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Aluminum radiators and related topics
We have had an amazing amount of threads discussing the use of aluminum radiators, mostly in C3 Tech. Most discuss various products, costs, peripheral items like electric fans, shrouds, installs and the like. We have had a number of spirited debates and disagreements, and an awful lot of repeated commentary.
It was suggested we start a Sticky on this topic, like we have on the Oil Wars. It made sense to me to give it a shot. :cheers: A few ground rules: feel free to comment about your preferences and opinions as you see fit, but please respect your fellow members and mind the conflict rules. A discussion of cost is fine; calling people names about their opinion is not. Let's try not to repeat things too much if you have already posted it in this thread. And when suggesting products, please be mindful of the Non Supporting Vendor rules... It's OK to provide a link on a product, but further promotion of the product vendor who is not a Supporting Vendor (contacts, phone numbers, repeated mentions) is not. PM me if you need guidance. Everyone who finds this topic interesting, please contribute. There's lots of great info out there by informed members. I'm going to start this off with a quote by The13bats from the last aluminum radiator thread: Seems cooling and radiators are a popular and very much posted subject on the Corvetteforum, and with that many questions are repeated and I am hoping in a general way to shine a little light on the subject of radiator selection, I do not claim to be the guru on the subject. Many times people with a cooling problem are thinking of replacing the radiator when it might not be necessary. Things to check first when considering a new radiator include, is what you consider "overheating" really too hot? Personally for me in Florida I like it to always be well under 210 an no creeping at any time. Is the gauge reading correctly? the ignition timing, the factory front spoiler/air damn, the seals around the radiator to be sure the air is going where it should. The water pump could be going out. The thermostat could be malfunction or completely stuck, check the radiator hoses if they feel spongy or the lower hose doesn't have the spring it could be collapsing. So when you determine you do need or desire a new radiator you have to decide what is correct for you. In many cases on a stock or mild engine all you need is brass replacement and for many years that was cheaper than Aluminum but that has changed a little, a base model Aluminum radiator is now the same or cheaper than a brass radiator making the Aluminum aftermarket radiator look pretty good to all except the purist who needs exactly what came in the car. There is a lot of debate which cools better copper or aluminum and that debate will likely never be 100% agreed on by all so I will just touch down on a few basics, Science proves copper actually transfers heat better, however, many copper radiators are still made in a way that is soldering different metals together and where joints come together with solder some cooling ability is lost, these joints were also a source of bloom in some of the copper radiators depending on how they were made. Aluminum radiators are welded or brazed at the joints and are all aluminum and do not loose cooling at the joints. Aluminum is lighter than copper which is a perk for many people. Aluminum radiators tend to use wider tubes for more surface area than copper so a two row aluminum in general cools the same as a 4 row copper. Both Copper and aluminum radiators need to have proper "coolant" for corrosion and antifreeze protection where needed and recommended by radiator manufactures most people and techs agree a good 50/50 pre mix does the job. And now the dreaded question, "Which aluminum radiator should I buy" On this forum it would seem we have two favorites always surface so in this corner the Dewitts and in the other corner the import or "Champion". Lets start with the Dewitts, A long running contender with a well known and trusted name with Corvette owners, Dewitts is considered a top end brand like Griffin or BeCool. They are made in a special brazing oven built for this purpose and are nothing short of a work of art for your car. Dewitts pride themselves on fit, to my understanding more so than Griffin or BeCool, many times even stock parts can be tricky to fit but the Dewitts radiator has a lot of time spent in design behind it to make sure it is as plug and play as you can get with a radiator, and if you do have an issue Tom Dewitt is a phone call or forum post away. As far as cooling goes the Dewitts will cool what you have and look super doing it no questions there If the Dewitts has any cons some people feel the price is high, but this is a part proudly and very well made in America and is competitive priced with the other top names out there. Now the import unit or Champion. This aluminum radiator that has been gaining attention and being used by many 68-82 corvette owners for the main reasons, the low entry price and it does the job. I noticed what I would call quality control issues with some, one fellow would say his welds looked like bird dropping or bubble gum and the next would say they looked beautiful like a roll of coins laid out. I have heard several people report back that they had to bend this or tweak that to fit the Champion in their car. All the users do report they are happy with it and it does what a radiator is suppose to do and they saved a little money for other things on their build. What we have with the champion is short term feedback, how will these units do over time, will they hold up like their top name competitors or will longevity be reflected in their lower pricing, we will have to wait ands see with that question. I also learned that while the "Champion" is the "budget" name on this forum Ebay has an influx of even lower priced aluminum imported radiators, this got me to thinking at some point how does even import companies sell and make a profit at such low prices, and I am betting the metal gets thinner and thinner as price goes down, that would just make sense. Feedback reflects poor fit and damage in shipping. I am not picking sides or debating which is better, both are, neither are, each persons build is going to be different so they will have to pick the one that is "better" for them. |
Thanks for starting this 'sticky' thread.
I will start this off by NOT being affiliated with ANY company who makes or sells this stuff. SO there is NO financial gain for me on this. I will be giving comments for years of experience and installing many different products. I will consider this a 'think tank' where hopefully people can read it and make their own decision. DUB |
My main question is who else besides DeWitt makes a LS swap C3 radiator?
I dont like the fact that their fans leave so much uncovered, I would feel better with more of a full shroud. Of course I may be wrong, but hard to compare with no alternativies. I have used a ebay radiator in my CJ7 and it works great and I paid $130. If I was not needing the LS style, I know exactly what I would be buying. Money matters when its just a hobby and right now there is just a huge difference out there in price. |
Be-Cool seems to have an option for this.
DUB |
The topic says aluminum radiators and "related" topics, so...
I just removed the heater core from my "barn find" '74, and naturally there was green stuff all over it. Needless to say, since I've taken it down to the frame and I'm just now working on the interior, I have no intention to put a leaky heater core in a vehicle that's getting this much attention. The local O'Reily auto parts store can get an aluminum heater core, but I'd like to get some opinions before I put that behind all of the stuff that goes into a dashboard. What's my safest/most reliable option? Advice? |
Originally Posted by The_pakettle
(Post 1592930429)
The topic says aluminum radiators and "related" topics, so...
I just removed the heater core from my "barn find" '74, and naturally there was green stuff all over it. Needless to say, since I've taken it down to the frame and I'm just now working on the interior, I have no intention to put a leaky heater core in a vehicle that's getting this much attention. The local O'Reily auto parts store can get an aluminum heater core, but I'd like to get some opinions before I put that behind all of the stuff that goes into a dashboard. What's my safest/most reliable option? Advice? And not that this matters..I always take my new heater cores over to my radiator shop guy and have him check them and add more solder. DUB |
Originally Posted by The_pakettle
(Post 1592930429)
The topic says aluminum radiators and "related" topics, so...
I just removed the heater core from my "barn find" '74, and naturally there was green stuff all over it. Needless to say, since I've taken it down to the frame and I'm just now working on the interior, I have no intention to put a leaky heater core in a vehicle that's getting this much attention. The local O'Reily auto parts store can get an aluminum heater core, but I'd like to get some opinions before I put that behind all of the stuff that goes into a dashboard. What's my safest/most reliable option? Advice? Exact replacement here: http://keenparts.com/pages/search.ph...x=0&submit.y=0 I've dealt with these guys many times, all good to work with. |
Way to go Dewitts, Keep up the good work. Good Luck on the Future. Gene
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To give you an idea how badly my poor vehicle had been treated in it's previous life, someone had installed an oversized radiator. When I say oversized, I mean, it was too wide so he customized it with a hammer to make it fit then squeezed it into place, destroying some of the fiberglass in the process.
I had no idea how much trouble I was getting into when I bought this thing. Every time I turn around, another mess, but now that I've gone this far, I may as well finish it. I examined the aluminum heater core from O'Reilly. It was about 2/3 of the thickness of my original. Sure, it was pretty, all nice and shiny aluminum, but I don't know if the straps would even hold it in place, so I passed. Dub indicates that local radiator shops can improve a radiator core. This one has some green antifreeze residue on it, obviously it has been leaking and the tubes have evidently been customized, also no doubt with a hammer, but I'll talk to the local shop tomorrow and listen to their advice. Although right now I'm leaning toward the advice of Cooper9811, especially if keenparts has a good quality replacement. |
Originally Posted by The_pakettle
(Post 1592941512)
T
Dub indicates that local radiator shops can improve a radiator core. This one has some green antifreeze residue on it, obviously it has been leaking and the tubes have evidently been customized, also no doubt with a hammer, but I'll talk to the local shop tomorrow and listen to their advice. Although right now I'm leaning toward the advice of Cooper9811, especially if keenparts has a good quality replacement. To be CLEAR..I take my new copper/brass HEATER CORES and have them PRESSURE TESTED and CHECKED and ADDITIONAL SOLDER put on them ( if needed) so I know it is a good heater core due to I do not TRUST heater cores from anybody. I do agree that the new aluminum one is one I would not use and going with KEEN parts is a good choice also. You may also be surprised that your local radiator repair shop should be able to get a cooper/brass heater core that will work...just like I do. I do not order them in and pay shipping when I know I can get them locally. Hopefully the repair shop can stay competitive in pricing...if not order one in. DUB |
Originally Posted by DUB
(Post 1592942738)
I did not write that. I did not mention anything about 'improve a radiator core'
To be CLEAR..I take my new copper/brass HEATER CORES and have them PRESSURE TESTED and CHECKED and ADDITIONAL SOLDER put on them ( if needed) so I know it is a good heater core due to I do not TRUST heater cores from anybody. I'm new at this so any advice is always appreciated, even if I read into it more than I should. |
This is timely. And with this being the "tech" section, hopefully I can offer some tech.
I'm not engaging in a "made in wherever", I'm doing this completely neutral. I have no idea how this is going to turn out. Could be bad for Champion, could be good... Read on, chat on. :canadaflag: My 1975 L48 with 58,000 miles on it is leaking a few drops from everywhere, so I'm replacing it. I've done some reading, and made my decision. I bought a Champion 3 core, and I'll be using that. No fans, just the rad. Being in Canada, it cost about another 75 dollars to get it here, but the rad I would have LIKED to buy would have still cost more than double that. Maybe triple. And I own a race car, so I know about buying the right product once, as opposed to buying several cheaper versions to eventually get to the same spot. So if you can bare with me, I'll maybe try and document how it goes from here. It won't go quickly, as I may wait until the winter and do the cam etc at the same time, but I'll happily document it in this thread. Price in CANADIAN was $263.56 Shipping $24.67 Import charges $51.59 Supplied by: Reliable Radiator, eBay Order date: August 16 Received: August 25 (that's FAST when you're Canadian lol) Does it fit in a C3? Well, sure it does. Just perfectly.:yesnod: http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/y...szo59p209.jpeg Packaging is really good IMHO, solid box, in perfect shape, heavy cardboard, lots of space in the box and foam spacers. All appears to be in order. I'll pull it out and have a look tomorrow, this damn cold/flu is killing me. http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/y...s59lrqgta.jpeg http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/y...svdbtbjfv.jpeg http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/y...sy3as2ox7.jpeg If the mods don't want this thread mucked up with this stuff, feel free to toss it elsewhere. |
Originally Posted by Team Lazy
(Post 1592945276)
If the mods don't want this thread mucked up with this stuff, feel free to toss it elsewhere.
Just curious though, I thought it was so cold in Canada that fiberglass would shatter if you closed the door too hard. :lol: Kidding aside, I'd like to know how the aluminum radiator works out. |
Originally Posted by The_pakettle
(Post 1592944495)
My apologies, I assumed that adding solder indicated that they were improving the radiator. Either way, I appreciate the recommendations that I've seen here, from everyone.
I'm new at this so any advice is always appreciated, even if I read into it more than I should. Team Lazy. You better come back and let us know how it went. And do not hold back...tell it like it is. AS many photos of all of the 'good and bad' when you do it. And I am not meaning to step on your skill and ability....but just in case you may not know this or do this. When I am installing radiators...and it dies not matter if it is cooper/brass or aluminum. I take a large piece of cardboard and cut it wide enough to cover the core and fit right beside each tank. Then this cardboard is bent so it COMPLETELY covers the front and rear face of the core. I then tie string to hold the cardboard in two or three places. I get the radiator tog get down where it needs to be and when I an ready to secure it..I cut the stings and pull the cardboard out. DUB |
I can't visualize what you're describing.
Wouldn't that make it too wide to fit into the space? I think I'm missing something, no doubt I just don't understand. |
Update: I took the heater core to a local radiator shop. They've been around for years and have an excellent reputation, I've even taken work to them before and have always been pleased.
As I sat at the desk while the kid with the ear gauges filled out the paperwork, he reached for a business card for me, and knocked the heater core off the desk. Just before that event he had just said, "It doesn't look bad, we've had a lot worse. I'm sure we can take care of this for you." Then he mashed the corner of the heater core and I replied, "I sure hope so." I may be contacting Keen sooner than I planned. |
Hood Relief
I would not be doing my job if I did post in this thread so here is a little story. About twenty years ago I was selling brand G radiators. Every once in a while someone with a C3 would tell me the hood hinge would hit the radiator and that the stock radiator had a dent in the tank for clearance.
Depending on how the front end was glued together and how many hood hinge shims were used this could be an issue or not. As a result of this information we made sure our tanks had this relief or flat spot like the factory brass tanks did. The others do not. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0e6848daaa.png We also thought it would a nice touch to duplicate the GM type hat channels that run across the top and bottom to give them an OE look. Most aftermarket radiators do not have this feature. One competitor copied this idea but failed to duplicate the look. A vs B |
Giving it a try
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...48c0186f8.jpegHere they are side by side. Champion dropped right in . I will have to modify the brackets. I just bent them a little to pressure it up and test so far so good. It does have the relief for the hood. I ran the car for about 30 minutes in the shed was about 90 degrees today. Road test in a few days. It really wouldn't take that much for the manufacturer to to make it a drop in and go with the brackets
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I don't want to bend things to make a radiator, or anything else, to make them fit, I would think this would put undue pressure on the unit. In eight years I have had three China units, Two Aluminum & one brass. I hope no one else is having this kind of problem.
Good Luck Gene |
Wow that's a lot of radiators. I'll throw in the towel after a couple.
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Originally Posted by croaker
(Post 1593019320)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...48c0186f8.jpegHere they are side by side. Champion dropped right in . I will have to modify the brackets. I just bent them a little to pressure it up and test so far so good. It does have the relief for the hood. I ran the car for about 30 minutes in the shed was about 90 degrees today. Road test in a few days. It really wouldn't take that much for the manufacturer to to make it a drop in and go with the brackets
I've been running my champion for 2 years and it keeps a fairly strong motor cool in all temps - I have yet to get over 190 on a hot summer day (and with AC). I drive it a lot in the summer. If I were more concerned with an original looks along with good cooling, I may have gone with a more costly radiator. I was only after functional, cost-effective cooling - I never pop my hood to show off, because I drive this thing and it gets dirty under the hood. I have not regretted it at all. |
OK, I know this thread is entitled "Aluminium Radiators", but in the "related" context, I used these people to replace the rad on our 78. http://www.completeradiators.com/
I'd had the original rad repaired, then later replaced it with a "modern", probably ally, rad, that didn't fit and eventually (after a couple of years!) sprang a leak. I went to Complete Radiators who supplied (at a very reasonable price, including shipping here to France) a radiator that is a perfect replica of the original, fitted straight in with no mods, bending, sweat or tears and now keeps the engine so cool that I needed to change the thermostat. |
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...aa2fbbb88.jpeg
Champion Radiator in. 3 core . This temp was after 45 mile run 90 degree Louisiana heat and,5 minutes idling in driveway. No seals in . |
I like that radiator cap; I've never seen one with a built in temperature sensor before.
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I like it keeps my dash gauge honest.
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Radiator cap
Originally Posted by croaker
(Post 1593111234)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...aa2fbbb88.jpeg
Champion Radiator in. 3 core . This temp was after 45 mile run 90 degree Louisiana heat and,5 minutes idling in driveway. No seals in . |
Originally Posted by rogernison
(Post 1593331468)
Who is the manufacturer of the radiator cap with temperature gauge?
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overflow tank for modern aluminum radiator
On the mater of "related topics", I have an aftermarket aluminum radiator in a 72 C3 roadster with a 350SB. The original GM "expansion tank" is long gone.
Most aluminum radiators have a little overflow port just under the radiator cap...just like pics in a prior post on this thread. I have a rubber hose on the radiator overflow bib but no tank to catch / feedback coolant back into the radiator....for now the rubber hose would just expel any coolant down onto the road. I'm not over heating so it's really not a big issue but I have lost coolant to some degree as I found the coolant level lower than what I filled it to previously. I've looked at the "OE expansion tank" diagram briefly last week. The tank is like $170, then there's a cap, bracket, two straps, and T to tie into heater hoses. I more or less stopped looking at the diagram because that's not what I'm after. It seems the OE expansion tank is designed to work under pressure, but I think that's not at all a necessary thing with a modern aluminum radiator. Right ?? I'm looking for a "semi nice looking" overflow tank that I can tie to the aluminum radiator with a simple rubber hose.....like 99% of every modern car on the road. A 2 liter bottle, duct tape job, and long rubber hose would work, but I want a tank that doesn't scream "yeah I rigged just that up" when looking under the hood. Anyone using or know of a SIMPLE overflow tank (plastic preferred to see coolant level inside) which looks nice and could mount in the approximate/same postion as the seemingly over complex pressurized "expansion tank" designed for use with copper OE radiators ?? What are your thoughts on this ? |
Originally Posted by saunderscx
(Post 1593369164)
I have an aftermarket aluminum radiator in a 72 C3 roadster with a 350SB. The original GM "expansion tank" is long gone.
I've looked at the "OE expansion tank" diagram briefly last week. The tank is like $170, then there's a cap, bracket, two straps, and T to tie into heater hoses. I more or less stopped looking at the diagram because that's not what I'm after. It seems the OE expansion tank is designed to work under pressure, but I think that's not at all a necessary thing with a modern aluminum radiator. Right ?? What are your thoughts on this ? No. Only base C3 small block (no AC, no Auto, and no special engine) and BB cars have the factory aluminum surge tank. If your sb car has anyone of these options, then you would not have the pressurized surge tank. The filler neck with cap was on the radiator and there is no need for one. If you really want to use a catch can, you could just order a plastic one from a 73 or later. I don't see why you would need it but it would work. Normally you would fill the radiator about 3" low and this room allows for fluid expansion when it heats up. If you overfill the radiator it will push this extra fluid out when it expands. Often people will confuse this with boiling out or puking. Then they re-fill the system when it cools down because they feel they need to and this madness continues over and over. |
Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt
(Post 1593385328)
I see a lot of mistakes regarding this "missing tank". That is because many people see a car the same year as theirs and it has the tank, therefore your tank must be missing, right?
No. Only base C3 small block (no AC, no Auto, and no special engine) and BB cars have the factory aluminum surge tank. If your sb car has anyone of these options, then you would not have the pressurized surge tank. The filler neck with cap was on the radiator and there is no need for one. If you really want to use a catch can, you could just order a plastic one from a 73 or later. I don't see why you would need it but it would work. Normally you would fill the radiator about 3" low and this room allows for fluid expansion when it heats up. If you overfill the radiator it will push this extra fluid out when it expands. Often people will confuse this with boiling out or puking. Then they re-fill the system when it cools down because they feel they need to and this madness continues over and over. |
DIY aluminum shroud
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the madness continues
Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt
(Post 1593385328)
I see a lot of mistakes regarding this "missing tank". That is because many people see a car the same year as theirs and it has the tank, therefore your tank must be missing, right?
No. Only base C3 small block (no AC, no Auto, and no special engine) and BB cars have the factory aluminum surge tank. If your sb car has anyone of these options, then you would not have the pressurized surge tank. The filler neck with cap was on the radiator and there is no need for one. If you really want to use a catch can, you could just order a plastic one from a 73 or later. I don't see why you would need it but it would work. Normally you would fill the radiator about 3" low and this room allows for fluid expansion when it heats up. If you overfill the radiator it will push this extra fluid out when it expands. Often people will confuse this with boiling out or puking. Then they re-fill the system when it cools down because they feel they need to and this madness continues over and over. |
Looks to have been around the block a few times.
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I recently purchased a Cold-Case radiator aluminum...Very pleased.
40% more cooling than 'stock'. Solid alum, with perfect dimes over dimes TIG welding. Polished tanks. OEM configuration. Nice piece for $325. |
Anybody run the Spectra Premium radiators? They are aluminum with plastic tanks.
Pretty popular with the 2nd gen Camaro guys who have had success with them. https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sgt-cu717/applications http://nastyz28.com/threads/budget-a...unting.131059/ |
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I've had a Summit Radiator (28" x 19") in my 68 since 2004. When I bought it I wanted to squeeze the biggest radiator I could in there so I knew I had to make modifications. I bought some brackets and modified it all to fit in. I did not like the lower hose outlet so I shortened.
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I may be looking into a radiator soon. My dad has an 82 C.E. that I am TRYING to motivate him to get back on the road. Poor car hasn't touched a highway in about 30 years. He told me Thursday that he had misplaced his radiator and fan shroud. I was thinking that the OEM radiator (or probably a replacement considering the car was driven straight into a bayou), probably has plastic tanks on it. If I remember correctly though, he DID have the OEM style brass radiator. If he has to replace the radiator though, I am going to (probably fruitlessly) push him to buy an aluminum radiator. He's cheap, and doesn't normally do too many upgrades. :crazy2:
After reading this thread, I'm thinking about suggesting the Dewitt's option. I have never used or even heard of these until reading this thread. I do have one experience with an all-aluminum rad. After the terrible, crappy plastic tanks failed me in my 2001 Camaro Z28, I decided that I did not want that to happen again. For years, I had mild overheating issues with the car. I was absolutely forced to replace the rad. I parked the car a few weeks, after experiencing frequent, more serious overheating, including putting the car into limp mode. I went with Be Cool. Direct replacement, and 3 times as thick as the stock POS. Never overheated again. I don't know if I can get my dad to swing a Be Cool, but MAYBE the Dewitt. Saving about $100 will be more encouraging.!
Originally Posted by Domobomb
(Post 1594734001)
Anybody run the Spectra Premium radiators? They are aluminum with plastic tanks.
Pretty popular with the 2nd gen Camaro guys who have had success with them. https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sgt-cu717/applications http://nastyz28.com/threads/budget-a...unting.131059/ If you don't plan to own this car for very long, go as cheap as you want. I wouldn't, but I'm not you and it's not my car. |
A different perspective on plastic tank radiators,
Most if not all cars that came factory with them were to me throw away cars, when they get old they are just used cars not classics, and off to the scrap yard. So no shock they have a throw away radiator, Our 2004 xterra at about 180k miles had a radiator leak, not at a plastic tank, it was the orginal radiator to this throw away suv, Over a decade and 180k im okay with that, less that 100.00 bought a replacement same thing that will outlast the vehical, In another thread a fellow asked about an aftermarket high end radiators warranty, it had a leak and was like 10 years old, and the fellow was told did he really want to fool with fixing a 10 year old radiator why not buy another one, Point being, i got 13 years out of a cheap factory plastic tank unit, and the aftermarket aluminum unit was suggested at being worn out and was leaking at 10, Kind of damned if you do damned if you dont. However, I would never go plastic tank in my corvette, i like the empty bragging rights of my high dollar custom aftermarket aluminum radiator. But on other non corvette forum lots of cats have no issues getting an uber cheap plastic tank unit, and report good luck with them, |
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With regard to radiators I have to say I am totally neutral as we imported our car with a De-Witt's already installed. I had no idea that there was such a large variety of choice and quite frankly have not needed to look into it as it does the job. Having said that I can only share my personal view and experiences to date of the De-Witt's High Performance radiator that I have and hope it helps someone/me make decisions in the future. Living in a climate ranging from 104F to 41F, I personally have not been a supporter of thermostats so that was removed day one giving a consistent unrestricted flow. Fitment of the De-Witt's is very clean with it's twin thermatic fans tucked in there like they belong with plenty of ventilation. Fans have been set to come on around the 180F-190F which happens reasonably quickly on a warm day around town. The extreme situation we experienced was a two hour stop start on one of our major highways which had the fans running the whole time but never getting over the 180F-190F setting. Glycol coolant at 50/50 mix keeps her humming along and I have not lost a drop since the last service I did on my cooling system which has been a while now. Looking into the future I am researching the possibility of using these new synthetic cooling products that are on the market so that we may travel with more cabin comfort as we don't have Air Conditioning.
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Originally Posted by OZvette72
(Post 1594872861)
I personally have not been a supporter of thermostats so that was removed day one giving a consistent unrestricted flow.
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Originally Posted by Darth Z
(Post 1594880086)
... I have done it on a truck that my dad owned several years ago, and a car that I owned. Neither ever had an issue by doing this. That being said, I have heard and seen alot of people saying that not running a thermostat, is very bad ...
I appreciate the feed back and concern! ... I guess I omitted that I have always lived in the same warm climate as stated and I believe the purpose of the Thermostat is to get the engine to an operating temperature in cold climate before it opens to the entire cooling system. As I mentioned she gets up to running temp pretty quick by herself and I am more worried that I cook her, which is why I am starting to look into the synthetic coolants. ... I have been wrong before. (my wife can vouch to that:lol:) |
Champion Radiator on Graveyard cars 72 Charger. Great plug for Champoin
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Cheaper? Yes Better? No
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Originally Posted by OZvette72
(Post 1594872861)
With regard to radiators I have to say I am totally neutral as we imported our car with a De-Witt's already installed. I had no idea that there was such a large variety of choice and quite frankly have not needed to look into it as it does the job. Having said that I can only share my personal view and experiences to date of the De-Witt's High Performance radiator that I have and hope it helps someone/me make decisions in the future. Living in a climate ranging from 104F to 41F, I personally have not been a supporter of thermostats so that was removed day one giving a consistent unrestricted flow. Fitment of the De-Witt's is very clean with it's twin thermatic fans tucked in there like they belong with plenty of ventilation. Fans have been set to come on around the 180F-190F which happens reasonably quickly on a warm day around town. The extreme situation we experienced was a two hour stop start on one of our major highways which had the fans running the whole time but never getting over the 180F-190F setting. Glycol coolant at 50/50 mix keeps her humming along and I have not lost a drop since the last service I did on my cooling system which has been a while now. Looking into the future I am researching the possibility of using these new synthetic cooling products that are on the market so that we may travel with more cabin comfort as we don't have Air Conditioning.
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I thought I had saw somewhere the details of what makes a radiator cool better than other, anyone have a link like that? Reason i ask is I have a 11:1 406 with uncoated headers and some unnamed alum. 2 core that doesnt allow for the car to get cool enough for the fans to turn off at 185 while on the interstate on a 92* day. I am going to try and see if this radiator can cool with fixing some things like lack of cold air and try some coatings on these headers while i wait for XSPower to be able to make me new headers.
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Originally Posted by Metalhead140
(Post 1594949327)
In Alice Springs you'd be glad to have a good radiator! I had an alloy radiator made up by Adrad for my car, as with the cost of shipping it was comparable to good US options, and it works great.
Will start there anyway as I don't plan to remove the De-Witt's ... everything looks pretty now. PS ... see the smiley face after Alice Springs, it really means Maroons.:party: Cheers Mate!! |
Nice tips!
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Oh you bought a champion radiator? So did I and im very happy, my car runs nice and cool. Now prepare for the negative feed back. Lol. Paging Tom Dewitt!
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Has anyone tried one of these from Amazon?
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I'm just trying to get my 76 up and running and can't spend big money on a high end radiator right now. My plan it to get the car running and drive it this summer and maybe next and once my truck is paid off next year I will have the funds to do upgrades and probably a frame off. |
That looks like a champion radiator, I'd have no problem using it. So sick of this dewitts rah rah group calling people stupid I would never buy one.many other companies out there build radiators.be cool etc.all get the job done, mine is now 6 yrs old.
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I think everyone draws there own line in the Sand when it comes to buying Chinese or Asian stuff. I have a champion radiator in my 80, but I would never buy a Japanese made vehicle, especially a Mitsubishi, they built the Zero that took out pearl harbor, Grandfather, Father, uncle's, all fought them we will fight them again. So... every one draws there own line, oh and not a Volkswagen either, same back story.
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This thread was sapossed to provide a place to discuss cooling issues with moderator supervision to control redundancy and controversy. What it has turned into is a DeWitts Alternative report page. I am open to sharing my twenty years of Corvette cooling experience with anyone that has questions.
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Just my opinion - Alternatives are fair game when talking cooling options. I wasn't aware DeWitts was the only good choice (and yes, I think DeWitts is a good choice, but not for everyone based on budget or other preferences).
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Originally Posted by cooper9811
(Post 1595128371)
Just my opinion - Alternatives are fair game when talking cooling options. I wasn't aware DeWitts was the only good choice (and yes, I think DeWitts is a good choice, but not for everyone based on budget or other preferences).
When i wrote this orginal radiator post that was to my flattering made sticky my intent was not to sell or even suggest any brand on a person, there is way too much of that on this forum in other threads, I wanted to get some good down to earth radiator info all in one place, so no, i dont want it to become either another advertising thread for a cetain brand nor a thread to bash a brand, What i desire is what i feel any non biased person desires from a forum, just good tech and feedback, i see no reason for opinions to be modarated to death, this imho at the risk of sounding prideful is a great thread, ( thanks guys! ) It doesnt mean every post will be liked by all, so be it, people will have different opinions which is a good thing, Now back to our normally scheduled program already in progress.... |
Originally Posted by Kacyc3
(Post 1594951723)
I thought I had saw somewhere the details of what makes a radiator cool better than other, anyone have a link like that? Reason i ask is I have a 11:1 406 with uncoated headers and some unnamed alum. 2 core that doesnt allow for the car to get cool enough for the fans to turn off at 185 while on the interstate on a 92* day. I am going to try and see if this radiator can cool with fixing some things like lack of cold air and try some coatings on these headers while i wait for XSPower to be able to make me new headers.
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Originally Posted by jim2527
(Post 1595204034)
I saw something like that....not sure where though. If your not cooling on the highway one would think its an airflow issue through the radiator?
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Originally Posted by Kacyc3
(Post 1595204572)
Its not overheating just not a cool as others say their cars are running. How much does core size effect cooling? 2 x1.25 vs 4 x 5/8"
Is the temp gauge correct, ive never been a big believer that old c3 factory gauges were always spot on, is it too hot or just hotter? My 66 custom was very cold blooded, 180 stat stock radiator, i could almost always drive the 10 miles to my club or home at the end of the night and it never got hot enough to kick on the electric fan, the fan never came on while moving, In general if a car stays cool at idle and creeps up at speed if all other things, like timing, seals, spoilers etc are good it might just be too small of a radiator for the job, More rpm means more power and more heat to cool than at idle, On c3s as far as i know there are two stock core sizes, height and width but the way they are made how many rows of tubes, how many fins per sq inch etc that what makes the difference, I do not know how many radiators are made for example my custom made dewitts us super overkill and would likely cool any street driven car tossed at it, people on this forum report cooling tall hp with other brands too. Perhaps mr dewitt will give a run down on the specs so i dont post misinformation. |
Originally Posted by The13Bats
(Post 1595207077)
A few things to consider,
Is the temp gauge correct, ive never been a big believer that old c3 factory gauges were always spot on, is it too hot or just hotter? My 66 custom was very cold blooded, 180 stat stock radiator, i could almost always drive the 10 miles to my club or home at the end of the night and it never got hot enough to kick on the electric fan, the fan never came on while moving, In general if a car stays cool at idle and creeps up at speed if all other things, like timing, seals, spoilers etc are good it might just be too small of a radiator for the job, More rpm means more power and more heat to cool than at idle, On c3s as far as i know there are two stock core sizes, height and width but the way they are made how many rows of tubes, how many fins per sq inch etc that what makes the difference, I do not know how many radiators are made for example my custom made dewitts us super overkill and would likely cool any street driven car tossed at it, people on this forum report cooling tall hp with other brands too. Perhaps mr dewitt will give a run down on the specs so i dont post misinformation. Cruising down the interstate with out AC I think it should be closer to 180 seeing as how it has a 160 t stat. Really tired of trying to make this cool better, maybe Dewitts is the only way to cool this engine like i want. |
Originally Posted by Kacyc3
(Post 1595208540)
Stock gauges are sitting on a shelf along with the sending units, i have installed Digital dash and the sending unit is next to the t stat and running done the interstate it almost matches what the ecm is seeing from the sending unit in the head. So either both are wrong or right.
Cruising down the interstate with out AC I think it should be closer to 180 seeing as how it has a 160 t stat. Really tired of trying to make this cool better, maybe Dewitts is the only way to cool this engine like i want. i would hope it or any larger aftermarket aluminum radiator , becool, champion, etc would get you where you desire, if in fact this is a case of too little radiator, but i would be very sure it is just that before buying a radiator |
When I was looking for a radiator for my LS swap (LS3 525 HP Crate engine) I talked to 3 different Makers, My concerns was on the fan they supplied. After looking at All of them I decided to get a rad with out any fans and build my own shroud that covered all of the core and had some space between the fans and the core. I also did not want to use the thru core mounting.
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Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt
(Post 1593385328)
I see a lot of mistakes regarding this "missing tank". That is because many people see a car the same year as theirs and it has the tank, therefore your tank must be missing, right?
No. Only base C3 small block (no AC, no Auto, and no special engine) and BB cars have the factory aluminum surge tank. If your sb car has anyone of these options, then you would not have the pressurized surge tank. The filler neck with cap was on the radiator and there is no need for one. If you really want to use a catch can, you could just order a plastic one from a 73 or later. I don't see why you would need it but it would work. Normally you would fill the radiator about 3" low and this room allows for fluid expansion when it heats up. If you overfill the radiator it will push this extra fluid out when it expands. Often people will confuse this with boiling out or puking. Then they re-fill the system when it cools down because they feel they need to and this madness continues over and over. |
I had a DeWitt 2 core radiator for the last 10 years. It never cooled either one of my motors small block and big block in the 180 to 190 range which is what I was hoping for. I'm hoping for different results with a Champion radiator.
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I'm also running a champion Rad, I do not have the body back on the frame yet but have run it to operating temperature and run it for over 30 min. I'm running dual spal fans controlled by the ECM and dual relays. Engine LS3 525 HP Crate motor.
Tim |
Originally Posted by Corvette400hp
(Post 1595376519)
I had a DeWitt 2 core radiator for the last 10 years. It never cooled either one of my motors small block and big block in the 180 to 190 range which is what I was hoping for. I'm hoping for different results with a Champion radiator.
The engine has a goldielocks zone where it runs best and each engine can vary, most of mine seem happy 190 to 200 If you grab a 2 row basic apples to apples champion and everything else stays as is you might not see any difference in cooling over your dewitts Then if you go bigger, more and or larger tubes it might outcool what you have but not fair to blame the brand if the comparison isnt the same, Also there has to be good air flow both at idle and moving for any radiator to do its job, feedback on this forum alone proves the champion is a huge bang for the buck. |
Originally Posted by The13Bats
(Post 1595386839)
In my case i dont like going over 200,
The engine has a goldielocks zone where it runs best and each engine can vary, most of mine seem happy 190 to 200 If you grab a 2 row basic apples to apples champion and everything else stays as is you might not see any difference in cooling over your dewitts Then if you go bigger, more and or larger tubes it might outcool what you have but not fair to blame the brand if the comparison isnt the same, Also there has to be good air flow both at idle and moving for any radiator to do its job, feedback on this forum alone proves the champion is a huge bang for the buck. Do you think a aluminum 2 core should cool a 355 mild cam motor to the 180 degree mark? Or will I need a 3 core. The last radiator that cooled to 180 was a bone stock Harrison stock unit but I never went back to stock radiator because aluminum was the new thing. Starting to double think the aluminum radiators. |
There are so many variables comparing them tube size fin count things like that.i have a champion it's not the highest horsepower version but it does a great job and has for a few years now. I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer. They told me mine was good to around 600 h.p.
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Corvette400hp,
7t9l82 is right, i read and read researched and then some, Easy questions are not always easy answers, 3, 1 inch tubes will cool better than 2 1.5 inch tubes, or will they, its the same tube surface area, but thermo dynamics kick in, spacing, fin count etc, then whichever company is trying to sell you their product will show the tests to prove they are correct, theirs is best, Ours will cool 800hp but they dont say in what conditions, If i was buying a champion i would buy the one with the biggest surface area, Thats what i did with dewitts, for me more is better, and yes, if i did it over i would have bought a cheaper radiator, Or even taken a long look at brass 4 core stock, you bring up a great subject, Stock brass copper stock radiators, B/c disapates heat better than aluminum, the draw to aluminum isnt better cooling its for less weight and looks, A 4 core b/c will in most every case cool better than its aluminum counterpart, Its just heavier and i honestly havent priced b/c in a while but imagine they arent cheap, Will that champion cool your car? According to feedback on this forum with correct fans, yes, it will cool it, will it keep it at 180, thats pretty low, i just do not want to guess. |
I put an aluminum radiator in my 78 L82 in 2015 when the brass/copper couldn't be rebuilt.
It has a 160 degree T-Stat and stays in the 160-180 range even with the AC on in Texas heat. I don't remember the brand but it was about $200 and it fit the stock location ok. I also bought a cap that has the anode on it. |
I have a Dewitts radiator in my modified 69 corvette.
I think It was a direct fit module kit I bought in 2005. This is a high Quality radiator but My engine runs hot 200 ish. sometimes up to 220deg. 185 deg thermostat. I think its to small for the horse power. Its a 496 stroker with a Blower Shop roots supercharger and fuel injection. Can Mr Dewitts recommend a larger radiator, maybe bigger cores or more cores to cool better. |
Originally Posted by TOM B1
(Post 1595541292)
I have a Dewitts radiator in my modified 69 corvette.
I think It was a direct fit module kit I bought in 2005. This is a high Quality radiator but My engine runs hot 200 ish. sometimes up to 220deg. 185 deg thermostat. I think its to small for the horse power. Its a 496 stroker with a Blower Shop roots supercharger and fuel injection. Can Mr Dewitts recommend a larger radiator, maybe bigger cores or more cores to cool better. |
Originally Posted by OZvette72
(Post 1594872861)
With regard to radiators I have to say I am totally neutral as we imported our car with a De-Witt's already installed. I had no idea that there was such a large variety of choice and quite frankly have not needed to look into it as it does the job. Having said that I can only share my personal view and experiences to date of the De-Witt's High Performance radiator that I have and hope it helps someone/me make decisions in the future. Living in a climate ranging from 104F to 41F, I personally have not been a supporter of thermostats so that was removed day one giving a consistent unrestricted flow. Fitment of the De-Witt's is very clean with it's twin thermatic fans tucked in there like they belong with plenty of ventilation. Fans have been set to come on around the 180F-190F which happens reasonably quickly on a warm day around town. The extreme situation we experienced was a two hour stop start on one of our major highways which had the fans running the whole time but never getting over the 180F-190F setting. Glycol coolant at 50/50 mix keeps her humming along and I have not lost a drop since the last service I did on my cooling system which has been a while now. Looking into the future I am researching the possibility of using these new synthetic cooling products that are on the market so that we may travel with more cabin comfort as we don't have Air Conditioning.
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Originally Posted by Taarzaahn
(Post 1595600712)
I read on many places that taking away the shroud and most important the bottom of the shroud can cause problems in cooling in warmer climate areas. Even you have electric fans the air goes into the enginecompartment under the radiator and you will get a little overpressure so the fan will not work as they should. So try put a something that stop the air coming in from under the radiator and your enginecompartment will be cooler and get a cooler ride.
Thanks Svenska from a Danska living in Australia. |
Originally Posted by OZvette72
(Post 1595603814)
OK!! ... that makes sense ... but as mentioned, the radiator was already installed and original parts were not with the car when I imported her. What original parts should I be trying to look for, any suggestions???
Thanks Svenska from a Danska living in Australia. Hi from Sweden :thumbs: |
New to the forum and it's a great resource. Removed old original brass radiator (PITA) and installed a new Dewitt Black Ice aluminum. Perfect fit with zero modifications, '73 stock L-82.
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Put in a champion 3 row replacing original. No change in fan, stock L82 with air, never gets to 200 even with air on in traffic on a hot day. Fit ok, had work on positioning of the rad support to get it to clear the hood on drivers side.
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Spal fans
Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt
(Post 1595125474)
This thread was sapossed to provide a place to discuss cooling issues with moderator supervision to control redundancy and controversy. What it has turned into is a DeWitts Alternative report page. I am open to sharing my twenty years of Corvette cooling experience with anyone that has questions.
I have a DeWitts Direct fit radiator w/Black ice that I have not installed yet.i have recently decided to remove my engine driven fan & change to SPAL fans. I have a 1969 L46, my other question is, do I need to upgrade my alternator due to the increased demand? I appreciate your input, my budget should allow me to do this in the next few months. Thanks! |
The hardest part of this project would be removing the factory shroud, assuming you want to save it. Some guys just cut it in half and remove two pieces. If you go that route you will have the fans installed in about an hour. I would think the wiring would take more time than installing the fans.
Installation Guide |
Question
Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt
(Post 1595953318)
The hardest part of this project would be removing the factory shroud, assuming you want to save it. Some guys just cut it in half and remove two pieces. If you go that route you will have the fans installed in about an hour. I would think the wiring would take more time than installing the fans.
Installation Guide Thanks! I have the original shroud out, in one piece, removed the lower piece the th upper piece thru the passenger side. The car has factory A/C |
Originally Posted by rogernison
(Post 1595954440)
Will I need to upgrade my alternator or will the original work OK ?
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Originally Posted by Corvette400hp
(Post 1595376519)
I had a DeWitt 2 core radiator for the last 10 years. It never cooled either one of my motors small block and big block in the 180 to 190 range which is what I was hoping for. I'm hoping for different results with a Champion radiator.
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So Dewitts for trim and polish, but it comes at a premium. Champion if you're on a budget. Both seem to get the job done. Is the black ice on the Dewitt's worth it?
I'm still making a wish list so I'm hoping for more info. Besides the obvious on electric fans vs mechanical with HP loss, cooling effects, electricity draw, what are some preferred combos? dual fan vice one? After reading the thread about cooling the interior of the C3, anyone have try a dual fan? One for the rad, one to circulate air to stop the car from turning into an oven? And what about tranny coolers? I'm planning on keeping the tranny auto as I have the body of an 80 year old with knees that are held together with hopes and dreams so stick is slowly getting less fun in traffic. Heat kills transmissions and I'm hoping that can be touched in this thread. If it's covered elsewhere, I just need direction. There's lots of threads on this forum and I've been doing a ton of researching instead of working and for the most part I'm much more educated than when I started. |
I got the Champion 2-row for my car. 75 ac coupe with a ZZ6 crate. I ordered it with their shroud and 16” SPAL hi perf fan which they offer as an upgrade. After some fiddling around with the brackets I ended up making custom phenolic block spacers for all 4 corners. It is solid as granite. Also I tricked the relay controlling the fan into thinking the key is “on” all the time. If you shut the engine off when it’s toasty the fan will run until it’s cool. Everything seems very well made and a fair deal. George at Ledfoot Racing has been very helpful with after sales support. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...cb01a875d.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...73c1daa75.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...f7e8d9f19.jpeg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...e473d255c.jpegDetroit Speed headlight lift kit FTW ! |
Originally Posted by croaker
(Post 1593111234)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...aa2fbbb88.jpeg
Champion Radiator in. 3 core . This temp was after 45 mile run 90 degree Louisiana heat and,5 minutes idling in driveway. No seals in . Tyrus |
Stock piece. |
Dewitts Radiator
Originally Posted by croaker
(Post 1593022515)
Wow that's a lot of radiators. I'll throw in the towel after a couple.
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:lurk: |
Have a 142 weiand supercharger thats overdriven so my vette runs HOT. I put a DeWitts in and it lowered average temp by 10 degrees. Old radiator was not original and in excellent shape. After the deWitts the next year I added SPALS. Dual pullers. 15-20 degrees less. Car has not overheated a single time no matter how hard I push it. Those were the only changes I made that would affect temp. Sold on the radiator/SPAL combo.
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I'm starting to do the research on a radiator for my 73 big block resto/mod. I'll be running a 496cu in, a TKO-600, a/c and dual spal fans. The three radiators I'm looking at are: 1. DeWitts 2. Be Cool 3. Griffin Griffin is a good radiator used by many with hot rods. They have great reviews but I found they are epoxied together rather than welded at the tanks. I imagine this is not as preferred as welded. Am I correct in this thinking? Be Cool has top quality craftsmanship, welded throughout, but they are only available with 1 inch tubes. DeWitts has top quality craftsmanship, welded throughout and have the option of 1.25 inch tubes. All three appear to have excellent shroud and fan set ups according to their web sites. My questions at this time are: 1. How much advantage do 1.25 inch tubes give over 1 inch tubes? And why? 2. What is the advantage of dual fans over a single fan if both are pushing the same amount of air? 3. Is it better to have a shroud that fully covers the radiator fins or a shroud that does not totally cover the fins? 4. I've heard that the new aluminum radiators are manufactured in a way that really only requires them to be two core. Why is this and why wouldn't three cores be better than two? I think that's it for now! |
Call Griffin and ask why they use epoxy,, generally a company like that has a reason they do it.it may not just be cheaper.
Years years ago when they came out with panel Bond I thought it was ridiculous but after I saw it and use I said holy cow that stuff is dynamite. |
Originally Posted by OldCarBum
(Post 1598104998)
My questions at this time are: 1. How much advantage do 1.25 inch tubes give over 1 inch tubes? And why? 2. What is the advantage of dual fans over a single fan if both are pushing the same amount of air? 3. Is it better to have a shroud that fully covers the radiator fins or a shroud that does not totally cover the fins? 4. I've heard that the new aluminum radiators are manufactured in a way that really only requires them to be two core. Why is this and why wouldn't three cores be better than two? To comment on the Griffin Epoxy, they are not epoxied together. Griffin was one of the first aftermarket companies to offer aluminum radiators. Back then the only way to furnace braze aluminum cores together was a process called vacuum brazing. Ford Motor company did this as well. The problem with vacuum brazing was about 80% of the cores would braze leak free, the other 20% had tube-to-header leaks. That's where the tubes (not cores) go into a common end plate. To solve this issue all of the end plates or headers were filled with epoxy to seal up any holes. A better process called CAB (controlled atmosphere brazing) was invented which provides near 100% leak free cores and eliminated the need for epoxy. Every car company today uses CAB as their method of brazing and so does DeWitts. You may read other explanations and/or spin on this topic but this is the real story. 1. Wider tubes provide more tube to fin contact and therefore more heat rejections 2. The number is fans is typically determined by the shape of the radiator more than anything else. Square shapes use a single and rectangles shapes use dual fans. The goal is to have 70% coverage with a minimum of 2000 cfm flow. 3. Again, the goal is to have 70% coverage with a minimum of 2000 cfm flow. I often see people complain that a fan leaves some open space on one side or both. You should remember the coolant flows left to right and all of it goes under the fan. 4. I have a specific blog on this topic. Click HERE I hope that helps you! |
Tom, Thank you very much for the response and explaination in lay men's terms as I know nothing about radiators other than water/coolant go through them and they need to be checked occasionally. I remember back in the 60's and 70's it was, buy a three core, throw it in and you won't have any problems. Like everything today technology has changed how we think and build a project correctly. There is much more research and questions to be asked in building something like a Corvette rather than building a 33 hot rod. I will check out your blog. By the way, DeWitts web page is much easier to navigate and much more informative than the others which helps old guys like me a lot. |
Question for Bud or any member that have replaced their 1968-1972 with 350 engine, a radiator that did not have the indent/dimple on lower hose connection.
Did the front stabilizer bar interfere with the installation of the new radiator ? |
Originally Posted by shark70
(Post 1598129495)
Question for Bud or any member that have replaced their 1968-1972 with 350 engine, a radiator that did not have the indent/dimple on lower hose connection.
Did the front stabilizer bar interfere with the installation of the new radiator ? CLICK HERE |
Originally Posted by shark70
(Post 1598129495)
Question for Bud or any member that have replaced their 1968-1972 with 350 engine, a radiator that did not have the indent/dimple on lower hose connection.
Did the front stabilizer bar interfere with the installation of the new radiator ? |
Thank you.
Many years ago, I purchased a kit from Zip that contained everything to update/upgrade the suspension - front and rear. The front stabilizer bar that came in the kit is a 1 1/8" bar which is bigger than the standard one on a 350/300 with standard suspension. My car has been sitting in my garage for 23 years and I am finally getting off my butt and getting it road worthy. Took my radiator to a local shop and when he did the pressure test , I had bubbles. Some from the rows. Told me could not be sure that he could get to all of the leaks. My radiator is a 26x17 4 row core. I am the third owner and have owned the car since March 1979. |
Found this site while researching copper/brass vs aluminum radiators
Brazed copper/brass radiators anyone. https://www.copper.org/applications/...novations.html |
Originally Posted by shark70
(Post 1598159423)
Found this site while researching copper/brass vs aluminum radiators
Brazed copper/brass radiators anyone. https://www.copper.org/applications/...novations.html CuproBraze |
I was trying to find a date on it but there was none on the page.
The history of radiators on the site did mention about these radiators would be used starting in 1995 models. |
Ok, so here's my radiator story.
Short version: Bought a Champion on ebay, great radiator, good price, free shipping, cools great, really good decision. My Vette had overheating "issues." You know how it goes. You're constantly have eyes on the temperature gauge instead of being unconcerned. You GET concerned every time traffic slows down to a crawl. It's no way to own a car, honestly. So I put the pressure tester on, pump it up, and ...watch the pressure bleed off. Go around and tighten a few loose hose clamps, replace a couple of hoses. Go to replace the t-stat and the threads in the manifold strip. 2 weeks later I've got it helicoiled with a new 180 degree Stant. (A missing t-stat or 160 degree t-stat is a guarantee a vehicle has been overheating, right alongside the electric fans PO badly installed & miswired.) Test it again. Still won't hold pressure. This time my buddy spots a barely visible green spot in one corner of the radiator. Pull the radiator. Take it to a radiator shop in Farmington NM who tells me it's leaking in all four corners, AND the tubes are "weak" "Blows up like a balloon when I put some pressure on it." Solders it up, doesn't charge me much, tells me "fine for a weekend driver, for everyday, go get yourself a new radiator" This was an OEM brass radiator, Harrison, or look-alike. Less than a month later cars running hot again and I can see drips in the driveway. I had purchased ANOTHER radiator, off Craigslist for $50 hoping it was in better condition, but....it's out in San Diego, and I'm in Phoenix. So it would need a pass through the radiator shop AND transport. And might not be any better! I get on the web and see C3 radiators everywhere from $250 to $950. How the hell would anyone know WHICH one to buy? Say "aw fuck it" and order a Champion. Plenty of good comments about them. With shipping included I paid barely over $200 from an eBay vendor. Gotta like that. Get around to installing it. The straps don't fit like they used to on top, but more than well enough to hold it in place. Overheat issues all gone. Best $200 I've ever spent. BTW the weld quality on mine was outstanding. If anyone's doing a restoration, and wants my old one, for another pass through the radiator shop, drop me a PM. I might be able to ship it in the box the Champion came in. Or you can pickup in Phoenix. If anyone wants an original radiator and is in SAN DIEGO, let me know and I'll pass the other one along to you for the $50 I paid for it. Condition unknown. Location: Del Mar. No delivery, no shipping. It's going to the recyclers if no one wants it. FWIW I see brass, original STYLE radiators for around $450 PLUS shipping on the web. So it's probably worth a gamble and cost of repairs. There's also getting a radiator re-cored. Basically they solder the end tanks onto a new core. You're looking a minimum of $500 for parts & labor for a re-core job. go on Youtube if you're curious about re-coring. A couple of great videos, despite idiot workers not wearing safety glasses while using torches... Cheers! p.s. Installation tip. If you loosen the metal shroud on a '68 top AND bottom you can pull it back and slide the radiator in easily. Up top there are FOUR bolts, look underneath and you can remove the bracket itself and give yourself another 2" of clearance, not scrape up your new fins! |
Originally Posted by Corvette400hp
(Post 1595376519)
I had a DeWitt 2 core radiator for the last 10 years. It never cooled either one of my motors small block and big block in the 180 to 190 range which is what I was hoping for. I'm hoping for different results with a Champion radiator.
First of all I'd use a laser thermometer and confirm that your gauge is accurate. Next you need to pressure test your cooling system. It needs to hold pressure for 2-3 hours. No visible movement of the needle. One single drippy hose, heater core, ... and you lose pressure and coolant boils in the head and you're overheating. I ASSUME you're using 50/50 coolant. You also need the whole family of foam pieces that forces ram and fan-moved air THROUGH the radiator and not allow it to sneak out and around the edges. With that even a cheap 2 row radiator should be to cool your machines and keep you under 190. |
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