TSP/PRC Head Porting
I've been reading threads like crazy about cylinder heads and I've seen a couple people who have sent their LS7 heads to TSP to have the guides fixed/replace the intake/exhaust valves. Does anyone know what Ti intake valve and SS exhaust valve they use? Also curious with anyone's experience having your LS7 reworked by TSP/PRC. I'm not worried about flow/power as I'll be leaving the stock cam, replacing lifters and potentially TSP new roller rockers. Thank you.
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They were were one of the shops I looked at early on based on the action center article. Great price for the CNC port work, probably great machine work and turn around. However, I emailed TSP and had to follow up a few times to get a response. My understanding is they CNC the old guides out as part of their CNC porting program and replace with bronze as standard. My understanding is their guides are not compatible with the stock or beehive type springs. As such, once you buy their guides, you are into a dual spring and retainer set up. The issues for which I still really don't have clear answers are:
1) As the factory guide is being CNC machined out, does TSP take the opportunity to correct any valve guide location or angle issues as it is known, some of the LS7 heads not only had a concentricity issue but also the distance between the guide and rocker fulcrum centerline was inconsistent? 2) TSP has stated they will install a "steel" guide for an additional cost. I have no idea what they are calling a "steel" guide. Powdered metal comes in several different formulations with different properties and I am not sure why an OEM type guide would be an additional cost. 3) Exactly what is done with the factory Ti valve stem finish? It is widely thought that Ti and bronze guides do not get along well together. Katech has success using a moly coating on their Ti intake valves with a factory rocker but then again, you have to buy their valves to use the bronze guide. AHP has had success refinishing the stock Ti intakes using a PM or MS90 guide. I have personally not seen consistent long term success using the OEM Ti valve with a bronze guide. (my own fixed heads, stock cam 07 Z06 has this combination and the intakes are shot after a very short time). |
Originally Posted by Formula8
(Post 1598852368)
They were were one of the shops I looked at early on based on the action center article. Great price for the CNC port work, probably great machine work and turn around. However, I emailed TSP and had to follow up a few times to get a response. My understanding is they CNC the old guides out as part of their CNC porting program and replace with bronze as standard. My understanding is their guides are not compatible with the stock or beehive type springs. As such, once you buy their guides, you are into a dual spring and retainer set up. The issues for which I still really don't have clear answers are:
1) As the factory guide is being CNC machined out, does TSP take the opportunity to correct any valve guide location or angle issues as it is known, some of the LS7 heads not only had a concentricity issue but also the distance between the guide and rocker fulcrum centerline was inconsistent? 2) TSP has stated they will install a "steel" guide for an additional cost. I have no idea what they are calling a "steel" guide. Powdered metal comes in several different formulations with different properties and I am not sure why an OEM type guide would be an additional cost. 3) Exactly what is done with the factory Ti valve stem finish? It is widely thought that Ti and bronze guides do not get along well together. Katech has success using a moly coating on their Ti intake valves with a factory rocker but then again, you have to buy their valves to use the bronze guide. AHP has had success refinishing the stock Ti intakes using a PM or MS90 guide. I have personally not seen consistent long term success using the OEM Ti valve with a bronze guide. (my own fixed heads, stock cam 07 Z06 has this combination and the intakes are shot after a very short time).
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Originally Posted by BigVette427
(Post 1598853850)
. The DW Ti valves have a chromium-nitride coating to them to help reduce the abrasiveness of the surface of the valve, which is also the reason why Del West began additionally tumble polishing (at the bequest of GM) these valves, as well.
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Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
(Post 1598854067)
Only pointing this out because I know you like to be accurate - the CrN coating isn't there to make the Ti smooth, it's there to protect the valve from wear. The CrN coating is rough and they are tumble polishing them to smooth out the applied finish. :cheers:
http://www.sinusvalves.com/en-us/pvd...tride_coating/ https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d8a366d92e.jpg |
Thanks for the comments! Alot of the same questions it seems. I keep going back to AHP w/ MS90s, Johnson 2110s, (would that require new pushrods?), and probably PSI 1511s. Then after that just learn to drive the car :smash:
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Originally Posted by OneMeanZ
(Post 1598856157)
Thanks for the comments! Alot of the same questions it seems. I keep going back to AHP w/ MS90s, Johnson 2110s, (would that require new pushrods?), and probably PSI 1511s. Then after that just learn to drive the car :smash:
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Originally Posted by OneMeanZ
(Post 1598856157)
Thanks for the comments! Alot of the same questions it seems. I keep going back to AHP w/ MS90s, Johnson 2110s, (would that require new pushrods?), and probably PSI 1511s. Then after that just learn to drive the car :smash:
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Whoever told that TSP guides cant be utilized with beehive style valve springs does not know what the heck is talking about.
Personally, I ran TSP CNC ported stock LS7 castings with PSI LS1515ML and LS1516ML beehive springs without issue. |
Originally Posted by OneMeanZ
(Post 1598856157)
Thanks for the comments! Alot of the same questions it seems. I keep going back to AHP w/ MS90s, Johnson 2110s, (would that require new pushrods?), and probably PSI 1511s. Then after that just learn to drive the car :smash:
First: The 2110 cup is .045" higher than the LS7 lifter Second: Recommended preload on the 2110 is .035" -.040" Third: If the head has been milled it will most likely require new PU Forth: If a new VJ is performed, the valve will sink deeper into the seat and may require a new PU depending on type of lifter and reload requirement Remember VT measurements are critical since we are stacking tolerances, so your measurements must be on point for a happy valve train. |
Originally Posted by Da Z06
(Post 1598870811)
Whoever told that TSP guides cant be utilized with beehive style valve springs does not know what the heck is talking about.
Personally, I ran TSP CNC ported stock LS7 castings with PSI LS1515ML and LS1516ML beehive springs without issue. |
Originally Posted by Formula8
(Post 1598871665)
I was primarily referring to stock springs and assumed the PSI springs would use a thicker spring if anything. In any event, this is from the TSP site: **If stock guides are replaced, stock springs can not be used due to the larger O.D. of the aftermarket guide. Spring kit must be replaced with aftermarket as well.
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Originally Posted by Millenium Z06
(Post 1598875887)
Seems to me that's referring to the stock spring not being big enough, not that beehives are incompatible with the guide. Over .600/.625, I think I'd rather have a dual spring anyway
Katech has been using the PSI 1511ML's with their Torquer LS7 110/116 cams for years, which has a max lift of .648" on the exhaust side. I believe that I have read some folks check their PSI beehives upwards of 20,000 miles and measured no discernible measure of wear in the spring; always interested in learning more to see just how long one might be able to go on those springs, on that cam. The camshaft lobe profile will make a big difference on the valvetrain wears, so having an LS friendly lobe can make or break how well your entire valvetrain holds up. Katech even has a new Torquer LT1 camshaft with lifts at .643"/.655" (219/233 and 118 LSA) that they still recommend to run the PSI 1511ML's. According to Katech's website, they say that in the LS7, Katech installs the 1511's at 1.850" and at that height, the 1511 has 113 lbs of seat pressure and is good for lifts up to .700"! I thought Kohle told me once that they like to install the 1511's at 1.83" which (according to PSI's website) gives the spring a little more seat pressure at 118 lbs and slightly more desirable Distance to Coil Bind. He also said he thought .650" was the highest that he would want to go with the 1511's and if you want to go slightly higher, PSI has a 1515ML or a new 1516ML beehives. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...9a3c9adbd0.jpg https://www.psisprings.com/calculate/ |
PSI beehive are second to none. The PSI 1511, 1515 and the 1516 are badass springs.
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Originally Posted by Da Z06
(Post 1598879155)
PSI beehive are second to none. The PSI 1511, 1515 and the 1516 are badass springs.
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Originally Posted by Da Z06
(Post 1598870811)
Whoever told that TSP guides cant be utilized with beehive style valve springs does not know what the heck is talking about.
Personally, I ran TSP CNC ported stock LS7 castings with PSI LS1515ML and LS1516ML beehive springs without issue. |
Lol oh boy...looks like they just wanted to make something up so you didnt run a beehive (out of their comfort zone perhaps).
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