will make you a vet that eats some of them European cars. As my ole Daddy use to say you can have anything you want just pay for it...
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QUOTE=85scott;1582932610]I also agree. Less tech & more power would be better. I'd gladly trade all the new apps & gadgets for an LS7 as the standard hammer.[/QUOTE]
:thumbs::rock: |
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582923966)
Dont' get me wrong but I love the car and what we know about it so far but is seems like they should have packed in a little more HP. I read yesterday that the Mustang is coming out with an 850 HP version and it just seems like anything sub 550 HP (for example) is just lacking. I know we dont know final numbers and all but its hard to get excited when I hear about the HP.
Thoughts??? http://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchr...MENT&pgId=2102 |
Originally Posted by Racer
(Post 1582923989)
Oh, is this Mustang the base? Uh no. Is this Corvette the base model, uh yea.
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Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582939256)
QUOTE=85scott;1582932610]I also agree. Less tech & more power would be better. I'd gladly trade all the new apps & gadgets for an LS7 as the standard hammer.
I don't even understand ridiculous statements like that. What you're asking for already exists. It's called a C6 Z06. More bare-bone with an LS7. |
The standard C7 really has no equals or competition at its price point. I'd say you probably won't find a better all around machine for under 100K. One might throw in the GTR, but it is a class above the standard C7 when it comes to performance; a more accurate competitor will be the C7 Z06.
Although Mustangs are very capable, they are a different animal too. The standard C7's most accurate competition would be most Porsche's at this point. The C7 Z06 will continue compete against the cars like the 458, Gallardo successor, and MP4-12C. In fact, the C6 Z06/Z07 already does and has beat all of them around most tracks. I would expect the C7 Z06 to clearly establish itself as king where most of these vehicles play - around the 200K - 250K price bracket. The C7 ZR1's competition will be what the C6 ZR1's competition is today - the Murcielago which became the Aventador, the Viper/ACR, the 599 which became the Berlinetta, and similar vehicles. Most of these vehicles cost 300K - 400K and have between 640 hp - 740 hp. Nothing has changed. The C7 will continue to progress and compete against the same cars that the C6 did. The performance specs of the C7 models will be aligned accordingly. In fact, I would expect the C7 ZR1 to be king, falling just short of hyper cars like the McClaren P1 and Ferrari F70, simply due to weight and a power difference. If you look today, this success is already the case with the C6 ZR1, which owns records at many tracks around the world. |
Originally Posted by NICK YOSKIN
(Post 1582940223)
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
Its just a wish and what I know about the car so far makes still want one but I still feel like they should have uped the ante a bit more than they did. |
Originally Posted by 1RedVettFor2
(Post 1582944611)
I really didnt want to start arguments but more the point here is that the Mustang I'm refering to will likely be in the same or similar price category. No doubt the corvette will out manuver its way around a race track but I and do not own, drive on or live near one. I would rather in real world driving be able to pull up to a stop light and know a mustang (such as the one i mentioned) has no chance against my Vett in a straight line. Even if I don't actually try to drag race the other car I just want the bragging rights and I have a feeling that 850 vs. 450 HP would lose in the case of the Corvette.
Its just a wish and what I know about the car so far makes still want one but I still feel like they should have uped the ante a bit more than they did. |
Originally Posted by rcallen484
(Post 1582944675)
The Corvette's primary allure has never been it's drag race capabilities. It's quickness is more a by-product of Chevrolet's expertise in creating a very capable, high performance sports car. I always, always felt that a Corvette looked just a little like a fish out of water on a dragstrip. The Camaro and Mustang, however, to my eye, look right at home there. :auto:
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