Can not figure this out?
I will try to explain whats happening the best i can..04z headers,cai,tune. as fas as i can remember this has been happen for awhile..not my dd..if i drive normal around town.. the rpms where i notice this is idle to 3000rpm this is when i get on it. Then when i hit the gas i have to push gas pedal down more and it feels sluggish no get up and go..now if i drive around in 3rd gear almost trying to raise engine temp or oil temp. If i hit the gas agian i can feel it in the gas pedal.. the car as soon as i hit the gas it takes off launches feels great. I checked to make sure my o2's are working all is gd. stumped! No codes..i have a tech2.. feels like its going in and out of closed loop is the best way to describe it..but scanner shows closed and switching normal..
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So you’re saying anywhere between 0-3000 rpm if you “get on it” its bogging down ??...if in 3rd and you do it it’s fine ??...where are your long term fuel trims sitting right now...just want to know if it’s been lean ??...does your Tech 2 show show MAF grams/second or voltage...look at that at idle and under load !!...my 01 is around 7 grams/sec at idle...should go up to around 190 grams/sec at WOT !!...both upstream O2’s should go RICH under acceleration !! Rob One Test Is Worth 1,000 “Expert” Opinions” |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598034776)
So you’re saying anywhere between 0-3000 rpm if you “get on it” its bogging down ??...if in 3rd and you do it it’s fine ??...where are your long term fuel trims sitting right now...just want to know if it’s been lean ??...does your Tech 2 show show MAF grams/second or voltage...look at that at idle and under load !!...my 01 is around 7 grams/sec at idle...should go up to around 190 grams/sec at WOT !!...both upstream O2’s should go RICH under acceleration !! Rob One Test Is Worth 1,000 “Expert” Opinions” |
Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598037054)
basically if i drive lug it around town, i think the o2 sensors are not hot enough. when i lay into it its lazy..like in and out of closed loop..when i drive it aggressively it runs great! Seems like o2s are working.
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Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598037054)
basically if i drive lug it around town, i think the o2 sensors are not hot enough. when i lay into it its lazy..like in and out of closed loop..when i drive it aggressively it runs great! Seems like o2s are working.
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Sounds like a cracked spark plug
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Originally Posted by KOZ
(Post 1598037634)
Sounds like a cracked spark plug
With that Tech 2 OP just has to get some data together !! |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598037731)
He probably should have gotten a misfire DTC...either P0300 or cylinder specific...without some testing you just don’t know !! :)). With that Tech 2 OP just has to get some data together !! |
Manual transmission or automatic?
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Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598039088)
ehen my passenger side o2 went i had no check engine light..it was flatlined at 450. I did have my scanner on the car o2's were switching..going to check it again.
Hi !!...yes, the O2 signal has a "bias voltage" of 450 mv it puts out and when the sensor is cold you can see this bias voltage if you look at O2 millivolts...all the GM's I've seen have it !!...the bias voltage lets the PCM detect either shorts or opens in the circuit...if it sees one it sets a DTC !!….if it was flat lined at 450mv you most likely have an open in the signal wire on the O2 harness side...say the O2 voltage was stuck high or low...if you unplug the O2 and it went back to 450Mv you have an issue on the O2 end !! |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598039201)
Hi !!...yes, the O2 signal has a "bias voltage" of 450 mv it puts out and when the sensor is cold you can see this bias voltage if you look at O2 millivolts...all the GM's I've seen have it !!...the bias voltage lets the PCM detect either shorts or opens in the circuit...if it sees one it sets a DTC !!….if it was flat lined at 450mv you most likely have an open in the signal wire on the O2 harness side...say the O2 voltage was stuck high or low...if you unplug the O2 and it went back to 450Mv you have an issue on the O2 end !!
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598037538)
They are hot enough !!!...You'll have issues if the O2 heater circuit is inoperative after startup...you'll be in open loop then and stay there and a DTC will set...when the O2 sensors are warmed up you'll start to see the fuel trim numbers starting to move either positive or negative...your are now in closed loop...check that with your Tech 2...during idle operation the upstream O2 sensors will be switching between 200-800 millivolts or so...the down streams will be kind of steady somewhere around 450 millivolts....just remember....LEAN IS LOW (below 450 mv) and RICH IS HIGH (above 450mv)....if O2 around 200 it's lean...if 800 it's reporting rich !! |
Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598039636)
its a manual..can the fly by wire have something to do with this? I can check throttle angle and see if its opening..
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598039808)
Yes, the drive by wire can be a cause but without testing you are just GUESSING !!...you have to look at TPS and APP sensor voltages...you can show the voltages TPS 1 and TPS 2 voltages in a "graph form" on your Tech 2... I don't use one but that's how you would check...now what you see on the Tech 2 or any scan tool is "processed data"...not truly LIVE as some might say...using an oscilloscope is true live data !!...this is a video of my "01 doing a TPS sweep with my scope...if you see an irregularity in the signal as you push the throttle down or back up you have a wonky sensor or possibly a wiring issue !!...did you try disconnecting the MAF and see if it hesitates ??...if you don't know how to interpret data on the Tech 2 it's basically just an expensive code reader !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a00TKvi9cWY |
Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598039958)
I will check this out..i do feel this in my gas pedal..when it runs strong the gas pedal is sensitive and very responsive and it takes off..when its lagging i push down on the gas and the car is flat almost like the blade is not opening.. i had this same exact problem on my 04 cobra and the gas pedal was alittle bent not pushing down anymore..
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598040335)
Yes, the "blade" and it's movement is all tied in to the TAC module, TAC motor, TPS and APP sensors ….check it out with Tech 2 !!!...you just have to get into the right diagnostic "funnel"....Fuel, MAF, TPS/APP or something else...good luck my friend !!
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Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598040510)
thanks i hope i find the problem! I am going to purchase hp tuners also.
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598040707)
You should have EVERY Data PID and more you need with the Tech 2 !!
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Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598043101)
with the key on engine off the maf should read 0 voltage?
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598043331)
Just looked at my Autel...it doesn’t read MAF voltage..just airflow...ask a forum member who might have one...I think my man Froggy just bought one...I can tell you how to check it...with MAF unplugged you should have your 5 volt ref. on the yellow wire, 12 volt on the pink and ground on the black/white which is a body ground...G106 !! |
Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598043364)
should i be able to do this thru the dcanner?
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598043397)
NO !!!....you need a multi meter !!...you have one ?? |
Ok, you’re GOLDEN then !!...like I said you can find out if any member has a Tech 2 if you want to know if it should read 0...you have a VERY powerful diagnostic tool in your hands...you just have to know how to interpret what your looking at !!...there are some excellent YouTube videos on diagnostics where you can REALLY learn...IF...you have the desire !!...Paul Danner...AKA “Scanner Danner” in my opinion is the best out there hands down...I have been following him for years and if I have a question he always has time to reply !! |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598043397)
NO !!!....you need a multi meter !!...you have one ?? |
Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598043630)
yes i do.. and thanks for all the help!
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598043674)
I’m reading 5 volt ref. KOEO with connector plugged in...that’s “probably” what your scan tool is probably reading...you might be missing your 5 volt ref. if you said it reads 0 !!...the 5 volt ref. is shared between other sensors...another sensor MAY be dragging it down !!...if you get to this point and may need help let me know !! |
Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598043825)
on the scanner i get 4.95 volts key on motor off..
PERFECT !!...that’s your 5 volt reference !! |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598043870)
PERFECT !!...that’s your 5 volt reference !! |
Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598043878)
ok cool..i will do more testing over the weekend when i can drive it..
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Originally Posted by 04zjimc
(Post 1598043878)
ok cool..i will do more testing over the weekend when i can drive it..kinda wish there were codes lol.. still cant understand why power comes and goes based on temp? Thats why i was leaning towards o2 sensors..not get hot enough..
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Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598054665)
I know you said you were going to do more testing this weekend...if you want to make the trip to Jersey on Monday ( I'm off) I'd more more than happy to diagnose your ailing car !!...don't know what part of the Island you're from ???
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Hi !!...usually O2 sensors that are usually starting to get “lazy” are starting to go bad...did you use an aftermarket sensors on the ones currently installed or OEM ??...and when going bad they will indicate lean...what do your long and short term fuel trims look like ??...as far as the hesitation I don’t know if I mentioned it but disconnect your MAF sensor and see what happens when you drive it...it will throw a DTC so don’t worry...also, do you know how to graph your TPS 1 and 2 voltages with the Tech 2 ??...with the key on engine off slowly push the accelerator down and release and look at the TPS signals...they should not have and drop outs or spikes in the signal...you can try this for now !!...good luck !! |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598077647)
Hi !!...usually O2 sensors that are usually starting to get “lazy” are starting to go bad...did you use an aftermarket sensors on the ones currently installed or OEM ??...and when going bad they will indicate lean...what do your long and short term fuel trims look like ??...as far as the hesitation I don’t know if I mentioned it but disconnect your MAF sensor and see what happens when you drive it...it will throw a DTC so don’t worry...also, do you know how to graph your TPS 1 and 2 voltages with the Tech 2 ??...with the key on engine off slowly push the accelerator down and release and look at the TPS signals...they should not have and drop outs or spikes in the signal...you can try this for now !!...good luck !! |
Another question before you change the O2...have you ever cleaned your MAF sensor ??...I think you said you had a Tech 2...did you look at MAF airflow or frequency at idle and WOT...I prefer looking at frequency...can you try that ?? |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598079918)
Another question before you change the O2...have you ever cleaned your MAF sensor ??...I think you said you had a Tech 2...did you look at MAF airflow or frequency at idle and WOT...I prefer looking at frequency...can you try that ?? https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...f754ab72d0.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...e04cc638a3.jpg |
Looked at the top snapshot and it looks like the O2 is fixed rich...is the downstream O2 rich ??...normally you would see the short term and long terms fuel trims go negative in this case..,what did the downstream O2 look like ??... Other snapshots O2 looks strange also !!...did you ever look at the TPS voltages with the Tech 2 ?? |
Originally Posted by rwobs777
(Post 1598085383)
Looked at the top snapshot and it looks like the O2 is fixed rich...normally you would see the short term and long terms fuel trims go negative in this case..,what did the downstream O2 look like ??... Other snapshots O2 looks strange also !!...did you ever look at the TPS voltages with the Tech 2 ?? |
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