Fast list 1/4 mile time keeping question / discussion
 

As the keeper of the C-5 fast list at the top of the page, I just wanted to have some input as to how to define a rule I've been thinking about and would like to hear some opinions.

I understood there was some UN-written rule that one had to drive their own car in order for it to be considered a record. However I cannot seem to find anything on it except for below.


Taken from the C-6 list:
"As CF members went to the track and posted their times the list evolved. Somewhere along the line we added more individuals who had modified their cars so that other CF members could benefit from each others experience as long as they ran their cars with the stock tires. It finally evolved into its present form when Nineball rearranged it in June of 2006 into the list you see now."

My opinion is, putting a gunslinger driver into a six-speed car really shouldn't be considered having a record or just because the vehicle has passed through someones shop for work, and they took that vehicle to the track with a professional/semi-professional driver in it to see how fast it could possibly go, again, THEY do not get the vehicles record. I feel that sort of falls into this undefined gray area. Such as, what if I decided to put my 98lb daughter in my C5 Automatic heads/cam car. Of course it will go faster with an extra 75lb weight loss but will it be my record, her record or even my shops record :crazy: ... I'm sure someone like dennis50nj would greatly benefit from this having my 105lb daughter in his badazz C6. :lol:

Up for discussion:

Who gets to claim they have the record? The driver, the shop that does the work on the car and doesn't even drive but could also be the gunslinger / 98lb daughter?

Where does the owner of the car fit-in?
My thought is/was this is what the car has actually run and should be the only consideration when posting a time ...

Discuss...

For records sake I believe the owner of the car needs to drive it. But, if the rules pan out different the "car" gets credit. Then, if they desire have a professional driver to see the difference (or not)

I haven't run into this yet in the C5 section but if you take a look over at the C6 list, it seems to have become a "normal" thing that the speed / performance / tune shop is getting credit for someone Else's car.

for example:

smitty @ EESs
or
frankie @ weCanTune

As far as I can tell, they do not personally own those vehicles but rather seem to be gaining a marking "plug" for their shop...

I personally like to give credit where it is due but have always drove my own vehicle that I own...

I am thinking if some shop were to ask to be on the C-5 quick list above that I would not update the information as requested unless they are the owner of the vehicle.

thoughts?

Yup I agree

The only two lists that I know that require that the car owner and driver must be one in the same are the C5Z and C6Z Fast Lists. As for the list that you are maintaining Rob, it should be up to you. It is a great amount of effort and time required to update these lists. My hat is off to you for your hard work. :thumbs:

all records should go to driver, thats how nhra is,

Thank you, Gary!

I have noticed that it can be up to me but there are a lot of people here in this section that might disagree with my train of thought and before I just make the decision, I felt the fair thing would be is to get other peoples thoughts /opinions on it and go with the general consensus...

So long as the C6 1/4 mile performance challenge is a "free-for-all" ... Do you have the Internal Engine Modifications LS3 record with a 10.374 or was someone else driving?

i say you play the game by the rules, what ever the house says, personally i consider it a mod, nobody's car is the same, even stock they all have different levels of trim, different gears rear and trans manual A4 A6 every car is a different weight, each driver is a different weight, in the stock classes then every class from bolt/on - forced induction has different mods, its not IROC, their is no prize, its all about what the car can do with the right mods and even if 100% stock its all about what the car can do with the best driver even if its a lighter driver, its about the car when the manufacturer gives a spec like 1/4 mile time nobody care's who the hell the driver is, if i weighed in at the jockey weight of a ranger or mitchg then i would agree with them, how about i set a car up with remote control and drive it would that be acceptable, most NHRA classes have set weight requirements, ranger says no tommyd says yes, its there game Rob this is your game:flag:but i know my car stock CI NA with a 90lb driver might run 9s but with a 293lb driver only ran 10.20:lol:

I'm beginning to think all of you C6 guys are Cowboys! :pistols:

You'll seem to love the "no-set-rules" so long as I win attitude :lol:

Who drove the car?
Who's car was it?
Are they even on the forum?
Was it really a LS2 / LS3? Who cares the car is out of site-out of mind...
We don't really care there's no prize, but you see my name is on top ... :skep: ... life is a game and I wanna be on top of it. no matter how I get there! :lolg:

I'm gonna still side with the C5 Z06 and C6 Z06 folks and say you have to drive your own car to be on the C5 quick list :flag:

convince me that I'm wrong...

ok last try, you have two cars both are automatics, both run the same time exactly 11.00 at 118 mph car 1 driver 1 weighs 120, car 2 driver 2 weighs 300, now they switch drivers, which car is faster? its not about the driver its about the car and of course the car doesnt have a name, so put the owners name and you know what the car ran, a lighter driver is no more then a weight reduction mod or driver mod in a stick:thumbs:

Haha.....life's not fair. If it is not your car the run was just for chits and giggles and should only go to show you what your car is capable of. And inspire you to man up....... Record runs should be "your" car with "you" driving. What kind of guy would have someone else pilot their car for a record ?? The driver "mod" is real.....and it cannot be bought !!

Advise....hit the tread mill and TnT on Friday nights !!

Hell.....why not just hire a pro driver to run your car, that way you have zero impact on the overall outcome. Pay someone to build it and pay someone to drive it......this argument is absurd......owner has to drive the car.....:crazy2:

If anyone thinks hired drivers are ok...then the record should reside with the car....with ZERO mention of the driver or the owner, that failed on his only mission as the cars owner. Matter of fact, there should be an astrix by the run. Noting the owner was not capable of completing the task of which he built his car to do.

FYI, this is just my opinion and is only worth $.02

And sorry if I stepped on any toes, I am not up to speed with the NE clicks and whos batting for who.
.

Let me brake this down in your redneck terms ...

I have two cars both are automatics, both run 11.00 @ 118 mph - period!

next sentence

Now I have the same cars with two different drivers who weigh different. They are still my cars, and yes the cars still have a name, MINE! That driver mod run should have an asterisk for my car either #1 or #2. but I would not even add it to our quick list, it might go deep inside my about me profile, somewhere but not on the quick list if I didn't make the run!

We don't even know whose car it was that broke the Internal Engine Modifications LS3 record with a 10.374 or, who even drove it to this record 1/4 mile time. We do know that the owner could only manage a low 11 second 1/4 mile run with his car.

Dennis, I'm not satisfied with your answer, you haven't convinced me that YOUR record bolt-on run is actually yours but definitely is your cars with a driver modification and should have an asterisk next to it because you didn't drive it. Weight reduction mod is what I discussed earlier with putting my 98lb daughter in to go faster.

Just my opinion and hopefully I didn't hurt any feelings in speaking my mind. (just kidding - I really don't care either way :lol:) If your feelings were hurt, try to get over it without taking too many medications :cheers:

Dennis, thank you for your input to this however; you wouldn't make the C5, C5Z06 or C6 Z06 fast lists with the bolt on record. I do respect your position and your compassion to defend it :cheers:

any C5 folks in here want to get in on your quick list rule?

Put a min weight on the car that even the heavy guys can make.

And yes, you should have to drive your own car. That seems incredibly simple.

Beyond that, I have no stake in this, I won't be battling for the C5 346 bolt on record.

As I have said, I'm happy to be on the list. My personal satisfaction comes from building and racing my own car. There's no way I'd ever let someone else work on it or drive it. I'd be embarrased if they beat my best time with it......:D

Ron

Rob,
I think that you will get a fair amount of differing opinions as you can already see by the responses. As for the LS3 car mentioned above, the car was entered based on the rules. :thumbs: Once you solicit the opinions of others, then render a decision whether it is a majority or minority opinion. No one can fault you as long as you remain consistent. :thumbs:
Dennis,
:iagree:As long as you are playing by the rules, it's all good.
I can attest that the owner of that red LS3 H/C car is John. He is a loyal customer of Tune Time Performance and loves the way that his car came out. It has exceeded his expectations as well as the expectations of many others. (Car drives without surging. Makes a ton of useable power.) At our last rental, we worked with John to better maximize the potential of his car. Prior to this, he ran in the 12s with a 2.xx sixty foot. After approximately half a dozen passes, we were able to get his 60' down to the 1.5s and an ET of 11.02. (He cautiously shifted the 2-3 in order not to miss the gear.) He was so excited when he got back from that pass and we showed him his timeslip. His quote (paraphrased) was 'I never felt anything like that before in the front seat of a car.' :lol: We chuckled hearing that from a man in his latter 60s. This was the real success. With a few more lessons, I'm sure we could get him to click off a mid to high 10 second pass with his current setup.

Last time I added my 2 cents in the C6Z thread I received a Cazziata. (Italian dialect for 2 angry phone calls, bunch text messages and PM's) :D

I have to agree with Gary's post in that it's your list. Ask for opinions, get feedback and then make a set of rules that must be adhered to.

Rob i thank you for caring about my feelings:lol: im not hurt,:D tommyd was their when i ran my car, seen with his own eyes and videoed every pass, he knows that i drove 10 record passes that day and they still haven't been beat by any other LS2LS3 the very last pass of the day i made a judgement call and put a litter driver in, the max mod, since the driver was max. the weight reduction showed that i got the driving job done better as the end results didn't justify the reduction, but that's all old news, and since then i went on and drove all passes and reached #1 10.59 cam only and #2 10.20 H&C, you cant, you cant list Herbie the love bug, if the owner has to drive then shouldn't the owner have to build, bone stock i can see it, but once you mod everything is a mod, how do you put a cai in the same class as all bolt/ons, the shop should get recognition, the owner and the driver, that's why the c6 list can be read in its entirety and all the information can be found within the list.:yesnod: i could care less tommy can remove all my bolt/on times from the list as it wont be in the top spot once LS1LT1 decides to go faster and i will be a part of that record run the same as he was with mine, as a team, the same as many other top contenders:thumbs:

forget that redneck crap, im a PINEY maybe they are the same:lol:

Gary, That's what it's all about! :thumbs:

:lol: I know Dennis, it's in my blood too ...

I'm thinking about starting a whole new category just for you!

Thoughts ...

That's why no one will let me drive their car... :smash: