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-   -   A hypothetical (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-general-discussion/3269979-a-hypothetical.html)

Big Dan 427 05-12-2013 05:36 PM

A hypothetical
 
I think it easy a fair statement that to many the C2 is the most attractive design ever put on a Corvette. This thread is not to debate that though, it is simply to ask if the new C7 had all its modern tech, chassis, suspension, interior etc. in what would be a modernized C2 body to meet safety standards how many would be even more enthused about the new car. If you think about it GM kind of did exactly that with the Camaro and it has been a huge success as has the Mustang since it went retro. Does anyone think a retro Corvette would sell or is it more about keeping up with the Joneses as far as design goes?

AORoads 05-12-2013 05:44 PM

No, I would not.

And, not to argue the point, but no, the C2 is not the undisputed design of all time, and I owned (and loved) one.

Everything changes, and evolves. There is a time for everything. That was then.

gthal 05-12-2013 05:45 PM

I think the retro thing has been played out. I don't believe it would sell as well nor would it attract new buyers. It would perpetuate the same issues GM would have going forward with the Corvette brand if it didn't modernize.

If you look at the next Mustang (or early projections) it is also going the modern route as it is hard to live in the past and also move forward. That isn't to say the C2 wasn't a great design and beautiful but it would largely be the traditional/old school buyer and that group isn't getting bigger. You aren't taking people who are currently in European brands into the Corvette fold with a C2 design today... the only people who would love that idea are those who grew up with the Corvette and like the style from that era.

It was a nice design for the time but the times have changed... as has the market. Living in the past and not evolving quickly enough is half the problem the North American auto manufacturers had in the last decade. You can't compete by staying in the past... that has been pretty much proven.

All just my opinion... obviously.

rcallen484 05-12-2013 05:46 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583882032)
I think it easy a fair statement that to many the C2 is the most attractive design ever put on a Corvette. This thread is not to debate that though, it is simply to ask if the new C7 had all its modern tech, chassis, suspension, interior etc. in what would be a modernized C2 body to meet safety standards how many would be even more enthused about the new car. If you think about it GM kind of did exactly that with the Camaro and it has been a huge success as has the Mustang since it went retro. Does anyone think a retro Corvette would sell or is it more about keeping up with the Joneses as far as design goes?

Big Dan, I don't think that those are the only two explanations. Just because the Corvette style has changed in some regards does not mean it is to keep up with the Jones. It could just be another example of the natural evolution of design in a product offered at retail sale. If there had been an internet back in 1956, I wonder what the Chevy sedan/coupe faithful would have said about the impending 1957 fins?

Big Dan 427 05-12-2013 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by AORoads (Post 1583882071)
No, I would not.

And, not to argue the point, but no, the C2 is not the undisputed design of all time, and I owned (and loved) one.

Everything changes, and evolves. There is a time for everything. That was then.

Just curious, what in your opinion is the best design?

vankenn 05-12-2013 05:51 PM

Besides the interior, I would say the C6 Z06 is the nicest corvette to date.. besides the C7 of course. The C7 have some issues.... LOL

Big Dan 427 05-12-2013 05:52 PM


Originally Posted by rcallen484 (Post 1583882076)
Big Dan, I don't think that those are the only two explanations. Just because the Corvette style has changed in some regards does not mean it is to keep up with the Jones. It could just be another example of the natural evolution of design in a product offered at retail sale. If there had been an internet back in 1956, I wonder what the Chevy sedan/coupe faithful would have said about the impending 1957 fins?

Good one...internet in the 50's. :thumbs: If there was I'd be very afraid of the world we would be living in now, just like I'll be very afraid for those 60 years from now!

I agree with you about evolution, I guess I should have stated that the C2 is so loved by most I couldn't imagine it not being a home run with all modern components.

Sin City 05-12-2013 05:53 PM

Hate to break it to you but the C2 never did anything to me. Looked too much like the Merc Gullwing.

And... I HATE the retro thing. Leave the classics alone and start a new classic design. Designing retro cars is like saying you've officially run out of ideas.

If you really want a modern C2, make a retro-rod with all new stuff underneath. Personally, I think Chip Foose is a BUTCHER but if that's your thing, go for it.

gthal 05-12-2013 05:53 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583882089)
Just curious, what in your opinion is the best design?

Best is the C7, then C6 widebody, then C3... not that you asked my opinion :D

I'm not a traditionalist and prefer modern design which biases my opinion. Ferrari is another example, the 458 is the most beautiful car they ever produced IMO and it is the most recent. Others may/will disagree.

millpond 05-12-2013 05:54 PM

Retro is not the way to go for the Vette. GM did the right thing with the C7.

mpuzach 05-12-2013 05:57 PM

In response to your question, I honestly don't have a thought one way or another on how a retro C2-designed C7 would sell. It certainly could have been done, given the very similar dimensions of the two cars. Having said that, I give Tadge and his design team a lot of credit for not going down that path. The C7 is a knockout on its own merits that still does an admirable job of paying homage to its predecessors.

Big Dan 427 05-12-2013 06:00 PM


Originally Posted by Sin City (Post 1583882116)
Hate to break it to you but the C2 never did anything to me.

The C2 never did anything TO me either!:lol:


Originally Posted by gthal (Post 1583882119)
Best is the C7, then C6 widebody, then C3... not that you asked my opinion :D

I'm not a traditionalist and prefer modern design which biases my opinion. Ferrari is another example, the 458 is the most beautiful car they ever produced IMO and it is the most recent. Others may/will disagree.

It's okay, opinions welcome!:thumbs: Wow a 458 huh, with that stable to choose from I don't think that would be my choice which is exactly why we all have our own taste.

talon90 05-12-2013 06:01 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583882032)
I think it easy a fair statement that to many the C2 is the most attractive design ever put on a Corvette. This thread is not to debate that though, it is simply to ask if the new C7 had all its modern tech, chassis, suspension, interior etc. in what would be a modernized C2 body to meet safety standards how many would be even more enthused about the new car. If you think about it GM kind of did exactly that with the Camaro and it has been a huge success as has the Mustang since it went retro. Does anyone think a retro Corvette would sell or is it more about keeping up with the Joneses as far as design goes?

It had been talked about. Lot's of retro out there and the designers and engineers didn't want to just do a retro like with Camaro and what Dodge did with the Challenger. They wanted the Corvette moving forward.

R&L's C6 05-12-2013 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by millpond (Post 1583882124)
Retro is not the way to go for the Vette. GM did the right thing with the C7.

:iagree:

RC000E 05-12-2013 06:16 PM

C2 is a horror story in the aero dept and would lose every race it ever entered. Wonder how that C2 body design does at 200mph vs the competition...hmmm? You aren't going to compete in market of modern supercars with an old hoopty.

The retro movement was a mistake as is, but everyone was doing it, so for a period of time, it worked. The people with money to spend wanted that...so they got it. The market has changed...we all know what happened in the 60's, now those of use who weren't alive then got to watch those guys relive their high school days by buying new versions.....can we all move on now? How about we do something....NEW...scary word...NEW!

CJJ 05-12-2013 06:18 PM

playing nicely.
well done.

c2 is soo hot.

i would buy one someday if it had modern options.. Hell yea. better gass, electronics, safety. speed. I would deffinitly check it out.

Bill17601 05-12-2013 06:18 PM

My favorite Corvette is the 1970 big block C3. No accounting for taste..Every Corvette is beautiful and stands on its own merit.:thumbs:

Big Dan 427 05-12-2013 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by RC000E (Post 1583882259)
C2 is a horror story in the aero dept and would lose every race it ever entered. Wonder how that C2 body design does at 200mph vs the competition...hmmm? You aren't going to compete in market of modern supercars with an old hoopty.

The retro movement was a mistake as is, but everyone was doing it, so for a period of time, it worked. The people with money to spend wanted that...so they got it. The market has changed...we all know what happened in the 60's, now those of use who weren't alive then got to watch those guys relive their high school days by buying new versions.....can we all move on now? How about we do something....NEW...scary word...NEW!

I gather you are quite accomplished from reading your posts and insightful opinions so let me ask you, how did they do it with a very heavy block shaped new Camaro? That ZL1 is a monster that is not exactly a aero specimen and it is heavy. Thoughts?

Oh and just a side note, the Ford GT was an amazingly successful redo of the GT40 and it came in well above 150k, they are now only 6-7 years after build being stopped bringing over 200k.:thumbs:

sam90lx 05-12-2013 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by gthal (Post 1583882119)
Best is the C7, then C6 widebody, then C3... not that you asked my opinion :D

I'm not a traditionalist and prefer modern design which biases my opinion. Ferrari is another example, the 458 is the most beautiful car they ever produced IMO and it is the most recent. Others may/will disagree.

Wow, didnt see that one coming!:rofl::rofl:

69L79 05-12-2013 06:53 PM

No retro. But, I can see evolution when comparing early C3s with the C7. :yesnod: I think the moniker Stingray was a natural for the C7. :yesnod:

Groovepusher Sly 05-12-2013 06:57 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583882032)
modernized C2 body

The C7 IS a modernized C2.
They mentioned that when talking about how the C7 design came about. I think some of the earliest press I read about the C7 talked about that.

You already got your wish. Just gaze at the photos more and you'll begin to see it.

I think that a lot of the design was dictated by what was needed for the C7, so ANYTHING retro was out of the question. Corvette HAS to win races, it helps sell cars.

Sly :cool:

Oh yeah, start making C2 replicas with LS crate motors, if you sell a million of 'em, your hunch, or belief about the C2 is right!

BlueOx 05-12-2013 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583882032)
I think it easy a fair statement that to many the C2 is the most attractive design ever put on a Corvette. This thread is not to debate that though, it is simply to ask if the new C7 had all its modern tech, chassis, suspension, interior etc. in what would be a modernized C2 body to meet safety standards how many would be even more enthused about the new car. If you think about it GM kind of did exactly that with the Camaro and it has been a huge success as has the Mustang since it went retro. Does anyone think a retro Corvette would sell or is it more about keeping up with the Joneses as far as design goes?

Just get one of these and leave GM alone to build real modern Corvettes.
http://www.karlkustomcorvettes.com/
http://www.karlkustomcorvettes.com/i...how/slide4.png
http://www.karlkustomcorvettes.com/i...how/slide1.png

Larry/car 05-12-2013 07:05 PM

When the C2 and C7 sit side by side the C2 looks all the dated old car. The wheels and tires are small and it sits so high off the ground to be completion with the World Trade Center, well almost. Time to move forward, imagine what is ahead!

Big Dan 427 05-12-2013 07:35 PM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583882584)

Now that is something I'd love to own.
Thanks for the link, got to check them out!:thumbs:

Sin City 05-12-2013 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583882584)

Horrible. Simply horrible. Who would screw up a classic like that?

torquetube 05-12-2013 07:57 PM


Originally Posted by Sin City (Post 1583882869)
Horrible. Simply horrible. Who would screw up a classic like that?

A classic C6 you mean? No C2s were harmed during the making of those cars.

Jack Be Quick Racing 05-12-2013 07:59 PM

The re-skinned C6 to look like a C2 - hmmm, not a fan. Much like the add-on's to make a modern Challenger look like the old Superbird. The proportions are just off for someone who has spent enough time dreaming about the original. But, there is a market for it. Much like the bolt-on changes to make a Camaro into a new gen Firebird.

Retro-mod a C2 - for me, absolutely. That was the project I was trying to get started before giving up and moving onto a C7. Had a gutted out shell with a 'non-special' vin frame ready to be replaced with an SRIII holding a new create LS. No, I wouldn't butcher a 'special', but re do essentially a junk yard hulk - yes. But, alas it was not to be as the seller wanted the shell to be restored to factory original. Eh, it was not to be.

Retro designed C7 from GM - would make me think of the 'new' corvette design as the latest 'me too' approach to retro cool that would be late to the show while the other manufactures are planning to go new direction with their redesigns planned for 2015. For me the corvette is supposed to be the flagship, the halo, not the latest, late introduced play on something that Ford started in 2005 with the Mustang.

IMHO.

BlueOx 05-12-2013 08:02 PM


Originally Posted by Sin City (Post 1583882869)
Horrible. Simply horrible. Who would screw up a classic like that?

They are C5's/C6's that have body kits put on them. They are done quite well but I don't like them either. And I have seen them in person and they look like malformed C2's. :ack:

MikeG37 05-12-2013 08:10 PM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583883011)
They are C5's/C6's that have body kits put on them. They are done quite well but I don't like them either. And I have seen them in person and they look like malformed C2's. :ack:

They definitely pulled a double with that thing... butchering 2 great Corvette designs all in one car.

Groovepusher Sly 05-12-2013 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by Groovepusher Sly (Post 1583882538)
I think that a lot of the design was dictated by what was needed for the C7, so ANYTHING retro was out of the question. Corvette HAS to win races, it helps sell cars.

I meant to say "C7R"

Sly :cool:

BlueOx 05-12-2013 08:13 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583882834)
Now that is something I'd love to own.
Thanks for the link, got to check them out!:thumbs:

That tells me all I need to know about you.

volvos80 05-12-2013 08:13 PM

If you allow a person never having even thought about getting a US car I have been inspired by the new C7 as a sporty looking, high technology and affordable fun sports car. Any of the older versions never caught my fancy until I happened to see a magazine article about the new C7. I will buy one for sure as my very first US made car. That aught to say something about appeal to new buyers.

gthal 05-12-2013 08:31 PM


Originally Posted by sam90lx (Post 1583882434)
Wow, didnt see that one coming!:rofl::rofl:

Seems we are both fairly consistent :thumbs:

Stingray23 05-12-2013 08:32 PM


Originally Posted by gthal (Post 1583882119)
Best is the C7, then C6 widebody, then C3... not that you asked my opinion :D

I'm not a traditionalist and prefer modern design which biases my opinion. Ferrari is another example, the 458 is the most beautiful car they ever produced IMO and it is the most recent. Others may/will disagree.



you're right. I totally disagree. It an abomination in my eyes.

AORoads 05-12-2013 08:36 PM

For me, Corvettes are a bit different: I don't have a single, fave style. I have models/years in each gen that I like more than the others but that's about it.

In C2, I wasn't crazy about the SWC (heresy for those who luv the one and only year of that crazy bar in the rear window). The cleanest look was the '67. One of the C2's meaner looks was the only year of the 396 car and hood.

But you won't hear/read me on the C6---too new for me to tell, jus' yet....:D

Sin City 05-12-2013 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by torquetube (Post 1583882980)
A classic C6 you mean? No C2s were harmed during the making of those cars.

I understand but it's butchery of the C2 design.

HollywoodC7 05-12-2013 08:46 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583882032)
I think it easy a fair statement that to many the C2 is the most attractive design ever put on a Corvette. This thread is not to debate that though, it is simply to ask if the new C7 had all its modern tech, chassis, suspension, interior etc. in what would be a modernized C2 body to meet safety standards how many would be even more enthused about the new car. If you think about it GM kind of did exactly that with the Camaro and it has been a huge success as has the Mustang since it went retro. Does anyone think a retro Corvette would sell or is it more about keeping up with the Joneses as far as design goes?

If everyone stood outside the bubble...............and looked in......they would see how Dramatic GM moved the needle on the C7.......that is what is needed

R&L's C6 05-12-2013 08:47 PM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583883011)
They are C5's/C6's that have body kits put on them. They are done quite well but I don't like them either. And I have seen them in person and they look like malformed C2's. :ack:

If I remember correctly, you give them your car + 100k to get it done..:willy::willy:

michaelinmech 05-12-2013 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by HollywoodC7 (Post 1583883394)
If everyone stood outside the bubble...............and looked in......they would see how Dramatic GM moved the needle on the C7.......that is what is needed



I tried using my GM-Bose Navigation system to find the directions to get outside the Bubble . . . it took me to Wrigley Field in Chicago :confused2:

talon90 05-12-2013 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by volvos80 (Post 1583883099)
If you allow a person never having even thought about getting a US car I have been inspired by the new C7 as a sporty looking, high technology and affordable fun sports car. Any of the older versions never caught my fancy until I happened to see a magazine article about the new C7. I will buy one for sure as my very first US made car. That aught to say something about appeal to new buyers.

Welcome to the forum. :cheers:

CJJ 05-12-2013 09:39 PM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583883096)
That tells me all I need to know about you.

Lol +1

george vee 05-12-2013 10:18 PM

Chevy did go reto with the C7 name, Stingray. I think they will go retro with the C7 Z06, looks like they are bringing back the L88 name for it.
Corvettes have alway moved forward and I am glad to see they did not go retro with the C7

iVTECdailyy 05-12-2013 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by volvos80 (Post 1583883099)
If you allow a person never having even thought about getting a US car I have been inspired by the new C7 as a sporty looking, high technology and affordable fun sports car. Any of the older versions never caught my fancy until I happened to see a magazine article about the new C7. I will buy one for sure as my very first US made car. That aught to say something about appeal to new buyers.

I cannot agree with you more. I liked vettes when I was a kid (5-8 years old) because I would always choose them in video games. Growing up I was always into foreign cars (probably vowed to never buy an american car).

Upon seeing the C7 during the reveal, I was in shock. My love for the corvette was back and it will be my first purchase after medical school. :flag:

Daekwan06 05-12-2013 11:32 PM

C7 looks better than the C2.

Hell the C6 looks better than a C2.

The C2 looked great for its time, but there is no way I would want to own and daily drive anything that looks like it. The retro stuff has come and gone. Even Ford is finally letting the Mustang "retro" look go.. and starting from a blank slate. About time.

99HRDTP 05-13-2013 07:24 AM

Agreed the retro ship has sailed. Keep move forward with modernizing Corvette!:cheers:

CRABBYJ 05-13-2013 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by AORoads (Post 1583882071)
No, I would not.

And, not to argue the point, but no, the C2 is not the undisputed design of all time, and I owned (and loved) one.

Everything changes, and evolves. There is a time for everything. That was then.


:iagree:

As someone who has grown up loving every generation of the Corvette, I for one don't want to see GM go back and try to recreate the past with retro looks. I was 10 years old when the '53 Vett was introduced and waited with anticipation yearly for either a new series or even just mid cycle updates. GM never failed to excite me with each new Corvette.

The one thing I can say is that the Corvette Teams have always moved the Corvette forward and kept it fresh in successive designs. However, I will say that some generations were a little long in years before the next generation but tend to blame that on US and GM economies of the times. :flag:

Big Dan 427 05-13-2013 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583883096)
That tells me all I need to know about you.

Was that necessary? What a low life you truly are!


Originally Posted by CJJ (Post 1583882277)
playing nicely.
well done.

c2 is soo hot.

i would buy one someday if it had modern options.. Hell yea. better gass, electronics, safety. speed. I would deffinitly check it out.

Talking out of both sides of your mouth again I see!


Originally Posted by CJJ (Post 1583883922)
Lol +1

As shown here! You guys really have issues, get some help! Or is this the way you get your jollies? You both have some serious social disorders that should be addressed, probably have no friends and your co-workers can't stand either of you!:crazy::crazy2:

BlueOx 05-13-2013 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583886285)
Was that necessary? What a low life you truly are!

Low life, huh? I'm the one who showed you where you can pick up one of those abominations. BTW, what it told me I kept to myself.

Big Dan 427 05-13-2013 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583886305)
Low life, huh? I'm the one who showed you where you can pick up one of those abominations. BTW, what it told me I kept to myself.

Yes you showed me then you very coyly got in your dig, and for no provoked reason whatsoever! Why do you always feel the need to start controversy, the reason for the thread was to inquire about retro.

Point being a modern car with a C2 modified appearance would knock it out of the park. Now go ahead and tell the world what the mighty OX thinks of Big Dan.

BlueOx 05-13-2013 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583886482)
Yes you showed me then you very coyly got in your dig, and for no provoked reason whatsoever! Why do you always feel the need to start controversy, the reason for the thread was to inquire about retro.

Point being a modern car with a C2 modified appearance would knock it out of the park. Now go ahead and tell the world what the mighty OX thinks of Big Dan.

You brought this retro crap up and you got an opinion. In fact you got a lot of opinions. Deal with it.

if the new C7 had all its modern tech, chassis, suspension, interior etc. in what would be a modernized C2 body to meet safety standards how many would be even more enthused about the new car.

Big Dan 427 05-13-2013 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583886530)
You brought this retro crap up and you got an opinion. In fact you got a lot of opinions. Deal with it.

I can deal with the opinions, what I can't deal with is some internet keyboard jockey throwing jabs my way for NO FU#$%NG reason. Get over your high and mighty self and leave the thread.

BlueOx 05-13-2013 09:41 AM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583886595)
I can deal with the opinions, what I can't deal with is some internet keyboard jockey throwing jabs my way for NO FU#$%NG reason. Get over your high and mighty self and leave the thread.

You make a huge assumption that everyone loving C2s will automatically translate to everyone wanting a retro C2 version of the C7 and you were roundly told NO. If you can't handle it, I suggest you stop asking people's opinions in a CF forum, which is full of internet keyboard jockeys (:rofl:) like yourself, giving you the opinions you are asking for.

Who is the H&M guy here?

Gearhead Jim 05-13-2013 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by AORoads (Post 1583882071)
No, I would not.

And, not to argue the point, but no, the C2 is not the undisputed design of all time, and I owned (and loved) one.

Everything changes, and evolves. There is a time for everything. That was then.

:iagree:

We too owned and loved a C2 (1967 vert w/hardtop, small block).
It looked great but the aerodynamics were horrible.
Luggage had to be put in behind the seats.

IMHO, the C6 looks better. Not so sure about the C7, since I've seen only pictures.

ZL-1 05-13-2013 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by RC000E (Post 1583882259)
C2 is a horror story in the aero dept and would lose every race it ever entered. Wonder how that C2 body design does at 200mph vs the competition...hmmm? You aren't going to compete in market of modern supercars with an old hoopty.

The retro movement was a mistake as is, but everyone was doing it, so for a period of time, it worked. The people with money to spend wanted that...so they got it. The market has changed...we all know what happened in the 60's, now those of use who weren't alive then got to watch those guys relive their high school days by buying new versions.....can we all move on now? How about we do something....NEW...scary word...NEW!


You're young. I'm old . But I agree with you 100%

I've owned a number of big block 66 and 67s. I liked them in spite of the bad aero. But now they look kind of silly to me



.

tuxnharley 05-13-2013 11:24 AM


Originally Posted by RC000E (Post 1583882259)
C2 is a horror story in the aero dept and would lose every race it ever entered. Wonder how that C2 body design does at 200mph vs the competition...hmmm? You aren't going to compete in market of modern supercars with an old hoopty.

The retro movement was a mistake as is, but everyone was doing it, so for a period of time, it worked. The people with money to spend wanted that...so they got it. The market has changed...we all know what happened in the 60's, now those of use who weren't alive then got to watch those guys relive their high school days by buying new versions.....can we all move on now? How about we do something....NEW...scary word...NEW!

Agree about the aero; my C2 is scary/front end light at 120 mph+, but - ya might wanna revisit your statement about race losses. That's just plain ignorant. Maybe ya shoulda been alive then to know what you're talking about!:lol:

Sounds like maybe your high school days were the period when there wasn't much to get excited about in the automotive world? Sorry about that, junior, but you know the saying - "timing is everything"! :rofl:

Retro movement was a "mistake"? Tell that to Ford/Mustang, Chevy/ Camaro, Dodge/Charger/Challerger, and oh yeah, VW/Beetle 2 and 3. I think they all have been profitable, no?

Hell, I don't like them all myself, but just because you are too young to appreciate them doesn't mean they are a "mistake". There's a bigger market out there than just you!:yesnod:

:cheers:

tuxnharley 05-13-2013 11:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by volvos80 (Post 1583883099)
If you allow a person never having even thought about getting a US car I have been inspired by the new C7 as a sporty looking, high technology and affordable fun sports car. Any of the older versions never caught my fancy until I happened to see a magazine article about the new C7. I will buy one for sure as my very first US made car. That aught to say something about appeal to new buyers.

See below...............

:cheers:

Big Dan 427 05-13-2013 01:25 PM

Nice post Tux! And in reality the C2 aero (body reference here) probably would not be that bad with a modern day stance, full length splitter, diffuser etc. The old car had suspension that would float in part because of the aero but I'm sure also due to how antiquated it is in comparison to what we've all become accustomed to. Frankly the C2 body in appearance looks very aero, especially coming from a time when most cars were square blocks.

Simply put IMO a tweaked C2 body on a everything else modern set up would sell better than a C7, the few dozen people on here who feel differently are fly specs in the big picture.

04_Z06_CE 05-13-2013 01:28 PM

Sorry Bro, Aint no C2 the best looking Vette. Not even close

Big Dan 427 05-13-2013 01:34 PM

No need to be sorry Bro, it's the old blondes/redheads/brunettes thing!

ZL-1 05-13-2013 01:51 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583888617)

... a tweaked C2 body on a everything else modern set up would sell better than a C7 to a few dozen people on here.


Fixed it for ya :lol:

bmacZO6 05-13-2013 04:24 PM


Originally Posted by tuxnharley (Post 1583887564)
Agree about the aero; my C2 is scary/front end light at 120 mph+, but - ya might wanna revisit your statement about race losses. That's just plain ignorant. Maybe ya shoulda been alive then to know what you're talking about!:lol:


Tux, I suspect RC will jump in to defend himself but I interpreted his post to mean a current version of the C2 would be at a huge aero disadvantage today and would lose races because of it. I don't think he was referring to the historical results of races.

As far as looks and the C2 I think the C7 is far and away the best looking version to date. The next best is C6 followed closely by the C5. Old cars just look old to me and I have no desire to chase a design from my youth.

Racer 05-14-2013 12:57 AM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583886285)
Was that necessary? What a low life you truly are!



Talking out of both sides of your mouth again I see!



As shown here! You guys really have issues, get some help! Or is this the way you get your jollies? You both have some serious social disorders that should be addressed, probably have no friends and your co-workers can't stand either of you!:crazy::crazy2:

Still making friends I see Troll.......err....I mean Dan. :U

Racer 05-14-2013 12:59 AM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583886482)
Yes you showed me then you very coyly got in your dig, and for no provoked reason whatsoever! Why do you always feel the need to start controversy, the reason for the thread was to inquire about retro.

Point being a modern car with a C2 modified appearance would knock it out of the park. Now go ahead and tell the world what the mighty OX thinks of Big Dan.

:sleep::sleep::sleep:

Big Dan 427 05-14-2013 03:23 PM

Hmmm, retro has come and gone yet they're calling it a STINGRAY! Nothing like going backwards to a retro name!

BlueOx 05-14-2013 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583898968)
Hmmm, retro has come and gone yet they're calling it a STINGRAY! Nothing like going backwards to a retro name!

Yeah! Thank goodness they didn't bastardize a great old Corvette name like "Grand Sport"!:D

foreverfuelie 05-14-2013 04:25 PM

I agree no retro but, for those who want the C1 or C2 with all the modern conveniences and techno upgrades there ARE aftermarket suppliers out there with their palms up just waiting for you. They will even supply the C5 or C6 to make the transition. Nothing stands in your way except cubic dollars.

Daekwan06 05-14-2013 08:42 PM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583899418)
Yeah! Thank goodness they didn't bastardize a great old Corvette name like "Grand Sport"!:D

How dare they even call it a Corvette!! Who wants a car with a name that has been around 60 years?

They should have just called the new car "The C7"!! :D

1985 Corvette 05-15-2013 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583899418)
Yeah! Thank goodness they didn't bastardize a great old Corvette name like "Grand Sport"!:D

Considering what it originally was, yeah they bastardized it quite well with the C4 and C6. C2 is a great design..... but I like my modern Vettes C4-C7 much more. They've got the go fast to match the looks.

Dominic Toretto 05-15-2013 03:16 PM

As much as I would love to see a modern C2, or C3, one of the greater feats of Corvette is that it is always bringing new stuff to the table. I don't think a retro Corvette from Bowling Green would continue the tradition of the Corvette brand. I now have a 2012 Mustang GT and think that for the pony/muscle cars it works well since the classic designs always looked better than the new ones imo and brings back a since of nastalgia to not only the car itself but it's presence on the road. I instantly feel like a travelled back in time to the 60 and 70s when I get in my 2012 car and I was born in the 80s lol. But for cars like Corvette, Ferrari, etc, it just wouldn't be "on point."

-Alex

Big Dan 427 05-16-2013 07:40 AM

Without anyone getting their panties all bunched up let me cordially ask, why is it okay to bring back the name "Stingray" which is totally 60's retro yet a modern day C2 body on what in essence is everything else C7 not feasible? I mean really, I hear Stingray and I think 60's just like I would if someone told me the new Camaro had a 396 in it. And for those who think the retro doesn't work, well as Tux said Camaro/Mustang/Beetle/
Ford GT/Challenger/Charger...you get the point. Every one of those cars are massively successful, the Camaro in part helped GM out of its doldrums. A modern version C2 appearance would sell better than the C7 IMO.

gthal 05-16-2013 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583913102)
Without anyone getting their panties all bunched up let me cordially ask, why is it okay to bring back the name "Stingray" which is totally 60's retro yet a modern day C2 body on what in essence is everything else C7 not feasible? I mean really, I hear Stingray and I think 60's just like I would if someone told me the new Camaro had a 396 in it. And for those who think the retro doesn't work, well as Tux said Camaro/Mustang/Beetle/
Ford GT/Challenger/Charger...you get the point. Every one of those cars are massively successful, the Camaro in part helped GM out of its doldrums. A modern version C2 appearance would sell better than the C7 IMO.

The name is branding/marketing only. The car itself is different. I do agree a new version of the C2 would sell well to a "group" of people but I don't believe it would do as well in the broader market. I'm 40 and the Stingray of yesteryear is attractive to me but would hold no appeal today. Maybe if I was 55 and had grown up lusting after the car when I was younger but that's not the case.

If you want to take market share from European brands you don't do that with retro designs IMO. I think you need to separate the >50 year old Corvette fan who understands and loves the Stingray legacy from the rest of the market. Porsche guys, as an example, could care less about an old, retro design IMO so I think it depends on who you want to attract to the car.

Just look at the responses in this thread... most seem to not want the retro style. At the end of the day, who knows but you have to believe GM had more info and better analysis than us in determining whether to go retro or progressive and modern.

Bill17601 05-16-2013 08:22 AM

How then would you evolve the retro car? Where do you go from there? A C3 redo?

Unfortunately the car would go great guns then sales would crash. As an example the PT cruiser. The Chevrolet HHR.

The C7 of today is a 21st century car. It will evolve from this point to the C8 as it should. Nostalgia only works for those who lived it or who live in the past. IMHO.

Big Dan 427 05-16-2013 08:36 AM

Thanks for your input and question Bill. You make a great point, where to go moving forward. I guess we'll see the path of the others I mentioned, they have not crashed. The PT and HHR were not historical like the Vette and the others although the PT did have a nice run. If you mean the C7 is 21st century in design I agree 100%, but let me ask you this. If Ford built a GT40/Ford GT for under 100k and built volume would you buy one? I know I would, I had one at MSRP of 166K. They easily got away with that price b/c they knew they were only building 4000 units, if they knew going in that they could sell them for under 100k and planned to build 1500-2000 a year it would have been a massive profit generator and huge success. and it truly is modern yet an imitation of the 60's Lemans dominator. Just some interesting thoughts, no right or wrong.

Dominic Toretto 05-16-2013 08:42 AM

Dan, I think from a design standpoint the C2 wouldn't be as aerodynamic as a C7. Lot's of original Corvette "names" have been reused: LS7, Grand Sport, ZR1, ZO6 etc and I personally think it is cool to keep those names familiar. I do think it would be really cool to see a modern C2, C3 would be even better IMO. I think, for my previous reason also, that for the Corvette to be a world competitor it can't be retro in styling. Sure it carries certain Corvette features, the front fender arches, rwd, front engine V8, etc but to make the car look identical to a previous generation would not be a successful car to most buyers. Plus many new buyers won't be so familiar with previous generations and want something contemporary in design. I'm just guessing but if I were cross shopping between a new MB, BMW, Audi and Corvette, seeing a Corvette that is designed based off of a previous generation would immediately turn me off if I wanted something contemporary.

-Alex

punky 05-16-2013 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by Bill17601 (Post 1583913308)
How then would you evolve the retro car? Where do you go from there? A C3 redo?

Unfortunately the car would go great guns then sales would crash. As an example the PT cruiser. The Chevrolet HHR.

The C7 of today is a 21st century car. It will evolve from this point to the C8 as it should. Nostalgia only works for those who lived it or who live in the past. IMHO.

Good point and great post.

Lets enjoy the C7 for what it is and not complain about tailights. Fixation in the past is not healthy. Things will not ever be as they were in 1963 again, that goes for cars, politics, and just about anything else.

The vast majority of us enjoy or have enjoyed our c5s an c6s. The c7 will be an upgraded model for sure. It would just make good sense to accept this fact.

Big Dan 427 05-16-2013 09:04 AM

Alex I'm sure you are quite correct regarding the aero, but I would also have confidence that the engineers would be able to resolve that with what I feel would be a modernization of the body and all the other implementations that allow for better aero in todays world. Your statement regarding contemporary also holds a lot of water, as we all know GM is going for a different buyer and it is quite possible that buyer would not be one that is attracted by retro styling. On the other hand the current dynamic is what got Corvette to where it is and certainly wouldn't be a slouch in carrying the product forward. Thanks for the comments, good to be able to converse w/out any tension.

punky 05-16-2013 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583913382)
Thanks for your input and question Bill. You make a great point, where to go moving forward. I guess we'll see the path of the others I mentioned, they have not crashed. The PT and HHR were not historical like the Vette and the others although the PT did have a nice run. If you mean the C7 is 21st century in design I agree 100%, but let me ask you this. If Ford built a GT40/Ford GT for under 100k and built volume would you buy one? I know I would, I had one at MSRP of 166K. They easily got away with that price b/c they knew they were only building 4000 units, if they knew going in that they could sell them for under 100k and planned to build 1500-2000 a year it would have been a massive profit generator and huge success. and it truly is modern yet an imitation of the 60's Lemans dominator. Just some interesting thoughts, no right or wrong.

A Ford GT for less than 100K, that would be the ticket. I'd be in line for that!

Big Dan 427 05-16-2013 09:17 AM

@ drmustang, you and me both! I guess they didn't want to ruin the aura that surrounds the car!
@ gthal, your points are well stated, especially the Porsche reference. As for this thread, well a few dozen people (most of who would go against me if I said the sky is blue) certainly can not reflect on the worlds opinion, but I hear what you're saying! Thx

BlueOx 05-16-2013 09:24 AM

Why is this hypo in the C7 section? It's clearly an OTHER CAR topic.

Isn't there an Ugly Body Kits section?:rofl:

http://www.karlkustomcorvettes.com/i...how/slide4.png

Dominic Toretto 05-16-2013 09:25 AM

"Alex I'm sure you are quite correct regarding the aero, but I would also have confidence that the engineers would be able to resolve that with what I feel would be a modernization of the body and all the other implementations that allow for better aero in todays world. Your statement regarding contemporary also holds a lot of water, as we all know GM is going for a different buyer and it is quite possible that buyer would not be one that is attracted by retro styling. On the other hand the current dynamic is what got Corvette to where it is and certainly wouldn't be a slouch in carrying the product forward. Thanks for the comments, good to be able to converse w/out any tension."

I agree Dan, and count me in line for the Ford GT under $100k :thumbs:

-Alex

skank 05-16-2013 11:12 AM

Some of my exotic car friends never gave the Corvette a second look. They do now. While they still may not ultimately buy one they are giving respect to Corvette that was never there before. The ALMS racing program has single handedly done this for Vette. Instant credibility when you go over and clean the clocks of Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin at LeMans. They have finally addressed all perceived faults whether they were true or not. All in a new modern design that will advance Corvette on the track and street while further dominating the race scene.

punky 05-16-2013 11:28 AM


Originally Posted by skank (Post 1583914679)
Some of my exotic car friends never gave the Corvette a second look. They do now. While they still may not ultimately buy one they are giving respect to Corvette that was never there before. The ALMS racing program has single handedly done this for Vette. Instant credibility when you go over and clean the clocks of Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin at LeMans. They have finally addressed all perceived faults whether they were true or not. All in a new modern design that will advance Corvette on the track and street while further dominating the race scene.

I love your choice of words.

"Clean the clocks of Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin".

I hope the foriegn car lovers that troll here read that.

Great post!

tuxnharley 05-16-2013 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by drmustang (Post 1583914823)
I love your choice of words.

"Clean the clocks of Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin".

I hope the foriegn car lovers that troll here read that.

Great post!

:iagree:

Except that I would have added "..........even with additional weight penalties and horse power restrictions!". :thumbs:

:cheers:

punky 05-16-2013 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583913686)
@ drmustang, you and me both! I guess they didn't want to ruin the aura that surrounds the car!
@ gthal, your points are well stated, especially the Porsche reference. As for this thread, well a few dozen people (most of who would go against me if I said the sky is blue) certainly can not reflect on the worlds opinion, but I hear what you're saying! Thx

Could you imagine a Ford GT/GT40 powered by the current 5.0 Coyote turbocharged to like 700 HP. That would be insane. I want one now!

Big Dan 427 05-16-2013 12:49 PM

DR, factory they were 550 and came with a Eaton S/C. My buddy did a pulley, exhaust, whipple and intake, the car is an animal. One of the most beautiful cars out there IMO.

punky 05-16-2013 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 (Post 1583915488)
DR, factory they were 550 and came with a Eaton S/C. My buddy did a pulley, exhaust, whipple and intake, the car is an animal. One of the most beautiful cars out there IMO.

Absolutely gorgeous piece. Local dealer had one for well over a year, let it go for near invoice which was around 145K or so. I considered it but had 4 cars, 4 motorcycles, a boat and some other stuff at the time, hindsight says it would have been the right move. I would not be shy if there is a 2nd chance on a new version of same.

Big Dan 427 05-16-2013 01:24 PM

I readily admit I blew it by selling that car. It was a Tungsten Grey with all four options, I paid MSRP which was $166945 and traded it three years later with 7k miles on it for 150k. Still kick myself...I'm going to go sulk now!! LOL I did enjoy the car I must say.


Red1990VT 05-19-2013 12:18 AM

Actually, to a degree the Corvette, including the C7 from the doors forward (not from the doors back though), IS Retro to a fairly large degree. Modernized retro, if that makes sense to you, but retro nonetheless. Chevy has been consistent in taking the best styling cues from the all time best selling Corvettes (the 1978 and 1979 model years) and modernizing and carrying those styling cues forward with each new generation. You can see some of the 1978 Corvette in every C4, 5, 6 and (doors forward) C7 built.

For example, you can see a lot of 1978 Corvette in the C6 (despite the exposed headlights) as the C6 still has very much the C3 shark shape, the excellent rearward visibility and cargo space enhancing glassback, the signature four round tail lights, and thus the C6 is at once identifiably a classically styled Corvette from any and all angles, but also at the same time very modern looking.

I know the C6 sales dropped off, but I would read that more as the economy crashing in 2008 than any commentary on the C6 being a modernized yet in many good ways retro design. Before the economy imploded, the C6 was selling quite well...

In the main we Corvette owners (I own 5 with plans to buy more) expect continuity of styling across generations and true Corvette lovers have been quite satisfied with that, up to the big departure rear of the doors on the 2014.

So I would suggest the Corvette IS Retro, and it IS modern, all at the same time.

Again with a major exception for the Camaro-esque back end of the C7, kudos to Chevy for decades of excellent retro-modern Corvette styling and continuity.

85scott 05-19-2013 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Red1990VT (Post 1583935648)
Actually, to a degree the Corvette, including the C7 from the doors forward (not from the doors back though), IS Retro to a fairly large degree. Modernized retro, if that makes sense to you, but retro nonetheless. Chevy has been consistent in taking the best styling cues from the all time best selling Corvettes (the 1978 and 1979 model years) and modernizing and carrying those styling cues forward with each new generation. You can see some of the 1978 Corvette in every C4, 5, 6 and (doors forward) C7 built.

For example, you can see a lot of 1978 Corvette in the C6 (despite the exposed headlights) as the C6 still has very much the C3 shark shape, the excellent rearward visibility and cargo space enhancing glassback, the signature four round tail lights, and thus the C6 is at once identifiably a classically styled Corvette from any and all angles, but also at the same time very modern looking.

I know the C6 sales dropped off, but I would read that more as the economy crashing in 2008 than any commentary on the C6 being a modernized yet in many good ways retro design. Before the economy imploded, the C6 was selling quite well...

In the main we Corvette owners (I own 5 with plans to buy more) expect continuity of styling across generations and true Corvette lovers have been quite satisfied with that, up to the big departure rear of the doors on the 2014.

So I would suggest the Corvette IS Retro, and it IS modern, all at the same time.

Again with a major exception for the Camaro-esque back end of the C7, kudos to Chevy for decades of excellent retro-modern Corvette styling and continuity.

:iagree: The C6 fastback glass reminds me of 1978-82's.

Even on the new C7, you can clearly see how GM usued the C6 as the blueprint, particularly from front & side views.

The front end is basically C6 still, except with vertical headlights now, plus a "totally new" hoodscoop. But overall height, width, and length stay almost identical.

So I really don't see the huge difference some claim between C6 & C7 design as far as basic shape. Mostly changes in angles, squares used instead of circles, etc.

And that's good - the C6 is the best-looking Corvette built to date!

rcallen484 05-19-2013 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by 85scott (Post 1583941548)
:iagree: The C6 fastback glass reminds me of 1978-82's.

Even on the new C7, you can clearly see how GM usued the C6 as the blueprint, particularly from front & side views.

The front end is basically C6 still, except with vertical headlights now, plus a "totally new" hoodscoop. But overall height, width, and length stay almost identical.

So I really don't see the huge difference some claim between C6 & C7 design as far as basic shape. Mostly changes in angles, squares used instead of circles, etc.

And that's good - the C6 is the best-looking Corvette built to date!

You understand it is not a hoodscoop nor an air intake at all don't you?

Bill17601 05-19-2013 08:45 PM

Yes the C 6 is the best looking car to date.. But come fall it will graciously take 2nd place..on the streets of America.

SouthernSon 05-19-2013 08:50 PM

My first car was a '64 coupe. Although I have really liked the style in the past it is nowadays beginning to get really dated. I remember seeing the first '68 on a small card, maybe from a bubble gum packet, and thought that was definitely the Cat's meow. I bought a '68 and enjoyed it immensely but now, it too, is getting a little long in the tooth as far as styling. The body designers for every new model get my complete thumbs up. :thumbs::cheers:

CaryBob 05-19-2013 08:52 PM

I had a C2 in the late 60s but I can't image it being in style in 2014. If there is a resemblance between the C2 and C7 it has completely escaped me.

ZL-1 05-19-2013 08:57 PM


Originally Posted by 85scott (Post 1583941548)
:iagree: The C6 fastback glass reminds me of 1978-82's.

Don't forget the C4 and C5. The 1978's basket handle and huge rear glass continued for 35 years, from 1978 through 2013 coupes. It caused some of us to buy verts instead.



.

User 2623 05-19-2013 09:30 PM

Just ridiculous looking cars.
But to each his own.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


Originally Posted by BlueOx (Post 1583882584)


ZL-1 05-19-2013 09:33 PM


Originally Posted by SouthernSon (Post 1583941627)
My first car was a '64 coupe. Although I have really liked the style in the past it is nowadays beginning to get really dated. I remember seeing the first '68 on a small card, maybe from a bubble gum packet, and thought that was definitely the Cat's meow. I bought a '68 and enjoyed it immensely but now, it too, is getting a little long in the tooth as far as styling. The body designers for every new model get my complete thumbs up. :thumbs::cheers:

:iagree: :thumbs:

vetteLT193 05-20-2013 10:08 AM

I think GM needs a limited run department. There is a production number that is low enough to get you out of all the crash testing, epa crap, etc. So keep all the cars under that number.

Make retro looking cars that people want and would buy... with a warranty.

Think... Olds 442, Trans Am, Chevelle, GTO, etc. They could even do later model stuff like the Camaro from the 80's. There are people out there that LOVE the look of certain cars and would buy a new version of it again if they could. They could do a mix match of retro looking and actual retro bodied cars.

GM could charge a nice premium over the model it was based on and the department would be profitable (although not high profit). It would be more of a PR thing and a great one.

bigwoolyg 05-20-2013 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by gthal (Post 1583882074)
I think the retro thing has been played out. I don't believe it would sell as well nor would it attract new buyers. It would perpetuate the same issues GM would have going forward with the Corvette brand if it didn't modernize.

If you look at the next Mustang (or early projections) it is also going the modern route as it is hard to live in the past and also move forward. That isn't to say the C2 wasn't a great design and beautiful but it would largely be the traditional/old school buyer and that group isn't getting bigger. You aren't taking people who are currently in European brands into the Corvette fold with a C2 design today... the only people who would love that idea are those who grew up with the Corvette and like the style from that era.

It was a nice design for the time but the times have changed... as has the market. Living in the past and not evolving quickly enough is half the problem the North American auto manufacturers had in the last decade. You can't compete by staying in the past... that has been pretty much proven.

All just my opinion... obviously.

:iagree: times a billion or so..

it's all about moving forward. tired of retro/remakes of things. If you want that there are plenty of resto-mods out there which are of course, awesome, but a manufacturer has to keep evolving things (an in some cases with some generations devolving) to move it forward..

gthal 05-20-2013 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by vetteLT193 (Post 1583945027)
I think GM needs a limited run department. There is a production number that is low enough to get you out of all the crash testing, epa crap, etc. So keep all the cars under that number.

Make retro looking cars that people want and would buy... with a warranty.

Think... Olds 442, Trans Am, Chevelle, GTO, etc. They could even do later model stuff like the Camaro from the 80's. There are people out there that LOVE the look of certain cars and would buy a new version of it again if they could. They could do a mix match of retro looking and actual retro bodied cars.

GM could charge a nice premium over the model it was based on and the department would be profitable (although not high profit). It would be more of a PR thing and a great one.

I don't think this can realistically be done and not lose money or need to charge a lot. Low production run cars make it difficult to recover initial investment in R&D and production start up. I suppose if it were just a body kit type of car maybe.

I also don't think you get by crash test ratings either way... even if GM could it would carry liability risk. Not a bad idea but not a practical one IMO for a large behemoth of a company with a cost structure that differs a lot from specialty car companies.


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