Why did the ZR-1 have to be heavier?
I'm only now getting into C4 Corvettes. But to me the ZR-1 was always the top C4. I knew about the Lotus designed engine, that it was full aluminum and that it was the most powerful C4.
But now reading up a lot on C4s I keep coming across critics on the the ZR-1's weight. I was surprised to find out it's actually heavier than the standard Corvette C4. Because the LT5 is fully aluminum. So the ZR-1 should have been lighter or so I thought? What is it which makes them heavier? The heavy critics on the ZR-1 weight really surprised me. Some of it is quite unflattering and severe. From all the problems I could ever imagine a ZR-1 would have, weight never crossed my mind. To me it is still the ultimate C4 and among the ultimate Corvettes if not the ultimate one. |
The LT-5 is a 5.7 liter engine, but is physically larger than the traditional small block 5.7 350 LT-5 has 4 cams and the chains, gears etc as well as the head size is where alot of the weight is. Do yourself 2 favors. 1. buy or borrow a book called Heart of the Beast. Read it cover to cover... twice.... 2.Then go drive a well cared for ZR-1. Even if you don't buy one, you'll at least know for yourself rather than listen to people who have no first hand experience with one:cheers:
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Originally Posted by 81c3
(Post 1598258824)
The LT-5 is a 5.7 liter engine, but is physically larger than the traditional small block 5.7 350 LT-5 has 4 cams and the chains, gears etc as well as the head size is where alot of the weight is. Do yourself 2 favors. 1. buy or borrow a book called Heart of the Beast. Read it cover to cover... twice.... 2.Then go drive a well cared for ZR-1. Even if you don't buy one, you'll at least know for yourself rather than listen to people who have no first hand experience with one:cheers:
But I would think if they had just added turbos or a supercharger, instead of developing the LT5, it would have also ended up heavier. So the LT5 in my eyes in an achievement. As for listening to people who doesn't know what they are talking about, even Callaway called the ZR-1 heavy it seems. But I'm not criticizing it. I'm just trying to understand where the extra weight came from as I always thought the all aluminum engine actually saved weight. Thanks for the book tip. I'm actually in the process of selecting a C4 book. I have seen a couple of titles mentioned but haven't decided which one to buy first yet. |
Originally Posted by Zak2018
(Post 1598258931)
Thanks. That makes sense.
But I would think if they had just added turbos or a supercharger, instead of developing the LT5, it would have also ended up heavier. So the LT5 in my eyes in an achievement. As for listening to people who doesn't know what they are talking about, even Callaway called the ZR-1 heavy it seems. But I'm not criticizing it. I'm just trying to understand where the extra weight came from as I always thought the all aluminum engine actually saved weight. Thanks for the book tip. I'm actually in the process of selecting a C4 book. I have seen a couple of titles mentioned but haven't decided which one to buy first yet. |
GM spent a lot of money developing the LT5 and expensive engineering costs rolled into the price of the option package served to push ZR-1 out of reach of most of Corvette's traditional blue collar buyers. The shining star achievement of ZR-1 of course was its sophisticated world class engine but mounting development costs positioned ZR-1 in a market segment typically populated by high performance European imports whose buyers are sensitive about the brand image parked in driveways of their upscale neighborhoods. Other features of the ZR-1 package were mostly appearance items which offered little to enhance other performance characteristics beyond the car's impressive straight line top speed. ZR-1 also shared the base car's rather heavy multi-piece Uniframe which by that time had become a little long in the tooth because lighter and stiffer advanced one-piece hydro-formed frame engineering was still off in the future waiting for C5 to take over. Another factor was the "gold chain" image Corvette was beginning to wear in the marketplace which Chevrolet soon became well aware of and addressed with the de-contented and de-badged C6.
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Originally Posted by Zak2018
(Post 1598258475)
The heavy critics on the ZR-1 weight really surprised me. Some of it is quite unflattering and severe. From all the problems I could ever imagine a ZR-1 would have, weight never crossed my mind.
To me it is still the ultimate C4 and among the ultimate Corvettes if not the ultimate one.
Originally Posted by Zak2018
(Post 1598258931)
But I'm not criticizing it. I'm just trying to understand where the extra weight came from as I always thought the all aluminum engine actually saved weight. Thanks for the book tip. I'm actually in the process of selecting a C4 book. I have seen a couple of titles mentioned but haven't decided which one to buy first yet. I find when trying to explain the experience overall, it's kinda like attempting to describe sex to a virgin.:rolleyes: The actual experience far outweighs just reading about it! |
Originally Posted by Paul Workman
(Post 1598260025)
Well, consider the source(s) of the criticism before drawing conclusion(s). Some people have actual experience with the ZR-1, and some just read about it (and spout off as a self-appointed 'expert' later).
I find when trying to explain the experience overall, it's kinda like attempting to describe sex to a virgin.:rolleyes: The actual experience far outweighs just reading about it! As I said before, I'm trying to understand the reasons the ZR-1 came out heavier. It does weight more than the standard cars. So I hope this won't turn into a ZR-1 defense thread. I don't think it needs defense. 81c3 's and PerKr's replies are more in line with what I was looking for. Analyzing and explaining the reasons. ;) |
Originally Posted by Zak2018
(Post 1598258931)
Thanks. That makes sense.
But I would think if they had just added turbos or a supercharger, instead of developing the LT5, it would have also ended up heavier. So the LT5 in my eyes in an achievement. As for listening to people who doesn't know what they are talking about, even Callaway called the ZR-1 heavy it seems. But I'm not criticizing it. I'm just trying to understand where the extra weight came from as I always thought the all aluminum engine actually saved weight. Thanks for the book tip. I'm actually in the process of selecting a C4 book. I have seen a couple of titles mentioned but haven't decided which one to buy first yet. |
Originally Posted by 81c3
(Post 1598260565)
I was not disagreeing with the car being heavier.... I was telling you why it was in regards to the LT-5
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Originally Posted by Zak2018
(Post 1598260593)
Absolutely. I didn't say you were disagreeing. I just wanted to bring up that the sources don't seem to be all clueless. ;)
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Besides the engine, the rear fascia was larger to fit the wider 11" wheels & tires. The doors likely also weighed more as they fanned out to meet the larger rear fascia. Interior was mostly the same, but a small amount of weight was likely added for the power key. The rear mounted stop light was not integrated into the rear fascia and likely weighed a little more. One area that likely gave a bit of weight savings was the A/C system which was smaller on the ZR-1 due to packaging with the LT5 (and led to the reflective front windshield).
As others discussed, the engine was far bigger physically. The small block did have AL heads as well, but the LT5's heads, being DOHC, were much larger. 4 camshafts versus 1 (and associated chains), 32 valves versus 16, larger intake system to include the dual runners, larger sump with more oil. ZR-1s were also fitted with every available option. Even with the extra weight, the HP per pound in the ZR-1 was still significantly higher. |
most over head cam v8s are as large as push rod big blocks once you visualize things like this you can understand why the car weighs what it does.
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The LT5 has 12 quarts of oil
Charlie 92 ZR-1 |
The other thing that kinda screwed up the Z was the cost of each engine. The engines themselves were over 20k to build... so they were so expensive they really had to fully option the car to help justify the cost. The ZR1 came with every option available. The only thing you could get extra was swapping to the clear roof or choosing the dual roof option. All of those options aren't light and since they were standard the car was weighed in accordingly. The weight differential on a fully optioned regular C4 vs a ZR1 won't be as much as the listed weights because of it. The LT5 only weighed 39 pounds more than the L98. I'd take a stab and say the 39 pounds for the engine plus another 40 pounds in wider rear wheels/tires and the body work is all the weight difference is. Likely even less than that.
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Like the others have said, the weight comes from the addition of "stuff". Dual overhead cams adds weight. The engine design added weight, so on and so forth.
OHV is a very compact and light engine design, that's one of its many benefits. So that's why it had to be heavier, OHC engines just weigh more |
Originally Posted by vetteLT193
(Post 1598261916)
The LT5 only weighed 39 pounds more than the L98.
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This is interesting.......... Post 10 & 11 Also post 19 says 596lbs dry for the LT-5
https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com...t4-weight.html |
Originally Posted by 81c3
(Post 1598263060)
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Ok. It's getting easier to understand now why it's heavier. But to be honest, the LT5 is so sweet that it basically doesn't matter. And the power to weight ratio is still up. Maybe if one would like to lighten it up a little, he could just lose some of the luxury options. Maybe there are things which no longer work anyway at this point and can be thrown off? I hear FX3 doesn't work in most C4s anymore for example.
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By the way, this is a nice watch about the ZR-1 breaking the world record. Most probably seen it but I thought I would leave it here:
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