Track tires
 

Is anyone running the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires on track days? I'm trying to get more track days out of each set of tires to keep from having to splash out $1,400 - $2,000 on my GS too often. On track days I don't shred the tires into/through every corner, but I do like to power out! I'm running in the intermediate/advanced groups. I'm there to have lots of fun laps vs. fastest possible laps. If the A/S 3+ isn't a great option, it seems to me that $1,400 for the Continental Extreme Contact Sports is a better way to go than the MPSS at ~$2,000. I don't need the run flat feature of the MPSS. Thanks for any insights guys.

This doesn’t answer your question but I’ve got a set of take off OEMs from 2019 grand sport with 4500 miles on them for a thousand dollars if your interested. Not sure where your located but I’m in northeast Arkansas.

That's a bit steep, but thanks for the offer.

:lurk:

Get a second set of wheels used on the forums and buy R888Rs on simpletire.com for like $1200 a set.

Thanks, I had a quick look there but my 17 GS runs 335/25/20 on the rears and I can't find R888Rs in that size.

DISCLAIMER: I’m not a tire expert. My experience working for a tire manufacturer was short, and not in a technical capacity. Take what I have to say with a huge grain of salt.

The differences between winter, all season, summer, and TRACK compounds comes down to primarily the compound and the tire design’s ability to handle HEAT*.

They all have a range of temps that they can operate at. The low end of the temp range govern grip, the high end of the temp range govern longevity. Under the temp range, and the rubber become hard, brittle, and offer the same kind of grip as hockey pucks on ice. Over the temp range, the rubber compound construct melts and disintegrates.

The general rule of thumb is, winter or winter rated tires operate best near freezing temperature. They offer much better grip than all the other categories at below freezing temps, but once you start to use them at or near summer temps, like 80 degrees ambient or above, the compound gets destroyed quick. All seasons are designed to offer grip from just below freezing to well into summer ambient temps, but they don’t do well in super high ambient temps nor do they hold up when you’re looking at tire temps of 180 degrees or above. Summer tires are designed to work best between 50 degrees to 200 degrees, but exceed that they’ll start to fall apart too. Track or r-comps can easily handle 240+ degree of heat that a high performance driving event may demand, but at 60 degrees ambient and cold tires grip level is heavily compromised.

So to your question about running all-seasons for track use? It won’t hurt, because they can still remain operational at higher temps. But like all things it’s a sliding scale. At 170-190 degrees you’re at or near the top end of operating temp for a set of all-seasons, while your typical summer tire may still have a decent margin of error and just coming into the upper 2/3rd if it’s operating range. At the top range of your tire’s operating range, the wear rate accelerates, so at the end of the day, depending on your typical on-track tire temp going to all-seasons not only compromise overall grip, but also shortens the life of the tire.

You know, like operating on winter tires during late spring when ambient temp is over 60 degrees with no snow in sight.

If you want tire life longevity, oddly enough running a compound with LESS grip isn’t going to extend its life, despite the typical all-season having 400 or higher UTQG rating vs the 200-ish of summer tires and 100 or less of track only r-comps. You’ll likely find the all-season tire will start to chunk and have large blocks of rubber missing from the outside sidewalk after a track day and dramatically shorten life.

Case in point. I took my wife’s diesel to a handful of track events a few years ago at Laguna Seca and Chuckwalla Valley Raceway. At the time her diese had fresh and new Continental all-seasons. After 4 track weekends and about 30,000 miles, those 500 UTQG rated all-seasons were showing cords on the outside shoulder.

She was not happy and wanted to bring a warranty claim against Continental. I had to talk her out of it.

On the flip side? My 80 wear r-comp has seen maybe about 10 track days (albeit on a car about 1,000lbs lighter compared to the diesel) and can probably go another 10 before they’re corded. In fact they’ll likely heat cycle out long before they WEAR out.

She’s forbidden me from taking the diese to the track. I don’t blame her.

You don't get 20" track wheels. 18 all around or 18/19

1) Don't run all seasons on the track. Sidewall and compound (and everything else) aren't made for it.

2) Run 18" wheels (18/19 if you're in a class that doesn't let you go more than negative 1"). Then run R888R or my preference, NT01.
I honestly think NT01/R888R last longer than MPSS because they don't overheat, but they're way cheaper. You can likely sell your track wheels for close to what you paid for them as they're not really a wear item. Or buy them used. You should be taking your wheels off to bleed fluid and change pads before each track day anyway.


C7, especially the wide bodies, have a very highly consumable cost. They're heavy with lots of power and huge tires. I think my brakes, tires, fluids and gas works out to about $400-$450 per hour of track time, and that doesn't include wear and tear on big ticket items like engine, trans, clutch, diff, etc. That's why I have my (track only) BRZ and Miata. They cost about $100/hr to run. The BRZ will pay for itself in a season or two (and I'll own a BRZ).

Thanks much. Since I'm running a GS C7 I assume it's best to keep the rears an inch larger than the fronts since that's how the car is configured? Or is 19 all round the way to go? (Would make it easier to pick up a set of 4 take-offs, rather than 2 @ 18 and 2 @ 19.)

Thanks so much for taking the time to fill us in on all that. Since I'm in FL temp is a real issue - and would be for the A/S as you point out.

Great advice, thanks. Love the extra set of (smaller) wheels with track tires idea. Getting a whole new car is a bit too hardcore for me - would miss the purr and power of the V8 and feel sad that my vette couldn't track like she's made for. I'll suck up the pricing pain to keep her tracking.

18s are far cheaper and more common. If you're not racing it in a class that requires 19s, I'd definitely go 18.

I'm not sure which I like driving better- the BRZ or the GS. I definitely learn more in the BRZ and it's definitely more challenging imo. I also like driving it because I'm not as worried about wrecking. If I total the BRZ (which would be one hell of a crash) it's $15k. Put the vette into the wall lightly and it might very well be a $60k total loss.

Economically:
There's about $300/hr difference between the two cars. Drive for 2 hours a track day and it's $600 per track day. Do a track day per month and it's $7200/year savings. You can get a GREAT Miata or BRZ for 2 year's worth of savings. You'll learn more, faster, and still have the GS for that once in a while track day. I got mine for $16k. Super duper clean and well built. It has every mod you can think of short of forced induction and a fuel cell. Coated headers, intake, exhaust, coilovers, camber kit, 8pt cage, halo seat, AP racing endurance brakes, 6pt harness, spare wheels and tires, all the gutted stuff (like airbags), outstanding engine oil and coolant cooling, carbon splitter + wing, diffuser, etc. You can get a hell of a track ready Miata or BRZ for $15k and under. I have both, but I like the BRZ better. 200hp+ mods is a great number for the track on a 2400lb car (2550 with cage and aero for me).

It was shocking how I couldn't afford NOT to get a dedicated track car! Also, it was shocking how much fun it was to drive.

My son got a miata the other day - and I'm embarrassed to say he got an automatic! Kids these days are klueless! Otherwise I could give that a spin!

Haha, miatas suck unless they're gutted, track prepped and you're running with other miatas. I can't imagine driving one on the road, especially an auto. Newer ones make reasonable (180) power, but the old ones like I have are brutally slow. I enter a 2500 straight away at 60mph and end it at 85 or so :lol:

[QUOTE=village idiot;1598859347]18s are far cheaper and more common. If you're not racing it in a class that requires 19s, I'd definitely go 18.

I'm not sure which I like driving better- the BRZ or the GS. I definitely learn more in the BRZ and it's definitely more challenging imo. I also like driving it because I'm not as worried about wrecking. If I total the BRZ (which would be one hell of a crash) it's $15k. Put the vette into the wall lightly and it might very well be a $60k total loss.

Economically:
There's about $300/hr difference between the two cars. Drive for 2 hours a track day and it's $600 per track day. Do a track day per month and it's $7200/year savings. You can get a GREAT Miata or BRZ for 2 year's worth of savings. You'll learn more, faster, and still have the GS for that once in a while track day. I got mine for $16k. Super duper clean and well built. It has every mod you can think of short of forced induction and a fuel cell. Coated headers, intake, exhaust, coilovers, camber kit, 8pt cage, halo seat, AP racing endurance brakes, 6pt harness, spare wheels and tires, all the gutted stuff (like airbags), outstanding engine oil and coolant cooling, carbon splitter + wing, diffuser, etc. You can get a hell of a track ready Miata or BRZ for $15k and under. I have both, but I like the BRZ better. 200hp+ mods is a great number for the track on a 2400lb car (2550 with cage and aero for me).



I have to chime in here.
I've got a C5 Z06 set up for the track.
I do about 30-40 track days per season in this car.
I run a 4 square set up: 285x30x18 Bridgestone RE71R
I like these a lot.
I used to trailer the car and then I ran Hoosier slicks, but now I drive it to and from.
The 71R's are pretty good in the rain as long as they have some tread left, otherwise you may as well be driving on Hoosier Slicks in the rain.
I've run 888's, Yokohama Adven A08's, but for me I like the RE71's best.
I like the stickiness of them which lasts till I'm down to the cord. Once I've got some cord peeking through here and there, I figure they're done.
I think the 888's lasted longer but I like the overall performance of the 71's. The Yokahama's were OK too, but again I like the 71's.

Regarding the BRZ, it's a great fun track car.
I'm an instructor and ride in a lot of cars and I was very impressed with the BRZ and it's Toyota cousin.
I think everyone should learn to drive in an under-powered well handling car. It will definitely make you a better driver.
I started with a 1.6 Miata which I still have and it's now my Spec Miata. I've had a supercharged Miata and a Ford powered v8 Miata putting down 335hp at the wheels.
The one I still have is the Spec. I've loaned it out to friends when their cars were broken and they all come in off the track with an expression of WOW is that thing fun to drive.
A few years back a guy I knew was looking at getting a Miata to race and replace his 700hp Mustang. He did get the Miata,. Soon afterwards I saw him at the track and asked how he liked it and what he thought about it compared to the Mustang. He said, he had no idea how shitty a driver he was. 700hp covers a lot of mistakes. He sold the Mustang.
When Paul Newman (you guys remember him) started racing he was in fairly powerful cars and he sucked. A very successful pro racer advised Newman that if he stuck with high powered cars he'd never improve. He was advised to get into low powered cars, and he did. Went to the Datsun B210. can't get much lower powered then that. He raced those very successfully for a long time before successfully moving up to more power.

Regarding the Automatic Miata. We had a 1.6 when they 1st came out and we still have 1.8 My wife refuses to this day to learn to drive a stick. We drove that thing all over the U.S. Only mod I did to that car was get a very very loud scary sounding horn which I transferred to the 1.8 Miata. And, yes it has no power compared to what's out there but it just forces you to be a better more aware driver.
My wife is now considering a Miata RF Automatic of course.

I always say the best mod I ever did to my C7 was getting a Miata. I dropped serious time when I started trying to get a 120hp miata around the track.

1. It's amazing how the c7 makes you feel like a super hero crossed with an F1 driver.
2. The car is so capable, you feel like you're an incredible driver because you're one of the fastest at the event. It's really amazing how many people don't realize how much the power and the car are masking their deficiencies. Then they'll hop in my Miata and be waayyyy off my pace.