Stuck Kingpins
I'm rebuilding the front suspension on my 57 and the kingpin on the drivers side is stuck and I don't want to force it until I make sure that it just drives out without heat etc . I removed the caps and "C" clips and the center pin and tried to drive it out and it won't budge . I understand from some articles that I have read that they should just float in the bore and should just drive out . I haven't started tearing down the passenger side yet so I don't know if it will be the same . Any thoughts ?
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1 Attachment(s)
BJ, Here is an article by Tom Parsons (DZAuto). Hopefully he will chime in with some advice. Barry |
Originally Posted by Hermn59
(Post 1598473017)
BJ, Here is an article by Tom Parsons (DZAuto). Hopefully he will chime in with some advice. Barry |
Just to be sure, by center pin you mean the bolt that goes thru the center of the spindle and locks the king pin in? Have you tried driving out both directions?
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Originally Posted by bj1k
(Post 1598472679)
I'm rebuilding the front suspension on my 57 and the kingpin on the drivers side is stuck and I don't want to force it until I make sure that it just drives out without heat etc . I removed the caps and "C" clips and the center pin and tried to drive it out and it won't budge . I understand from some articles that I have read that they should just float in the bore and should just drive out . I haven't started tearing down the passenger side yet so I don't know if it will be the same . Any thoughts ?
I would not call this problem common, BUUUUUUUUUUT, it does happen. And the specific reason for a kingpin refusing to slide out (YES, just slide out) is because a previous owner(s) DID NOT keep it adequately greased!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thus, the result is somewhere between a kingpin that is slightly difficult to remove, OR, completely seized! First thing to try, with the caps, clips and lock bolt removed, is to use a fairly heavy punch or a drift and drive it out (or attempt to drive it out). If you like, you can also use an old socket (that you don't mind damaging) which is just a tiny bit smaller than the diameter of the kingpin. Once the king pin is out (assuming you get it out with this method) then again, use a socket that is slightly smaller than the diameter of the bushings to drive them out. If the above fails to remove the kingpin, then the next step is to remove the spindle support from the upper and lower A-frames. Carefully position it in a press and press out the kingpin and then press out the bushings. Once the kingpin and bushings are removed, I cannot emphasize enough to THOROUGHLY clean the bores in the spindle (NOT the spindle support, you do not want the new kingpin to be sloppy in the knuckle of the spindle support). I have VERY, VERY, VERY LIGHTLY honed the bushing bores using a wheel cylinder hone in an AIR powered drill, with it emersed in water. Just hone, test fit a bushing, hone, test fit, hone, test fit, until the bushing just barely slides through the bore with light lubrication. http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n/100_1121.jpg http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n/100_1122.jpg Here is what the bushing end of a used kingpin SHOULD look like when kept well greased. https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h...n/100_1124.jpg Here is what kingpins can look like when not kept greased and have become rusted and seized in the bushings!!! https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h...n/100_1123.jpg Let me know if you have more questions. |
Originally Posted by DZAUTO
(Post 1598475070)
BJ,
I would not call this problem common, BUUUUUUUUUUT, it does happen. And the specific reason for a kingpin refusing to slide out (YES, just slide out) is because a previous owner(s) DID NOT keep it adequately greased!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thus, the result is somewhere between a kingpin that is slightly difficult to remove, OR, completely seized! First thing to try, with the caps, clips and lock bolt removed, is to use a fairly heavy punch or a drift and drive it out (or attempt to drive it out). If you like, you can also use an old socket (that you don't mind damaging) which is just a tiny bit smaller than the diameter of the kingpin. Once the king pin is out (assuming you get it out with this method) then again, use a socket that is slightly smaller than the diameter of the bushings to drive them out. If the above fails to remove the kingpin, then the next step is to remove the spindle support from the upper and lower A-frames. Carefully position it in a press and press out the kingpin and then press out the bushings. Once the kingpin and bushings are removed, I cannot emphasize enough to THOROUGHLY clean the bores in the spindle (NOT the spindle support, you do not want the new kingpin to be sloppy in the knuckle of the spindle support). I have VERY, VERY, VERY LIGHTLY honed the bushing bores using a wheel cylinder hone in an AIR powered drill, with it emersed in water. Just hone, test fit a bushing, hone, test fit, hone, test fit, until the bushing just barely slides through the bore with light lubrication. http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n/100_1121.jpg http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n/100_1122.jpg Here is what the bushing end of a used kingpin SHOULD look like when kept well greased. https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h...n/100_1124.jpg Here is what kingpins can look like when not kept greased and have become rusted and seized in the bushings!!! https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h...n/100_1123.jpg Let me know if you have more questions. |
You can apply some heat evenly around the bores for the bushings. But your best bet is to use a press. Try to get some kind of lubricant into each end of the kingpin/bushings.
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https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7771c58ee.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...998d89713.jpeg One was so badly seized in one of mine we had to cut it apart to drive it out. |
Yes, use some sort of penetrating oil, Kroil, etc everywhere there is places that it can seep into the kingpin bore. Acetone mixed with ATF about 50/50 will work in a pinch if you have both available.
Doug |
Tell me how you were able to get to the KP to cut it apart without destroying the spindle or support. Blow out the bearing first?
Doug
Originally Posted by ettev
(Post 1598475774)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7771c58ee.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...998d89713.jpeg One was so badly seized in one of mine we had to cut it apart to drive it out. |
Originally Posted by DZAUTO
(Post 1598475755)
You can apply some heat evenly around the bores for the bushings. But your best bet is to use a press. Try to get some kind of lubricant into each end of the kingpin/bushings.
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One set I had went through a fire. The king pin would not come out even with using a 20 ton press at a semi truck shop. The guy felt so bad that he did not charge me for the work. The kingpin was torched and still stuck. Luckily, I had another set of spindles and brackets. I kept the part as a fun thing to leave on the shelf. Completely amazing how seized the king pin was into the spindle bracket.
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Originally Posted by jimh_1962
(Post 1598476557)
One set I had went through a fire. The king pin would not come out even with using a 20 ton press at a semi truck shop. The guy felt so bad that he did not charge me for the work. The kingpin was torched and still stuck. Luckily, I had another set of spindles and brackets. I kept the part as a fun thing to leave on the shelf. Completely amazing how seized the king pin was into the spindle bracket.
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Has anyone tried a power hammer? Vibration works wonders.
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Originally Posted by bj1k
(Post 1598479128)
I had both spindles out today and put them in a 20 ton press and couldn't get them to move so I took them to two different shops and they both said that they no longer had the reamers to do the job. What would the reamers be for ? I thought it just required changing the bronze bushings and kingpins .
The bushings AND the kingpins are floating. If the bushing bores in the spindles are reamed, then the bushings will be sloppy loose!!! With a clean, smooth bore, and some light lubrication, a new bushing should slide through the bore with MINIMAL, I mean MINIMAL finger pressure. One end of the bushing has a groove around it, and a hole in the groove. The bushing is installed with the groove inline with the grease fitting, and the hole in the groove OPPOSITE, repeat, OPPOSITE the grease fitting hole. When greased, the grease goes into and around the groove, then into the hole on the opposite side and then into the spiral groove on the INSIDE of the bushing. Thus, grease is supposed to be forced around the bushing, between the outside of the bushing and the inside of the bushing bore in the spindle. Also, as grease enters the hole in the bushing, it then goes inside the bushing between the bushing and the kingpin. When greasing these kingpin frontends, it is important to grease, rotate the wheel/spindle assembly back and forth (to work grease into all areas of the bore/bushing/kingpin, and then grease some more. Greasing these old frontends is a messy job at best (have LOTS of rags handy!!!!!), but thorough greasing every single joint will assure long life!!!!!!!!!! I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ANY OF THE ABOVE ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!! |
Originally Posted by Dan Hampton
(Post 1598479275)
Has anyone tried a power hammer? Vibration works wonders.
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Originally Posted by DZAUTO
(Post 1598479324)
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, DON'T LET SOMEONE TOUCH THE SPINDLE BORES OR THE BORE IN THE SPINDLE SUPPORT KNUCKLE WITH A REAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, DON'T LET THEM TOUCH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
The bushings AND the kingpins are floating. If the bushing bores in the spindles are reamed, then the bushings will be sloppy loose!!! With a clean, smooth bore, and some light lubrication, a new bushing should slide through the bore with MINIMAL, I mean MINIMAL finger pressure. One end of the bushing has a groove around it, and a hole in the groove. The bushing is installed with the groove inline with the grease fitting, and the hole in the groove OPPOSITE, repeat, OPPOSITE the grease fitting hole. When greased, the grease goes into and around the groove, then into the hole on the opposite side and then into the spiral groove on the INSIDE of the bushing. Thus, grease is supposed to be forced around the bushing, between the outside of the bushing and the inside of the bushing bore in the spindle. Also, as grease enters the hole in the bushing, it then goes inside the bushing between the bushing and the kingpin. When greasing these kingpin frontends, it is important to grease, rotate the wheel/spindle assembly back and forth (to work grease into all areas of the bore/bushing/kingpin, and then grease some more. Greasing these old frontends is a messy job at best (have LOTS of rags handy!!!!!), but thorough greasing every single joint will assure long life!!!!!!!!!! I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ANY OF THE ABOVE ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!! |
Originally Posted by bj1k
(Post 1598479128)
I had both spindles out today and put them in a 20 ton press and couldn't get them to move so I took them to two different shops and they both said that they no longer had the reamers to do the job. What would the reamers be for ? I thought it just required changing the bronze bushings and kingpins .
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Originally Posted by bj1k
(Post 1598479128)
I had both spindles out today and put them in a 20 ton press and couldn't get them to move so I took them to two different shops and they both said that they no longer had the reamers to do the job. What would the reamers be for ? I thought it just required changing the bronze bushings and kingpins .
Bill |
Don't be afraid to use a torch and heat it. Turn it red and get ready to frail the hell out of it. You can get it that way, the heat won't hurt it at all. Use as heavy of a hammer that you can swing in there and have a brave sidekick hold your drift pin for you.
Good luck, Stafford |
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