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This topic is worn out and it doesn't make sense comparing the Porsche to the ZR1 which isn't even made yet.
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[QUOTE=punky;1596062511]So a $325,000 Porsche will probably go around the "Ring" a quicker than the soon to be released C7 ZR1. Very good to know, gotta wonder if the geniuses here figured this out on there own or had some insider info.[/QUOTE
Base price: $293,200 Price for Equipment: $0 Delivery, Processing and Handling Fee $1,050 Total Price:* $294,250 .......plus whatever the Porsche stealership thinks appropriate & your local TTL. They will sell every one they make (2000 worldwide?) before they're even manufactured. |
Buzzkillers are here lol. Most know the Porsche is faster, but it's interesting to see how close the ZR1 can get and if can get sub 7 min lap time. The ZR1 could outperform in other areas as well.
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Originally Posted by Achmed
(Post 1596050064)
they also tore out the interior, or whatever is meant by oem audio and climate delete lol, not only for the gt2 rs but also the new gt3
GM meanwhile keeps interior intact and in murica fashion includes a 6'2" or more ans 250ish lb driver. |
Originally Posted by JoesC5
(Post 1596062493)
2012 ZR1 picked up 13.7 seconds over the 2009 ZR1 with the same aero package. Just a tire change from PS2 to Cup1 tires did the trick.
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Happens! ;)
Originally Posted by punky
(Post 1596062511)
So a $325,000 Porsche will probably go around the "Ring" a quicker than the soon to be released C7 ZR1. Very good to know, gotta wonder if the geniuses here figured this out on there own or had some insider info.
$192K GT2 got beat and went limited GT2 RS poorly http://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissa...vs-nissan-gtr/ :lurk: |
[QUOTE=HotHonda;1596062597]
Originally Posted by punky
(Post 1596062511)
So a $325,000 Porsche will probably go around the "Ring" a quicker than the soon to be released C7 ZR1. Very good to know, gotta wonder if the geniuses here figured this out on there own or had some insider info.[/QUOTE
Base price: $293,200 Price for Equipment: $0 Delivery, Processing and Handling Fee $1,050 Total Price:* $294,250 .......plus whatever the Porsche stealership thinks appropriate & your local TTL. They will sell every one they make (2000 worldwide?) before they're even manufactured. Oh, really? I feel so much better knowing that. |
Originally Posted by xlr8ion
(Post 1596063823)
Bottom line this GT2 will crush the ZR1 regardless of cost.
The power to weight ratios are virtually identical. The ZR1 has at least as much aero, at least as much braking capability and at least as much mechanical grip. On paper the cars are very comparable. S. |
Originally Posted by Snorman
(Post 1596065159)
What an ignorant comment, but not completely out of character.
The power to weight ratios are virtually identical. The ZR1 has at least as much aero, at least as much braking capability and at least as much mechanical grip. On paper the cars are very comparable. S. I'm guessing the Porsche has some other minor advantages like chassis, no removable roof (weight location and rigidity), lighter wheels (again, not all weight is equal), other unsprung pieces being lighter, very expensive and precise suspension, lower CG with the flat 6 engine, etc. As good as mag ride is, I'd be surprised if the leaf spring +mag ride was better than GT2RS coilover suspension. Over a track that long, those fast shifts of the PDK vs human or GM auto will add up (and less power loss vs auto). I'm also willing to bet the gearing is set up for no compromise road racing where the Corvette compromises for mpg. What puts the ZR1 back in the running is wider tires, but I still, don't see it coming within even 5 seconds of the 911 GT2RS on the ring. It's really hard to beat a car that is substantially lighter (and same P:W), with rear wheel steer, PDK vs auto/manual, purpose built with fancier tid-bits. That's a lot for 20mm of front tire and 10mm or rear tire to overcome. Like it or not, you're paying for more than just the name on the GT2RS. There is a lot of nice stuff on that car. |
Originally Posted by Snorman
(Post 1596065159)
What an ignorant comment, but not completely out of character.
The power to weight ratios are virtually identical. The ZR1 has at least as much aero, at least as much braking capability and at least as much mechanical grip. On paper the cars are very comparable. S. For example, take the AMG GT R with it's 5.94 lbs/HP and it's ring time of 7:10.92 and compare that to the C6 ZR1's 5.27 lbs/HP and it's Ring time of 7:19.63. Both cars have the engine in front of the driver and the transmission behind the driver with a torque connecting the two. BUT, the Benz has more of it's weight over the rear tires(47/53), vs the C6 ZR1(52/48). Both have Carbon ceramic brakes and Cup tires. Based only on power to weight ratio, the C6 ZR1 should have a lower time at the Ring than the Benz, but it doesn't. The C7 ZR1 has a ~3560 lb weight for a 4.75 power to weight ratio whereas the 3,241 pound Porsche GT2 RS has a power to weight ratio of 4.6. BUT, the GT2 RS has over 50% of its weight over the rear tires whereas the C7 ZR1 has over 50% of it's weight over the front tires. The GT2 RS has 16.1" diameter CCB's and the rear wing generates around 1,000 pounds of downforce, yet the GR2 RS has a top speed of 211MPH(electronically limited due to the tires). With the speed nanny disabled, the GT2 RS is capable of 220 MPH according to Porsche. The C7 ZR1 has a 950 pound downforce but isn't as aerodynamic as the ZR1's tall rear wing restricts the top speed below the GR2 RS's. I believe the GM said the low wing ZR1(with less than 950 pounds of downforce) has a top speed of 210 MPH. The power to weight ratio favors the Porsche as does the weight distribution and aerodynamics. |
The constant weight complaints and how they affect track performance are exaggerated. These aren't endurance race cars where dragging 300# around a track for 12 hours has a substantial penalty with respect to fuel and tire wear.
And we don't power shift around a track trying to better lap times. Ever. The C7 Z06 already was faster than the GT3 RS. The ZR1 has an additional 105 hp, much better aero, very likely revised suspension/MRC controls and has only gained 36#. And it's not "really hard to beat" those cars. I regularly ran away from them at various tracks in my C7 Z06 and I've yet to come across a GT3 or GT3 RS that can hold off my dinosaur ACR-E for more than a couple of turns. S. |
That's easy! ;)
Corvette Racing doesn't have an eLSD, CC brakes, and MR!:D
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Originally Posted by Snorman
(Post 1596067243)
The constant weight complaints and how they affect track performance are exaggerated. These aren't endurance race cars where dragging 300# around a track for 12 hours has a substantial penalty with respect to fuel and tire wear.
And we don't power shift around a track trying to better lap times. Ever. The C7 Z06 already was faster than the GT3 RS. The ZR1 has an additional 105 hp, much better aero, very likely revised suspension/MRC controls and has only gained 36#. And it's not "really hard to beat" those cars. I regularly ran away from them at various tracks in my C7 Z06 and I've yet to come across a GT3 or GT3 RS that can hold off my dinosaur ACR-E for more than a couple of turns. S. As to weight and how it affects a car's performance, the 164 pound lighter 2012 Z06 was within 3 seconds of the heavier 2012 ZR1 at the Ring and the 2012 ZR1 had an additional 133 horsepower and better 5th gear gearing. Both had the same aero and brakes and tires. |
Originally Posted by Snorman
(Post 1596067243)
The constant weight complaints and how they affect track performance are exaggerated. These aren't endurance race cars where dragging 300# around a track for 12 hours has a substantial penalty with respect to fuel and tire wear.
And we don't power shift around a track trying to better lap times. Ever. The C7 Z06 already was faster than the GT3 RS. The ZR1 has an additional 105 hp, much better aero, very likely revised suspension/MRC controls and has only gained 36#. And it's not "really hard to beat" those cars. I regularly ran away from them at various tracks in my C7 Z06 and I've yet to come across a GT3 or GT3 RS that can hold off my dinosaur ACR-E for more than a couple of turns. S. 300lbs is a pretty big deal when you're talking about cars this fast. I'm not really sure what to say to that. Forget brake points, carrying speed through turns etc- it's 3 tenths in a quarter mile :lol: Just in straight line acceleration, I bet the 300lbs costs some serious time at the ring. Now add in brake points being earlier and carrying less corner speed, exiting with less speed and being slower through the whole straight because of slower exit speed and it's easy to see how 300lbs is a big deal. Think of it this way: 600lbs is the about difference between an S2000 (2850) and a Z06 (3450). So 300lbs is about half the difference between those cars. |
The 'real' tests will be when magazines get BOTH of them on the same day with the same driver, not some ridiculous 'massaged' Porsche factory effort where we all know there is some 'stuff' going on. Not much different than when Pobst was 3 seconds slower around MRLS without truck loads of Kumho's and factory support in the ACR-E. Ring times are good for marketing...but there is no sanctioning body that says they aren't 'massaging' the cars. Call me skeptical.
Send them to MRLS on the same day...and I'd BET the ZR1 hang's right with the GT2RS. With the A8, I'd bet the ZR1 hangs with the GT2RS in the quarter mile as well. In both tests it could be slower, but it won't be by much, IMHO. |
Originally Posted by ZoratZ06
(Post 1596068527)
The 'real' tests will be when magazines get BOTH of them on the same day with the same driver, not some ridiculous 'massaged' Porsche factory effort where we all know there is some 'stuff' going on. Not much different than when Pobst was 3 seconds slower around MRLS without truck loads of Kumho's and factory support in the ACR-E. Ring times are good for marketing...but there is no sanctioning body that says they aren't 'massaging' the cars. Call me skeptical.
Send them to MRLS on the same day...and I'd BET the ZR1 hang's right with the GT2RS. With the A8, I'd bet the ZR1 hangs with the GT2RS in the quarter mile as well. In both tests it could be slower, but it won't be by much, IMHO. |
Originally Posted by village idiot
(Post 1596068135)
I'm not sure what power shifting has to do with anything. The PDK snaps through gears effortlessly. It's faster than a true manual, like it or not.
300lbs is a pretty big deal when you're talking about cars this fast. I'm not really sure what to say to that. Forget brake points, carrying speed through turns etc- it's 3 tenths in a quarter mile :lol: Just in straight line acceleration, I bet the 300lbs costs some serious time at the ring. Now add in brake points being earlier and carrying less corner speed, exiting with less speed and being slower through the whole straight because of slower exit speed and it's easy to see how 300lbs is a big deal. Think of it this way: 600lbs is the about difference between an S2000 (2850) and a Z06 (3450). So 300lbs is about half the difference between those cars. But it's nice to use it as a reason with no data to support its impact. Rather than make unsubstantiated predictions, let's wait and see what these cars run same track, same day. My bet is that they'll be pretty much dead even or extremely close either way. S. |
Originally Posted by JoesC5
(Post 1596069048)
It's refreshing to know that everyone cheats except GM.
Good to see you Joe...hope your C6 is doing well. Looking forward to your posts in the C8 section when that comes out too...The C6 is still king though. :thumbs: Btw, no one said GM doesn't cheat. You implied that all on your own. You'll see...the ZR1 will be right with the GT2RS at MRLS and other tracks, possibly even quicker like the last generation... |
Possible!? ;)
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Originally Posted by thegame
(Post 1595973418)
Spoken like a man that has truly never even drove or probably been inside one. I love Corvettes, always have and always will and a 911 is a better car in every way.
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