Would you buy this Z06 lemon? [*UPDATE 1/11/19*]
 

If you really want it I would make a $50k offer with a 10 year 100k warentee, and then get up and walk if they said no.

The car is already 5 years old . (so to speak)

Anything you save will cost you when you go to trade or sell it, and it may have way more problems than they are disclosing. GM does not buy back vehicles for something as minor as a leaking transmission.

:iagree: This car seems to have spent most of its life being serviced; transmission, differential, brakes, fluid changes, etc. Have to suspect it made have been ridden pretty hard but, either way, there are plenty of other cars like this or close to it without the risk involved Unless you're really limited on funds, find a well-known quality new Vette dealer and see what you can find in their used inventory.

I'm crazy because the age doesn't bother me per se.

If one is in the position of knowing you're going to keep the Z and not trade/sell it (like I was two month ago), then I'd make a bid like it was a salvage refurbish:
Up to 50% of msrp and a new manufacturers warranty (ie, 3Y etc) ... no one is going to give a 100K 10Y on this thing, so basically you'd be saying NFW.

What bothers me is you had to find out it was a lemon law. That said it is worth about ten grand less than a whole one. What is the warranty situation? Some banks won't finance it. The longer you keep it the 10k difference shrinks.

Typically there is a document stating the reason(s) for the buyback. They should share that with you. I was involved with many of these with another manufacturer. They were transparent and extended the warranty 2 years also. If they are hiding facts I would run away.

At the very least get them to show you the work order for "replaced entire transmission system"

Unless you can get it for significantly less than what it is listed for, it's not worth the hassle IMO. For that kind of price range you'll probably find one here in forum, may not have all the options but certainly worth considering.

Let me put this into perspective for you.They have that car listed at 62,000.

I bought my 2015 z06 w/ 3LZ, Z07, PDR and comp seats with 8,900 miles for 65,000. Non lemon car will hold it's value far more than a lemon car. Pretty much guarantee that if you buy that car, you're never going to be able to resell it (if you were able to resell, it would be for a fraction of what you bought it for) and you're almost 100% guaranteed to have ongoing problems. If you're worried about saving money now... instead worry about saving money down the road on a broken lemon car. There are good deals out there for these cars you just have to find them. I get you're 30 and you want to live a little, but don't make dumb decisions.

Let me put this into perspective for you.They have that car listed at 62,000.

I bought my 2015 z06 w/ 3LZ, Z07, PDR and comp seats with 8,900 miles for 65,000. Non lemon car will hold it's value far more than a lemon car. Pretty much guarantee that if you buy that car, you're never going to be able to resell it (if you were able to resell, it would be for a fraction of what you bought it for) and you're almost 100% guaranteed to have ongoing problems. If you're worried about saving money now... instead worry about saving money down the road on a broken lemon car. There are good deals out there for these cars you just have to find them. I get you're 30 and you want to live a little, but don't make dumb decisions. Assuming/hoping you're going to make more money down the road and making an impulse buy is a terrible choice, but to each his own. Remember.. an extra $3000-$5000 can equal less than an additonal $100 a month in the payment depending on interest rate and length of loan.

Do you really want to risk buying a lemon car to save $100 a month?

When the C8 comes out the price difference will not matter as much.

If you can get a super buy and an extended warrantee I would go with it.

My 88 Olds was a " lemon" demo" , got the extended warrantee. Only lasted 18 years until one of the kids wrecked it.

I know todays cars are more complex - but sometimes it's the dealer who is actually the lemon in the repair department.

My 85 Camaro had issues that the Chevy dealer (4 times) could not correct - I took it to a Cady dealer when visiting a friend in the adjacent state, the Cady dealer fixed it correctly.
kept that one 20 years.

I would have to pass, bad history too many unknowns, even if they give you an extended warranty do you want to spend the majority of your time driving it or scheduling service for it.

I would pass on that one as well.

Look it's not a end of life decision. In 2001 I was told by everyone Not to buy a 2001 Flood Corvette. I bought the car, kept it 3 years, with no problems, sold it to a coworker and he's still driving it. If You feel like you're getting a fair deal don't worry what others opinion of the decision is.

Life is short, Buy the car and have fun, hope for the best.




:flag:

Get the vin # and have the dealer put the GM history.... It is called "Workbench - Sevice & Inspection Tool".

Buy a new one and lease it for three years and toss it! Do not worry about stated value just get the cheapest insurance and ride in to the wind Let the dealer worry about all the problems you might have! .

History
 

06/19/2018114966ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction8449929 - Manual Transmission - Customer Concern Not Duplicated (CCND)6,756 MI06/19/2018114966ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction8039929 - Suspension - Customer Concern Not Duplicated (CCND)6,756 MI03/19/2018111610ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction8441960 - Reverse Gear Replacement6,424 MI02/06/2018110086ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction8442582 - Extension Overhaul6,182 MI02/14/201796793ZREG----Regular Vehicle TransactionAdd Credit8442220 - Transmission Adapter Replacement3,774 MI02/14/201796793ZREG----Regular Vehicle TransactionFull Debit - Reversal8442220 - Transmission Adapter Replacement3,774 MI02/14/201796793ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction8442220 - Transmission Adapter Replacement3,774 MI01/16/201795634ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction0600723 - Chevrolet 2 Year Maintenance3,680 MI01/16/201795634ZFAT----Field Action Recall9102276 - 16007 - N16-204817 - Reprogram Inflatable Restraint Sensing and Diagnostic Module Calibrations3,680 MI09/02/201690081ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction2024270 - Windshield Frame Weatherstrip Replacement3,160 MI07/18/201688169ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction8450010 - Transmission Fluid Auxiliary Cooler Replacement2,281 MI03/30/201683958ZFAT----Field Action Recall9102115 - N150814 - Instrument Cluster Reprogramming with SPS2,130 MI03/01/201682775ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction0600723 - Chevrolet 2 Year Maintenance1,684 MI12/30/201580415ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction0600723 - Chevrolet 2 Year Maintenance523 MI10/05/201594271ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection0590052 - PDI Related Fluid Adds1 MI09/25/2015A03645ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection0590072 - Pre-Delivery Inspection - Base Time1 MI

I have lost money on every Corvette I own. I bought my cars to have fun and drive. It is an expense and costs money.
You said you want to drive it and enjoy the car.
I advise whatever you do avoid being upside down on the car. If that is unavoidable then set a limit on how much you are willing to lose. Drive that car and have a blast.

I see a car that was originally delivered to a dealer in the Buffalo, NY area and then shipped cross country to California. Then I see low miles and some trips to the dealer for rear axle fluid change and brake pad change. Not a lot of miles and then another service. I don't see any hint of any issues based on the service history shown on CarFax. The car may have seen some track time which would account for the alignment, rear diff fluid change (OM says to change after first event and then after every 24 hours of track usage) and brake pad replacement at 4K miles. Not a lot of track time but some since the pads lasted 4K miles and over a year. With heavy track use a person would go through a set of front pads two or three times a year.

It is a manual transmission and there does tend to be some leakage that shows up every now and then. I know mine leaked at one event last year and after the trans was cleaned and covered with a leak detection coating it didn't leak again for another year. That might be why the car was bought back and then auctioned off at a GM dealer auction and shipped back to Wisconsin.

GM doesn't auction these cars off if there is something wrong with them. They are fixed first. I really don't see anything wrong with the car. As somebody said you could talk to a local dealership and see if they would print out the GM VIS records showing the repairs the car has had done to it.

Since the car is in Wisconsin and we are approaching the winter months when Corvette sales drop close to zero in that area the dealership management must be wondering if they are going to be stuck for the next 5 months with the 9 used Corvettes they have on hand. It might be the time to make a deal that will entice them. It isn't like somebody is going to come in the door in that time period looking to buy a Corvette. When you have to walk around in knee deep snow to look at Corvettes you usually don't bother.

bill

I agree with the above. Will you be financing this car? You, are 30 and very likely "stretching" to get this car--is that right? Since it's a '16, can you afford to get an "extended warranty" from GM/Chev which will be anywhere from $800 to maybe as much as $2K or more? Why do I ask---your B2B warranty is about to expire if it hasn't already. Your powertrain warranty will expire at the end of five total years since the in-service date. If you don't get an "extended warranty" all major repairs will be on your dime for non-wear and tear items.

If you are doing the right thing for you (financially) and can afford all of the above and more, fine. Go ahead. Or, you can be like some and roll the dice but if your luck doesn't hold, it will be a lesson. The question is, are the odds against you? It's for you to decide. Me, I wouldn't want to be upside down on a car loan (owe 50, car worth 40=come out of pocket for 10 more)

Ok don't be super scared of a branded title or lemon buy back. Just make sure it was properly repaired and try to get a warranty if they offer it. I'm 33 and have had plenty badass rides and still do ( multiple) since 2011 because mine are rebuilt salvage. Tbh I never have an issue selling them and I do not list or sell 50% under blue book. The disadvantage is it's yellow, branded title (2 huge hits), use those to ur advantage but if it checks out and you like it don't let that deter you. Buy it and enjoy, just know it will be worth about 20% less with the title than a clean title one. Remember you drive the car not the title.

If it's a good deal and you want it buy it. I bought a lemon my self and have been enjoying it for the last 6 years. I know when I sell it will take a hit. But I'm did not buy it to sell it, I bought it to enjoy and I have enjoyed putting 30,000+ trouble free miles on it including some awesome track days.

I don't think you will take a hit. If you have been driving it trouble free for the last 6 years what does a GM Buy Back have to do with anything? We all know that some cars are bought back because GM just decided to do so even though all that was wrong with them was in the owner's mind and no where else. Sometimes you get the best deal possible on a great car by purchasing a buy back.

Bill

You should buy my car https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-loaded-2.html


QUOTE=LiuBearPig;1598228103][/QUOTE]

Bill is right. GM won't auction the car if it hasn't been fixed right. Manufacturer buybacks can actually be very good deals as long as you go in with your eyes open, know what really happened and how it was fixed, and get a very good discount from what similar cars in good condition are selling for. As I recall from my BMW dealership days the used car guys used to discount a trade in that was a buyback by about 30% off a normal wholesale price. Usually the customer bringing a trade had no idea their car was a buyback or a maybe even a salvage title; the dealer they bought it from never disclosed it. I once got a customer a buyback BMW 5 series wagon just like the one he wanted because the reason for the buyback was very minor and mostly related to a very unpleasant and unreasonable customer. It was a car we took in for BMW and we could either buy the car from BMW or send it to auction. Had him sit down with our service manager to discuss it and he came away completely satisfied about it and got the almost new car for about 20%-25% less than he could have otherwise. As others mentioned, however, I am concerned that you are dealing with a dealership that did not disclose the buy back. A buyback car is usually a tough sell--assuming the dealer discloses it to the customer. The dealer probably got it for a very low auction price and trying to get a big profit selling it without disclosure. At this time of year they probably are desperate to move it. You should be able to get it for a much lower price that the asking price. Just be realistic about what you will be able to get for it when you sell or trade it. And note that its original factory warranty expires shortly as the in-service date is November 7, 2015--Bob

I am in the buy it and drive it camp. Yes, you should get some kind of extended warranty. I don't know the inservice date, but my 16 was inservice in late Sept of 16 so still has 11 months of factory warranty left. If you can get a good 3 years extended warranty you should be good to go. The car is about $5-7k under market. That is a pretty nice savings for you. You can hem and haw and let somebody else buy it or talk to them and be driving it next week.

Funny, I actually looked at that car too as it is exactly what I was looking for as well, but 1) it's in WI and I'm in SC so I decided to pass 2) I found out my Z06 actually wasn't totalled after my hydroplaning incident and will be repaired. I digress. There have been some good points made here and the biggest one I'd like to jump on and agree with is that winter is coming up and sales are going to go down. I'd also like to point out that manual yellow vettes sell for less. Not sure why, but it's a thing. To put that price in perspective for everyone saying that price is too high, I bought basically the identical vette (Z06 3LZ, yellow, manaul) back in march (coming up on a year ago but in spring when people are buying sports cars) with 5k miles on it and I paid $64k for it and it DIDN'T have the Z07 package or the stage 3 aero. That's $11k worth of options right there. Even if you cut that value in half for depreciation, you're still looking at a car that has 2k less miles and at least $5k more of goodies for $2k less. Also, to the person that said the car is 5 years old, it's 3 (not sure where that math came from).

Here's what I'd do. I'd offer something like $57k. Keep in mind you'll still have the power train warranty for 2 more years, though the bumper to bumper is expired. They'll obviously haggle and I'd settle on $60k as long as they extend the bumper to bumper part of the warranty for another year as you're "extremely concerned" about the recall and just want to cover your bases. They may not budge on price. The dealership I bought mine from wouldn't. If they don't, I still think it's a good buy.

Thanks for updating. Hate it when people pose these kinds of questions and never say what they ended up doing! BTW, it's obviously a good chunk more, but if you're interested, I found this C7R edition in Charlotte which was what I was absolutely going to get if they totaled mine. It has gone down in price about 5k since I first saw it https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=494110463

After a couple of years of you driving the car with no maintenance issues nobody will care whether or not the car was a buyback. There are just too many buybacks that are so much BS and all GM was doing was getting away from an objectionable Customer.

Bill

That's awesome they offered you the extended warranty. Just make sure they aren't trying to charge you for it. I maintain they'll take 60k for it. If THEY are calling YOU, they ain't got people knocking down their door for it. Hope it works out for you. If not, there's always that C7R 😋

The fact that this thread is still alive and you are still not sure should tell you that your gut is saying don't do it and that you should walk away. All things considered, you will find another Z that will make you happy that does not have all of the potential baggage this one does. Listen to your gut in situations like these.

In general, I agree with going with your gut, but that generally applies to people and if they don't give you a warm fuzzy. Our instincts are to keep us alive, not make a decision on a car purchase. Nothing wrong with going with your gut in most things in life, but when it comes to things like this, I think it comes down to things like hearing other people's experiences and doing research and things like that. Facts over feelings. That being said "listen to your gut" is not the worst advice.

All I know is that the one time I went against my gut on a car purchase and tried to rationalize away obvious issues I ended up paying through the nose for years. Lesson learned.

I know it's tempting when you find a car optioned the way you like. It's difficult to find a used M7/Z07 with comp seats in the color you want & it's even a 3LZ. But I personally wouldn't buy it & would keep looking. There has to be a car out there equipped the way you want with a clear title. If you buy this car & then decide to sell it at some point or something unexpected happens in life & you need to unload it odds are you'll be stuck with it because not many people are willing to buy a branded car.

Walk away, and never look back.
Don't buy it!

It's easy to armchair quarterback it and say "walk away, there's a car out there for you". Funny, it kinda reminds me of dating. "She's not right for you. There's someone better out there just WAITING for you". Look, no one should ever settle, but there's no such thing as the perfect girl OR car. At least with cars you can buy them brand new and build them the way you want, but not all of us can afford a $100k+ car. I digress. There are 2 points in this SPECIFIC car that make it a little tougher to find. 1) It's manual. Just do a search for 2015+ Z06s on autotrader within 200 miles of your location. Like 200 matches or so, right (depending on where you are)? Now eliminated autos. You got like 30 left. It's ridiculous. Now... 2) look for yellow. If you find 5 cars in your area, you're either in a GIANT metro area or super lucky. I guess the OP's conundrum strikes home with me because this is the EXACT same issue I had, plus we're close to the same age and looking to spend about the same amount, so maybe I'm too close to the trees to see the forest. Anyway, long winded way of saying look for MANUAL trans YELLOW Z06s and anyone that says "the perfect car is out there for you" might change their tune. I'm not saying you should settle for whatever you can get, but IMO, if you can get some insurance (aka extended warranty) to cover your ass, on a car that's EXACTLY what you want for the price that works for you, I wouldn't just walk away from it without GOOD reason.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...047a9685b5.jpg:D

Sounds like you've decided to get the car. If you're comfortable with the deal go for it. I hope the car turns out to be trouble free and what you expected. You asked for opinions & found out that branded cars scare most of us away.

I know it's difficult to find an M7 in a particular color with the options you want at a set price. I went through a similar situation several months ago. I literally had 3 or 4 cars to choose from in the entire country that met most of my criteria after searching for a couple of months. I just happened to be searching online at the very moment when a new listing popped up for an M7/Z07 in the correct color, options, & price at an out of state dealer. It was like finding a Unicorn so I called immediately because I knew I wouldn't find another one equipped the same way at my price point. I could have easily missed that new listing & someone else would have ended up with it. I got lucky I guess & for once in my life I was at the right place at the right time.

Interesting coincidence
 

I live in Wisconsin and actually purchased a lemon vehicle from Van Horn 2 years ago at what I thought was an amazing price. If you take a look, Van Horn seems to specialize in these type of deals. A lot of their used car inventories are comprised of lemon cars at a cheaper cost than similar vehicles that are clean titled.

The car I bought was riddled with problems. Luckily, I ended up purchasing an extended warranty and the car had a good amount of the manufacturer warranty left as well. In 2 years of owning, I've had multiple repairs under both warranties. The repairs didn't cost me much financially but it's time consuming and without a doubt frustrating. Not to mention that I feel like the car is a Frankenstein now that it's been picked apart to be fixed for various different issues. And though most people won't be able to tell, I notice them because I'm the owner. You can see marks where the tech replaced certain parts or opened up panels to fix the issues. After all this, I kinda just want to sell the car but I'm going to ride it until it's worthless because the lemon title makes it impossible to sell for what I'd think it'd be fair.

The coincidence part:

Two days ago, I just bought a 2016 C7 Z06 Corvette with a manual transmission. I attached a picture below. I got it for 63k and it seems like the options are spec'd similar and the price is near there too. But might has a clean title. So you might want to wait, I bet better deals will come out. If you really can't afford it, might as well wait couple months for these cars to depreciate to that point. Just my 2 cents. Don't make the same mistake I made.

Good luck with whatever decision you make but great choice on picking a corvette. This thing is something else!

~kman
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...2fd305cc2.jpeg

Two days ago

Definition of "luck" is when preparedness meets opportunity. Life's not a dress rehearsal; when the brass ring goes by, it's the winners in life who grab it. Enjoy your new Z; whatever you end up with you won't be disappointed...

I'm not an expert but I don't think that's the case. They're only required to buy it back if you have to bring it back multiple times for the same problem. Else, if they're able to repair the problem, that's what they will do.

GM Buybacks
 

GM buybacks from authorized GM dealers are guaranteed to be repaired to factory specs.
To insure this, GM provides a 12/12 warranty or remainder of the factory warranty, whichever is longer, from the date you purchase the buyback.
This warranty is known as GM RVDC. There is no charge and no deductible. Only applies to the initial buyer, so check with dealer.
The warranty is worth at least $2500 on a Corvette with expired or short lived warranty.

If you purchase this buy back for $5-10K under the market and keep it 3-4 years you should be able to keep your savings since the other non- buybacks will depreciate more than yours as the value goes down over time as they become 'older' used cars and they get closer in price with yours.When you sell it to the next guy, you will have your personal experience with the car to assure the buyer it is OK even though it's a buyback. The stigma gradually fades over the years and the car will be valued by mileage and condition, not as a new car buyback.

Man, when this guy posts, he BRINGS it! Probably the most valuable post in this whole thread. Excellent information sir

There is no Lemon law protection for used cars. The buyback will come with a minimum of a one year original GM manufacturer's new car warranty extension.
{RVDC}

I'd say if you can confirm with certainty that the part that was troubling the original owner was in fact replaced as part ofd the entire assemblty, why not?

Buybacks are covered by a 12/12 original manufactures's new car warranty extension [Not a service contract] or the remaining new car warranty, whichever is longer.
This would give you one year at least for any problems to arise and have them repaired under warranty.

Your gut knows to run away from this car. If you have a budget, stick to that and wait for the right car to fall within that budget.

I've made a few mistakes over the years and when it came to buying a car. All of them related to my fixation on getting a particular one because I'd already sold myself on the idea and common sense went out the window. I think you may be in the same position. All of us can understand the great desire to have a Z but if this car has had the kind of problems you've described, it will likely continue to do so. Even if you have a long warranty, it could end up in the shop for extended periods of time which will frustrate you. Unless you have a dealer service dept with several Vette techs, a mechanical repair can often take one to three weeks. And, if you go to sell it, that history will come back to haunt you because potential buyers are going to have the same doubts you are having. There's plenty of good cars in your budget out there with a clean history. My advice is to cool your jets a little and find the right car. What you're doing with this one is sort of like going after a beautiful girl while ignoring the fact that she may be "high maintenance" and will turn your life into a nightmare..

I'm curious why people think it's so difficult to resell buyback-titled cars later down the road... Pretty sure the mileage and length of ownership by the second owner would be a clear indication that the issue(s) that caused the initial buyback were likely resolved or non-issues, and it's no better or worse than any other vehicle out there.

I've definitely heard of buybacks occurring because of folks with buyer's remorse making mountains out of molehills for the sole purpose of returning the vehicle. Hell, read through threads on this site and you'll find that some people complain incessantly about the most petty and insignificant things, like a wrinkle or two developing on a seat.

You've already made up your mind then. Best of luck with your new "lemon".:thumbs:

I'm pulling for ya man. I think it'll work out.

I don't see the car having a branded title. It is just a GM buyback. Being a buyback doesn't really imply anything other than GM bought the car back. The biggest issue I think you have is getting the car back to where you live. That will add at least $1500 to the cost of the car. I don't see any car as ever developing persistent issues that can't be fixed. The so called issue was a leaking transmission. They could replace the complete transmission to get rid of any issues with a manufacturing defect that came from Tremec the transmission supplier. If I were you and the car was in the next county I wouldn't worry about the issues. However, going through the hassle of hauling it 2400 miles is what would make me look elsewhere. You may be able to find a similar GM buyback or a better deal much closer to you.

Bill

You asked the forum for it's opinion and we have all offered advice and viewpoints trying to help you. I don't appreciate taking a few minutes out of my life to try to help you and then get some cutesy answer that "the jokes on me". Maybe you intended it as a joke after I read your edit but still, we're only trying to give you the help you asked for. It's your money and you should do whatever makes you happy. Just remember that beautiful girls often turn into old hags. You're fretting over this car too much...make a decision and live with it, good or bad.

you are half correct Bill. It depends on which state it was originally purchased new from a dealer, and their lemon laws. Each state specifies what will occur on the title after a buyback. Many states, the dealers have to have customer sign a disclosure agreement waiver that the customer understands the car was a buyback. I think that waiver carries forward to any future sellers/buyers as well in some cases. Some states do carry a branded/salvage title. Find out what state the dealer was SOLD FROM originally (not titled originally, can be different as dealers can title cars out of their own states) and also find out which state's courts or BBB handled the buyback (usually same as state of original purchase/dealer).. and that will allow for us to track down the answer on "branded title" etc.

Pull the GMVIS report to see exactly what was done.

looks like somebody bought it

thank you everyone who contributed their thoughts and experiences

My bet is you'll soon find the right car and be happy you waited. Life's often like that. Best of luck in your search.

The market is flooded with used ZO6's. You will find the right car just keep looking!!!

I'd say it worked out quite well. Glad to see you didn't settle for a lemon. Enjoy.

Congrats! I'm glad you didn't settle for a lemon as well, but just one with the same color as a lemon. :)

I'm glad this all worked out for you in the end!!!!!! You have one Bad Ass car and I hope you have many miles and smiles to come!!! Congrats and be careful out there. :woohoo:

Congrats,

Can you give us some details on the car? What yr is it? What options does it have? How many miles does it have and how good a bargain was it? What part of TX is it in? Is it a Chevy dealer or is it a used car dealer? Did you get a full warranty or is it limited in some way?

Please send pics and give us a little cross country report as you fight the winter weather back to CA.

If you haven't driven 650 HP 650 Ft/Lb take it easy letting the clutch out.

I am very happy that you continued pursuing Americas Super Car from 18 yr/old to 31. You will be happy you kept the faith.

Dude that's sick! And when I first suggested that other C7R you didn't think you could afford one. Glad you were able to get it man. Congrats!

Which bay area? Frisco or Monterey? I assume Frisco,but PCH goes through the Monterey Bay too. I was stationed there back in the day when I went to language school in the early 00s.