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no start no spark no codes
sorry misleading title i have a no spark condition only read on....
try Started car after a week sitiing. barely turned over used battery charger for 10 mins then got it to start ran like crap for a minute i revved it up and to get the idle to smooth out. it ran for about 90 seconds then quit. no sputter just like shut off quick. now cranks no start no spark. getting no codes. checked the usuall suspects. voltages at the fuses as per bill curlee ground wire at back of ds head. all voltages at fuses are 12+volts. ignition swithc is 2 yrs new. why all of a sudden when i forced the car to start in a low voltage condition did this happen cause everything was fine before....it did start a couple time over the last 4 days as i go out and keep trying but only runs for 30 secs then quits again this happens about every 20 attempts.i have a sd tune with maf disablled, reflashed tune still same problem. One thing to note: when i crank the tac doesnt move. in hp tuners the tac doesnt move.I had a lot of oil in the intake recently (turbos) can a dirty map sensor cause a no spark condition? Again no map code..no codes other than tcs codes but i have them for years a shop swapped out my good ecbm for thier bad one, thers alot of bad shops here in Toronto |
So you have a cranking no start with spark ??...when you said you have no tach movement when starting sounds like a crank sensor...with a bad crank sensor you won’t have ignition or fuel (injectors)...but you said you do have spark correct ??...what about the DTC’s you mention in the subject line ?? |
crank no spark
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https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d7860f72a4.jpg
Originally Posted by nitrouspaul
(Post 1597642789)
crank no spark
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i didnt verify pulse other than pulling a plug wire inserting a plug grounding it to the frame and cranking the motor (no sparky) ign relay 42 gets warm but powers all the fuses mentioned. i will try to open the wiring harness now and trace back the wires inside I should be looking at the black most specically no? I had a problem before yrs back bill curlee helped me on the pigtail from the inj harness to number 1 cyl was broken wire and needed replace i remember the same symptoms.I wonder if 1 wire inside the harness will disable ALL the pulses to coils and or injectors......
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https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...1d02fdd0c.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...690146ebc.jpeg
Originally Posted by nitrouspaul
(Post 1597644644)
i didnt verify pulse other than pulling a plug wire inserting a plug grounding it to the frame and cranking the motor (no sparky) ign relay 42 gets warm but powers all the fuses mentioned. i will try to open the wiring harness now and trace back the wires inside I should be looking at the black most specically no? I had a problem before yrs back bill curlee helped me on the pigtail from the inj harness to number 1 cyl was broken wire and needed replace i remember the same symptoms.I wonder if 1 wire inside the harness will disable ALL the pulses to coils and or injectors......
The “pulse” I am referring to is injector pulse...do you have injector pulse cranking the engine over ???...here is the wiring diagrams for both banks if you need them !!...keep us advised !! |
Originally Posted by nitrouspaul
(Post 1597644644)
i didnt verify pulse other than pulling a plug wire inserting a plug grounding it to the frame and cranking the motor (no sparky) ign relay 42 gets warm but powers all the fuses mentioned. i will try to open the wiring harness now and trace back the wires inside I should be looking at the black most specically no? I had a problem before yrs back bill curlee helped me on the pigtail from the inj harness to number 1 cyl was broken wire and needed replace i remember the same symptoms.I wonder if 1 wire inside the harness will disable ALL the pulses to coils and or injectors......
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ok thanks for that \I went out to garage to check on your recommendation , turned key and engine started, ran for 5 seconds then stopped. New development,,2 codes not before seen. p0200 and p0336 injector curcuit and crank position sensor. I think i shall check the crank sensor wiring, but is there a bench test for the sensor itself?I am assuming that a bad crank sensor will cause the injector curcuit code due to it not receiving the proper signal, is this a correct assumption or are both these have a common wire running to the starter solenoid cause i had burned the ground wire to the block pass side and the red wire to the solenoid fusable link wire, and repaired them both.I assumed the black wire went to block and red wire went to solenoid, as after i cut the burned off parts i lost track of which went were.
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https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...aa5f6c5b8.jpeg
Originally Posted by nitrouspaul
(Post 1597645769)
ok thanks for that \I went out to garage to check on your recommendation , turned key and engine started, ran for 5 seconds then stopped. New development,,2 codes not before seen. p0200 and p0336 injector curcuit and crank position sensor. I think i shall check the crank sensor wiring, but is there a bench test for the sensor itself?I am assuming that a bad crank sensor will cause the injector curcuit code due to it not receiving the proper signal, is this a correct assumption or are both these have a common wire running to the starter solenoid cause i had burned the ground wire to the block pass side and the red wire to the solenoid fusable link wire, and repaired them both.I assumed the black wire went to block and red wire went to solenoid, as after i cut the burned off parts i lost track of which went were.
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1597645968)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...aa5f6c5b8.jpeg The 0336 probably set the injector DTC 0200. Testing the CKP sensor wiring is a little tough because of where it sits near the starter...if you go that direction or want to do it at the PCM I can give you some help...I did a crank/cam correlation on my ‘01 last weekend just to have a good waveform for my library and this is the BEST benchmark to use but I doubt you have an oscilloscope. I accessed my signal wires at the PCM and it wasn’t that bad...I’ll enclose the waveform...you have a signal, 12volt, and low reference ground. The CKP is a 24X and the CMP is a 1X...the CMP looks a little cockeyed and I think it’s because I used battery ground instead of signal ground...I’m off the next few days and I will retest the Cam !! |
Originally Posted by nitrouspaul
(Post 1597646537)
ok so i went and checked for pulsing on the harness. power with key on engine off then cranked. no pulses. my grounds looked of pulled and reattached to block.where to look next, i assume the crank trigger is failed and not telling the ground to collapse the field, i will have to pull the starter again and investigate how do i trace back the wire using a multitestor or can i pull the crank trigger plug off and trip the wirres somehow to see if get a pulse on the injector wire?
I’m just having trouble interpreting what your trying to do here...now pulsing on what harness...fuel injector harness ??....how did you check that electrically...noid light, test light ??....with INCANDESCENT test light connected to BATTERY POSITIVE (control side is ground side switched) touch the striped wire of the fuel injector harness to the test light tip while cranking...test light should faintly flash if the driver is pulling the control wire to ground. Next, the CKP is 3 wires, (12volt, ref. ground and a signal)... with key on engine off check 12 volt wire to ref. ground with multimeter and if you see 12 volts power and ground ok...with key on connect red lead of multimeter to signal wire and black lead to ground...if it reads around .03 volts it’s a pull up Hall Effect circuit...while both multimeter leads are still connected take a 12 volt test light and connect it to battery positive...touch the end of the test light to the red multimeter lead that is still connected to the signal wire...the test light WILL NOT light but you should see around 12 volts !!...voltage will be PULLED UP to 12 volts...if good circuit integrity is good and you will most likely need a crank sensor !! |
rwobs thanks for all the help you pointed me in the right direction, after 3 days now chasing all the stuff up top harness injectors fuses etc, it finally led me to the ckp to check. i removed the starter then the wire harness to ckp. when i pulled it up top past the header it was crispy on my silicone orange heat sleeve. i removed to find the 3 wires with the insulation melted and the wires fused together. . after 3 hrs i was able to solder new wires double silicone fire sleeve and she started right up. I cant believe that headers wrapped in header wrap and then a 5/6 fire sleeve would not burn thru but transfer so much heat that the silicone got crispy, then melted my wires.I learned alot about procedure today on what to check in what order and how first second third etc using multimeter or test light. I want to say your sign wave is cool i dont have an oscilloscope but thanks for the guidance.
your way to check the ckp amazes me are you a electrical engineer phd masters or something? I was thinking my car pulled 2 Paul Newman movies this week. towering infurno (burnt wire) and Cool hand Luke "what we have here is failure to communicate (crank trigger) thanks all another life happens moment solved till next time.................... |
Originally Posted by nitrouspaul
(Post 1597648159)
rwobs thanks for all the help you pointed me in the right direction, after 3 days now chasing all the stuff up top harness injectors fuses etc, it finally led me to the ckp to check. i removed the starter then the wire harness to ckp. when i pulled it up top past the header it was crispy on my silicone orange heat sleeve. i removed to find the 3 wires with the insulation melted and the wires fused together. . after 3 hrs i was able to solder new wires double silicone fire sleeve and she started right up. I cant believe that headers wrapped in header wrap and then a 5/6 fire sleeve would not burn thru but transfer so much heat that the silicone got crispy, then melted my wires.I learned alot about procedure today on what to check in what order and how first second third etc using multimeter or test light. I want to say your sign wave is cool i dont have an oscilloscope but thanks for the guidance.
your way to check the ckp amazes me are you a electrical engineer phd masters or something? I was thinking my car pulled 2 Paul Newman movies this week. towering infurno (burnt wire) and Cool hand Luke "what we have here is failure to communicate (crank trigger) thanks all another life happens moment solved till next time.................... |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1597648642)
GLAD I was able to help !!...the most important piece of evidence was when you stated that you “didn’t see RPM movement of your tach during cranking”...that’s one thing I look for during troubleshooting of a “cranking no start”...but this doesn’t always work on every make and model car. No RPM movement equals no crank signal. No, I don’t have a degree in Electrical Engineering and not even one from Apex Tech... my credo is “Test Don’t Guess” which is an important step in the diagnostic process...you’ll save yourself a lot of money !! |
Originally Posted by nitrouspaul
(Post 1597649620)
thanks again the community is fortunate to have you...
thank you for the kind complement !! |
I was going to be all over this one BUT,,,,,,,, rwobs777 smashed it well.. :thumbs::woohoo:
Good job!!! :cheers: Paul: Glad you are back on the road! :auto: |
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee
(Post 1597651827)
I was going to be all over this one BUT,,,,,,,, rwobs777 smashed it well.. :thumbs::woohoo:
Good job!!! :cheers: Paul: Glad you are back on the road! :auto: Thanks Mr. Bill !!!.... I’ll let you stick to “electrical” and I’ll stick to “engine driveability” issues...LOL !!...Have a great week....OK, gotta get back to working on my wonky cam sensor signal issue !! |
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