Delrin bushings or monoball?
 

I'm thinking about putting either the Ridetech delrin bushings or LG monoball control arm bushings in my Grandsport. Does anybody have experience with either? My car is 50/50 street/track with mostly autocross and a few track days. I also have the DSC controller, is the DSC capable of lessening the harshness of the bushings? I'm assuming they both ride about the same as neither have much give. I would like to hear some from people on the comfort for street use and improvements on the track. I do use the car for occasional day trips or weekend getaways. Not a daily driver.

Thanks

I guess I should have posted this in the autocross/road race forum.
Could the moderator please move this thread?

I have the ridetech delrin in my Z06 and I don't think it rides much worse than stock. I also have a C3 that is pretty stiff so the Z06 always feels 10 times more compliant when I hop in and go for a spin. I specifically chose delrin for the track performance and street comfort. For me it seemed like the best of both for my end goal. I do agree that monoball is the better track option. Ride quality is so subjective that I think the only way you'll know for sure is to go for a ride in a car with either/both and see for yourself.

fleming23
Would you say there was a dramatic increase in handling over the stock bushings?

I had the Ridetech delrin bushing installed in my c6. It does improve the feel and responsiveness but you pay a price for street driving. In my experience I feel every bump, ripple or imperfection on the road. I also have stiffer shocks and larger sway bars. My car is 90% track so I can live with the issues. Hope this helps.

Mike

I had the Ridetech delrin in my C5z which was a daily driver that I autocrossed or tracked every other weekend, all year long. The front upper bushings on the car were hammered out at the time so Delrin seemed a reasonable idea for longevity if nothing else. I really liked it. It really tightened up the car a lot. We all know that c5 and c6 don't have the sharpest feel in the wheel and the delrin bushings helped that a lot. The car felt much sharper, the suspension worked truer and for most bumps it absorbed them even better. The car had the DRM shocks and the Strano front bar on it. I was really pleased with how the car felt when the bushings went on. Confidence level went up because feeling went up.

On the flip side, as a daily, sharp edged bumps, such as expansion joints on concrete highways were not fun. I accidentally turned down a cobblestone road in Savannah once. It was like standing on a jack hammer. 90% of the time it was better or at least the same feeling as the rubber, but that 10% when it was worse, it was FAR FAR worse.

I haven't tried monoball. I put a ton of miles on my cars and I'm not sure how the monoball would compare in longevity. It would be interesting to know.

I just had AMT monoballs installed with LG Coilovers and finally got to go out and burnish the new rotors and pads today for a track day on Saturday. Just like every other vehicle I've had with solid a-arm suspension bushings, the ride is not rougher in the traditional sense. The term I use is firmer but smoother. The biggest culprit to a "rough" ride are the type of tires and inflation pressures. I'm running on Toyo R888R's and they have a high pitch whine....and often times people relate noise to a rougher ride. I found the Toyo's to be smoother due to their roundness but pretty firm you when hit irregular road surfaces. The monoballs have much less stiction so the suspension moves more free. I do think that the monoballs may transmit more noise or harmonics through the car, but noise is not the same as ride harshness IMO.
Drove about 40 miles today and honestly, if I had street biased tires in stock sizes on the car, I don't think most people would be able to tell I had monoballs vs even the rubber bushings.

At highway speeds hitting expansion joints and bot dots, the ride harshness is not any different than with rubber A-Arm bushings, Toyo R888R's, Z06 leaf springs and Johnny O'Connell shocks.

I run R888R's on my C5Z and couldn't believe how loud they are for how simple teh tread pattern is.

I use VanSteel and love them. Very well made product.
https://www.vansteel.com/index.cfm?f...=32027&ID=3650

Sorry, never saw this. Dramatic increase, no.....not unless your rubber bushings are worn. Even with monoballs I don't think you are going to get anything dramatic, but consistency is key for sure. Honestly, my ride quality did not seem to change much at all, either on track or the street but that was the goal. My end goal was to prevent or minimize deflection found in rubber bushings. You can watch plenty of video, I believe LG has a good one, of how much the control arms move with rubber bushings compared to aftermarket.

I have Borg's bushings and love them. Mostly autocross, some track and some street use. I can't use monoballs in STU class.

I personally think monoballs is the most dramatic thing one can do to the handling of their car. The immediacy of the car to your reactions is the biggest change. Without waiting for all that rubber to compress and deflect before the car changes directions it really makes it feel like a true race car. It's also just easier to find and drive at the limit because when your cross the line its so much easier to get the car to correct again without having to wait for rubber to react.

This is 100% correct. Monoballs are the best of both worlds. I have driven multiple vehicles with rubbber, poly, monoball both on street and on track. Stock rubber is good at isolating noise and vibration but allows huge alignment changes when on track. Poly or delrin are really hard and help with alignment and deflection, but their operation is not smooth like a monoball. There is still some sticky friction that occurs which contribute to the harsh ride as well as increase noise and vibration. Monoballs are as close to zero friction as you can get (without having a fixed member) to allow for smooth operation.

I had a 4th gen Camaro I installed monoballs on for the rear trailing arms and panhard bar. On expansion joints and bumps on the highway the rear end would jump back and forth a bit with the stock rubber. After the monoball/heim conversion it would track straight over bumps and was just as comfortable to ride in. That was probably the biggest change I noticed in a monoball setup. Yes the race car has them also, and as Mark noted makes a huge difference in the way a race car handles, but you expect that. I did not expect a more pleasant street driving experience from them

I've had monoballs on two street driven cars, a 240Z and a S13, and I currently have poly on my C5Z06.
I'll echo what everyone else had said, great sharpness, harsh on square edge bumps like expansion joints. Stock corvette bushings are embarrassingly soft.

Two important points to add, if this is street/track car do you switch tires back and forth? Get a tire with a lot of sidewall for the street even a smaller diameter rim if you can. Extra sidewall can really smooth things out.
Secondly, for a street car, monoballs on the road will absolutely wear out, I don't know of any that are sealed effectively. Dust. dirt, water, grime WILL get in there and wear them out. NOTHING harsher than a worn out heim joint with a little bit of play in it. If you are going to put any street miles on your car I would recommend delrin. If you are really all track and you are willing to clean out the monoballs after wet track days then don't compromise.

My first track car was a 1985 Camaro Z28 and it had full Del-A-Lum front A-Arm bushings and every other rear attachment point was heim joints on the trailing arms, panhard bar, etc. Ride was improved from a smoothness point of view but the way the trailing arms and panhard bar are connect to those old F-bodies made it a much noisier ride. It made the car sound like I had removed the sound deadener.

What made the biggest difference in ride quality was a complete bolt in roll cage from Auto Power. Those F-bodies were so flimsly the flexed all over the place. Bolting in a roll cage stiffened the chassis a lot and allowed only the suspension to move when hitting potholes, etc with a single "thump" instead of a thump, boom, shudder, thump. I didn't expect that benefit.

I can't speak to monoballs, sounds like a birth defect :rofl: However I have used both poly and delrin. For a tracked car running real slicks, you need to do something; your stock bushings will move all over the place and eventually be deformed based on what I saw on my C5Z. I first did the poly route. While poly was an improvement, it turned out to be a tremendous waste of time. The "Whale Snot" grease needs to be reapplied at least annually, this requires disassembly. Other folks have drilled their A-arms for zerk fittings, perhaps that helps a bit on the maintenance side. When the poly was in need of a greasing, stiction was insane. Measured by removing the shocks and using the WTF-o-meter as I moved the upper/lower assembly by hand.

Then I upgraded to Delrin. I did the work myself. Fitting the bushings is no more than an exercise in patience to get things fit nice and snug. Delrin has been in place for more than 5 years. I have never had a need to remove them. While doing my engine change this year, I pulled the coil-overs, and the upper/lower assemblies move freely throughout their range. There is no detectable play anywhere.

All the comments about ride being harsh are true. My car is 98% track, with a full cage. The ride is not fun on anything but decent roads. Uneven expansion joints on concrete highways are annoying. On the track, it is fantastic.

Your mileage may vary.

I did my first track day with monoballs and coilovers at Thunderhill yesterday. First session was a waste of time due the the track being very damp. The sun dried out the track by my second session and I was able to feel out the new combo. Very predictable and grippy. The track was very green but by my third session I was feeling really good about pushing the car and trusting it....there is a lot left in the car, I just have to push it harder since it really is forgiving compared to the factory setup. I really did not want to have an "off" as it had been raining for much of the week before...very muddy off track.

Here is an interesting comparison on how my C5 Z06 on monoballs, LG coilovers and Toyo 295/30/18 R888R square rides against a $550,000.00 Ford GT. My buddy just got the car and drove it up to Thunderhill to put some break in miles on the car and be a passenger in my car for a session. I took him out for my third session, my C5 did great and he was very impressed with the speed of the car considering the motor is essentially stock. I drove my car on the highway and city streets for a day and other than the whine of the R888R's it really wasn't bad...the tires and monoballs increase noise more than anything else IMO.

What I wasn't expecting was the ride quality and noise of the new Ford GT. Right after the 3rd session we jumped in his car to go to lunch at the Willows airport cafe (small airport cafe's have the best comfort food IMO). He put the car's shocks in "comfort mode" and this supercar's ride was no better than my C5 on essentially a full race car suspension. The other surprise was how loud the car is inside the cabin. It is like being in a car with no factory sound deadening.....the motor wasn't loud, but there is a lot of tire noise, wind noise and just background noise. It is the perfect car to drive the wife in if you don't want to have a conversation with her, lol. Coming from the Viper world, I thought I knew what raw was....not even close. A stock Viper is a quiet and smooth compared to the new FGT. He has the optional Akrapovic exhaust and it sounds pretty good when hard on the throttle. What was the most impressive mechanical aspect was the dual clutch transmission....it accelerates so hard and seamless and felt so stable I was very impressed. And the looks are out of this world....but the car really is a race car that is legalized for the road.

Overall a pretty freaking awesome day with great sunny weather, great track time and fun company.

I've had both high quality sphericals and delrin. Absolutely zero difference in feel or speed.

That's exactly what I was wondering. Good to know.

Thanks