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West Systems epoxy?
what are your opinions on applying West Systems epoxy and mat over VPA? I need to build up around the grill on my 61. It's already been blended with VPA. I'm considering laminating over the VPA. |
I use the West System on my car, when I combine that with a few layers of carbon fiber it is very strong....but you must sand any areas that you want to bond to otherwise you may not get the bond that you would like. Since I am putting a T56 in my car, I had to open up the tunnel, when I closed it back up, I took my sander on my grinder and opened up the fiberglass skin and sanded some aluminum I had in the area, then I put on epoxy resin, then a layer, epoxy, then a layer....you get the idea. Also when I tubbed the back end, I closed up the areas that were opened up with West epoxy and carbon fiber. is there a reason that you just wouldn’t continue with polyester and fibers to build up the area? For these kinds of areas I think I would use the polyester. |
A few reasons I want to use the West Systems 1. I have it 2. I've been told and believe it has a much higher adhesion 3. I need to build up the area and it's at the joint where the hood surround bonds to the lower nose. I thought I was about finished and ready to gel coat when I ran across this |
Areas you want it to bond to make sure it is freshly opened meaning sanded so it does get a good bite. Remember that you want just enough epoxy to wet out the substrate and the fibers. There is a thing of too much resin....also I find that it can run, even with the fast hardener. I have used some of the white powder thickening agent they sell, helps but not a lot IMO. Maybe I never used enough. It takes about 4 hours to set up to the touch and 24 hours to fully cure. Good luck! |
I've been using it with the ground micro fibers. I'm just curious about using it over VPA. And yes I grind the area 36 grit Norton discs.
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If your worried about the VPA, why don’t your grind it out in that area and just go with the West System? |
Or contact Evercoat and ask them about putting epoxy over the VPA....they know their product..... |
Dub, Chris S. MikeC, anybody done this. I'm going to do the repair today. |
Originally Posted by firstgear
(Post 1597573095)
Or contact Evercoat and ask them about putting epoxy over the VPA....they know their product..... |
Perfect! |
I would not put the West systems on my VPA. especially if I am going to apply a gelcoat on it. I know it is good stuff and I use it but I feel it is over kill due to never having any problems in how I do it long before I started to use the West Systems epoxy resin.
I can say that in 30+ years I have not had a problem with my gelcoat going on the polyester fiberglas and VPA. Hard to argue with paint jobs that old with no problems in them other than road chips from driving. But do what you want but I cannot say if it is good or not due to I feel it is not needed due to what the gelcoat is doing. I am wondering why you did not post this in the 'paint and body' section. DUB |
I used it only because I had it on hand and no more regular resin. I needed to build up the area between the headlights and the grill for 2 reasons. First it was low and could use a few layers to build it up and down a little lower there was a hole through the nose. I thought the guy that was helping me might have sanded through then I decided I must have cut a notch in the back side when I was roughing for adhesive. But when I actually started working it today I noticed it was just that thin. I'm not using the West Systems because it's the end all just because I had it. Once I get it blended I am going to top it with VPA and then gelcoat it. Until I ran into this I though we were about finished and I would be done with the gel coating this week. |
Originally Posted by firstgear
(Post 1597578447)
Perfect! i hate to admit it but I wouldn't have done it if you hadn't suggested it. Btw have you seen my nose I've been looking all,over and I can't hind it. Lol |
Originally Posted by Robert61
(Post 1597579201)
i hate to admit it but I wouldn't have done it if you hadn't suggested it. Btw have you seen my nose I've been looking all,over and I can't hind it. Lol |
You have a couple options, grind it out and do like DUB says or leave it as it is and move on. It isn’t the end of the world. You have time to change or not.....your choice. Your nose must be in your garage someplace! |
I agree...I would not apply the WEST SYSTEMS epoxy resin and mat on top on the VPA...I would grind it back down to good fiberglass and then laminate it up with it....then do like you thought and finish out the area with the VPA.
Even though you know that the VPA is some really good stuff....I am still one of those guys who prefers to laminate up on good fiberglass whenever possible. On rare occasions I will laminate up on top of the VPA...but the VPA was used to provide a good surface that I can laminate up on and it was not built up thick. Just enough so I can laminate up on. DUB |
This is just such a case. It doesn't have anything to do with strength I just wanted to build it up a little. I thought a lamination would be a better repair than just continuing to build it up. Once I have it in gelcoat its going to sit for several months while I work on other projects. Hopefully if there's going to be an issue it will show up. As always I appreciate you taking the time to offer your experience and point of view.
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Originally Posted by Robert61
(Post 1597585469)
This is just such a case. It doesn't have anything to do with strength I just wanted to build it up a little. I thought a lamination would be a better repair than just continuing to build it up. Once I have it in gelcoat its going to sit for several months while I work on other projects. Hopefully if there's going to be an issue it will show up. As always I appreciate you taking the time to offer your experience and point of view.
And obviously we can not see what you are seeing and what you define as 'a little'. 1/32" or 1/16" or 1/8"... So...'a little' in my book might be where I can make one more pass with the gelcoat and get it right....or do another extra pass with the polyester primer to finally get it to where I want it. So much depends on where this area is in relation to panel flex and so on. So many ways of getting a cars body to where we want them it is hard to actually say what is the BEST way. But I am sure you are diligent in getting it where you know it needs to be....and that is all that matters. DUB |
Experience is costly no matter what it is. I wish now that I had never introduced West Systems into this. It works great but I ran across something researching this. I remember seeing when I first started but had forgotten about it. Some people have had trouble using gelcoat over the epoxy. They have an article that goes into detail describing their testing and say this isn't a problem. My thinking on it now is they wouldn't have had to do the testing in the first place if there wasn't an issue. |
My point exactly and even if all the paper work and test says that there is not a problem. I still fall back on what I did back in the day BEFORE I used the WEST SYSTEMS epoxy resin. And that is why I do not use it when I am planning on gelcoating a car.
Like yourself. .I have no time to deal with a 'problem' after I had spent so much time getting something prepared. Not saying that it will not work...but I choose to not take the chance. And this is also why I cover all of the WEST SYSTEMS resin with VPA.. THEN it is OK to apply gelcoat on. Have I used the WEST SYSTEMS resin ...YES. BUT if the WEST SYSTEMS resin is exposed and not covered.... I have applied an epoxy primer on it ...and this is generally done on SMC cars....where I do not gelcoat SMC. DUB |
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