no start after head rebuilt. Think may be starter Help.
 

Hey guys
Im going to do some seaching tonight but wanted to put this out there and see if you guys can help me. Long story short. I am just finishing my fixed heads and buttoning everything up and go to start it and here is what happens. I push the start button dash lights go off check engine light on and sits quiet for about 10 seconds and then all lights and accessories come back on. No starter engagement, no clicking nothing.

Here is what I have tried.
-Traced the wiring harness to make sure everything is connected including all the grounds.
- Swapped batteries and made sure they were fully charged. Both batteries I tried started my other z06.
- Used key fob to unlock/ lock the doors. I thought maybe a security system could cause it.

still nothing.

The car is a 2009 z06 all stock with about 95000 miles on it. It started fine right before removing heads. Right before removal I did a compression test because I had a misfire which turned out to be a valve not sealing. The valve guides specs were awful. Anyway I thought maybe the 95000 miles plus the added stress of the compression test did the starter in. I havent checked relays or the starter yet so i was wondering if you guys have experienced this and if it could be a starter or something else?

Any thoughts?

What are the signs of a bad starter? Can you pull it without removing the exhaust manifold, im guessing no. I didnt remove any of the wires in the starter area with the head swap.

Thanks for your help in advance.
Andy

Suggest you don't over think this. Occums razor. If it worked before you f'ed with it, then something didn't go back together correctly or you have a discharged battery...

-Check relays

-Make sure battery has enough juice

-Make sure starter wasn't damaged/wiring came loose when installing headers

-Check grounds (see attached pdf)

Hey guys
I wanted to give an update. Ive got 12.22 v coming from the battery through the terminal block and down to the starter. I took the starter out and tested it. Tested good at napa. The bolt head on the solenoid had the tiniest bit of movement so i also got another starter and tried it. Tried it meaning installed and tried cranking. Still no crank. My old starter tested good as well as im assuming the new one would as well. I also switched out the starter relay from my other running car and still nothing.

Here is my symptom and procedure. connect battery, hit unlock and lock buttons on keyfob to clear any security issues if any. hit start button and dash lights go off and check engine light stays on. I hear one click. check engine light stays on for 10 seconds or so and then the dash lights come on and i hear other beeps as the radio hvac and other systems come online. I try it again and same thing. Im wondering if the computer is sending a signal to the starter to engage.

In addition to the heads I also pulled out the steering rack and put it back in.

The car is a 2009 and I have heard on these newer cars sometimes you need to do a clutch petal relearn. Im thinking this may be the next step. I didnt have my computer with me tonight so I couldn't log on to hpturners and see if the computer is storing any codes.

Does anybody have an idea of what items besides a new ecu would warrant a clutch relearn? Or has anybody seen the car dash react this way.

Thanks

Check ground wires by the book and verify they are all good and if that does not find the issue ask to borrow a tech2 with a qualified operator and see what signal is missing.

I'm also guessing you have a ground issue. That said, you already know which relay is the start relay. Remove it and carefully take the cover off.
Then reinstall it in the fuse block. Parking brake on and NOT in gear, press on the relays clapper with your finger. This will send (or should send) 12 volts to the start terminal on the starter, make the solenoid click and starter spin. This should happen even if the ignition is turned off. If this doesn't work you have,
A. No power for the relay to switch and send to the starter.
B. Broken/bad connection between relay and solenoid.
C. Zero chassis/ engine ground.

If it does work, the relay is not closing with a press of the start button.
To find that, you need to pick a end to start on and follow the yellow brick road. As I'm assuming you took nothing inside apart, I would start from the engine side. Stop and try to remember what you took apart to do the job and look at everything you remember touching.

I had an issue that sounds like what you have. It had something to do with the sensor that reads the clutch pedal position. That's about all I can tell you as I had it fixed elsewhere. I hope this helps?

I had a similar issue with the same symptoms. I changed the starter, relay, 12v and starter remote wire. My issue ended up actually being from the fuse box itself.

Hey guys here is an update.

I checked all fuses and they are good
I checked all grounds again and they are good.
I have power coming from the battery to starter.
Had both batteries tested and the are both good and fully charged.
After swapping starters the issue is the same.

My next step was to see if there are any codes stored in tahe computer and here is where it gets interesting. First I tried the hp tuner and it wouldnt connect. it said it wasn't recognizing the ecu or not connected to it. I have used it on two other cars so I assume the hptuner is fine. I also grabbed a regular obd2 scanner and tried it. It wont connect to it eather.
The last time I connected to it I was able to pull codes which led me to redo the heads because of the misfire. The misfire is because the valve wasnt sealing and not having compression in the cylinder. spark and fuel were there.

I havnt touched the obd 2 wiring since then and now it wont connect so I dont think it is a loose wire.
I did connect the battery once while the heads were off to fix two broken wires for the driver power seat, battery off when working on wires but connected to check and see if the seat worked. I dont think anything arched out. I always disconnect the battery when doing anyting electrical.

My focus now is to the obd2 and why I can get it to read. Any ideas, would all these symptoms be a bad ecu?
Thanks

I have a GM tool that checks the OBD2 system on the car and while I got mine from a dealership that was closing I would think some shops around you would have one. Did you do anything to the car other than the seat? What wires did you repair? The OBD2 system is a simple data bus and is limited in what data it has to provide but you have to understand that things are no longer hard wired to each other. I do not think it needs to be as difficult as GM engineering has made it. Good example is on the C6 coolant level has an algorithm in the AC control module that checks the rate of temperature rise and it's also different between the base car and the LS7.

An O'scope will not read the data but it will show if there is a signal on the line. A key point on data systems is all of the modules have to be connected for it to work. Just because it does not make sense does not mean that module is not connected. It's like I mentioned above why would an AC control panel cause a low coolant message. It is just how they designed system.
I'll go out to the garage and get the bus tester part number for you. I do not think most people need one but I tend to change the way GM integrated the electronics.

You said you checked all the fuses and they were good. How did you test them? Did you just pull them for a visual or use a test light or multimeter to see power on both sides from the top? There is a 15 amp fuse for the ECM (not sure which one it is). Confirm that there is 12 volts going in and out of that fuse. If you have power in and out there pull the connector from the throttle body. Find the light blue wire with black stripe. With the key on, using a digital multimeter, look for 5 volts at that wire. That is the 5 volt reference voltage FROM the ECM. 5 volts there means the ECM is at least powered up.

What's your battery voltage (car not running) at the terminals?

I used a multi-meter and did a continuity test. Ill double check that fuse. Ill try a few sensors to confirm 5 volts but when "key on" i can push the throttle and hear the throttle plate open and close.

Battery voltage was 12.22 when I checked terminals. The lcd screen in the car said 11.8v

Hey guys I just uploaded a video so you can see what I am seeing. I hope this helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6nk...ature=youtu.be

Do you have a plain old 12 volt automotive test light? If not, get one.
Connect the clip to the neg terminal of the battery (with the battery connected to the car and ignition on). First, touch the output terminal of the alternator Should have 12 volts there (Test light should come on). Then probe both sides of the tops of every fuse starting with the huge 50/60 amp ones. Then touch the probe to the engine block. The light should not come on. Have someone push the start button while you do this. If the light comes on, the engine is not grounded and is trying to make ground through the test light. You have not said if you tried the starter relay trick to make it crank over.

Another update guys. Tonight i did the jump the starter relay trick. I took the plastic cap of the relay and connected the contact points of the relay. The starter cranked the engine and it was strong like normal. While at it I also had my dad in the car to see if I could get the engine to fire with manually cranking/ jumping the starter. I had him hit the igntion button and then i jumped the starter. The engine fired and ran for about 2-3 seconds and then died. I tried it again and same result.

My conclusion from this is that the engine was getting fuel and spark at the right time so fuel pressure good, injectors firing, spark timing firing ect. It also seems like the wiring from the battery to the starter is good and the grounds at least some back to the battery are good. I have swapped out a couple "good" starter relays meaning they worked and started the engine on my other car so I dont think it is the relay.
It seems for some reason the computer isnt giving the command to fire the starter and if it is manually done the car will run for a few seconds and then die. This problem seems to get more and more complex, haha.

Also I still cant get a connection with the obd2 code reader. it powers up but wont communicate with the ecu.

Do you guys have any new thoughts?

Thanks again in advance.