Trouble with wideband sensors failing
 

As time goes on, I see the average power of builds going up. I have had a lot of people ask me for recommendations on what wideband to run and I have always replied with a couple of my favorite options, one of them being Innovate. I noticed a lot of manufacturers changing to the LSU 4.9 sensor and I'm not sure how much that has contributed to the issue that I'm seeing people experience, but I'm told they're much less able to handle the heat that they're hit with. I've had a lot of trouble with wideband sensors lately with builds that I'm directly and indirectly involved in and decided to take a moment to figure things out. Most of the time, I see the sensors and wideband manufacturers getting the blame for these failures. What I discovered is that in the cases that I've been able to research, neither is to blame. In every case I've seen so far, the cause of the failures is the way the sensors are installed. The aftermarket headers aren't being made with bungs that are conducive to wideband sensors survival. What I mean is that the bungs are too shallow and the sensors are being placed too deep into the exhaust stream. I accidentally discovered by reading through some of Innovate's documentation that they even spell that out for their customers by telling us that the bung they supply spaces the sensors out to where just the very tip is exposed to the exhaust stream and heat. That's sufficient to gain a good sample for feedback. If you're having trouble and aren't inclined to remove your exhaust and have new bungs welded in, don't worry. You have an alternative which is to buy an 18mm O2 spacer and space it out. That's of course if there is adequate space to allow for it. In one case, I was forced to plug the bungs and weld in new ones elsewhere.

I hope some find this helpful.

:cheers:

Bret

Thanks for posting this! Appreciate the opportunity to learn from your experience.

The problem is Innovate....when you stop using their controllers, you stop needing to change sensors so often.

I had a sensor fail on Bret's dyno just a few months ago... lsu 4.9 from an innovate psb-1 that was nearly brand new at the time... I also have an ecf-1 but that one hasn't given me any issues, yet... I replaced the sensor and it has been fine since but spacing the sensor out is definitely something I could try... the sensors are pretty close to the tunnel plate and would hit if spaced out much farther but I'm not scared to drill a couple of small holes in the plate for clearance

I think mine is prosport gauges and the first one died in just a few months. Second one just made it about 3 years of running, a little over 20K miles. Going to install # 3 in the morning. I will look at the depth and report back. I'm using XSPower headers and cats.
Chris

I used the super long bung they provided and even mounted it exactly as they reccomend with the mtx-l. It still failed. I went back to an afx/afr500 and never an issue. It's innovates controller.

Well I know I’d like to go back and try it again. I too had a couple LC-1’s. The controllers took a dump. Switched to the aft-500 and no problems.


Btw anyone needs any innovate products I may be able to help.

I will have to look into this as I have had my Innovate take a dump on me 2x

Replace sensor and appeared to be the same issue. Reset the controller and it worked properly afterwards. I'll hang onto the old one to check it when I get board in the far future.

Been running an AFX for over 5 years on two different cars. No issues. :thumbs:


:cheers:

Innovate is hands down the WORST wideband branding I've ever used. Period.

****EDIT**** Ok, so I have to tell you guys about my awesome experience. The guys at Innovate are solid.

I called them up and explained the issue I was having with my PSN-1. It was out of warranty but I still wanted to send it in and pay to have it fixed. Whatever it cost, I didn't care at this point. I need my PSN-1 working.

Just now, I received a brand new one in the mail. New gauge, new cable, new O2 sensor, everything. Zero charge. If that's not good customer service, I don't know what is.

my psb-1 was maybe 1-2 months old when the sensor failed and they told me the sensor isn't under warranty so they must know that something is wrong, I don't understand why they wouldn't just correct the issue:confused2:

*edit*

Because they proclaim there is no issue.

They proclaim their controllers are the best, they operate the sensor in a different manner than everyone else which they claim makes it more accurate, faster...just better.

All good and well if the fucking thing would stop killing sensors lol.

make sure no exhaust leaks, and mount them near the mid or rear if you have a high output config. Like a wideband on the dyno does, near the tail.

Good to know. I can't help but think that it still has to be better than having the sensors angled toward the upstream exhaust. I'll take the NTK sensor over the Bosch any day of the week and twice on Sunday for sure. For my hand-held widebands, It's nothing but AFR500's. I agree they're the best all around. If only they offered the same setup that would allow for a round gauge mount display. We could disassemble the board and string up a display to the circuit board, but it's not something I'm willing to spend the time doing.

:cheers:

They used to be better IMO. My first innovate gauge lasted 3 years, through lots of abuse with only one sensor change.
I can't give them the place of the worst ever though. The early Auto Meter and a lot of the PLX units have taken that award in my experience.

Rear mounting works only if you're not concerned with what bank you're looking at. That's one reason I would sometimes rather have the X more rearward in the pipe.

Bret

The Innovate hardware is fine, the quality of parts, wire etc are all great. It's just whatever the hell they do to control the sensor, it just fucks them up.
The last MTX-L I fitted some years ago, the physical quality of the parts was great for such a cheap unit....but it fucked up not long after lol.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Bosch sensor..

Although that also raises another issue. Last few widebands I've used across a few different makes...the sensor has not said Bosch on it, not had a Bosch part number...and although they've worked great, I just cannot believe they are genuine Bosch sensors.

I don't think I've ever seen a Bosch part that has not had both Bosch and a part number on it ( unless there simply isnt room for the number etc )