1990 cranks but won't start
Need a little help, as I am not sure what to do next. My 1990 will crank, but has no signs of catching and/or running. The car recently returned from a 20-year visit in Italy, and from what I know, the car hasn't been started in 6 or so years (ran beautifully before that). I'll list what I've done to this point - some might seem irrelevant or un-necessary, but i'll list it all of so you have the full run down. Car has 17,000 miles, and is a 6-speed.
1. Removed all spark plugs. Checked for wear - all looked good and gaps were within spec. 2. While plugs were out, I shot some fogging oil to prep the cylinders for their first run. 3. Removed the sending unit, did a physical inspection - all looked good. 4. Pulled all the old fuel, and blew out the line between the sending unit and the fuel filter with very minimal psi. Also cleaned the tank, and pumped in fresh 91 octane. 5. Installed a brand new AC Delco fuel filter (with the flow arrow pointing towards the front of the car). 6. Installed a new air pump, belt tensioner, and serpentine belt. As I mentioned, the engine will crank and sounds strong, but has no sign of starting. My troubleshooting to this point has been: 1. Inspected #1 spark plug after multiple attempts to crank. No gas odor, and was not wet. 2. Tested spark on #1 - looked good and strong. 3. I can hear the fuel pump prime, and I get ~40ish psi at the fuel rail with the key in the on position. 4. While attempting to crank, the needle will jump to ~45ish psi (maybe a bit more) Other points to mention; 1. "Security" light on the dash will blink, and then go off when the key is inserted 2. Car has an aftermarket Alpine alarm system. I haven't armed or disarmed the car since I got it, or messed around with it at all (key fob batteries are dead)... 3. I've noticed my oil pressure jump/climb as I attempt to start 4. I don't believe the RPM needle moves at all while attempting to start. I'm sure you're at the same conclusion I am by now, and are leaning towards the injectors, and whether or not they're firing. I'll need some help in this area, as I haven't dug this deep before. I've read threads on a bad ICM can causeto this, bad injectors, but I would like your thoughts. Thanks so much. |
Use a noid light to check that the injectors are being pulsed.
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Thanks. I’ll grab a kit on my way home and test tonight. I was reading some older posts, and suggestions were made to test ohms on each injector, so I’ll do this as well. |
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597546597)
Thanks. I’ll grab a kit on my way home and test tonight. I was reading some older posts, and suggestions were made to test ohms on each injector, so I’ll do this as well. |
Sounds like fuel is not getting to the injectors, could be the vats, but you said the security light flashes and then goes off when you put the key in, that's the way my 92 works, I think that is how they are supposed to work, there are some codes you can look at, if there are any, one of the ways is , with the key on, hold the up and down arrows at the same time, when the screen goes to double zeros press the center fan button and the code will show, there is another way jumping the diagnostics plug under the dash, google c4 engine codes and both these videos will show up I think.
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Originally Posted by gemsvette
(Post 1597546919)
Sounds like fuel is not getting to the injectors, could be the vats, but you said the security light flashes and then goes off when you put the key in, that's the way my 92 works, I think that is how they are supposed to work, there are some codes you can look at, if there are any, one of the ways is , with the key on, hold the up and down arrows at the same time, when the screen goes to double zeros press the center fan button and the code will show, there is another way jumping the diagnostics plug under the dash, google c4 engine codes and both these videos will show up I think.
|
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597544161)
Need a little help, as I am not sure what to do next. My 1990 will crank, but has no signs of catching and/or running. The car recently returned from a 20-year visit in Italy, and from what I know, the car hasn't been started in 6 or so years (ran beautifully before that). I'll list what I've done to this point - some might seem irrelevant or un-necessary, but i'll list it all of so you have the full run down. Car has 17,000 miles, and is a 6-speed.
1. Removed all spark plugs. Checked for wear - all looked good and gaps were within spec. 2. While plugs were out, I shot some fogging oil to prep the cylinders for their first run. 3. Removed the sending unit, did a physical inspection - all looked good. 4. Pulled all the old fuel, and blew out the line between the sending unit and the fuel filter with very minimal psi. Also cleaned the tank, and pumped in fresh 91 octane. 5. Installed a brand new AC Delco fuel filter (with the flow arrow pointing towards the front of the car). 6. Installed a new air pump, belt tensioner, and serpentine belt. As I mentioned, the engine will crank and sounds strong, but has no sign of starting. My troubleshooting to this point has been: 1. Inspected #1 spark plug after multiple attempts to crank. No gas odor, and was not wet. 2. Tested spark on #1 - looked good and strong. 3. I can hear the fuel pump prime, and I get ~40ish psi at the fuel rail with the key in the on position. 4. While attempting to crank, the needle will jump to ~45ish psi (maybe a bit more) Other points to mention; 1. "Security" light on the dash will blink, and then go off when the key is inserted 2. Car has an aftermarket Alpine alarm system. I haven't armed or disarmed the car since I got it, or messed around with it at all (key fob batteries are dead)... 3. I've noticed my oil pressure jump/climb as I attempt to start 4. I don't believe the RPM needle moves at all while attempting to start. I'm sure you're at the same conclusion I am by now, and are leaning towards the injectors, and whether or not they're firing. I'll need some help in this area, as I haven't dug this deep before. I've read threads on a bad ICM can causeto this, bad injectors, but I would like your thoughts. Thanks so much. |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1597547076)
If the tach doesn't "move" during crank I'd lean towards a bad crank sensor but since you said you HAVE spark that's not the problem (no crank signal equals no injector pulse or spark)...just spray some propane or Brakleen into the PCV or brake booster line and it seems like it wants to start you have a fuel delivery issue...fuel pump or injectors !!
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Originally Posted by aklim
(Post 1597547089)
I don't believe the 90 has a crank sensor. I agree with the spraying of fuel in. Maybe starting fluid is also an option if you don't get carried away?
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Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597547331)
I'll grab a can of starter fluid as well on my way home. When you say to not get carried away, what do you mean? Don't spray too much in the intake?
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Originally Posted by aklim
(Post 1597547089)
I don't believe the 90 has a crank sensor. I agree with the spraying of fuel in. Maybe starting fluid is also an option if you don't get carried away?
|
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597547331)
I'll grab a can of starter fluid as well on my way home. When you say to not get carried away, what do you mean? Don't spray too much in the intake?
|
Ok so I checked resistance on all injectors, and all are between 16-16.2 ohms. Using a noid light on two separate injectors I get no light when the key is in the on position.
For what it's worth I checked every fuse, and all are ok. With the key in the on position I checked voltage between the two terminals for each of the two injector circuits (on the fuse box), and I get right around 12V for each. Also pulled codes, and there are none to be had, and none in memory (though I've only had power to the car for the last week or so) Used a couple shots of starter fluid and almost immediately the engine showed signs of starting. I didn't go any further since I heard what I was expecting. So now the question becomes why I don't have power to the injectors. What should my next step be? |
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597548517)
Ok so I checked resistance on all injectors, and all are between 16-16.2 ohms. Using a noid light on two separate injectors I get no light when the key is in the on position.
For what it's worth I checked every fuse, and all are ok. With the key in the on position I checked voltage between the two terminals for each of the two injector circuits (on the fuse box), and I get right around 12V for each. Also pulled codes, and there are none to be had, and none in memory (though I've only had power to the car for the last week or so) Used a couple shots of starter fluid and almost immediately the engine showed signs of starting. I didn't go any further since I heard what I was expecting. So now the question becomes why I don't have power to the injectors. What should my next step be? You can watch this instead of me blabbering away...LOL !!! |
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597548517)
Ok so I checked resistance on all injectors, and all are between 16-16.2 ohms. Using a noid light on two separate injectors I get no light when the key is in the on position. For what it's worth I checked every fuse, and all are ok. With the key in the on position I checked voltage between the two terminals for each of the two injector circuits (on the fuse box), and I get right around 12V for each.
Also pulled codes, and there are none to be had, and none in memory (though I've only had power to the car for the last week or so) Used a couple shots of starter fluid and almost immediately the engine showed signs of starting. I didn't go any further since I heard what I was expecting. So now the question becomes why I don't have power to the injectors. What should my next step be? The ECM is pretty crude so codes don't always tell the story. Did it start and keep running? |
I did not attempt to crank when I had the noid light connected. I can try tomorrow though.
I only squirted a couple shots of starter fluid, and so it didn’t “run” for very long. The engine sounded similar to the last few seconds before you would ran out of gas... if that makes sense. |
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597550398)
I did not attempt to crank when I had the noid light connected. I can try tomorrow though.
I only squirted a couple shots of starter fluid, and so it didn’t “run” for very long. The engine sounded similar to the last few seconds before you would ran out of gas... if that makes sense. From South Main Auto on a no start 1989 Corvette...he’s using noid light and brake clean..check it out !! |
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597550398)
I did not attempt to crank when I had the noid light connected. I can try tomorrow though.
I only squirted a couple shots of starter fluid, and so it didn’t “run” for very long. The engine sounded similar to the last few seconds before you would ran out of gas... if that makes sense. Yes, that means that something isn't getting fuel there and the "fuel" you put in has run out. |
I misunderstood then, I thought I read somewhere there is always power to the injectors when the key is on. Anyway i I didn’t have time just now to test all 8, so I put the noid light on the #1 injector and it was pulsing as the engine was cranking. |
Originally Posted by Maldini
(Post 1597551506)
I misunderstood then, I thought I read somewhere there is always power to the injectors when the key is on. Anyway i I didn’t have time just now to test all 8, so I put the noid light on the #1 injector and it was pulsing as the engine was cranking. |
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