DIY wide body conversion project
 

After thinking about it for some time and doing lots of research on the process, I decided to launch off on a complete (front and rear) wide body conversion on my ’15 Z51. I track the car extensively, and the room for wider wheels and tires was my primary motivation, but the looks are definitely a factor too. I don’t like the ‘add on’ look of some fender extension kits, even though that route is simpler, so I opted for genuine GM Z06 body parts. There is a kit available for that as well, but you will still have to either arrange for the installation at a body shop, or do the work yourself. That being the case, I decided to set about ordering the parts directly myself to save some money, and to do the installation myself as well, both to save money and because I’m retired with lots of spare time, and I love hands-on car projects.

In this thread I’ll take you through the project from start to finish, but please realize that I am in no hurry, and I take lots of breaks. :D I’ll try to distill my reports of how long each phase takes down to actual time spent working, so what actually takes me effectively all day might only require two hours of serious work on your part. I’ll also save you a lot of time on the research as well as a couple of handy notes on things you can only learn by doing them (or reading this thread).

If you have a body shop do all the work be prepared for a hefty price, as there is a ton of labor involved. If you decide to tackle this project yourself, you’ll need plenty of garage and storage space in order to have enough room to work, while at the same time storing new body panels. Seven body panels and four wheel well liners take up a lot of space! You also need to understand just how big this project is. In addition to removing most of the exterior body panels, the doors and seats must be completely removed to allow access to the aperture panel for its removal and replacement. And while the other panels are pretty simple to remove, the aperture panels, which are much larger than you think, are permanently bonded to the frame with epoxy, and require a heat gun and pry tools to remove. The new panels must also be painted. I was very fortunate to find a local custom body shop whose owner was quite interested in my plans, and he did the paint work for a very reasonable price.

The first thing you’ll need to do is order the parts, either in kit form from Weapon-X or other vendor, or direct from online dealerships like I did. All together I used three online GM dealership parts departments plus ebay, since some would not ship large parts, some charged outrageous shipping fees, and nobody had the lowest prices on everything. Tedious for sure, but I saved over $2000 off the bundle price. Either way you’ll need the following Z06 parts:

2 front fenders
2 front wheel well liners
2 aperture panels (rockers)
2 rear quarter panels
2 rear wheel well liners
1 rear (upper) bumper cover
Z06 rear spoiler (rear end is now wider so the Stingray/Z51 unit won’t fit)
2 front fender vent grilles
2 front fender moldings
2 quarter panel rear brake cooling scoop liners
2 rear valence/bumper cover vent grilles
Fuel compartment door
Assorted fasteners and clips, many of which can be reused original parts

I don’t know if the kit vendors include the front fender vent grilles & moldings, and the rear bumper vent grilles, but they definitely don’t include the spoiler, assuming you want one. The original rear lower valance from your Stingray stays, as does the front bumper cover. The wider rear bumper cover still mates to the original lower valance by virtue of the wider Z06 vent grilles. The new, wider front fenders taper inward at the forward end and fit properly against the original front bumper cover.

I received the parts I ordered about ten days ago, and took the body panels to the custom shop for painting. We decided to paint the panels off the car, then do any blending, if necessary, after reassembly. I picked up the finished panels on monday (they appear to match perfectly), and began disassembly of the car on tuesday. Its late now and I’m tired, so I’ll post pics tomorrow.

JV

Wow, that's a project! I look forward to seeing your progress! Did you think about changing the color of your ride at all? Seems like you probably could've since you're swapping almost everything out.

Good luck! :thumbs:

Good luck looks like a lot of work.

Ever thought of just trading in/up instead? :crazy2:

I'm curious also what the price difference was to just getting a new GS?

Interested to see the finished project

Can't wait to see it. Good luck. :thumbs:

We need lots of pictures!

Good luck with the project!

Thanks for all the good luck wishes, as well as the :crazy2:, which I’ll take as good natured ribbing. As for why I would undertake such a large project rather than trade up to another vette, I buy a sports car every ten or twelve years because it really lights a fire in me, and I have no desire to hop into the newest model. This one is a shark gray Z51 A8 with light gray/black leather LT3 interior and carbon fiber roof. I have also spent a fair amount of time and money customizing it further with more carbon fiber, such as the dash and shift console panels, hood vent and outside mirrors. I also upgraded the track handling with adjustable coilovers and heavy duty sway bars, and the sound with a Borla exhaust. Now I really like it. I didn’t buy a Z06 originally because I wanted a naturally aspirated engine for the track. My costs so far have been $4000 for wide body panels and trim and $1900 for the body shop to paint them. My time and labor are free, so unless there are unexpected costs, that will be my total investment. Caveat: Your Mileage May Vary! Here are the pictures from my work yesterday. As I expected, I spent most of the day to get to this point but actual time working on the car was about 3 hours.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...9167343afc.jpg

After getting the car up on jack stands or a lift you must disconnect the battery negative cable because you will be removing the seats which have side impact air bags, and you don't want to risk getting a face full. Before doing that, be sure to lower the windows because you'll be removing the doors to access the aperture panel.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0da654c978.jpg

Procedures for removing the lower valance and then the rear bumper cover are covered in detail in sticky posts on this forum. To remove the lower vent grilles and the tail light frames I used a medium sized allen wrench. Angle the short end through the openings, rotate it so the arm is behind a strong section, then hold the long end tightly with pliers and pull to begin disengaging the clips. Remember, you'll reuse the lower valance, tail lights and their frames, and the wiring harness, third brake light, license plate lamps and lock mounted inside the rear bumper cover, but not the rear bumper cover itself or the lower vent grilles.

I cannot stress enough the need to keep all fasteners in zip lock bags, labeled according to, and kept with, the panel they were removed from. Also, pictures of each area will come in very handy when you are putting everything back together.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...37213be35b.jpg

You DO NOT need to disengage the deck lid release cable from the latch located in the frame, because you will remove the other end of that cable and its actuator mounted on the inside of the bumper cover. When you pull the bumper cover away from the car, have a large cardboard box positioned to support it while you disconnect the wiring connectors and the key and push button release mechanisms.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...1adde434bc.jpg

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Have blankets or other padding to lay the bumper cover on while removing the wiring harness, clips, tail lights and third brake light, all of which will be reused. I used a chaise lounge cushion. Take lots of pictures of the inside of the bumper cover for reference when installing everything in the new one. Be careful when removing the license plate lamps, its easy to damage the surrounding area. Disconnect the wiring connectors first, then angle the lamp housings to fit through the opening from the outside. The forked, weed-digging garden tool in the pictures is indispensable for removing many of the clips, especially the ones with round heads.

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As you can see here I've already installed the larger LG transmission oil cooler.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ca60164b87.jpg

The rear quarter panels are quite easy and straightforward to remove. Remove the wheel well liner first, as you will need access to the screw connecting the front edge of the quarter panel to the rear edge of the aperture panel. Then just remove the torx screws around the perimeter and pull it out rearward. Remove and keep the flange at the rear edge which has the orange bayonet fittings to align the rear bumper cover. The drivers side quarter panel is also attached by the fueling door lock mechanism and the overflow drain tube.

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This view shows how big the aperture panel is. It is shaped like a very wide 'U', and runs from just under the edge of the quarter window, downward and then across the rocker area, and continues up the forward section of the door opening to near the windshield. This afternoon I'll start on the front end, removing the front bumper cover (which is reused) to allow removal of the front fenders. Then I'll attack the apertures.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...2716e170b6.jpg

Jet!! Very nice.... I have my panels for the rear widebody right now at the shop.... The rocker is the only thing I'm slightly worried about.... Ill probably destroy the factory rockers, but that's ok ha

Keep up the awesome work, this thread will be viewed for a LONG time

Looking forward to seeing finished front fenders. Perhaps GM will see something better than adding spates! I'm planning to replace my 2014 Z51 with a 2019 GS and perhaps by then they will see fit to get new front fender molds for it and the Z06!

Holy Moly... I am subscribing to this to see the progress. Nice work! I just replaced my front bumper, and passenger side wheel well liner and headlight, and was surprised at how modular the car is, and how easy it is to work on.

:lurk:

Cool project! Since you are removing the aperture panels and have an A8, will you be installing the latest trans cooling solution that involves running cooling lines forward under the aperture panel?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rade-poll.html
Great pictures, will be following this thread.

No, I won't be needing the forward mounted secondary transmission fluid cooler because I just installed my OEM cooler (removed and replaced with the larger LG unit) as a secondary, under the rear cross member. That solved my transmission temp problems.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...t-problem.html

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7fb552213a.jpg

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ttt
 

Man looks like I may be doing this wide body over the winter and not the blower in the car until next winter. Plus the LG trans cooler also. I got the auto trans pan from them and chged that factory stuff to S/amsoil in the auto trans.

Man LG makes some great parts for all of these cars. By the way great looking work on the car cant wait to see it done. Going to give me something to looking to do this winter..

Can you provide a list of all the parts # that would be required to turn a Z51 into a "true" wide body?

I'm trying to get a price estimation for a complete job. I don't have enough car knowledge so I wouldn't take on this challenge myself. I'd have to take it to a reliable body shop or dealership and have the work done there.

Thanks for the pics, helps me with the bumper wiring.

The Z06 gas cap is different too.

I didn't even notice the z51 spoiler was shorter till you pointed it out and I went and looked, wrecked my night. Not sure if I care to spend another 500+ at this point for and uglier z06 version.

They want 10 grand to paint my panels. I hate canada.

Thanks for doing this. These pics will help a lot of people, even if they aren't doing a wide body.
:lurk:

Subscribed!!!

that's what I was thinking. Oh well, perhaps he's looking at it as a challenge.

Good luck OP. :cheers:

Subscribed!!! awesome project

These are the correct part numbers as of today. Please double check before you order because GM has changed several numbers recently. And remember that when you look up a part number it must be identified with the notation "with Z06" otherwise it can be a stingray part which will be what you already have!

Front Fenders: 23360232 and 23360233
Front Wheel Well Liners: 23327373 and 23259924 (new number)
Apertures: 23292866 and 23292867 (new number)
Rear Quarters: 23242838 and 23197627 (new number)
Rear Wheel Well Liners: 22887232 and 23327813 (new number)
Rear Bumper Cover: 23368629
Fuel Compartment Door: 22911933
Front Fender Side Vents: 23122770 and 23122771
Nuts to attach Side Vents, 6 needed: 11546454
Front Fender Molding Strips: 23315196 and 23315197
Rear Valence Side Grilles: 23254476 and 23254477
Quarter Panel to Rear Bumper Attaching Retainers: 23366039 and 23366040
Quarter Panel Inner Braces: 20980050 and 20980051


JV

Wow that's a lot of parts! I am impressed you were able to get it down to a science. Especially with all the small nick and nacks that aren't visible to the eye on a "fully built car."

My dream is to get a Corvette C7 with the wide body of a GS, but:
1) Keep the "shorter" spoiler design of a z51
2) Keep the "smaller" side vents w/ stringray of a z51.
3) Michelin to make tires in all season sizes to fit the rims of z06 wheels. This is pretty much a necessity where I live.
4) Full length "G3-Carbon" side fender flares that combine the spats and the mud flap into one. (They're currently working on developing this as we speak)

May I ask two more questions on your end product?:
1) Will you be able to keep the "small" z51 side vents or have to add on the "bigger" GS/Z06 style vents. I don't like the larger vents (hence why I did not get a GS).

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ebd2d09f2.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ab2dc446b3.jpg


2) Since you mention the rear is now "wider," I'm assuming it is impossible to maintain the "clean" look of the Z51 spoiler. Now you will have to throw on one of these bad boys? (Bummer if that is the case; at least for my end)

http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2015/01/mg_8890gr.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...a11505a18a.jpg

I hear ya on both those points! I also prefer the fender side vents and rear spoiler on the Z51, but I actually need the down force of the Z06 wickerbill for the track, and the wide body fender only comes with the wider opening for the Z06 vent, so I've learned to like them. I'm going to add two small touches to the fender vent that will make it more to my taste. I'm going to replace the small 'Z06' badge which attaches to the center of the vent with either one that says 'Z51' or something I can have made to order, and there is a black 'shadow' vinyl strip available which runs along the horizontal crease at the top of the vent, towards the rear, about 14" long and tapering to a point. It gives the vent a more dimensional look. Here it is on my car now.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...49c1af313b.jpg

I've been waiting for someone to not only tackle this project, but share all that's involved. I look forward to seeing the results. Godspeed.

I got a lot done today, so lets get to it. Next up are the front fenders. There are more fasteners here than on the quarter panels, but its no more complex. The headlights come out first because there are fender attaching points under them. First remove the two screws holding the small attach plate for the upper corner of the front bumper cover. These are just above and to the inboard side of the headlight (second picture, upper right). The plate has to come out otherwise the headlight will scrape against it when you pull it forward and out. Then remove the two screws which hold the headlight in place and slide the headlight assembly forward and either disconnect the wiring harness connector or just lay the headlight in the engine compartment as I did.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ddc128e475.jpg

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After the headlight is out, remove all bolts and screws shown around the forward part of the fender where it attaches to the frame. Then remove the torx screws along the top edge of the fender. There is also one hidden under the black plastic piece at the top front edge of the fender. There is another torx screw hidden under the weather stripping at the rear of the top of the fender. Remove the rubber/plastic strip shown, then pry up the flange enough to remove that last screw. There is one bolt under the rear of the fender near the door, then another which must be accessed in the door jamb. With the door open look forward near the top of the door and you'll see the 10mm bolt head. The last attachment is at the rear of the fender on the inside of the wheel well. Look rearward in the well and you'll see the last 10mm bolt head. Once all these are removed the fender will pull straight sideways away from the car.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6856a1da8a.jpg

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Be sure to save the padding attached to the rear edge of the fender with three plugs.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0971a8c98d.jpg

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Next we'll remove the doors. I didn't have any guidelines for this part but it turned out to be really simple once you know exactly what to do. With the door closed find the wiring harness behind the front edge. It is covered with a rubber boot to keep out water. Pull that rubber boot away to reveal a rectangular multi-plug. At the top of that plastic plug is a release cradle. Pull that cradle backwards and the plug can be disconnected.

CAUTION: The doors are quite heavy. Only remove the hinge bolts with the door closed and latched. It can be done with the door open partially, but it must be supported completely and solidly, otherwise it can fall on you or catch and crush your hand.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...98f0778940.jpg

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https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6eee7d9a36.jpg

CAUTION: The doors are quite heavy. Only remove the hinge bolts with the door closed and latched. It can be done with the door open partially, but it must be supported completely and solidly, otherwise it can fall on you or catch and crush your hand.

Now open the door and disconnect the rod which holds the door in the open position. It is surrounded by the rubber boot you see here. Pull that boot out and you will see a single bolt behind it attaching the rod to the frame. Remove that bolt and close the door. Look at the hinges at the front of the door. I used tape to mark the exact location for reinstallation, but that turned out to not be necessary because the dirt around them left a perfect outline. Remove the four bolts attaching the hinges to the frame (leaving the hinges attached to the door). Have a large cushion or heavy blanket to set the door on. Pull the manual door release, and holding the door on both ends pull it away from the frame. I did all this by myself, but it will be much nicer if you have a friend help out.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c2437a7313.jpg

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Next we'll remove the seats and the trim around the door frame. The trim is attached to the aperture with tabs and clips. Start at the forward end next to the corner of the dash and just pull up and away. It will sound like something is breaking but that's just the clips pulling free. The threshold plate must be pulled up gradually, starting at one end and sliding your hand under it as you move further along underneath. Now remove the seat belt where it attaches to the anchor at the outboard side of the seat. Pry open the plastic casing and remove the single Torx bolt, then slide the steel fitting downward and off. You'll need to reconnect the battery momentarily to move the seat forward, remove the two rear floor mount bolts and then run the seat aft to remove the two forward bolts. While you have power on, tilt the steering wheel all the way up and forward. Now disconnect the battery again and tilt the entire seat backwards so you can see under the front and find the large wiring harness plug. Pull the harness retaining strap away from the seat rail with a trim tool, then swing the plug latch down and unplug it. The seat is heavy but it can be lifted out by one person. Two, however, is better.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...96e71c69b8.jpg

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Remove the forward bolt covers by pulling them forward, not up!

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When removing the trim around the door opening, I got to the section that meets the overhead 'roll bar' section, at shoulder height in the rear. They appear to be connected in a way I couldn't figure out, and rather than removing both sections I just pulled them back enough to access the aperture panel. Much easier to replace them when finished that way.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...27d80efcf2.jpg

At the rate your going you be done in a week!

Great Pictures! :thumbs:

That is a crazy amount of work you are doing.

When you finish the whole project it would be great to know what your cost was.

Thanks again for sharing!

Great project!

Is this a bolt on conversion or is there panel bonding involved?

For all the people talking about trading up sales tax is a big consideration.


If I traded up to a new GS I would have paid nearly 9K in sales tax in a 2 year period and still only had 1 car.


If we had credit against sales tax I would do it, but you pay full each time here in Michigan.

This is a really interesting thread, thanks for posting! :cheers:

I am looking forward to seeing how difficult it is to remove and replace the rocker panels.

jet vet, this is the most wonderful, astounding diy thread related to cars that i have ever seen anywhere, ever! i am amazed at the depth and breadth of what you have done and are doing. as someone who has done many projects over many decades, your skill and talent make me feel like a rank amateur. running across this one thread by itself is worth dealing with the hundreds of hours of nonsense that is so prevalent on some of the ego baiting and totally waste of time and energy threads that sometimes show up here.

it never crossed my mind that you could buy the parts as reasonably as you did. kudos to what you have shown here.

replacing the transmission cooler with a better one and then using the original as a secondary with an installation that looks like it was oem design and installation....what talent and dedication to perfection!

i look forward to seeing your finished product.

i started in 1951 by replacing broken spring centerbolts and fuel pumps (often) and rebuilding the carburetor on a 47 ford, and still do some of my own work.

how do you like your coilovers? i'd be interested in any comments you have about them including ride quality, handling difference from stock and anything else you'd care to comment on.

thanks for the details that you have shared with all of us.

This is definitely gonna be one of those threads I check every time it gets bumped. Cool to read about, but the OP probably needs a wheel barrel to haul his balls around.

that was one of the subjects that crossed my mind too. if what jet vet has accomplished so far is any indication, my guess is he'll make it look like a piece of cake.

Amazing project, you're my hero for having the skills to do something of this magnitude!

What wheels are you going to use?

How much do you charge for this service? :D

I can't hide the purchase of a new GS from the wife but a little modification of my existing ride....she would never notice the difference:rofl::thumbs:

Looks like it was parked overnight at the park and ride lot in Oakland... LOL

Seriously though, this is awesome to watch.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...fc7a35390f.jpg

Holy Shamoly Batman, you are talented man.
I would be terrified of trying that and I'm pretty good with a wrench.

aperture removal tool :rofl:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...572d3bfb32.jpg

I am interested in the rockers too.


From talking to a local body shop that has done some work directly for LPE and GM he said the rockers are tricky because the amount of bonding agent determines their fitment.


I know that sounds simple but for them to fit properly it has to be done exactly right. Not like you can have some extra and squeeze it out.

Here's z51 spoiler on z06 wide body

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...1fef825d3.jpeg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...811f4802b.jpeg

Only the aperture panel has to be bonded to the frame, the fenders and quarter panels simply clip and screw into place, and they are all GM parts for the Z06. My friend at the body shop who did the painting is getting me the epoxy and loaning me his two barrelled applicator gun. Here is a picture of the new Z06 aperture panel next to the original before I start removal.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...13f2995c23.jpg

Well thanks! That comment certainly made my day :D. Growing up I learned to love working on sports cars by changing oil and spark plugs on my dad's Porsche 356 B and 912. Then later on my own 356 B, 240Z, Alpha Spyder Veloce, etc. I got rid of the two SU side draft carburetors on the 240Z and replaced them with three Webers. Then I added a cam and Abarth exhaust. What a car for a 22 year old Navy pilot!

The coilovers are only necessary if you drive hard on a road course, then they are almost a must. There is a wide range of adjustment on mine so they can provide anything from a slightly more solid ride on the street to rock steady cornering at the track.

Thanks, but according to my wife its more like I only need a thimble to carry my brain around. :ack:

Several people have asked why I didn't just upgrade. Part of the explanation is contained in my original post, but additionally my wife is resigned to the fact that I'm an incorrigible tinkerer and modifier, but if I said anything about a new vette only 18 months after buying this one, she'd absolutely freak!

Exactly correct. I realized that point when studying this project and looking closely at the existing apertures. I have carefully marked the edges of the current panel, as well as the panel-to-frame measurements all around so I can duplicate it with the new one. I'll make shims to put at various points around the perimeter in order to put the new panel in the correct position.

JV

Same here! Tell you what, if I can't get it all put back together, everybody who is subscribed to this thread is invited over to my house for a 'static display' party. I'll mount the stripped down body on a pedestal in my front yard...

Cool side note: The A-7 below was in one of my sister squadrons (the VA-105 'Gunslingers') at NAS Cecil Field, Jacksonville, FL when I was one of the 'Golden Warriors' of VA-87 in the mid '70s. It is now on display at the 'Big Daddy' Don Garlits Drag Racing Museum in Ocala, FL. Here's how it got there:

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/W...g_Racing_Plane

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...bd1a5553a1.jpg

This is what my aperture panels looked like after removing them to replace with Z06 panels... :lol:


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d75d3d00d7.jpg

Yep, I did a little 'Fred Flintstone' experimenting this afternoon! :thumbs:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...045822e41d.jpg

Looks like you're making good progress! :cheers:

Great thread. I would never attempt this, but it is sure interesting to read!

This is a Great thread. The work your doing is very impressive, thank you for sharing all the pics and continuous update.

First, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY, Second, thank you for the amazing thread. One of the truly useful threads on this board, and so unlike what most of the corvette forum has become... Kudos, you remind me of the guys back in the "old days", that used to come here to share valuable information and stories as opposed to the trolls and in-fighting and pointless posts (C7 Jake and numerous others), I will follow your thread with admiration...

My last post showed the beginning of my attack on the aperture panels. Since then I have found a much more efficient way to go about it, and that requires these tools: heat gun (the stronger the better, a blow drier won't get it), 4 1/2" power grinder with cutting blades, wide blade wood chisel (I found 2 1/2" to be the best), shop vac, pliers, 12" carpenters pry bar and a heavy duty hammer. First I used the wood chisel and hammer to pry loose the entire length of the flange that wraps under the frame by driving it through several individual spots of epoxy. Then I used the cutting tool and shop vac to make a long incision on the middle of the top, from the door latch in the rear to the lower door hinge in the front. The aperture does not sit on the frame, but rather about 1/4" away on a thick bead of epoxy. So I could cut all the way through the fiberglass without cutting into the frame. I then made several cuts perpendicular to that long one and used the heat gun to dissolve the bond. When each section was good and hot I grabbed the end of it with the pliers and pulled it away from the frame. This process was repeated, sometimes with very small sections like near the quarter window, until I had it all removed. Next I'll go about getting rid of the old epoxy. I have an idea, however, to leave several small sections of it as a shim, or bumper, to position the new panel at the proper distance from the frame.

Important note: The cutting tool creates lots of fiberglass dust, so I held the shop vac hose end right next to the wheel as I cut. I still needed to wear a wet mask, shop glasses and drape/cover the open area of the car to keep the mess manageable.

JV

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...142b47bd2b.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...bb89f92ebb.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...852baea863.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6b811e2923.jpg

The five small squares of rubber along the door frame in this picture are permanent, and they sit over the holes that the trim panel clips fit into. See you again after I finish removing the other aperture. Then comes the critical step of epoxying the new apertures to the frame. They sit at the center of this project, and the front fenders and rear quarter panels have to align with, and gap fit, to them properly. I'm half way home... :thumbs:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c8f54e4ef2.jpg

Amazing work! Add me to the long, long list of admirers of your bravery and skill.

I'm wondering if a multipurpose tool would have worked better than the grinder. Less dust maybe? Also might have been able to just cut the epoxy blobs rather than beat on them with a chisel?
This is gonna be good! :thumbs:
:lurk:

Dude has skills. The Rockers are a real challenge both getting off and getting on even more so.

I'm sure there are several ways to approach this part. Heat is the best way, but a massive amount is required to make it anywhere near easy, and a body shop probably has commercial grade units that can put tremendous amounts of heat on the entire panel at one time. The problem with only cutting the epoxy blobs is that its almost impossible to know where they are because they are under the panel. The wood chisel I used has a very wide, very thin business end which was easy to slide under that under-body flange. That area was not heavily epoxied so it was fairly easy to break it loose. After that, however, on the upper areas there was so much epoxy that it was useless to do anything except apply enough heat to allow each piece to be pulled free. It took me almost three hours to get the lion's share of the drivers side done because I was working slowly, trying to find what worked best. I'm confidant I can cut that time in half on the other side.

JV

Its Sunday morning but I managed to get in about 30 minutes of work cleaning out the last bit of aperture panel in the upper forward corner, just under the windshield. This is a very tough area to work in because it is tucked away under the weather stripping, and in order to get to it I had to partially remove the windshield side trim piece. That only requires pulling the large rubber strip out of its channel from the lower corner to almost the upper corner. I didn't want to dislocate too much so that it would be easier to put it back in place. Then I removed the torx screws and rotated the trim up and out of the way only enough to have clear access to the upper edge of the aperture. The same reasoning applies here, only move/remove as little as necessary to get at the area you need to work on. Then I put the heat gun back to work to soften the fiberglass and adhesive enough to pull away piece after piece, strip after strip of fiberglass. It seemed at times like I was removing one strand at a time, :( but it didn't take all that long. The white areas you see in the pictures are thin layers of fiberglass 'skin' only a strand or two thick, which will strip away with the adhesive removal. Next I have to remove the old adhesive, and there are several options: chemicals, heat and freezing. I'll try them all to see how effective each is. The more I look at how to position the new panel when bonding it in place, the more I like my idea of leaving a handful of strategically placed 1" segments of the old adhesive to act as natural shims. That way I can epoxy around them and simply press against them. Meanwhile, I'm off to HD to get supplies. I'll also need to spray some black Rust-Oleum on the scratches I put in the frame to inhibit corrosion.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...26e26222b7.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ef37b6b1d2.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6b7e10239e.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...94990b7ec3.jpg

wow...that is a lot of work! Someday I might be interested in doing something like this but I think these rocker panels are too much for me! You clearly have a handle on this! I bet it will be awesome when you are finished! :cheers:

:lurk:

I replied to the post you have in the 'paint and body' section.

DUB

For the benefit of those following this thread, here's that Q&A:

A heat gun will soften the adhesive so it can come off....BUT.....you have to know what you are doing in some areas where the thickness of the adhesive makes replacing parts EASIER....because GM had already set up the thickness so gaps of panels are PERFECT. SO...removing ALL the adhesive on some panels is a BIG NO-NO!!!!! Or it will make it harder for you when you go and set-up a new panel.

AS for the specific product will depend on the metal of the frame where bonding adhesive is applied.

Many companies offer the adhesives...such as LORD FUSOR, SEM, ASHLAND CHEMICALS "Pliogrip"...and each of them have requirements on the type of finish their product gets applied to.

http://www.lord.com/products-and-sol...pair-adhesives
https://www.semproducts.com/
http://www.ashland.com/strategic-app...llision-repair


Some manufacturers want bare steel and you make sure the bare steel is covered with their product...some want an epoxy primer and lightly scuff it. SO...it depends.

I do not yet have a C7 service manual. But I can look in my C6 Corvette service manuals and see if they specify anything specific for the rocker panels. I do know GM does usually spell out a specific product..but also add "or equivalent".

You REALLY need to watch HOW you prep on these panels and DO exactly what the manufactures states. If they say 'scuff' then scuff it....if they say grind...then grind it. because it has been a long time since I have had to write this...but REMEMBER it is that 1/1,000,000th of an inch of crap on the surface...or improper surface prep that will cause for a product to loose adhesion.

DUB

Have you selected an adhesive yet? If not, would you like to know what my shop used? They researched it extensively to make sure the bond was as good as factory. Let me know if you'd like me to get the info.

No I haven't decided yet, please do get that info for me.

JV

I thought I gave you good choices to choose from.... from your other thread??? Kinda confused why you are still asking. A few phone calls or e-mails...and you will know right away what you need.:shrug:

DUB

You did give me good choices, and that's why I thanked you and re-posted your info here for the benefit of others, but I have discussed this project for a while with 'jag' (who has had it done to his car) and I can't imagine how getting all the info possible could be a problem. I regret that you feel somehow disrespected, I certainly didn't intend my search for information to be taken that way.

JV

May want to reach out to the Florida Speed and Power guys. Their customer had this done to his Z51 and it looked really good.

This afternoon I removed the passenger side aperture, and as I suspected, it went more quickly than the first one by half. I was much more efficient this time, laying out only the exact tools I needed, and quickly removing the trim panels and weather stripping. Starting underneath the body, I pried the lower flange away from the frame by inserting the wide chisel next to each blob of epoxy and pulling, breaking those bonds cleanly. Then I made the same cut I talked about before, longitudinally from the door latch opening in the rear to the lower door hinge in the front. This cut is right down the middle, mid way between the edge of the passenger compartment and the outside edge of the aperture. Then I made four cuts perpendicular to that one, about one every 10 or 12 inches. Using the heat gun on one section at a time I used the pliers to grab and pull each section away. The more heat the better, and a second person to keep the heat on while you pull pieces away makes it go much faster. On the difficult areas at the upper rear and upper front corners I used the wide blade wood chisel and heavy hammer to cut the aperture into smaller sections while still applying heat and pulling pieces away. It only took me about 90 minutes today from start to finish. Now I still have to remove the old epoxy, place shims (which will probably consist of 1" sections of old epoxy left in a half dozen strategic spots) where they will allow the new panel to be placed in exactly the correct position, and decide on an epoxy bonding product. I'm now very confident that this project will be successful.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...829e33fbce.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d2812fb75f.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...9d21308a54.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...2891c42fdd.jpg

My shop wanted to make sure they went with the factory spec adhesive. You'll notice the factory uses two different adhesives. Use 3M Panel Bond 8115 and then window urethane where you see the different adhesive where the panel goes up toward the quarter panel.

Thanks jag, that's really interesting. I had noticed that the 'bead' around the opening is somewhat flexible, with a rubbery feel, but there are several large 'dollops' (four along the bottom and one at each upper end) which are hard as a rock. I just chalked that up to different drying of the product, but now it is obvious it is a different material altogether. The hard dollops are circled in red in these pics, everywhere else is the rubberized bead. I was leaning toward using SEM 39747 Panel Adhesive, but I'll look into the 3M your guys used. Thanks again.

JV

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...21748470ad.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...125430c80f.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c6bd8548f8.jpg

Glad to help...and yes, two different adhesives used. :cheers:

What are you doing with the ruined body panels?

Only the aperture panels were ruined, the others simply unscrewed and unclipped and are in my game room. They are shark gray and are in perfect condition - both front fenders with vent inserts and 'stingray' accents, both rear quarter panels and the upper rear bumper cover with vent grilles. I intend to put them up for sale, here and on eBay.

JV

After seeing the rest of your removal, I'm having a hard time realizing how the factory can mount those panels without some sort of datum point, laser reference point, or locating pins. These aperture panels are the reference point for the lower body panels, and one being off will affect the rest of the panels.

Has anyone seen them mount these panels at the factory? I've been there a few times and I haven't. If the thickness of the adhesive is so important and they are using that as a reference, I'm just not seeing how the panel can be mounted that accurately.

I can see the doors being mounted first because they must join the top and the windshield frame. but to mount this aperture panel and hope everything lines up seems like quite a gamble without knowing for sure they are in the right place. I'm talking the factory now. It seems that you are doing what you can to maintain that reference. I'm not doubting you'll get it done.

There must be a service procedure a body shop can use to replace it in the correct location after an accident using more than the position and thickness of the old adhesive.
:lurk:

WoW! I hope you get your car back together to your satisfaction. Hard for me to comprehend ripping a relatively new car apart and to that extent. Good luck.

ACTUALLY...I need to apologize to you.

When I replied to what you wrote it took me to the beginning of last page of this thread...and I DID NOT see what you posted at the end of the previous page.

I feel like such a DOOFUS!!!! I am very sorry!

SO from my end at least...I have no problem at all and did NOT take it in any way shape or form of disrespect....that is why I seemed confused...it almost seemed like you forgot what was suggested....even though you did reply. So in my head...I said to myself...he got what I wrote...but was still asking. Maybe if I backed up one page...I would have gotten it and so it is MY FAULT! :hide:

I looked in my 2006 corvette manual that they mentioned FUSOR 127EZ as the bonding adhesive by name.

If you need a copy of the page..I can get that to you....if needed. I know it is not the same year...but this part seems to be basically the same from 1984 to current in what it does.

DUB

Thanks DUB, and no worries, I appreciate the explanation. I found a page online from the GM body repair manual for the C7 which shows the application points around the perimeter of the aperture for the adhesive. It looks like the epoxy 'hard points' (those large dollops in the red circles in the picture above) are placed at intervals to provide rigid mounting, and the rubberized bead is a flexible sealant which also provides a lesser degree of bonding. I'll take another close look at the FUSOR product. Thanks again. :thumbs:

JV

I agree wholeheartedly that the factory must have some highly accurate method of positioning the aperture for bonding, I just don't know what it is. :D I have finished removing all of the old adhesive except the small sections I will use as locating 'shims' (seen in the red circles in the next few pictures), and test fitted the passenger side aperture. As I hoped, it fits snugly into position resting on and up against those shims. I'm considering installing it temporarily with only a few very small spots of the flexible urethane to hold it in place while I check the fitment of the fenders and quarters. I'm proceeding very cautiously here, and therefore slowly, for obvious reasons, and I'm in no hurry.

JV

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c764a3f75d.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...b2bb4da901.jpg

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https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6a2bcdaf30.jpg

I was curious if you took measurements before the demolition to aid in the installation.
Not that this will be any help, but this piece of video -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wttG...ature=youtu.be
which is from this longer video
shows the inner wheelhouses and the apertures being installed robotically, which is how they achieve consistent, accurate installation.

:lurk:

I actually did take measurements at various spots around the apertures before beginning their removal. I made several in each section of the panel, showing the positioning in all three axes - vertical, fore & aft and side to side. I used a wooden paint stir stick for each measurement, marking on each the distance from the frame to the panel, and then noting the exact spot the measurement was taken. That way I can make rapid checks by simply holding each stick up to its spot and getting an accurate visual indicator.

Thanks for the video, it was amazing to watch!

JV

I just want the z06 rear any one no how much would something like that would be installed

Almost as much as front and rear, because you still have to do the aperture panels, the quarter panels and the rear bumper cover, and much of the labor cost is in the aperture remove and replace operation. Probably in the neighborhood of $8k if you had it done professionally.

JV

Wow that's crazy ur lucky you no what your doing .. I'm alittle jealous lol but soon I'll end up doin it

You are correct in using the facotry adhesive as a 'shim'.

And for what it is worth. I have worked on MANY Corvettes where the bolt-on fenders and quarter panels had thin black flat washers adhesive backed (sticky) that were placed between the inner panels and fender/quarter to shim the panel UP where needed.

DUB

I got quotes of around 6K for labor but that was a total repaint too.


The question is the aperture panels are just for cosmetic covering, they do need to line up properly but they are not structural in any way at all right?


Seems someone could do a jig/template for spacing. It is not done this way in the factory for a huge variety of reasons but one off who cares?


The template would have 4-5 pieces, plastic or something similar that fit over the body/frame portion, glue and stick.


Car weighs a few more ounces and all is done quite a bit easier.

I stripped the rubberized urethane bead from the driver's side this evening, and it went much more smoothly this time. A razor is the key, in the form of a box cutter with a fresh blade. I made incisions at each end of a section I wanted to remove, then grabbed the bead at one end with pliers and pulled, slicing along the base where it meets the frame as it came away. I also learned that you don't want to completely remove the bead all the way down to the metal, but rather leave a thin layer for the new bead to adhere to. I've ordered all the material for setting the bond, and I'll just be marking time until it arrives. While I wait I'll practice fitting the new aperture in place again so I have it down pat for the real thing. Here's what I'll be using:

3M Solvent/Cleaner 08984 for surface prep and cleaning.
3M Urethane Windshield Adhesive 08693 for the rubberized bead.
3M Panel Bonding Adhesive 08115 for the 'hard' mating points.

I also bought a heavy duty pneumatic applicator (I already have a compressor) for the urethane because it has a short work time of 15 mins and there is a lot of area to cover with relatively thick amounts. I'll be back when I'm ready to bond.

JV

This is such a big job makes u not even wanna do it only for a good price :toetap:

No problem, just don't subscribe to the thread.

JV

What does that gotta do with it lol just sayin it's such a hard job but in the end u have a wide body why u offended lol

I think your jig/template would be useful for body shops that had to replace the aperture due to an accident. I'm sure there is a procedure they use to do it but I'm also sure they wouldn't share their techniques. There's got to be a way unless they just total the car due to the high labor costs.
:lurk:

There are people who tackle huge projects like this for the pure joy and satisfaction of mastering something difficult. I admire such people, and it's not about what's cost-effective or practical.

You should do this for other people. You could make some serious cash helping others in your area. The fact that you have done it makes it much more appealing rather than having a bodyshop use your car as a guinea pig.

I literally thought to myself.. "That doesn't look bad, I could do that." Then i saw the rocker panels disassembly.... "Nope, not happening."

This is a very impressive project to take on. Good Job.

:D :D :D

I'll be glad to help out anyone in my area who plans to undertake this project, but only as a friend/advisor, and not for pay. Thanks for the compliment.

JV

:iagree: To the OP here I will put you up for the time it take will have every thing in hand . Will let you help me do it and see if you can beat your old time that it take you on yours.:lol::lol:

Just kidding man sound like a great job you are doing on the car. Really nice of you to post this up on your job on the car. To me this is what it is all about....:thumbs::thumbs: Robert

One other issue with the aperture installation I have been thinking about is how to clamp it in place while the adhesives cure. Looking at the panel it becomes obvious that it's shape does not lend itself to be easily clamped to the frame. There are, however, several areas at the top front, top rear, along the door sill area, and underneath which are not visible when the molding strips are back in place. I think I can drill a few small holes in those areas and screw the panel in place when it is temporarily in place for dry fitting. That would allow me to test fit the fenders, doors and quarter panels before I apply the adhesives, and then serve to hold it in place for curing afterwards.

JV

I guess I am numb to seeing cars that look like what Jet Vet showed in some of the photos.

None of that even remotely scares me.....and it should NOT scare anyone....and make them feel that it is an undertaking that ONLY professionals can do.

Heck...if that was the case...then why do I try to advise many members who ask for help because they want to do it....but do not know what they need to know. And like I tell many of them when they call me at my shop. "ANYONE can do this IF they want to do it." Simple as that. Pay attention to the FINE DETAILS and take the time to THINK before you jump into something that you know nothing about. ASSUMING that just because many people do 'stuff'.. that is HAS TO BE easy....guess again!

What I HATE the most is someone jumping into a project thinking that just because this guy down the street can do it...They figure that they can do it....only to figure out that they should have ASKED for advice before jumping in blind.

It has NOTHING to do with the amount of money, equipment and TIME spent learning. It has everything to do IF the person wants to prove to themselves that they CAN DO IT!

Now...if a person is all 'caught up' in how much it costs to get started on a project like this...and how much it would cost to pay someone to do it....then that is up to them.

And for those who will NEVER attempt or even consider this....I UNDERSTAND...and I am NOT pushing you to do so. Because I get customers who come in and see their Corvette in a condition that may seem that there is NO WAY that it will EVER be the same....and I tell them that it will be BETTER than they can imagine. And when they pick it up their jaws drop...and they say "This can not be the MY Corvette". And I say: "YES it is."

SO...'Jet Vet'....Keep on doing what you are doing. You WILL get there...I am SURE OF IT!!!! The BEST part is you KNOW how it was done. And you doing this just might give that one person who is 'on the fence' that inspirational moment and nudge they need to TRY to do it themselves also.

DUB

LOL! Same here, I have had the front and rear apart, and wouldn't worry about fender/quarter panel removal (easy peasy), but the apertures just look like more work than I would want to tackle.

I actually thought about this when I put on my side skirts, since I had to screw into the rockers... At the time I thought to myself "How hard can it be to replace these if I had to? This whole car is modular!" Well... now I know! If I ever had to remove the side skirts, I would repair the panels, not replace them LOL!

For what it is worth....and I am NOT judging what you do.

Drilling holes and using screws is up to you.

I (personally) make every attempt I can NOT to drill into the frame/structure if at all possible.

If you do...keep in mind rust and corrosion when you go and install the panel....so applying some sealant that will make sure there is not a possibility for a long time that these areas begin to rust.

I use duct tape, straps, 'bungy' cords..making wood wedges and height blocks that I can shim to hold a panel where I want it...even custom made metal 'C' thumb screw clamps of different depths and grip ranges.that can grip and edge of a panel or where ever I need it.....basically anything I can think of that will hold the panel for testing. I will also use a hot glue gun for testing if needed....depending on the part being installed.

Because when I bond on the front aprons..I KNOW I do not use screws to hold it in place and my clamps and unique other holding devices do the job. And yes..I do have a slight advantage due to doing this for so long I have numerous long reach Vise-Grips and wide jaw Vise-Grips and modified ones that are used.

SO...do what you need to do...just keep in mind about any possible rust beginning. Like I wrote..I am NOT judging how you do it.

DUB

Excellent thoughts, thanks. I'll try all those things when dry fitting to see if I can get the right combination, and if I do drill anywhere I'll fill the hole with urethane before I set the screw in place.

JV

Final Test Fitting
 

I've done all the prep work, removing most of the urethane but leaving a thin base strip for the new bead to adhere to, and also leaving several small sections of both the old urethane and the old epoxy in place as 'shims' for the new aperture panel to sit on and up against. With all that completed I was ready for a final test fitting, and it went better than I could possibly have hoped for. The new panel slides easily and snugly into place, sitting perfectly on the 'shims' I described above. It also remains in place without any extra support due to the fact that it is resting on horizontal 'shims' as well as up against vertical ones. I discovered that after the initial bonding process, when the panel has been set in place with both adhesives, there are several areas where urethane can be applied after the fact by pumping it under open edges around the perimeter, from behind, and underneath.

It test fit so well that I decided to temporarily put the front fender and rear quarter panel in place to check the fit of those as well. In the pictures below those panels are only held in place by two screws each, one at the front and one at the rear of each panel, and they appear to dovetail extremely well with the aperture. Again, I'm now very confident in my expected results, and FedEx just delivered the last of my supplies so I'll start work on the bonding tomorrow...

JV

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...4dd30a19d5.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...9f2c119b61.jpg

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https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c47fb389ac.jpg

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Looking really good!