Nail in run flat
 

I have a nail in the tread area of a front tire. I've read many posts here that it can be patched/plugged from the inside. I've called Michelin and GM. Both said this is true. Called Discount tire today (two locations) and they tell me a run flat can not be repaired. (company Policy)
Can anyone clear this up for me? It's just a small screw. I don't track the car, it's a weekend driver. 2017 base Stingray.

Thanks

Call a different Discount Tire. I have had two different run-flats repaired on my '16 Z51 coupe by Discount Tire, both for free!

I wouldn't even take the tire off the car.
Just put a tire plug in the hole and see what happens.
I'm betting it will be just fine, if its not then it shouldn't leave you stranded anyway and you can decide what to do at that time.

I had a screw right through the center of the tread. Patched and plugged no problem by my local Chev Dealer.
You'll find more posts here where patching/plugging a run flat wasn't an issue.

I've had run flats repaired at Discount Tire, no problems.

Discount repaired a Goodyear run flat on my C5 no problem. Depending on the location of the damage they might refuse to repair it. I used the repaired tire for a couple of years without problems. I haven’t tried to get a Michelin repaired however.

That's another thing. The guy I talked to at the local Chevy dealer told me the same thing. That it couldn't be repaired. Hopefully, I'm thinking, he's just the guy who answers the phone!

The policy varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, but Michelin does allow one proper repair (inside patch/plug) per tire in the center tread section. The tire retains it's speed rating. However, if the tire has been driven at ZP for more than a few miles, it's likely the integrity of the sidewalls has been compromised to some extent. If it's holding air long enough to get to a tire shop, then you're probably OK.

See link below:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=226

It is purely a matter of liability. I had the same policy in my tire departments simply because I didn't want to buy a potential problem for a twenty dollar repair. If the tire later fails in an accident or actually causes an accident, the tire repairer is almost certainly facing a long and expensive suit.

Its a shame that's how the world works, but that's how the world works.

Funny, I bought tire insurance from Discount Tire when I got my Grand Sport. Bet my local Discount Tire store will remove the tire and use a plug patch rather than give me a new tire! :lol:

Funny, the BMW Dealer will not patch my wife’s OEM Michelin run flats on her SUV. However the Firestone Dealer in town, who are very carefull and will not by company policy (according to them) patch a hole in the outer tread, fixed her tire with no problem. They say the Firestone defines “to close to the side wall” as the outer tread! That is the reason I bought tire insurance as the outer treads on the Grand Sport are very wide!

As you found, Michelin says one repair allowed in a Vette tire if it is not in or near the side wall.

Very strange, Discount repaired two of my run flats, the first one 14,000 miles ago and the repairs were free.

I just had local Discount Tire plug my 16MY rear tire that got a roofing nail in it. No questions asked and work done very well with my chrome wheels. You might call Michelin 800 # and see if they can give you a lead on a local repair shop they recommend. Are you near Kerbeck?

I just bought a Safety Seal kit and plug my own punctures. I've only had one fail on me, and that was due to me not trimming enough of the excess plug off and it glued to the floor. :hide::banghead:

Other than that I've had absolutely zero problems with plugs. Now, this isn't for autocross or track use, just on the streets.

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike

LOL .... I can totally see how that would happen, its crazy how some of the simplest things can get you.

I found a nail in my run flat this week - had a new roof put on, and they didn't get all the roofing nails picked up. Drove it in to Firestone Complete, took 1 hour and $30 to patch.

I have factory Continental run flats on my Caddy ATS and since the dealer was closer than DT when I saw the TPM indicate dropping to 10# I went to them. $30 later it was repaired and it's been over a year now with no issues. Typical nail in the tread repair. I was not confident the dealership was capable of dealing with a run flat, but they certainly were.

Silly question but did you try removing the nail to see if it actually went through?

Well, to answer all the questions, yes the nail went through, it lost no air so it didn't run on zero pressure to damage the tire.
Ended up taking it to my friends repair shop who repaired it no problems.
Thanks for all the help

I took mine to Goodyear, no problem cost about $35.00

Had my RF tire with a small screw in middle of tire tread plugged at a local high end tire shop for 3.00 two weeks ago, no problem. The new tire plugs are super good. Shop said their tire plug guy drove up in a chevy suburban with at least 50 plugs all around the SIDEWALL to demonstrate how good they were. No saying I would trust a sidewall plug but info only.

Not much to clear up. GM and Michelin say it is ok to plug and patch. I have done so on three tires without any problems.

Holed On
 

A plug in the flat tread pattern should be fine. Sidewalls are not.

I just don't understand why some people go the cheap or easy route and just do a plug. Why risk your safety when the tire experts say a plug/patch combo is the only recommended repair? Discount tire will dismount, inspect, prep, plug/patch, remount and balance for FREE.

US Tire Manufacturers Association puncture repair procedures

Tire Industry Association tire repair

Makes no sense to me either. Just because you did it once, and it worked, doesn't mean it's going to be safe again. There is a reason that it is not a recommended repair and only designed to be a temporary fix to get to a tire shop.

Picked up a screw last month in the right rear. Took the car to the local tire shop (Discount Tire) and they said it cannot be repaired as per manufacturer. I asked him to show me where it said that and he went to the computer and said see they said it cannot be repaired. I looked and Michelin said it could be repaired once. The guy lied but they said they would repair it.

Then I asked him if they have lifted a corvette explaining that my C5 had body damage due to improper lifting. He said no but no problem. It lifts like any other car. I said never mind and went to the dealer.

Be very wary of tire shops and make sure they know how to lift your vette.

My local Discount has repaired my corvette run flats (both GY and Michelin) many times over the years.

:iagree: My local Discount only uses the combo plug & patch method.

A. You get a Low Tire Pressure warning while on the Interstate miles from the nearest exit, much less from anyone competent to work on these low profile tires.

B. There's no Discount Tire within 100 miles of you.

It's not a matter of cost to me, much more a matter of getting it done quickly and safely. In all seriousness, when was the last time you heard of a tire failure due to a plug?

Have a good one,
Mike

If say for example tire was not repaired, at what point would both need to be replaced?
Good advice seen so far.

Fine for a temporary repair, but when you get it home, have it redone the correct way. The risk of tire failure is not primarily due to the plug, but due to the fact that the puncture may have damaged the tire structure. That can only be determined by a visual inspection from the inside of the tire.

Even if I could not get it done for free at Discount Tire, I'd pay to have it done correctly. Tires are just to critical to safety while driving.

That greatly depends on the situation. The fun flats are designed to go 50 miles at up to 50 MPH with zero pressure. In reality, they can probably go further. Regardless, in this case, the tire needs to be scrapped. If the tire is just driven with it a couple of pounds low (slow leak, constantly putting more air in it), then it will not really have any impact other than probably reducing the tread life somewhat. I wouldn't recommend you drive it anywhere near the edge of the performance envelope until it gets repaired correctly or replaced.

Actually that is what happened to me, tire was repaired but was told of wear litte in tire structure...so will need two soon since can not replace only one.

:iagree:100%. I would not track a car with even a properly plugged and patched tire. JMHO.

I had a nail 'dead center' on one of my rear tires of my C7 and had it plugged.
Its' been over 2 years and over 15K without any problem.
Just sayin'

Having lived in the DFW area for 32 years before retiring to my home town of Hot Springs to get back close to family, I know how easy it is to find someone in that area that does great work.

Up here? Not so much. Trucks and "beige" cars, sure. High performance low profile tires? Good luck with that. It's bad enough I'm considering driving my C7 to someone in the DFW area to do the MSRC upgrade.

Have a good one,
Mike

"Plugging" is OK with a plug/patch from the inside. If that's what you did, it will be as dependable as any never-damaged tire.

Plugging from the outside is not OK, even though some people get lucky. Moreover, doing it that way renders a ZP tire unrepairable for an approved repair.

Tire repair
 

Discount Tire (Georgetown,TX) repaired my tire.
As long as the nail is in a repairable area, they will fix.
Cannot be in the side wall or near the outer edge of the tire.
Side note, there was no charge although they nicked the rim.
They stood behind there work and had the wheel repaired.

Take it to a good Chevy garage, they can fix it. Had a sheetrock screw in one at 200 miles on mine and it took longer to drive to the dealer then the time to fix it.

Guys who did roof on our cottage last fall ran a big magnet all around the house, including on the driveway, but specifically told us to be very careful, that there was no way they could guarantee to get all the nails from the tear-off job.

:cheers:

No kidding, when they did the roof at out townhouse complex....I kept picking up roof nails for months.Probably had at least two flats.

sure can be fixed
 

have had nails in the GY Runflats and the Michelins (they do draw sharp objects) just as long as the patch is done correctly (concern about the internal portion of the repair so that moisture does not get in).

The Proper Repair
 

The proper repair from the inside of the tire.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7e45aee625.jpg

Discount Tire just plugged and patched my rear run flat, removing it from the wheel. They rebalanced it also. They did not charge me.

You would never say that again if you knew how often the typical tire guy grinds right into the cords when prepping the inside of the tire for patch cement.

I've watched as my run flats have been repaired several times over the past 3 Corvette generations that I have owned. Only a very light roughing up of the inside. Never getting to the cords. If they did, they'd be getting me new tires.

:crazy2::crazy2:

Well that's pretty much the key right there.
Watch it happen and know what you are looking at.
By the way, its not light roughing up. Its grinding the uneven surface so that is relatively flat or no longer textured (however you want to describe it), with an air grinder. Anything bedsides that and the patch wont stick.

I guess you have never actually installed a patch have you ?

No, but I've watched it done on a number of tires and no mechanic would use an air gun to lightly rough up the inner tire surface. That's just stupid.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...1f68677cf2.jpg

Stupid is making an assumption about something you know nothing about.
Even stupider would be making a condescending or insulting post from a position of utter stupidity.
In the event you want to know what you are talking about, then start by reading the some of the content linked by Zymurgy earlier in this thread.
If not, then that's fine, but you are not fooling anyone, and least of all, me.

Nail in Run Flat
 

I had a tac / nail in my GSCE I took it to the dealer and they wouldn't repair it They claimed they couldn't plug or patch it they wanted me to buy a new tire (wrong answer). Went to Discount they said tire couldn't be plugged but they patched it from the inside but had the Darnest time remounting it to the rim. A older tech complained that the tire was very hard and could not be remounted without scratching the rim. A junior tech overheard the conversation and told the Senior tech to sit the tire out in the sun for half hour, reluctantly he did and it was like magic between the lube and heat from the sun the tire was mounted very easy. So to get back to your question IMO Run Flats Can Be Patched

We'll let others decide who is being stupid here. :willy:

:thumbs: Of interest both docs show graphics that repairs are only to be made in the center area between the outer treads. That is the Firestone rule where I have had my Vette tires patched and new ones mounted. The store manager of this 12 bay shop said that is their rule and patching in the outer tread could get him fired!

The Grand Sport outer tread is ~3 inches wide and the inside ~2 inches! Good chance a nail could be there! There is some wording in one doc that gives some wiggle room but I know for the Firestone dealer there is none.

A Discount Tire store recently opened in town so I asked about their tire warrantee. They had a $40 off special and I paid $260 and bought it for my new Grand Sport tires. I checked out their capability and felt confident they could change the wide rear tires. Prior to their arrival I would only trust the Firestone dealer with the C7 and C6 Z51 rear tires that are the same width as my Grand Sport fronts! Of their ~20 Techs only 2 or 3 change wide, low profile run flats. Even the large Chevy, BMW, Mercedes dealer in town sends their similar tires there to be repaired or new mounted. The Discount Tire manager recorded some info from each tire when I bought the warrantee.

I asked the Firestone shop and they had a similar warranty for ~$350. Frankly if possible to patch I would prefer the one per tire allowed than a new tire after they have 5000 to 7500 miles! Hopefully I won't need the insurance but believe Discount Tire will use logic and repair using a plug/patch if not in the rounded area near the sidewall.

This $260 tire only warrantee is much less than the well over $1000 from Chevy for the tire/wheel package.

There's a reason behind the logic outlined in the bolded part of the quote above.
Dismounting and remounting a wide run flat tire is an absolute bitch of a job to get right. Even the most experienced people will rip a bead from time to time, even if they install the patch properly.
All a tire patch does is seal the tire from leaks. Its not structural. Knowing this, you could say a plug installed from the outside of the tire is just as good, as long as its not leaking. This reality combined with the probability of tire damage is why some people just use a plug from the outside.

The entire idea behind patching a tire depends on the assumption that its done properly and without mistakes. Unfortunately, the idea of zero mistakes from a tire guy dismounting and remounting a run flat tire, is just not reality.
The only good thing is that once the tire is back on the wheel (maybe with damaged cords and/or a ripped bead) no one knows the difference because its on the inside and totally hidden from inspection.

...

My Chevy dealer doesn't mess with run flats for liability reasons. Sam's did a patch/plug at no cost since I was a member. No issues since.

Yep it sure is, but not for the customer, for the tire store.

Did you have tire insurance? I see all these posts about Discount Tire repairing tires at no cost. Unfortunately, no stores anywhere near me.

Yep, there is a reason and I talk with the shop manager and make sure the best tech gets the job and tell him I can wait! I also stand outside the Service bay and chat with the Tech. Recall one who said sorry this is taking so long. I told him to take all the time he needs and there will be a nice tip at the end! They have a touch less tire machine but it needs experiance, especially for the 335/20’s on the rear!

You could be right, a plug may work fine but I prefer it is done right with a plug patch as more surface area to assure it doen’t result in a slow leak. Have had several on Vettes and the wife’s Porsche Cayenne and BMW SUV run flats repaired with a plug/patch and all have worked fine.

This Firestone Dealer is the best in town and will not use simple plugs.

Without a doubt, that is the best way to handle the situation.

I’m sharing my story not as an example of what should be done, but as an example of how tough run flats are. I have always repaired my own tires with a $7 plug kit. I got a piece of metal in my rear tire with only 800 miles on the clock. This was in my base. I drove home with zero pressure about 12 miles on the freeway. Luckily this was late at night, so I had no issues limping home. On inspection of the tire, I found a hole big enough to stick my pincky through. I plugged it with a double rope of plug with glue and figured it would last until I could get a new tire. The tire lasted 32k additional miles, including four 12.0 passes down the 1/4 mile at Sonoma and a Thunderhill trackday with lots of sliding! Picked up two more nails in the same tire. All plugged with my $7 kit. Really tough tires!

If you ever plan to take it to a track, don't repair the tire, Buy a new (or a pair). It is OK for normal driving but I would never take it on track!!!


//Motors5

Suggest you buy a Lottery Ticket! :lol:

Tried that, used up all my luck though.:ack:

Note: the track day was only because I completely forgot. I would have never done that on purpose.:thumbs:

I have been plugging tires, including my crotch rockets, for 25 years. I have never had a single failure, regardless of how I treated them. Never used a patch. Can anyone show documented failure from a plug? I have never heard of one.

I asked the same question: no failures reported, but got a lot of internet finger-wagging.

Actually, as I responded earlier, it is not really an issue with the plug failing. There are two potential issues with just plugging from the outside. 1) How do you determine that there is not structural damage caused by whatever punctured the tire? 2) How can you be certain that there will be no moisture getting into the punctured area from the inside that could cause the cords to deteriorate over time? A proper repair as outlined by both sources I gave above eliminates these potential issues.

Zymurgy,

Please take my response as respectful to yours, mainly pointing out problems I've had with repair services in the past:

1. Visual inspection for structural damage. I've never had any tech ever point out internal damage that changed a "repair" status to a "replace".

2. Water intrusion into the steel belts. I've heard this one a lot, but you have that problem with a patch as well. Water internal to the tire isn't an issue; the amount of water vapor, even in humid environments, isn't enough to condense out and cause corrosion. Besides, what do we do about all the things that penetrate the external carcass into the steel belts, which stops the intrusion before it gets to the internal carcass?

Now, on to my problems. Primary issue I've had is bead damage (well, really rubber damage that exposes the bead). Also the occasional wheel rim scratching, but that's just cosmetic.

As I've mentioned above, you have the luxury of living in an area that has a lot of resources available to you. I don't (anymore). There's literally NO one around here that wants to deal with 20" with 30 profile tires. They don't have the tools, nor the expertise. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when I need to buy tires; I may be driving the 250 miles to the DFW area to get to a Discount Tire.

Have a good one,
Mike

:thumbs:

No, he is the guy in charge of selling new tires! :lol: Seriously, that tire CAN be patched safely as long as the hole is not in a sidewall

Today I put on my Carbotech brake pads. While the right rear was off the car, I noticed a piece of shiny metal in the middle of the tire. Sure enough, a fricken' nail in my brand new 2019 Grand Sport with just over 100 miles on it. Fortunately I had the wheel and tire hazard insurance. When I took it to my dealer I thought that they would plug and patch. I was pleasantly surprised when they said to maintain the speed rating, they would have to replace the tire. (I did a happy dance in my head and will return tomorrow to have my tire replaced)

See if they will give you the old tire ... probably wont but I would ask.

:iagree: I've plugged both rear tires. The Slime plug kit cost a couple bucks at Walmart. 5,000 miles and no issues.

Can't hurt asking!!

My local Chevy dealer fixed this one for me 2 years ago. No problem since.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...522086ade3.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c4e5666072.jpg

If I may, the "50-mile" figure that still gets bandied about has very little to do with C7 tires.

That was the original figure that GM and GY came up with as a reasonable compromise between what the tire was capable of and how far GM dealers were apart. They determined that the tire could be safely fixed when driven at ZP for 50 miles at less than 50 mph and the available dealerships were at the most ~100 miles apart (nevermind that at the time, most dealerships were not equipped to deal with the tires) . This also did not really figure in GY dealers, who were even later in adopting machines that could deal with RFs.

Now, with the C7, Michelin has decided that the tire can have one fix (patch/plug from the inside) if not driven at ZP. The reasoning with this The tires are now, and always have been able to drive much further than the 50 miles at ZP to get you where you need to go safely, but no real way to determine how much structural damage has been done when driving at ZP.

The lawyers say there is no way to know, but the tires are capable of driving much further than 50 miles to safety, regardless.

If possible and the tire puncture allows it, re-inflate the tire ASAP so that when you drive it to a tire store, it won't be damaged due to low or no air pressure. Most punctures still will have the nail or screw in the tire to keep it to a rather slow leak. Driving Zero Pressure should be due to a no choice due to an inability to re-inflate the tire due to location or the nature of the puncture itself.

:iagree:

This is why carrying a small air compressor is such a good idea even with runflat tires. It's even more so if you don't have runflats. This non runflat Michelin all season tire picked up two screws simultaneously and with one refill from my air compressor was able to drive it 50 miles home with the screws in the tire. I pumped it up to 42 psi and it had only dropped to 36 psi by the time I got home.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...a8cf65b307.jpg

This is part of a toggle bolt that punctured my left rear. It actually "popped" the tire when it went thru. The tire was previously patch/plugged by Les Schwab (no problem). I had about 2500 miles on the car/tires when the latest puncture happened.

Discount Tire was about 3 miles from my house. They actually happened to have ONE correct tire on the shelf (that's another story in itself).

The manager warned me they had previously been unable to air up a new tire on another GS like mine. After about 90 minutes they gave up. Patched and plugged remounted old tire and I drove to Suburban Chev about 20 miles away. Matt in the tire department had the new tire mounted and balanced in about 20 minutes and I was on my way.

Thanks Matt and Suburban! You will get all my future Corvette tire business!

They said they had to keep it in case the insurance company wanted to look at it.

:iagree: I do the same. Have a small compressor that fits in the rear compartment. It is typically in the wife's SUV that also has run flats as we mostly use it for long trips. But I put it in the Vette for a ~2 1/2 hour trip to the Charlotte zMAX Dragway along back roads were there is not a tire shop I would trust to fix them.

Just called Discount Tire to see what it would cost for tire insurance for the new SUV, for what I bought for the Grand Sport. The tires on the 2018 BMW X5 all wheel drive are not quite as expensive but almost as wide so will be nail magnets! It has Continentals, 275/40/20 fronts and 315/35/20 on the rear! Almost as wide as the Grand Sport tires! $180 for tire insurance, which I will get.

what part of NJ are you in ?

Just did the same for my Z51. $237 to insure all 4 tires.

Well worth it IMO!

^^^
:iagree: Too much non repairable area with those wide tires! Bought yesterday for wife's SUV.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...f08152e114.jpg

With these wide tires, need a good tire store! :lol:

The numbers go up and down. IIRC, we had two different years of C6, one manual said 25 miles flat was ok, the other said "as little as possible".
Our C5 was 50 miles.
Our 2017 C7 Owner Manual says 50 miles at 50 mph should be ok, but personally I'd be surprised if the tire was still repairable at that point.

We had one fellow who posted driving several hundred miles on a flat runflat which he knew was ruined (huge cut), because it was a weekend with no replacement available. He stopped only because he got home and the tire was still intact.

^^^
Reason I keep a small pump in the rear compartment when on long trips. You can watch the pressure drop so if you can’t find a location with a “real pump” to get it to ~40 psi, which should last some time with just a nail, can use the small pump. If the air leaks out fast, it’s less likely to be repairable anyway.

Totally can be repaired. Even Michelin’s own info shows runflats can have repairs done. I had one done on my back-left tire and it’s been perfectly fine since. As long as you’re not trying to set land speed records you’ll be fine.