Help to determine possible horse power!
 

I have a matching number 77, L82. I removed the engine and replaced it with a beefed up 350 ci engine but I need help trying to figure out how much more horse power it will have over the original engine without having it put on a Dynamometer. Can anyone give me a rough idea based on the parts installed in the engine? Please read the attached parts list.

Not really anyway to answer this with the info you gave. Without knowing the compression ratio and the specific cam info (could look this up) it could be just about anything. With that said, assuming a decent build, I would guess around 1hp/CI is a pretty normal amount these days. That would put your 350 engine at something in the neighborhood of 350-380 HP. That would put your new engine somewhere in the 150 hp more than stock range.

All of this is a complete SWAG though with no more info than what you have given.

Probably real close.... http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=108&sb=2
Lift .489 .476
Dur @ 50 235 249
DCR should be decent with that 67 abdc intake closing

Confused
 

Thank you for your help. I asked around the office after giving them the Comp Mother Thump-er cam specs and they seemed to think it would be in the neighborhood of 420 hp. That falls in line with your evaluation. I'm confused about the statement you made concerning the original 350 L82 engine. The specs on the car list the L82 as 220 hp not in a range of 350-380 as you quoted. I know the new engine has a great deal more power. You can tell the difference just standing behind the car and feeling the amount of pressure that comes out of the exhaust... it's nice!!!! The Mother Thump-er can us more of a "show" cam compared to the "Thump-er". I will dig up the cam and any other specs i have on file and post them. Maybe that will help with the rating.

Thanks again
ddhebert

I quoted around "150 hp more than stock". That 150 + 220 is in the neighborhood of the 350-380 I posted for your new engine.

Thank you again. I miss understood the way you totaled the horsepower. I was hoping the 420 hp guess was going to be what I had. 350-380 is MUCH better than the original 220.

I'd be VERY surprised if your motor is making much more than 300 with those heads. Stock, those heads barely flow 200 CFM, so they would take some pretty significant porting to even get up to Vortec-level flow. Heads and cam is where the power is made, you have a decent cam, but those heads are choking the motor (assuming they haven't had SIGNIFICANT port work to open them up)

[QUOTE=ddhebert;1597791395]they seemed to think it would be in the neighborhood of 420 hp. /QUOTE]

Not a chance. With those heads and cam, you're maybe in the 320 - 350 range on a good day. I've dyno'd engines with the Muther Thumper cams, and that cam design gives up a a lot of potential power for the benefit of the sound. Combined with the low flow on those heads, getting power over the 300 mark would be pushing it. :thumbs:

Lars

Edit: I just saw mobird's post, and I think he's closer to the truth...

Thanks. I have documentation of the head work. I will post it once I find the information. Do you think it would be better to take the L82 heads off my old engine and put them on the new one?

No. Vortec or better. AFR, Brodix, Patriot (whatever they are called these days.)

Vortec
 

Very hard to beat the Vortec with the guides cut down for a bigger cam, especially for the price. When cutting the guides put the new springs on at the same time and your ready to go.

It is real hard to give you a good figure. I didn't see part numbers on that list. Part numbers could help with a better guess, but it still will only be a guess. Who did the head work? If the person knew what they were doing it could be an improvement. If they didn't know what they were doing the heads could be worse than before the work. I see you are in Sorrento, LA. There are quite a few chassis dynometers in the BR area. I would suggest waiting for a dyno day where you can put it on one and get 3 pulls for $50 range.

Take it to your local drag strip, have fun and post your times. Your fastest MPH after a 1/4 mile will show how it compares to stock. Much cheaper than a dyno and you can have a little fun at the same time.

300hp

What's your budget?

Vortec heads can be had for around $500, they should be a decent improvement.

If you are going to go for aluminum heads, my vote is for the Jegs re-branded Profilers. They are $999 for the pair at Jegs, and they flow nearly the same as AFR heads of similar runner size. Those heads would be capable of getting you over the 400hp mark, though I would reccomend a different camshaft "while you're at it".

Thanks guys. It seems, all bets are off concerning the beefed up engine I just bought. I finally found a mechanic shop that is knowledgeable about vintage cars. They are basically reworking everything that has previously been done to the car by the four so called mechanics I have had work on it. The last and worst thing is the new beefed up engine I bought from a private individual off of Craigslist was was poorly put together. I paid the person I bought it from to install it and that was an even worse mistake. Bottom line is the new crank shaft drifts about 1/4" after the engine has warmed up. The heads were supposed to have been reworked but when we pulled them we found they had not, also, the rocker arm mounting studs threads have been stripped so a stud puller may not work on removing them so they can be replaced. There are large gouges in one of the cylinder walls. It seem as though some metal fragments were left in the cylinder before the heads were installed or possibly a part of the valve or stripped off fragments from the rocker arm mounting studs fell in to the cylinder. Either way we have to start over from scratch. I brought my original matching number L82 engine to the shop with the intentions of swapping the high performance parts (approximately $1,800.00 worth) that were installed in the "junk" engine into it. Hopefully that engine is still strong enough to take the new Mother Thumper cam and matching valve springs. I also found a used 700r4 transmission to install in the car and had it re-worked bu a professional transmission shop. Hopefully that will not be a mistake too.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...f3b4d432c5.jpg
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https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0ac9c4d8dd.jpg

What are these supposed "High performance parts" that were on that junk motor? Sounds like that motor wasn't worth much more than the scrap metal weight.

What I was going to say... ^^^^^^this^^^^ 300

It's your car but something that has been said but for some reason you haven't acknowledged. YOU NEED TO DITCH YOUR MUTHER THUMPER CAM. You are leaving power on the table. Those cams are designed to impress posers that value sound over real power. I get that money is tight and this is an unexpected expense. We have all been there. It's entirely possible to reach your 420 horsepower goal, with the right head/cam combo. Not with what you have. Good luck with whatever you decide

So far it looks like I've been taken for a long ride on a short bridge. I was given some documentation on the parts that were supposed to have been installed. I guess we will see once the engine has been dismantled.
ddhebert

Thanks. I have been told that by a friend of mine that is very knowledgeably about racing motorcycles and cars. I'm not that very savvy when it comes to figuring out all the technical stuff it takes to get the maximum out of a motor/transmission/rear end and so on. Someone recommended a 290/290 with a 470 lift. My problem is that doesn't mean diddly to me! I know I'm just cry babying, but I have just made a world of uneducated decisions based on what other uneducated people directed me to do. Right now I'm trying to pull myself out of the sewage and end up with something I can be proud of without needlessly spending a great deal more money. I will talk to the current mechanic to see if he can make a recommendation for the proper cam and what ever it takes to make it work. Now is the time to make any internal upgrades. I just wish I knew more. I haven't put my head under a car for any reasonable amount of time scene the late 70's. Back then, I really did't have much money to spend and now I seem to just be throwing good money after bad. I'm pray this mechanic shop will lead me in the correct direction... Only time will tell.

The first post that I made was before I had coffee, so apologies are in order. No one starts out as an expert and I am far from one. If you have time, do some research. The main obstacle that you will be facing is that there is almost too much information on a small block Chevy build. The cam range that your friend is suggesting is miles ahead of what you have now. You might find in your research that you find something better to your needs. At the age of 55 I still am learning about cam choices. If I could point you in a direction, however, Look towards a cam with a split towards the exhaust side ( more duration and lift on the exhaust ). There are cam designers that favor a cam like your friend's suggestion or even one guy out there that suggests less lift and more duration but the majority favor more on the exhaust side. You are doing a good thing by wanting to learn and I hope that you follow it through. You have been given a bad engine that wasn't your fault. One thought is to reinstall the original engine , if it's in good shape, this will give you time to build up the crap engine into what you want. It's more important to be driving and enjoying. Keep the down time to a minimum.

Yes
 

:iagree: Thumper, Mutha Thumper, etc all suck, they are a joke unless your going for idle sound only!

Thanks for the input but again I must depend on the shop working on the engine now to help make the correct decisions on what can be accomplished with my limited desire to just throw money at the thing. So far they have solved a great deal of problems the other guys caused so I hope the bill will not put me into a cardiac arrest. I am planning on putting my original engine back in the car with any reusable upgrade parts that are in the junk engine. Some should enhance performance and others hopefully will just make the engine more efficient and durable (see attached file). I am also asking the shop as well as a diesel helicopter friend of mine that has a 76. His is a killer car but he not only has all the technical knowledge needed to make it top of the line... he also has the money to spend on it. I just want to get the car and drive the hell out of it for once. I have had it almost two years and have not been able to put more than 500 miles on it, because of the problems that have been caused by inadequate mechanics that are used to plugging in a computer to trouble shoot an engine. Once I get the major work completed, I will be able to maintain it. Thanks for all the input.....
ddhebert

Almost looks like the heads you pulled off have stock valve springs on them? Hope the new guy sets them up right for your cam...cl and the car world are full of losers sorry you got bit by one. It will be worth it when its right & you take that first ride.

Youre not the only one...anyone who thinks their new engine will just cost what the ad says is nuts its always way more...plus redoing stuff, defective parts, pieces that dont fit etc all part of it.

Thanks. The new guys are the ones that realized I needed heaver springs. The engine would backfire at around 3500 rpm's. I thought it was the timing, but naturally I was wrong...AGAIN! Thanks to everyone's input I'm replacing the Mother Thumper cam. I don't know with what. I will leave that to the new guys. Even though other knowledgeable people told me about that cam, because I have already wasted so much money on the car, I didn't want to go through the additional expense of going into the engine. Now I'm going to put it together the right way...the hell with the cost [at least until my wife catches wind of this]! I have only put less than 100 miles on that engine. I think I'm going to change my log in name to "KNOT-HEAD". That is what my daddy used to call me. What is the hardest part of a tree? THE KNOT! Guess I haven't changed much in the last 67 years.
I know I'm not the only one... but that does not make the facts any harder to swallow. I have mainly chosen the wrong people to work on the car, when I should have been working on it myself, from the beginning. Yea, I have plenty excuses (limestone double car port and 95 degrees, 67 years old, 330 pounds [100 pounds over weight], don't see very well, Essential tremors [my hands shake when I attempt to use them] and just down right lazy). Well I concreted the car port, got a couple of good fans plus it's beginning to cool off in South Louisiana, realize I only have about 20 years left to live and need to make the best of them, lost 15 pounds, still can't see worth a damn, just have to deal with the tremors [vaping Hemp Oil helps], made up my mind to quit taking ass whippings and do it myself [after the major work has been completed]. I sure miss my 96 Road King (the flood of 2016 took it). This car was supposed to be a suitable replacement for it but it has just been a pain in my ass.
Thanks again. With all of the knowledgeable people on this site that are willing to share their trials and tribulations with "KNOT-HEADS" like me, this car is going to be a show stopper.
KNOT-HEAD

Start with the basics and keep in mind that every component in the motor has to work together with all the components in the car including transmission and rear end gearing.
Don't worry about how much torque and horsepower the motor will put out in rpm ranges you will never run at.
If you plan to street cruise you don't need a large cam that makes peak hp at or over 6000 rpm.
For a street cruiser you may want peak hp and torque at 5200-5400 rpm and might look at hydraulic roller cams that have a power range of 1200 to 5400 rpm and keep compression ratio at around 9.0 to 1.
Pick yourself up a good set of heads that will flow well and match the needs of the cam/ bore/stroke/compression ratio.
Throw on a good carb, intake, ignition system and headers and you should be very happy with the results.
Don't get hung up on big lift loopy cams or horsepower numbers from a dyno run.
I'm in the process of building a big cubic inch motor that is estimated to put out tons of torque and hp, but I'll never put it on a dyno because as long as it runs strong and is dependable, I don't really care about dyno numbers and bragging rights.
Find a good performance machine shop with a good reputation to help you out.

Thank you for the advice. The mechanic shop has brought my original block to a reputable machine shop to be checked out before we go any further with it. I will give them your recommendations so they can pick a suitable cam. My diesel helicopter mechanic friend has a set of vortex drilled for a SBC, with valves, heavy springs and pinned studs for a large cam. I already have a Edelbrock carb, high rise intake manifold, high volume fuel pump, Copper Core spark plugs, 160 degree thermostat, DUI GM Street/Strip distributor, Patriot PTE-H8025-1 headers, Doug DOU-DEC250AK electric exhaust cut-outs, rebuilt 700r4 transmission and 2500 stall converter. Now all I need is at least one of the two engines I have in good condition so I can put them on. The bad thing is... I'm already into the mechanic shop for around $4k and I don't have a running engine yet. I may be better off buying a 383 from JEGS for around $3.5k instead of rebuilding what I have. Only time will tell!!!!
KNOT-HEAD

Yes,,, yes, by all means... get a Jeggs 383 crate motor... you have nothing up there worth keeping. ^^^^^

I can see anything else going all bad, I know you are here for advice, some that has been given you is good... some not so good... fast, reliable, cheep... you can only pick 2,, My boys and I race these cars, we have 6 of them all the way up the CX tree...
I am not going to get into a stitch over who I disagree with here, but IMHO, you are not ready to pick parts to assemble your own engine yet,,, you need more time to learn junk parts from quality parts, what works with what and what does not....There are a lot of "go cheep" racers here,, and thats cool.. reliable power cost money.. reliable mechanics are hard to find... truthful ones even harder to find... get the Jeggs.... get the best one you can for the money... remember, there is no replacement for displacement... 383? go a 396, or a 427 sbc.. jmho.... good luck
p

Blueprint
 

So out of curiosity, how come you are trusting this new shop so much? If the last one (or two) have screwed you over, or given you bad advice on parts/cam choice, why trust that this new shop isn't going to take you for a ride?

Honestly, the only way you can know is to learn. Sounds like you have very little understanding (I don't mean that AT ALL as an insult, everyone starts somewhere!) of your motor, so any of these shops can tell you what is wrong or what you need, and you have to believe them because they are the "Experts".

If I were you, I would take a deep breath, and start learning. The internet is a FANTASTIC resource for learning about your motor, and your motor happens to be one of the most researched motors around. There are multiple magazines and video series that cover every aspect of the Small Block Chevy. Once you have a better understanding of how everything works together, and what makes certain parts better than others, you can make a more educated decision on what to do with your motor. Otherwise you forever have to trust others to make those decisions and recommendations for you, and as you learned the hard way, sometimes they will make the WRONG decisions and WRONG recommendations!

Agree with everything Mobird said. If you have not already, you might visit the summit website (or jegs) and get a few books. Something like this...https://www.summitracing.com/nv/parts/sad-sa57 There are many many more of these types of books and they help immensly. Better than trying to weed through random advice on the web as well IMO.

Thanks again,
I'm looking at a JEGS blueprinted SBC 383CI Dressed 420/450TQ W/aluminum heads
Cam Specs:
Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Duration: @ .050" Lift: 292 Intake / 230 Exhaust
Lift: .480" Intake / .486" Exhaust

The junk engine has a Comp 287T H-107 Mother Thumper cam.
Cam Specs:
Duration @ .050" Lift: 287 Intake 235 / 249 Exhaust
Lobe Lift: Intake .3270 / Exhaust .3170
Lobe separation: 107.0

HERE IS WHERE I NEED ALL THE HELP I CAN GET...I have two concerns:
1. Is this engine going to be too tall to fit under my original L82 hood. If not, that is more money to replace and paint the hood.
2. I KNOW... The Mother Thumper cam is crap and I sacrifice power for sound. Look! I'm a 67 year old, 320 pound (this morning) fat man... I'm not going to be racing this or any other car. I really liked the sound of the Mother Thumper cam in combination with the Patriot headers, Doug electric cut-outs and would like the new engine to sound close to the same (ex-18 year old 57 Chevy Belair board to 292 with 375 Iskey cam, ex-Harley Road King with low end cam rider). I like the acceleration and the sound of high horsepower and loping cams.

I have no ideas what the new engine and cam will sound like. Can anyone let me know if it will be a similar sound as the MT cam? I will call JEGS to see if the engine will fit under the existing hood. I would really like to have the 420hp but I just don't want to spend more than I have too.

I have been looking at something else. I have the parts that I can salvage off the other two engines and put on a 383 crate engine but they will reduce the potential 420hp and I don't know bu how much and how much money it will save me because of the added labor cost involved in making the swap.
1. New 7 quart oil pan (no hp drop)
2. New Melling high volume oil pump (no hp drop)
3. New SUM-G3502P oil pickup (no hp drop)
3. Original Edelbrock high rise intake manifold, originally on the 350 L82 (HP DROP)
4. Original Quadrojet, or Edelbrock (not sure what size but I will check) carburetor (HP DROP)
5. NEW DUI GM Street/Strip distributor (no hp drop)

Please correct me if I am wrong. I should be able to not only save some money by salvaging my new/existing parts. The lower profile of the Edelbrock high rise manifold and one of the two existing carburetors will allow the 383/420hp engine block to fit under my existing hood. I just don't know how much HP I will loose. I'm thinking even with the horse power loss it will still be a hell of a lot of power in that light of a car. I would really appreciate any light anyone could shine on my concerns.

Thanks,
I have been looking In JEGS and Summit. I haven't noticed anything that was specifically "Nebraska". What difference does "Nebraska" make?

Thanks for the advice and NO, I did not take it the wrong way. I have people that just sugar coat things and beat around the bush. I'm a face to face, toe to toe kind of old school guy. I appreciate the same out of others. You are 100% correct in your evaluation. I have many issues with working on the car myself, even though I would love too and hopefully will do in the near future. These are not excuses... just facts. I'm a 67 year old, 320lb...this morning, fat man that doesn't see very well, 5 partially crushed vertebrae, arthritis, working under a car port in south Louisiana where the temperature reaches in the 100's. I worked on cars in high school (graduated in 1969). Started working at 12 years old. Saved enough money to pay for my own car insurance and buy my first car at 15. It was my dream car, a 57 Chevy Belair. I was street racing the car, blew the engine and didn't have the money to repair it. I a friend offered me a few hundred dollars for the car. I was engaged to be married (that's why I didn't have the money to fix my first true love...THE 57), was leaving for college on a full football scholarship so I sold the car to my friend. After that I lost interest in muscle cars for a while. My next car was a Renault Daphne. If you are under 40... you will have to look it up. It was similar to a Volkswagen Beetle. I needed something economical on gas to drive back and fourth to college. After all, regular gas had jumped up to over 30 cents a gallon. Now I'm with my second wife and best friend. Raised two boys, now in their late 30's. Lost my third true love in the Louisiana flood of 2016 (96 Harley Road King with a low end cam) and decided to replace it with a muscle car instead of another bike.....BIG MISTAKE.

So, with all that bull out of the way. I am limited to what I can do so I depend on others for direction. I made bad choices. First picking a car on impulse instead of taking it to have it checked out by a reputable mechanic shop. Second, I was impatient and did not wait for the person that came highly recommended as a Corvette Restorer, to restore the car, so I brought it to one of those "friend of a friend" shade tree mechanics. Another big mistake and so on and so on! Now I have a mechanic shop that my oldest son and one of my close friends (a diesel helicopter mechanic and owner of a cherry 76 Corvette) recommended (both are perfectionist). I feel very good about this shop. Problem is... they are very expensive, but you have to pay for quality.

With the help of my friend and the good people on this site, I am gradually learning the technical aspect of the internal combustion engine. I wish I had made better choices in the past....but I did not. Live and learn. So, going ahead, I am trying to look before I leap and it is hard for someone like me to do...but I getting better at it. I'm now hoping I am making the correct decision in getting a crate engine instead of trying to paying this new shop to repair what I have. Only time will tell. I hope I answered all your questions. I do hope to learn more as time goes on but for now, I am at the mercy of others.

NOT-HEAD

Experience!
 

KH: Some of the forum members have the experience and knowledge to piece together an engine from parts on hand.
For most of us we have to trust others to do things correctly.
Then pay them to do that! lol

You might want to use the search and see what other members are running for an engine combo.
and how they like it!

I doubt a crate engine will measure up to a hand built custom engine.
But for many of us it is a good place to start.

BTW: Getting ripped off seems to be commonplace for too many of us! WTF

JMHO

R

THANKS,
I have been looking at both JEGS and Summit. After considering all the advice I have received both from the good people on this site but also some of my trusted friends, it looks like a crate engine is going to be the best rout for me to take instead of attempting to rebuild one of my two existing engines. Even though I do go with a crate engine, I will still want to continue to boost the "aaaaaw factor" of driving a 77 Corvette.

NOT-HEAD

Thanks for the input. I agree, a crate engine will not match the quality of an engine that is designed and built by a highly qualified technician. My diesel helicopter mechanic friend, that owns a 76 Corvette, in cherry condition had a football party at his house yesterday and naturally the first thing I ask him about was the crate engines I have found. He starts trying to explain the lift and duration of a cam, the flow of the heads, the correct vacuum pressure and how much will be lost by using an incompatible cam...bla, bla, bla.!!!! All that went right over my balding head. I feel I am not even close to the point of intelligently picking the correct parts to assemble a state of the art engine I would love to have. I have to depend on others and hopefully will be more successful in the future than I have been in the past. A little knowledge is a VERY expensive thing.

KNOT-HEAD

KH: Most of the forum is happy to share experience.
The problem is building the engine YOU WANT!
We already know what we want! lol

What do you want from your engine and how much do you want to spend?
These are the important questions for now! eek

R

Thanks for the reply,
I have recently been talking to more compliant and trust worthy mechanics as well as engine builders. I just tried to take the cheep route in the beginning and that turned out to be a very expensive education. I have been a VERY happy married man for over forty years. She has put up with a great deal of my stupidity in the past but at this late date when we are at retirement age, her understanding and patience with my stupidity is wearing thin. The money I am wasting is hers also, so I really need to do a better job and not just through away more money on this car. It seams just putting a crate engine in the car will be the most economical and reliable route to take.

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks,
Yup. A great many of the people on this site are very competent and have the knowledge, tools, facilities and money to build the "best of the best", like we all would love to have. The majority of us only have the DREAM! We have to learn to accept the facts, sooner or later. When I started looking at Corvettes a guy I worked with had been dealing with vintage Corvettes for many years. Naturally I kept bringing him advertisements from car magazines that listed 77 Corvette's in the $8k price range. He kept showing me 77 Corvettes in the $20k price range. But I am hard headed (KNOT-HEAD) and bought a 77 that had a new paint job and looked good over one that was mechanically sound... BIG MISTAKE! Like the guy tried to tell me after a few weeks of tolerating my ignorance and hard hardheadedness, "IT'S A FORTY YEAR OLD CAR....EITHER YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY OR YOU ARE GOING TO PAY MORE FOR ONE THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS SPENT THE MONEY ON!!!!! He also said "if you get one that you spend the money upgrading, at least you will know what you will actually have and not what someone else said you have". Again, I made the mistake of buying the wrong car, for the wrong reasons and choosing the wrong people to work on it. One of the many faults with a KNOT-HEAD such as myself, we hate to admit we are wrong and refuse to just lie there and take a beating. So, I will get up, dust off my cloths, take the WELL DESERVED ass chewing from my wife, the humiliating comments and laughter from my friends, co-workers and family, then proceed to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire, as I usually do....lol!

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks for understanding my situation,
I paid $8.25k the car and so far have put around $20k in additional parts and labor. I currently am into the most recent mechanic shop for around $3k. and all I have is a car with no working engine. I would like to have 400+ HP with the sound of my old 57 Chevy Belair 283 bored to a 292 and 375 Iskey cam, I had back in 1969. I need to verify this with the mechanic shop but I think it may cost as much as $3k to have my original block checked out by a competent machine shop and re-assembled. The problem with that is I will have a 350/300hp engine and after all this crap, I'm not going to be content with that HP. I wasn't happy with the 220hp the L82 had so 300 is not going to be that much of a jump. I liked the sound of the Mother Thumper cam but everyone has said I am sacrificing HP for sound. I would like to find a happy medium. I'm not going to race the car, just drive around town and go to the local car shows. I would like to have something to be proud of not an expensive, old piece of junk. With that being said. I have found a 383/420hp dressed engine at JEGS for $4.5k. I don't know what it will sound like and if it will be too tall for the hood clearance on my car. I don't want to have to purchase and paint a new hood. I can also salvage some of the parts from both my original L82 engine and the embarrassing junk engine I purchased on Craigslist and install them on a crate engine.
1. New 7qt oil pan
2. New D.U.I. Street/Strip distributor
3. New Melling high volume oil pimp
4. New SUM-G350 oil pickup
5. Original Edelbrock high rise intake manifold
6. Original Quadrojet or Edelbrock carburetor

I know if I buy a 383/420hp crate block and put my intake manifold and carburetor on it I will loose HP but don't know much. I also don't know what the crate engine will sound like. I really liked the sound of the Mother Thumper cam. Well, that's about it. I have a rich man's desires, with a poor man's pocket book. Got any ideas!

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks,
I have thought of exactly what you have mentioned in saying take my losses and just look for another car. The problem is, I have too much invested in the car and right now I don't even have an engine in it. I also have two engines that are disassembled and will need to do something with the parts. If I get a good dependable engine with the right HP and sound, I will be happy with the car. I'm looking at about another $6k to accomplish that, over and above what I have already spent. Plus, who's to say, the next Corvette will not have some of the same issues I have already dealt with on this one.
1. New 100% replaced upgrade A/C kit.
2. New sound, heat proofing and carpet. (still have to replace the two inside door panels and seats)
3. New dash.
4. New sound system.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...61e3903eae.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...86da655699.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...89781cbd3c.jpg
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I would suggest to stop thinking so much about the sound,,, The sound is determined more so via the exhaust pips headers and mufflers type of engine, heads, and size.
Yes the Thumper Cam can give a lope... and take away power... don't be a all show and no go Vette... to many ricers like that out there already...
Sounding loud and cool until the ricer wipes your ass... then everyone laughs at the sound...
So you have $5K to spend on an engine?? ok cool.. lets look at $5K and under...

The stuff you have... sale it.

Good Choice
 

Thanks,
Yes, I need to find a happy midway point between sound and power. I already have the loud... I just want to add the lope. I am not planing to race ANYONE. I blew the engine on my first car street racing and have regretted it ever sines. I talked to the mechanic shop earlier today. He agrees, the route I need to take is get the 383/420hp short block and put any salvageable quality parts from the two existing engines and install them in the new 383. I will loose some power with my high rise intake and carburetor but I will also save a good chunk of money.

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks,
That is the first time anyone mentioned a 396. Will all my 350 stuff bolt up to it? I have been told my 700r4 transmission I just bought and had rebuilt is only good for 450hp. I was really looking at staying under $4k now that I will need to pay the shop to transfer my existing parts... but that would be a nice engine to have... Thanks again.

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks for shooting straight,
You brought up a lot of good points. I know, I know, I know....I'm still thinking of the almighty dollar but that $5.5k hurts. I am going to look very close at the 396 and talk to JEGS. I can save some money by reusing some of the quality parts I have, if they will remove those parts from the crate engine and deduct the cost of the part. What about the HP and torque on the 700r4 transmission. I don't want to tear it up...when the "stupid" comes out in me. I'm not planning to race but I am a "KNOT-HEAD" and still act an old fool occasionally!!!!! Sounds like you have a good wife. Don't tell anyone but mine is a "Mississippi Delta Red Neck". She was raised eating potatoes and picking cotton. She looks at things a little differently. Thanks again for bringing up the 396. You sure have got my interest up.

KNOT-HEAD

Youll love the torque of that 396..it will still sound good but shred tires when you want. Looks just like a 350noone would know.
Tq is king on the st! With a 700r thats gonna rock, still plenty driveable.
random one off youtube

Thanks,
Again, your input has been vary helpful. I didn't realize that would kill the warranty. That would have been a BIG mistake to save a couple hundred bucks. I am really leaning to this engine. Plenty of pluses. The only negative can see is the additional $1k but I think this engine would make this a very special car and would be easier to sell if I got in a bind. I run stock tires so the transmission will not be an issue. I have asked my diesel helicopter friend for his input before I take the plunge. He is on traveling today and will respond to my email once he gets a chance. I think he is going to be in favor of this engine also.

KNOT-HEAD

Thanks for the video.
The engine sounds great.

KNOT-HEAD

Almost any small block will fit under the hood. Depends on what you stick on as a intake manifold. I'm surprised you don't have clearance problems with the high rise manifold as it is.
Don't forget that Isky still makes cams. If you had one you liked you can probably get another just like it. Make sure the engine builder, if that is the way you go, understands all your wants.
A shot of nitrous is just a flick of the switch away.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks for the feedback. You are correct. What I have is a close fit under the hood. I also have a 1/2" spacer (forgot the actual name) between the intake and the carburetor. The guy I bought the junk engine from. I was told that was for better oxygenation of the fuel at high rpm's. I'm not interested high rpm's because I don't want to race, I just like to get from "0" to "60" QUICKLY!!!! I really liked the sound of the Isky cam I had back then but that was my first car and ANYTHING would have been great. I don't have the ability to design or build an engine. That is why the responses from the good, knowledgeable people here are very much appreciated. I also have my "diesel helicopter mechanic" buddy to advise me. A couple of guys here had me convened a JEGS 396 would be a great engine for my car and I was sold on it. I wanted my buddies opinion before I pulled the trigger and ordered it. He knows me and my car. Remember I'm a "KNOT-HEAD" and it's hard for someone to change my mind on damn near anything, but he knows me well enough to bring up "my" deficiencies....the ones that get me into trouble...especially with MY WIFE!!!! He brought up some good points. One of which, the 350 and 383 are tried and true engines. There are a lot of them on the road and not many 396"s. Don't know why the 396 is not popular but I have made to many poor judgment calls concerning this car and am trying to cut my losses. I wish I could build an engine....I really do! That is just not going to happen, so the advice from people like you and everyone else taking their valuable time to listen to an old fat man reminisce and ramble on about things he is ignorant about.
My buddy talked me into going back to the original 383 idea. He kept bringing up different cams, heads and so on. The problem is (that one of you good people brought to my attention) if I alter the JEGS crate engine in any way, it would void the warranty. I'm in enough trouble already because I used shade tree mechanics instead of mechanics that will warranty their work. With all that being said, I am now leaning toward a JEGS 383/430HP crate (undressed) engine. It has aluminum heads (with specs I don't understand), roller cam (with specs I don't understand), 30 months or 50k mile warranty for $4+k. I'm a KNOT-HEAD so I'm still looking for something with more horsepower and within the same price range. I have also been looking at Summit.

Thanks again,
KNOT-HEAD

Hmm.... Not to be too blunt here, but seems you are in over your head a long ways with this...

Everyone has to start somewhere, so some points to clear up with this thread...

The 350, 383, 396 and many other variants are all pretty much the same engine, just different crank/bore diameter. The outside of the engine is all the same. There are even some others starting with 265 or something running all the way through 400 and more aftermarket ones that are even larger that are all almost identical with the possible exception of a few accessory bolt hole location changes, all of these will bolt right in.
Jegs does not sell a JEGS brand engine that I can see anyway.
Jegs does have the Blueprint brand of engine that I believe you are referring to.
Blueprint sells engines and from what I have seen and heard is a reputable builder. Their 396 is likely a good option for you as a drop in.
Blueprint engines are not blueprinted engines necessarily. That is the engine builders name, not the method of building.
JEGS, nor anyone is going to sell you a truly blueprinted engine unless you have a builder build if for you specifically.

Hopefully some of his clears up some of your confusion. Just go buy a chevy small block crate engine (350/383/396,etc) and bolt it in, you will be happy. Recommended crate engines that I have heard good reviews from are Chevrolet performance and Blueprint. I am sure there are several others, but you likely can't go wrong with either of these from wherever you buy them from. Both have great warranties and if you pay attention to the specs and get something with your desired HP, you will be happy.

What 73racervette said is spot on.

Since you seem to want a more "hands-off" approach (not neccessarily learning what makes one motor better than another, just want to drop a motor in and not have to mess with it), crate motor is the way to go. The Blueprint 383 is tried and true, been proven many times over and is reliable and makes good power.

As was already mentioned, the different between a 350, 383, 396 etc... is the stroke length. The motor is identical externally, just has a crank with a longer stroke.

What carb do you have on your current motor? When you get the crate motor, the only things you should have to do is set the timing, and retune the carb. If you have a Holley, you can most likely find a local tuning shop to dial in the A/F ratio for you. If you have the Quadrajet, I would reccomend sending it to Lars along with all the info on the motor you are putting it on so he can tune it correctly for you.

You could buy the best crate motor you can afford, but if you have a bad running carb and poorly set timing it will still be slow and unresponsive. Tuning the carb and setting the timing are things you can do fairly easily at home if you are willing to learn and do your research, and it will save you a good amount of money. But otherwise there are pros out there who can do it if you have the cash.

Turn Key Ready!
 

KH: I was in a similar situation.
I had more knowlege than you.
But limited tools and experience.

I bought all my parts about $6K.
And had one shop do all the work.
That way they were responsible for everything.
It was a smart move on my part.
If there is a problem, most shops will blame it on the 'other guy'.

They did all the work and turned down the timing so it would pass smog!
That was long ago.

JMHO

R

remember:

There is no replacement for displacement,, GO 396

While I do agree that a 396 would be even more fun than a 383, in the OP's case it may not be the best fit for his budget. If budget isn't really an issue (it sounds like it is in this case though), definitely go for more displacement. But unless I'm reading it wrong, KNOT-HEAD wants a good reliable motor that can be had affordably and make plenty of power to have fun with. That sounds like the Blueprint 383 to me. 420 hp for under $4k.

I haven't looked into 396s recently, but a few years ago I didn't find a decent crate motor for less than $6k.

KNOT-HEAD, it all depends on what you want and how you plan to drive the car. you want a fun hotrod that can roast the tires and keep up with modern sports cars and will just swap in easily and have a 3 year warranty? Get the Blueprint 383 crate motor, easy choice. You want a real screamer of an engine so you can pull on the new mustangs, camaros, corvettes, etc...? Go big or go home and go for a 396 or a 400 based small block. It will still swap in just fine and make 500+ hp.

The other thing to consider is the rest of the drivetrain. The blueprint 383 is about as much power as you would want with the stock diff, suspension, and tires. In fact, 400 hp can be downright scary if your chassis isn't in great shape. And I personally would put in some solid spicer u joints in the half shafts and driveshaft since you are basically doubling the stock horsepower of the car, that can break things.

Thanks. Blunt is good. I need blunt not sugar coating. Yes, I am way over my head but with all the good advice I have been getting here, I think I'm about to see some light at the end of the tunnel (hope it's not a train). My buddy and you good people keep reminding me "every action has a equal and opposite reaction ". I wanted POWER but if I over power the capability of a 41 year old car I then have to add equal POWER to car to be able to match the engine. I wanted the 396/485hp pretty bad but my buddy bought up a lot of negatives I would have to overcome with the rest of the car, so now I'm looking at the 430hp range and primarily in a 383 engine. I found one on JEGS that both my buddy and myself like. I'm trying to figure out how to attack the website url to this Thread but haven't figured that out yet. Summit has a 383/435hp Stage 1 engine with basically the same internal parts for $400 more. But I don't know the difference between Sage 1 and a stripper on stage...LOL. Thanks for clearing up Blueprint. I did think the engines were balanced and blueprinted.
I had not heard of Blueprint before but that's to be expected because I'm a newbie to all this high tech/high performance mumbo jumbo. I quit looking under the hood in 1971 when I figured out I needed to pull the passenger side front wheel off to change one of the plugs on my, then feaunce's 69 Mock 1 mustang. Then the computer age came out and that just tore my drawers. So now 47+ years later I'm trying it again. If the South Louisiana flood of 2016 would not have robbed my ov my 96 Harley Road King, I wouldn't be making a fool of myself (at least concerning cars) and spending my children's inhaitance on a 77 Corvette.
I have been concentrating on both the Chevrolet performance and Blue-Print cars because of the positive comments made on this site. I've been primarily looking on the JEGS and Summit websites. They seem to be the horse to ride. If I can ever figure out how to watch the engine specs to this Thread I will and get everyone's feedback on it.
Thanks again.
KNOT-HEAD

Thanks,
I would love to build the perfect engine myself but as you and everyone else has noted... I just don't have the know how and ability. I am hoping to one day rebuild the my original L82 engine because it is a serial number match to the car and I think that is important. I'm hoping I can get out from under the junk engine I bought that got me into all this trouble without loosing my pants...I already lost my shirt. So far, I'm leaning toward a Blue-Print or Chevrolet Performance 383/450+/- as recommended by many others on this site. I would love to go with the 396/485hp but just not comfortable with it based on the condition of the car I am putting it in and don't want to spend the money to beef up the car to compensate for the HP. Maybe someday I will. For now, I just want a head turning driver I can be proud of. I have two Edelbrock and the original Quadrojet that came on the L82 engine. I have sent the Quadrojet to two different carb rebuild shops and had four different so called mechanics adjust it on the car and everyone failed. I would appreciate it if you could give me the contact information for Lars and see if they can make it work properly. I have been told, by old school folks the Quadrojet is the best for that engine. Of course everyone has there own opinion. I have purchased all the new up to date test equipment, trying to get the "junk" engine I bought to idle (in and out of gear), run smooth and accelerate well all with the same timing and carb adjustments. I had it pretty good but when I brought it to the current mechanic shop, they found many things the "jack leg" I bought the engine from and had install it really had screwed up badly. Now I am at the point where it is more economical to just walk away from all those issues and start a new with a crate engine. Once the new engine is in and the car is operating as dependable as possible, I will start tinkering with it again. I still remember a little from the "good old days" when I could pull the three speed standard transmission, set it on my chest, wiggle out from under the car, change the disk and pressure plate on my 57 Chevy Belair, under the shade tree, put the transmission back on my chest, wiggle back under the car and stab the pilot shaft back into place, bolt up the transmission, drive shaft, adjust the clutch, single-handedly, crank the engine, light the tires up leaving the driveway and go tare the damn thing up all over again. Sure was a lot of expensive fun, until I blew the engine, couldn't afford to fix or replace it and ended up with a Renault Dalphene... Boy what a transition for an 18 year old kid to have to overcome. Here we are, many years later and jumping back in to the "pit of despair" trying to clay my way out. Anyway, thanks for tuning in hopefully tune in again soon "same time same station".
KNOT-HEAD

Guess you did not see this or read my previous post:

BLUEPRINT 396

https://www.jegs.com/i/Blueprint-Eng...961CT/10002/-1

Blueprint Engines Small Block Chevy 396ci Stroker Base Engine 485HP/500TQ

No I did not, that is a pretty dang good deal for a 396! Thanks for the link. Personally, I think for that money I would be looking into a 400-based small block. But if what I wanted was a warrantied crate motor that I just need to "bolt in" that is hard to beat!

For the more budget oriented, the 383 Blueprint motor is still the better bet in this case since KNOT-HEAD will still be doubling his horsepower and is trying to save some money, and has no plans to be racing it.

I started off with good intentions. I dreamed that my oldest (37 and a muscle car nut) would help me work on the car, because after all it will be his inheritance. Poor judgment because I did not take into consideration he had a job, wife and three young rug rats he MUST cater too before tackling a project car. Next I contacted a very highly thought of Corvette restorer in my area. He put me off for over three months before he would even look at the car. Being the "KNOT-HEAD" that I am. I took my youngest son's (35) advice (that at the time didn't know how to screw in a light bulb without written directions) and used the shade tree mechanic he has been using, that "SAID" he has been working on his father-in-laws vintage Corvette for years. All the rubber gram-its on the suspension were dry rotted, which made it very dangerous to put on the highway. I also asked him to repair the A/C. Well after four months I got tired of the excuses and brought it to someone else. It seems he had successfully repaired the suspension but made a catastrophe of the A/C. I brought it to a highly recommended mechanic shop that already had 3 other vintage Corvettes in the shop and asked them to repair the A/C. The commented the Corvette A/C systems were notorious for not cooling the interior of the car properly and recommend upgrading the complete system with a new electronic operated A/C kit. I purchased the kit ($1.4k). Paid him $3k to remove all the existing A/C unit, duct work, controls and adapt the new system to the car. After 6 months of excuses, I picked it up from them with the console partially out, the A/C control knobs just hanging off the side of the console, the new A/C drivers side duct hanging a few inches over the brake peddle and the damn thing not blowing air out of the proper vents. I then found a neighbor that has been doing mechanic work out of his house for over 17 years and asked him if he would like to take on a project to complete the A/C work and some other, what I thought were minor issues. He took on the project. Made the repairs but used very poor craftsmanship. There were still were issues he and I just couldn't figure out. The horn would not blow, the head lights would go out when the high beams were switched on, the A/C would still not blow out the correct vents (one of the switches connection plug under the console, the first jerk installed, came loose). I next got suckered into purchasing a so called rebuilt beefed up engine from a guy on Craigslist and paid him to install it. Well to be polite, he didn't know his a** from a hole in the ground about installing a engine. After 2 weeks of him trying to get the engine installed and running, I finally ran him off. I worked on it myself and got it to run pretty good but could not get it to idle properly. I could get it timed, adjust the Edelbrock carb while idling but not when I would put it in gear. I gave up and brought it to the shop it is at now. The found a lot of problems with both the engine and the way it was installed. So here we are now. Licking my wounds, asking for advice and doing the best I can with the funds (my wife will let me spend) I have to attempt to make a "silk purse out of a sow's ear".
Please forgive me, I know I have told this same crybaby, tear jerking, embarrassing story a few times on this Thread before, but in some SICK WAY, it seems to make feel better when others, such as yourself can relate and hopefully gain at least some self-a-steam from reading my pitiful story.
Thanks again,
KNOT-HEAD

Man if you want the 485hp then go get it now, youll wish you did later on.
Not like youre full throttle or doing clutch dumps everywhere. Put some decent Ujoints in and drive it, wouldnt worry about breaking anything unless it happened.
May as well do it once the first time, never $ or time to do it again.
400chp isnt as much as it sounds like.

Most those #s come from a dyno cell sometimes tricks are pulled to get that #
By the time you put street exhaust on, accessories, breathing hot air it can net you plenty less.
Dont let your friend or anyone else talk you out of something that makes YOU happy. He has his hobbies, she can get a new purse lol. Nothing "sensible" about this hobby, is about that WOT grin and firing it up early on a Sun morning hearing it.

Morbid,
Thanks for the post. You hit the nail on the head. I have a rich man's dream, with a poor man's pocket book. I would love to drive a car that would lift the front wheels on demand but I just don't have the know how or the cash to pay someone else to build it. It would he great if I did. MAYBE SOMEDAY! For now, you are correct. I just want a head turner I can be proud of like my "drowned" 96 Road King was. I should have stuck with the beefed up bikes (a lot less money and acceleration that would make your eyes water, plus pull the front wheel in third gear) but I just felt God was telling me to change my stupid ways before I get my wife (who always road with me) and myself "tit's up and buried", so I elected to go with 4 wheels, and an enclosure to ride in.

Pauldana,
I looked at the 936 you recommended and was on the edge about to jump in the pool when my diesel helicopter mechanic talked me out of it last night. It was just not right for me at this time, mainly because of all the screw ups I have made concerning this car since I have owned it for the last two years. I sure had my heart set on it but a much smarter man talked me out of it.
Thanks for both of you for the input. Please keep it up. I need all the help I can get.
KNOT-HEAD

Another possible option http://www.high-performance-engines....p-p/hp101c.htm

Sounds like a thumpr cam

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^

And what were his concerns???? A 396 is just as reliable as a 383, a 350 a 400 a 427 and so on...
I honestly have my doubts about your friend... if he thinks a 396 is odd and in some way less reliable than a 383, then I would state, he does not know as much as he proclaims..
Different stroke on the crank... that is it... I run a 650hp 427... no problems... and i beat the shit out of it.

Let us hope not,,, lol

Looks like a lunati cam with 1.6 rockers. Also using 195 pro-filer heads.

Thanks for the reply. Yea... I'm kinda between a rock and a hard spot. Within a couple years of retirement and trying to substitute my drowned 96 Road King with a 77 Corvette has been a challenge to say the least. Expensive learning opportunity!!!!!!! I really had my heart set on the 396/485hp engine....until I told my wife the cost. I had already prepared her for the $4k+ cost of a 383/430hp engine (that she didn't take well). I was really hoping when I told her I had finally found an engine, she would not have asked me how much it cost. I should have known better. When she asked why the price jumped up an additional $1.5k ..... I panicked AND TOLD THE TRUTH, that it was for the additional HP. Boy, did that stir up a monster! She said "THAT'S JUST FOR RACING!". After regaining my composure... I answered (in a pitiful, wimpy voice)..."no, I just want to finally quit thinking about the cost and have a car that is really special.

Well (with a look that could kill) she turned away and didn't acknowledge my existence for around two hours, but had come to the conclusion... I was going to get the 396. I had told her (as a means of escape from total HELL) I was not going to just jump into this purchase without running it buy our friend and resident expert on engine performance...the diesel helicopter mechanic...so I did. As my quivering fingers attempted to text our friend...the room was silent with the exception of the faint sound of the TV in the background (that I dare not attempt to change the channel on). After about an hour of frantic texting between our friend and myself, I finally gave in to his argument that, basically the 350 and 383 have been tried and true engines for many years and there are a lot of them on the road, which makes professional knowledge and parts very easy to come by. I accused him of consorting with my wife, prior to my contacting him on this issue. HE DID NOT ANSWER?????? Anyway, if it was a plot against me or not... I took the weeny way out and agreed to spend some more time researching a value rated large variety of 383/HP (+/-) engines on both JEGS and Summit, which I did. As of now is a toss between a "ATK High Performance GM 383 Stroker 435HP Stage 1 Crate Engine HP36 at $4.42k or a BluePrint SBC 383 C.I.430HP Base Crate Engine (Aluminum Engine, Hydraulic roller tappet cam, Dart SHP Aluminum Heads 72cc/180cc 2.02/1.60 valves)" and a " BluePrint GM 383 C.T.D. 430HP Stroker Base Crate Engine (Aluminum engine, Hydraulic roller tappet cam Lift: .528" intake/.536" exhaust Duration:@ .050" Lift: 221 Intake /226 exhaust Lobe separation : 110, Aluminum Heads 195cc intake/75cc exhaust 202/1.60 valves,)
I have a couple things in red that I don't know the meaning of. If anyone will clue me in on the meanings, I would surly appreciate. If someone can let me know about the specs on the heads and cams, that would be very helpful. The junk engine I "stupidly" purchased has a Mother Thumper cam in it. I know all the negatives about that cam but I really liked the lope it has. I don't know if the cams in either of these two engines will have a "similar" lope of not. If anyone can shed a little light on that subject, that would be a BIG help.
Thanks to all of you!
KNOT-HEAD

Ok so straight up, not trying to be mean or anything, your friend doesn't know nearly as much about engines as you think. a 396, a 350, a 383 are all THE SAME ENGINE. They are all tried and true 350 small block motors. What makes the difference? A 350 engine has a 4" bore and 3.48" stroke. A 383 engine has a 3.750" stroke. A 396 has a 3.875" stroke. A 3350,383, or 396 are ALL tried and true engines and anyone who knows how to work on a small block chevy could work on all of them EQUALLY because they are the same besides the crankshaft stroke length.

So saying that you should get a 350 or 383 over a 396 soley based on the fact that he has heard of more of them on the road shows a complete lack of understanding of the fundamentals of the engine.

In your case, I think the 383 is the better option because you are budget limited and frankly I think a 420 hp 383 is going to be plenty for you considering you haven't upgraded the rest of the chassis. But there is ZERO difference in reliability or parts availability between a 350, 383, or 396.

First of all... I laughed my ass off on you story!!!! :lolg::rofl::lolg: mostly due to the fact that I have "Been there done that!!" lol:-) Another Russian saying from my wife "The man may be the head, but the woman is the neck, and where the neck turns the head goes:-)" lol.... All I can say is think long term as much as possible... are you going to own this car till your dyeing days? and then will it always be somethings as like... I wish, or what if, or,,,you got the idea,,,, divide 1000$ over 10 years, what did it cost? jmho, I have done way to many things twice, even 3 times due to not waiting and doing right the first time...

Again... to my other point on the 396... mobbed below is echoing my thoughts...
I am sure your friend is smart... but being smart and being an expert on SBC, do not necessarily go hand in hand,,, in this case he could not be more wrong... read below....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



If your wife kills it due to budget, so be it.... but do not kill it due to the hellacopter pilot.... I'm a pilot as well, means nothing to SBC engines.. But my boys and I DO race and build race cars, we have 6 corvettes we race, and also do the Baja 500 and 1000.. We build our own engines, rear ends, and design and build our own suspensions for our rock crawlers, we even have our own in ground Dyno.... We do compleat fabrication..

if you can do the 396 without a divorce or moving to the garage to sleep, do it... you will NEVER regret it. but it is not worth loosing your wife.... most of the time:-)



My wife and I are having a go at the new Fort GT I am getting... I have a vision of 250mph NA 427.... I gave her the budget and she shit... lol....
So, she knows it goes to Alex, our son, and my youngest son, when I pass or get to old to drive...so this helped, and I gave her a 3 year build timeline so it won't all hit at the same time..
Then I said ok, we can go to Australia this Christmas...now she's quite about it,,, not super happy,,, but stopped bitching,, :-) lol

Not to derail this thread, but how much hp are you guessing you will need out of that N/A 427 to go 250 mph? That would be a pretty impressive motor!

The car will come in at around 2400 lbs, the Aerodynamics on the car are very very good. I believe I can squeeze a good healthy 700hp from the engine and 650+ tq. hooked up to a good 5 speed... 225mph is easy, every mph over that will difficult..
Some on the forum (GT) believe I will hit 240.. but not 250... time will tell.. budget for the engine will be around 15-20K$ That way the bottom end will be capable to around 1000-1500hp if I need NOS.
Babys engine is a 427 and I get 525 RWHP, she weighs in at 3000 lbs now... speedometer is not working, but i can easily pull 5500+rpm in 5th gear, this is around 200mph in the C3. TKO 600 with the tall overdrive gear. 3:70 i think rear end?? forget the exact gear ratio.

Thanks,
You nailed it. That was my thoughts exactly but I wimped out a the last minuet. Try to understand, my wife has been my best friend for over 40+ years. She has just had neck surgery and has been off work for one month and has two more month to go. Once she is released from this doctor she will have knee and possibly hip surgery. I have so far pissed away over $20+k on this originally $8.25k+$1.7k tax = around $30k and it doesn't have an engine in it (two engines are sitting on the floor of the mechanic shop). As of now I am into the mechanic shop for around $3k+ another $3k to install the new engine and transfer some of the usable parts from the "junk" engine and my original L82 . That makes the grand total to date at about $36k. Now I need to chose between a 383/430HP engine at $4+k or a 396/485HP for $5.55k. All toll this car is going to cost me from $41+k to $57k, depending on what engine I decide to put in it. Lets be honest...at best it's going to be valued at $30+k. That's an $11+k to $27+k loss and to date, I have personally put less than 1,000 miles on the damn thing. So is it worth it for me to pay another $1.5k for an additional 55HP?????? I would love to have the extra HP but honestly, I will NEVER put my foot in it enough to enjoy the real thrill of 485HP. I would love too but JUST TOO DAMN OLD. That's why I decided go from two (VERY THRILLING) wheels to a safer and MUCH LESS THRILLING four wheel joy ride.

I know most men will say I am a "p***y" and am "p***y whipped" but please don't judge a 67 year old HARD-HEAD too harshly until you have "walked a mile in his moccasins"! I was willing to take bets I would never live to see 30 years old. Lucky I married my best friend at 29. She actually cried on my 30th birthday because, she didn't think I would make it either. So I guess I AM a "p***y and am also "p***y whipped" but not many men can TRUTHFULLY say they have done 1/3 of the stupid crap I have done for THRILLS sake and by the grace of God (and my wife) still be able to drive a 77 Corvette. Even though it only has 430HP....LOL! So you bet I would love to have something that would pull the front wheels off the line like my bike used to do but that's all behind me. I guess I just need to be content with being a grandpa and still married to my best friend.
Thanks again.
KNOT-HEAD

Thanks, too both of you. Honestly the decision was because of the worried look on my (best friend's) wife's face. At our age and her (and who knows possibly my) physical condition, we are concerned about money. There is one thing I have always said "I don't want to out live my money". Don't get me wrong, we are not poor (YET) by a long shot. I typed a long life history narrative on one of my last reply's and I don't have the stamina to repeat the process. Please read some of my other reply's and hopefully that will help you both to agree with my (maybe not final) decisions. I still have it in the back of my mind about the damn 396...that would sure be a show stopper. I just don't know if it is worth the strain it would put on "my best friend" or not...most probably NOT!
Thanks again,
KNOT-HEAD

Thanks, but we are back in that additional $1.57+k for an additional 30HP. Plus I have my D.U.I Street/Strip distributor, two Edelbrock and one Quadrojet carburetors and Edelbrock high rise manifold I plan on salvaging from my other two engines. Thanks for all your efforts.
KNOT-HEAD

Your not pussy whipped ... you have a partner in life, and are lucky enough to both love and respect each other... A good wife is also your best friend and partner... Hats off brother...

That being said.... Stop everything you are doing, you are pissing good money after bad... you can have a crate motor installed in your car for $1000 in labor.. not 5,000.... I believe you may be being ripped off by everyone around you.. at least it sounds so...
it should be like this $5,000 new engine, it arrives!!! woo-hoo!!! $1000 for put it in...WooHoo!!! your on the street... much more than that your getting screwed.
and as far as $$$$$ put into these cars, you will NEVER get it back... this is a labor of love... I have well over $80,000 in parts in my car, not including the car... I beat up on C7z's... I smoked a 2016? Viper 2 days ago... These cars can be made to race... or play:-=)

Thanks. I'm sorry but I have lost track of all the reply's and GREAT advice. What sounds like a Thumper cam?

KNOT-HEAD

And it is NOT just the HP... it is the TQ!!!!!!!

I do know where you are coming from.... but you will always wish, afterwords... the 396:-)

I did,,, I went 350, twice..... then 383..... was going to do a 396 but just went all in on the 427....

Thanks for the reply. He is not a know it all, he is just a friend I have asked many questions concerning engines. His reply was he doesn't know much about a 396 but he does about 350's and 383's. He knows me and the predicaments I have gotten myself into in the last 15+ years sense we have known each other. He is just looking out for my wife and myself's best interest and I truly respect his judgment over my impulsiveness.
KNOT-HEAD

Hey I'm not judging you for respecting your wife on this man! Fully understand that position. It's definitely a balance in life. My wife is VERY understanding and likes cars and bikes which makes it easier, and I am very frugal when working on my car (do all the work myself, buy used parts and tools, etc...) which makes her alot happier to give me the greenlight when I DO want or need to spend money on the Vette.

I gotta ask, where are those numbers coming from? You said you already pissed away $20k? I thought you just bought a cheap craigslist motor and had a couple shops check it out and install it. I might have missed part of the story, sorry if so.

If you are getting the crate motor, I would reccomend just selling the L82 and the craigslist motor to help recoup some cost. You won't get a ton for them, but I would think you could get a grand out of both of them combined. People talk about keeping the "numbers matching" motor, but you have a 77, so the original motor doesn't really add much to value unless you have a low mile immacualte condition car. Unfortunately, the cars after 73 just don't have much collector value.

Also are you saying the shop is charging you $3k just to INSTALL the motor? That is outrageous if you ask me. They are swapping a SBC for a SBC. It doesn't get much simpler in terms of switching engines.

So just to be straight with you, a rubber bumper vette in EXCELLENT condition with low miles is worth about $10-15k, depending on year and options and such. And that would be a car with interior in great shape, great paint, bushings replaced, wear parts changed, no rust, etc... more realistically, good running rubber bumper cars tend to be more like $5-10k depending on the vehicle. I don't say that to dissapoint you, but more to free you. I have a 1979. I have no delusions that I will sell my car for even a reasonable percentage of what I have in it. This frees me to just enjoy the car and not worry about the value.

So just drop that 383 crate motor in it, sell the old motors and be done with it. Assuming the REST of the car is great shape. If the rest of the car still needs alot of work (bad interior, paint, rust, suspension, ettc...) well then I would probably cut my losses. I bought my car cheap knowing I would need to do work, boy do the little things add up! I have about $1,000 into suspension, $1,500 in wheels and tires, $1,500 into wear items (trailing arms, brakes, bushings, alternator, etc...). If the rest of the car is good and it just needs a motor, then get that thing in there.

Com on man!!!! Gime-a-break! I really liked the sound of the Mother Thumper cam, especially when I opened the electric cutouts while waiting in line at the drive up window at out local Burger King. Thought it was going to rattle the windows in the place loose......
KNOT-HEAD

Yea... like all the ricers with the fart can mufflers on them... sound loud, but go nowhere/// all show no go... I am sure some will disagree with me, but thumper cams are nothing but a way of spending money on cars that go no where fast but to the next car show, and no where else...

Its just me,,,, but I can not stand posers....

like the guy who has stock heads on a 76 something adds a supercharger and nothing else and calms 900hp... i just look at them, smile,,, and say Riiiiight... and keep walking.

The engine I linked to has the lope you are looking for due the the tight lsa(108). The Thumpr line of cams are designed for the sound only
and are easily outperformed. You could ask about a long block to save money and use your existing parts but you will have to do the work
or have someone you trust do it and most likely give up some of the warranty. I agree with Paul, if you are not up to doing the work yourself
the complete engine is a safer bet. I understand the budget and wife concerns so do what is best for your situation.
Good luck with your decision.

Thanks. I love being a thrill seeker but those days should be left to just GREAT memories. I put my wife through a lot of hell, worry and pissed away money in the last 40+ years. Stupid thing is....I'M STILL DOING IT. Please understand, I just through together a few quick round about numbers concerning the car. I am into it for at lease $25-$30k right now but only because I paid people to do re-work on what other people did while working on the car.... Totally my fault for being impatient and picking the wrong people, strictly on impulse. I owe the current mechanic shop about $2.9k for work they have already completed which includes trouble shooting the "junk" engine I was stupid enough to buy off of Craigslist and paid the previous owner and partial builder of the engine to install. This guy really trashed this engine while he was installing it.
1. Stripped off one of the water pump mounting threads in the block.
2. Stripped off one of the intake manifold mounting threads in the block.
3. Bolted the starter on with one starter bolt and one grade bolt that was not only too short but allowed the starter to shift sideways in the mounting holes.
4. Installed his distributor. The vacuum advance did not work.
5. Apparently allowed metal shavings get into the one of the cylinders when he installed the heads.
6. Stripped off the threads of some of the rocker arm mounting bolts in the heads, he supposedly had a machine shop rework.
7, He recommended I replace the stock fuel pump I had on my L82 engine that we were going to use on his engine with a high volume fuel pump. He broke the metal fuel line coming from the tank when he tried to connect it to the new fuel pump. He cranked the engine and couldn't understand why the car fuel gauge was close to empty, when I had just filled it up before he began working on it. My wife saw the gas running out from under the engine after I ran him off and began to work on it myself.
8. I had two (1 mine and 1 his) Edelbrock carburetors and my original Quadrojet carburetors rebuilt while he was installing the engine. He could not and I found out later, did not know how to adjust them. I't didn't help, that it was sucking air between the carb and manifold because he stripped of the threads in the block and has the stud just sitting in the hole. I found this problem by spraying carp cleaner around the engine looking for vacuum leaks.
9. He didn't tighten the fan clutch.
10. He didn't tighten one of the spark plugs.
11. He didn't refill the transmission completely full after installing the new 2400 stall converter.

Everything with the exception of the striped of threads in the in the intake manifold mounting hole, the wrong bolt in the starter and the broken metal fuel line was found by the mechanics at the shop working on it now. I also found a used 700r4 transmission and had them bring it to a reputable transmission shop to have rebuilt. I still owe them for the rebuild, purchasing and installing a Monster four speed auto conversion kit. Trouble shooting and repairing my horn. Troubleshooting and repairing the problem with my head lights going off when the high beams were switched on. Trouble shooting and repairing the new A/C kit that I has previously paid $3k for another shop to install (I purchased the kit). They went around the complete engine and transmission and varied all the bolts were torqued. Removing the "junk" engine and replacing it with the one I finally select. So all in all, they fixed a lot of crap others had done. As you know it takes a lot of time to go behind someone else work and figure out what they screwed up.
KNOT-HEAD

Thanks. I know I will most probably regret it because I had been looking at 454 Corvettes before I settled for the L82. At the time, I thought they were too expensive but I could have bought one and had another for spare parts for what I have spent on this one. Live and learn. Honestly I am still thinking about the 396 but just don't want to worry the wife about spending the extra money, especially since she threatened to set fire to the car WITH ME IN IT!!!!! I'm going to keep a low profile for a few more days. Hopefully she will be more recovered and in less pain from the resent neck surgery she has just had.
KNOT-HEAD

lol... I get it... :-)


its easier to ask for forgiveness then permission... :-) just saying:-)

396! :-)

Thanks, morbid. Please read recent reply I sent to pauldana. I explained more in detail the some of the issues and waist of money on the car in the last two years of ownership. If you will look back on some of the other reply's you can see the other work I have had done to the interior, sound system and suspension. I even changed the rear leaf springs because the rear of the car was sitting too low. My wife has been VERY UNDERSTANDING AND FORGIVING in the last 40+ years. At this time it's a combination of things that make this hopeful last confrontation over the car a bit.....how can I say TESTY! As you know, I have made many costly poor judgment calls in hope of having a nice, head turning rider. She was 100% in favor of getting this car. This is the one she picked out. I wanted the one I test drove the same day that already had the beefed up engine and four speed manual transmission. She liked it because it was pretty.

She only requires two options in a car other than it be dependable (which to date, this one has not. Something went wrong every time we took it out) and that is a good A/C and sound system. I had a suspension upgrade kit installed first because the car was all over the road every time I would drive it. I also had the same guy attempt to repair the A/C...big mistake. He replaced the compressor and did not flush the system before replacing the Freon. That caused metal fragments to run completely through the system. After four months of listening to his excuses I picked it up and brought it to another shop to repair what he had screwed up. When I brought it to the next shop, they said the Corvette A/C systems were notorious for not adequately cooling the car. When one of the two things a woman requires in a car in South Louisiana is an A/C, you don't cut corners on it. I purchased a complete electronic upgrade kit and had the shop install it. After 6 months of excuses I picked it up and paid someone else to finish installing it but that person had problems with it also. I had to get the shop that has it now trouble shoot and repair what the other three mechanics screwed up.

Well on top of the costly mistakes I have made and still don't have a car to drive, she is just getting over neck surgery she had last month. She has been in a neck brace for a month and has two more to go. After the doctor releases her, she plans to have knee and possibly hip surgery. One of the worst things about this surgery ordeal is, the surgeon would not touch her until she had quit smoking completely for at least 6 weeks. Her mother had died when she was about 10 years old and had been on depression and pain medicine well before I met her. The doctor insisted on taking her off of all mood altering drugs as well. On top of that, she is borderline anemic. When she was first pregnant with our first son, at times she would get week and pass out because of the anemia. I was managing a night club at the time and had her keep the books and take up admission at the door. I started her drinking red wine to help with the anemia....it worked great but over the next 40 years, she had become as dependent on the wine as she did the cigarettes, depression and pain medication. WELL GUESS WHAT! The doctor also insisted she stop all forms of alcohol to aid in the recovery process. It took me over 1 year to finally manage to get her smoke, alcohol and drug free, but thank God she did it and the doctor completed a successful neck operation. Thank God, she is still smoke free. Her new psychiatrist has put her back on the depression medicine. The surgeon has put her back on the pain medicine and I recommended she start drinking (a small amount) red wine again.

Needless to say, I tell everyone we were best friends and lovers for the last 39.5 years. We hardly ever had a disagreement and when we did it was quickly resolved. As Paul Harvey used to say at the beginning of his radio broadcast, "and now for the rest of the story". With the combination of not being able to smoke, can't drive, the pain from the surgery, wearing a neck brace for a month with the threat of wearing it another two months, plus the fact that Prudential Insurance she has through work has continually made excuses as to not pay her short or long term disability payments, I think it is kind of understandable she had a negative reaction to me spending what is in her eyes an unnecessary additional $4 to $6k on a car she can't even ride in. Well that's pretty much the complete heartbreaking story. If it were not for the previous poor and costly judgment calls I have made concerning the car plus the additional stress of going through coping with withdrawal symptoms and recovery from surgery, she would have just said "Go for it big boy" and we would not have been having all these crybaby threads for the last few days.

KNOT-HEAD

55hp for 1500 is a steal!! Some guys spend that on a catback or a set of headers that give them 10 or 15.
"Its a 350, sweetie I listened". Your call I suppose.
Not poo pooing those cams really, it just seems counterproductive to get one that may make power but is blowing it out the tailpipe w/manners that suffer when the right one will still sound great & do it all better!
Guess the marketing trend today are catchy names.

Thanks pauldana, As by your definition, I guess I am a so called poser. I really refuse to race anyone anymore. It this age I have absolutely NOTHING to prove too ANYONE but myself and my wife and her only because I have put her through so much hell during the last 40+ years, she deserves all the joy and respect I can attempt to give her. I spent my child hood, like YOU wanting to show my ass for anyone and everyone that would be willing to waste their time watching me burn my tires and tear up my car in a futile attempt to better the next guy only to have someone with a bigger and badder engine (primarily because his daddy gave him the money) make me eat his dust and suffer the the laughter and humility from my "so called" friends. I honestly pray I have grown up sense blowing the engine on my first pride and joy. I regret it to this day. If I still had my 57 Belair, I would not be dumping good money after bad on this money pit. Sorry, I want a car that looks, runs and sound good (to MY ears not yours). I could care less if anyone else but my wife and myself enjoy the sound of the car while we idling through Burger King, then driving maybe 8 mph over the posted speed limit on our way to one of the local car shows, where we can look at some nice cars, talk to some like minded people, spend some money at a charitable benefit, dance to some old time music...maybe even some country... and have a couple alcoholic beverages, then hopefully enjoy the end of a great day by taking a leisurely cruse home in our old pretty, slow, loud 77 Corvette that looks and SOUNDS great "TO US".

HAVE A BLESSED DAY!
KNOT-HEAD