Vote on the new cutout shape...
 

I am making a custom cutout for an upcoming cooling kit that we are currently testing. The kit will have the option to not cut, and use fans (which works surprisingly well) but there will still be people who want to do the cutout. Nothing currently on the market appeals enough for me to cut holes in my front bumper cover, so after asking others to please come up with something better, I finally threw in the towel and will give this deal a whirl myself...

i am creating a fiberglass mold relief of the c7 front end. This will work on all z06, grand sport, and stingrays. I am going to build on top of that mold, and then cut out around the perimeter, and it will sit right on the car, on the fiberglass for assessment. then I will have the piece 3D scanned, and in CAD, have the drivers side created as a perfect mirror object. Then I will have the molds created.

I may decide to sell this in the future. Just know, it is going to be a complex piece, with dive planes on each side (this was another goal of mine, and the dive planes, without a cutout, look bad IMO. So i realized the 2 should be symbiotic.

Below are some rough sketches, and then some other photos of the fiberglass progress last night and today.

If you have a sketch you think might look great, please submit it. Please include a dive plane, otherwise, i most likely will not consider it for my project :) But still cool to see other's ideas also.

Don't see your sketches

Bill

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...4068bd47d3.jpg

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I really like the idea of incorporating a vent into an ACR/ZL1 1LE style canard/dive plane

one thing I am sure of, I will make the carbon fiber or carbon flash colored material it is made out of... wrap around to the inner edge of the brake duct intake. It will match up seamlessly against the carbon flash brake duct lip. I realize on the stingrays, the grill is there, i will make a more trimmed part for the stingrays if we decide to produce and sell them.

By wrapping the material around, it makes it very difficult to notice it is an aftermarket piece... same on the dive plane, it will look just how GM does on the camaro zl1 1le.

And then the high side of the opening, i will have it come out like a sword/blade shape, so that once again, it does not just look like a half baked aftermarket duct slapped on a hundred thousand dollar car.

Thank you buddy, dont know how i didn't think of it sooner, probably because i pay no attention to camaros. I was literally searching for an existing dive plane to buy, to be able to use as a guide for what im making, and thats when i noticed the camaro's.

Had i paid attention to this idea sooner, i probably would have done this already, as of a year or 2 ago.

I like the 3rd and 4th picture from the top.

I agree with you, which is why i spent the most time on those myself... but i am not sure that I will do the wing across the middle. A lot of work... but we will see, maybe it will get easier as i get the hang of it. Mold off the car... and somehow the bad GM paint managed to stay on the bumper cover. Miracles.

Keep in mind, all the sketches, all of them should have 2 lines connecting to the brake duct location... as ive realized that is the way to do it... so you can also mix match them, and say you like the height of one, but like the brake duct location of the other. I am still debating how big or small i want the hole to be.

White places are still smooth, not as bad as they look. I was spooked to put resin directly onto the tape on the bumper before the first layer of glass was put down so i put the glass down first and added the resin on top of it. I dont need to make a perfect relief mold... so i did not care. I just need a bumper to be able to chop a hole in and add the clay... or as my friends call it, play-doh... Wishful thinking


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blue tape is just scraps and me being too lazy to pull it off before i took the pic.

My vote is for the ZL1 1LE style vent with canard. Might look good on the car.

Guess who is back, back again. And putting his money where his mouth is!


I think the all make the front end of the car look like it is smiling. BUT a 2d line ontop a 3d object is hard to get a true sense of how it will look in person.

Like this Camaro ?????.....

http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fo...3Fquality%3D85

yeah, similar to the camaro, that is the photo i have above, a close up of the camaro's intakes and dive plane. The intake hole will be much wider though.

I will draw up a more detailed idea over the mold soon, been a busy morning

Big consideration is how the dive planes roll back to the wheel wells, and how that interfaces with stg 2 and stg 3 aero

I agree with you. My thoughts have been, if a person is trying to cool their vette down and adding heat exchangers to the front... then they are obviously driving the car fast. If they are driving in a straight line, they probably are not overheating.. because there is no logical reason to go straight fast, endlessly, and even if there is, you wont be overheating... not enough that you would need to cut holes for the heat exchangers to get wind, the HX would work fine boxed in with the stock nose.

So, its logical, that the only way a person is going to need to cut holes in their front end, is if they, option 1 want to drive around curves fast on a road course, or option 2, they want to show off. The guys who want to show off, i could care less about their car's balance, they don't drive fast enough for it to matter.

So option 1 guys, roadcourse guys... currently, i see a lot of cars with the big wings on them, including the zr1 etc. I dont believe chevy has made a strong enough front splitter yet, that matches up with those big wings. So I think the rest is self explanatory, the dive planes, plus a splitter, will better balance the car from its current setups with large wings.

The dive planes, I am looking into having different stages, and have them where they can be swapped out on the fly, so a person could have 2 sets, 1 very aggressive that stick out far, or another set that dont stick out far. The wings will attach and detach from the opening in the nose. That is why i am building everything at once.

Realistically, i wanted dive planes more than i wanted a hole in the nose... but once i realized i could make the hole look better than anything currently on the market, i realized, it might not be a bad option to explore. It also gives structural re-enforcement to the dive planes from the buildup of the duct.

The long short of it is... the guys who need a hole in the nose for cooling... are the same guys who already need dive planes. So it all just makes too much sense not to do it this way.

as far as the cars smiling... i get what you are saying, but understand, dive planes are in the shape of a smile... so unless i have a hole go under the dive plane, towards the bottom of the car... the shapes are all going to be a smile in some way or another.

And point blank, im probably not going to have the hole go under the dive plane, it makes zero sense, ive lost my structure the dive plane needs to be held up by. So be happy the cars are happy :)

so, im wrestling with how big to make the opening. I'll give a couple teaser pieces of info to what we already have... we have setrab pro level thickness 12.2x12" CORE SURFACE AREA (not counting the brackets on the coolers, which have to be trimmed btw) black heat exchangers on each side, probably bigger height and width than anyone has done before while also keeping the brake ducts in tact. So with our current setup, if the opening was as big in the picture below, all you would see is black HX cooler on both sides. White lines represent where the surface is curling away from us. The top edge will be like a sword blade sticking out, so at this height, this sword is almost like a front bumper on the natural seam of the front bumper cover. The bottom front of the opening, toward the center of the car where it comes to a sharp point... that will recess downward early on, it will only be flush with the body work for an inch or so, and then will go downward and eventually wrap underneath where the white lines indicate. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...99cc926a99.png

color coordinating side to side features to see it more in 3d. Blue is opening of course.
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The bottom one will function best. Red will be my material, not car bumper cover
Objections? should i go back to smaller?

You have the opportunity here to not have it look like shit (like another vendor). I like what I see so far, GO MIKE!

Compliments from you and I mean a lot John, because we always tell the truth :) As i was doing this, i started thinking "maybe i should just make a whole new nose for the car" but then i realized it would be impossible to mold, so that made me feel more confident I am on the right track. This is going to be something that will bring the car more value at resale is my hope and goal im working toward.

Frustrating thing is when the big shops just come along and copy after i do all the hard work brainstorming. I'm surprised you dont like the other shops shapes. Square is a corvette theme :) I'll have to find the thread from a year ago where people were brainstorming and asking for other options, and one vendor kept reposting the photo of his cutout over and over.

People were like... "yeah... we saw it the first time." It was not even from another angle, just the same photo. SQUARE... SQUARE... SQUARE... HOW DO YOU LIKE MY SQUARE!? They have the money and have had the time, and an attitude that if you dont like their stuff, go pound sand, they aren't changing. So be it. I warned them, ignore me, and make me create, and I will become your competition. Its very simple.

Anyway, back to work, more drawings... Ive changed my mind a 1000 times on how to do it as I keep looking at it closer. For every 1 drawing i put up, i have 100 other variations in between. I keep checking the inside of the actual nose and seeing how all of this is going to line up and the ducts inside are going to work. Its going to be pretty cool when its done i think.

Tooling around with the idea of putting vertical planes on the inner verticals as well, by the brake ducts. Might be too busy. Putting the outer verticals to come out atop the dive planes will allow and easy way for me to lock the dive planes into place better. I think im out too wide with the verticals however. Looks a little "fangy" Also, Made the dive planes wider at the bottom, and more squared off.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7f25aa694e.png

Hardest part is going to be just to the left of the star. I have to have a piece where it joins from the top of the opening to the bottom of the opening. Might not seem like a big deal, but in real life, if it is just a laminated looking lip at the edge of the cars cut body work, people will know it is aftermarket and hate the look of it. I have some ideas, like a reverse vent. The top dive plane is as much to hide and distract people from looking at the vertical edge below it, as the dive plane is a functioning piece. If i can hide the vertical seam from most angles of perspective, using the dive planes, then it wont be the end of the world if it is ugly right there i guess. Reverse vent is my best idea thus far. I'll draw soon so you understand what im saying.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...b4279e254a.png

I know the wing on the top row is not for everyone. I am trying to figure out how to make this whole thing modular, so that the top and bottom are 2 pieces... so the top could be swapped for the one with the wing, or without.

The first kit will not have a wing on top, just the bottom. But been spending the day brainstorming on a clever way for this to all snug together and still be strong, and not fall off the car (priority number 1).

Im also looking for simple metal bracket makers in the jupiter west palm area of south florida... but i think I've got that figured out I hope.

We figured out a way to hang the oil coolers in the car, on both sides, without drilling a single hole or cutting the inside of the car at all. The other vendors might think this is impossible, or maybe they figured it out also, i haven't looked at their brackets. Time will tell. But im pretty excited i figured it out finally. This is important, because if the kit is removed, no one would ever know it was on the car. (gm voids warranties if you cool your oil or other fluids down... brilliant) I want to make this kit easy to install and easy to remove, and i think you guys will be mind blown once we reveal what we have and the cooling results.

Mike,
Thanks so very much for all your effort and research on this.

I look forward to a solution which conforms to your quote


I refuse to track my car until I have a reasonable solution... because I WILL go into "Limp" mode quickly, otherwise.

Thank you buddy for the kind words.

i give you my word we have it solved. I am not just blowing smoke or talking a big game.

The bracket that allows the HX to be hung on both sides of the car, right now it is just in paper form, but by early this coming week, it will be metal (and eventually carbon as an option for the real racers) and I will have a photo to show.

The other vendors MAY have a similar bracket for all that I know, I have not looked at their brackets, other than what I can see here online. I don't want to steal their thunder if they already thought of the way we figured out how to do it.

Hopefully they don't think I copied them if they do already have the "magic bracket" that locks everything into place with no drilling or cutting of anything.

The cutting that does need to occur is on a couple of the oil cooler's bracket tabs.

For reference, we are using the Setrab Pro Line, Single Pass, 6 series, 40 row, oil/fluid coolers. They are huge and they are thick. This will cool the oil... not the water. So there is not a double exchange taking place, so the Delta aka difference in temp is substantial and therefore it provides more heat Dissipation/Extraction from the car. We have installed them already into another car, but its bracket was not pretty and we did some cutting to the car. That is when i realized it is possible to do this without leaving a trace. And this bracket really is magic, you are going to literally laugh when you see how it goes in, and it is already mounted to the cooler.... you literally just hang it and tighten an already existing screw and it cant move and it is STRONG. Sounds impossible? no, its just MAGIC :)

I genuinely believe we will have the best oil cooling system for these cars, that currently exists, period. Here are some photos from tonight of us putting it on the car for mock-up... the oil cooler has to be trimmed which hopefully I can accomplish tomorrow. A Setrab specific molded shroud and fan can be attached to these coolers, and the nose of the car can remain sealed shut, and a car will still receive better cooling vs any other "no cut" solution on the market. Keep in mind, our design is modular. You could run both cheeks as the 6 series 40 row, just for engine oil alone, and there will be NO PRESSURE DROP within the motor or its bearings, that was my biggest goal. Then we have other places to put large HD coolers, that we have not revealed yet, but it will be called the "batwing" design... and it is 2 more coolers, in a location on the car no one has ventured yet. Any cooler in any of our modular setup, can be plugged into any cooling system in the car. We are making it so that everything is plug and play with the factory fittings and quick connects. And if and when we do decide to sell it, the price that we sell it, is probably going to have other vendors very unhappy with us.

We waited patiently long enough. We were mocked long enough. Now we came to play. I believe this will be the best cooling system for vettes, hands down. If anyone is about to pull the trigger on another kit... i highly advise you wait a week or 2 because you will regret your decision. I know I am biased... but seriously... the stats on the cooler we are using.. don't lie.. and we are using multiple to further cool the trans, the oil, and the blower fluid... but the blower fluid is the LEAST important one to cool, the engine oil is the most important to cool. Once it is cool, blower fluid temps remain at better lower levels.

Rather than get into a pissing match on data spreadsheets.. we intend to put our car on the track VS the competitors. Price tags of the kits disclosed. And go head to head and compare temps. We are confident we will win.

The bigger radiator and HX for blower coolant... those items don't need to be added. Ironically, hardcore racers are going to be asking if they can get smaller ones... to shave weight once they see what our kits do. Once the oil heat is kept in check, the water coolant is relieved of its duties and its temps fall. But as of right now, there is no company named yet, and we are not vendors here. This is all just hopes and dreams for now... I'm not promising anything ;) I'm not allowed to yet. If and when that changes, rest assured we will be vendors on this forum and several threads showing the several different things we have been testing, will all be released at once.


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the 640 on its side, leaves a couple inches of gap between it and the bottom of the car, so if you do hit a driveway or run over something and your nose does a big flex upward, the cooler will not hit. This is why we are putting it on its side as it is taller than it is wide... as long as the tabs are cut off and altered, which we are doing.

The highlighted row is the cooler we are using on both sides of the car. Notice the Horse Power rating for EACH cooler. I am not exagerating when I say, that with our Batwing kit and these 2 coolers, we have 2,000 HP worth of cooling capability at our disposal. And unlike the existing vendors out there, we dont stack our coolers... every cooler gets its own cold fresh air. This matters.

2 of these coolers cooling engine oil only... and I hate to think how cold the oil would remain, because I have already witnessed the impact that 1 can do, and I personally will be running 1 engine oil and 1 transmission cooler on my car... because I already know how well the 1 cooler solves the problem. The thermostatic switches allow the oil to warm up before the oil is directed through 1 or more of these coolers. Once oil temps are put in check.. everything else in the engine, and the blower fluid, is fine.

We brought up the thermostatic oil fitting here on the forum a year ago, and vendors adopted it. But they have still not done things the way we plan to do them. Some are still plumbing things in ways and orienting oil coolers in ways we do not approve of. Some are still asking their customer to pay to attack water temps before oil temps. But our days of bickering with them are over. We will make the best setup for ourselves, and then maybe sell it for those who agree with us :)

And those vendors who claim we have no good ideas since they do tests and we dont? .. They will get their "tests" soon enough. And it will be our car vs theirs on a track, same speed, same shift points, same day, same ambient temps. This is not rocket science. How it has taken this long for our solutions to be implemented, I am not sure. But we are almost there.


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The reason I abandoned the chin mounted double forward facing oil cooler, is not that it does not work, it is the problem that it requires cutting of the tray that holds the flat laying oil cooler.

I will still offer that to people willing to cut their cars... but once I realized we can just add these and attach big fans to them, and leave all the stock coolers and tray alone... I realized this just made more sense, and ease of install is a 2 instead of an 8 out of 10, as there is no cutting and nothing to mess up on.

The hardest part of the install will be taking the nose off the car. Literally.

These brackets are magic :)

Had someone PM me asking how we plan to insert an additional trans cooler in the front of the car without cutting the trans hard lines, kind of calling me out a bit, but at least smart enough to give me the benefit of the doubt at this point, so he did so in a private message. He also knew how impossible it is to obtain GM 1/2 inch transmission male, and especially female, quick connect ports. (edit: he says he was not calling me out, he was just aware that if I had the solution, I probably did not want others to know. Nah, we don't mind. Everyone will know soon enough anyway when they are installing them on their own cars) :cheers:

A little background...

For those of you who don't know, manufacturers like GM have 1/2 inch transmission hard line for their transmission coolers in the z06 and other A8 vettes with the coolers in the front chin. Take a stroll on the internet or your local GM parts department, and see if you can get the female port to this quick connect used throughout our cars. I'll save you the month of searching... the answer is no, you cannot. GM does not want the aftermarket community to be able to enter their stock cooling circuit without detection, they want you to cut a line so that they know you altered their car so they can void your warranty. Thus, they dont sell these fittings to the general public. So how does one plug into the factory transmission lines without cutting anything?

Bravo to the Ohio oil cooler boys for figuring this one out to make installation of the transmission coolers a breeze...

You just have to know where to enter... Sorry GM :( Better luck next time



Now you guys understand why the only thing we have left to figure out is holes in the front fascia of the car. We don't want you all going out and cutting squares in the front of your cars. Overheating in a corvette, and expensive kits to solve it... are history.

Dont buy bigger radiators heavier radiators. Dont buy bigger heavier blower HX in front of the radiator... Just wait a week or 2. I promise. Save your money and the weight. There is a better way, that pound for pound, dollar for BTU extracted and evacuated, cools things down beyond what other vendors may want you to know is possible.

And if you want an automatic, buy it... you wont be able to come within 40 degrees of overheating it with what we have as our stage 1 kit, i promise you.

the Stage 2 we figured out with the batwing... you'll be as cool on a road course as you currently are driving down the highway on a summer day with the stock cooling system.

Had to give the inside layer a thin coat of resin where the fiber was white and dry... I've decided it is probably wise to make the inverse mold of this so that i have the faux front end of the car, so that I can mock up the ducting and everything on a fake front end, and will cut the first holes in it for the ducts, instead of in a real bumper. Its been very humid in west palm, so things are taking a while to harden up. I will have to sand the inside of this again, and try to remove the high spots from the newly placed resin.

I also did a bit of reinforcement of the thin edges by the brake duct area. I have the right shape on the inside of the mold where it matters, the outside is where i added strength, that was done after this photo. The blue tape are 2 pieces that i must have put on AFTER i coated the rest of the tape with anti stick.... as these 2 pieces of tape are literally absorbed into the resin/mold.

I still think its a miracle no paint came up with the mold when i pulled it off the front end.. it took me a good hour to pry it away from the nose, bit by bit... without cracking the mold around the brake duct area.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...cfb282a393.jpg

Anything is going to look better than a square :)

This is gaining some good traction. Will be watching closely.

THank you for your support.

So, i should have mentioned, the car that has the other brackets on it, it has a slightly smaller cooler. My gut was that we could put a bigger cooler, and make it work. Luckily I was right. The irony is, on the other bracket on the other car, it is a total hack job compared to how this kit on this cooler is going to work.

The paper mock up bracket that I made last night, notice the CURL it has on its far side. That curl attaches to the car's existing panel. That existing panel is in a triangle shape if looking from above.

The point is, that curl, once made out of metal or carbon, can be put around the car's flat panel/beam under the headlight, if started to the left side. Then once it is around the panel, it can be slid to the right. As it slides to the right, the panel's triangle shape becomes larger, and the curl ends up tightening against the panel. THe oil cooler cut out on the bracket tab that I have pictured below, does the rest of the work. That notch, afixed to the backet and against the cars flat panel, will not let the cooler move in any other vector of motion that the curl does not already have covered. Curl keeps the cooler from moving towards front of the car. Notch out of the oil cooler keeps it from moving up, down, or towards the back of the car. Curl keeps it from moving to the right. THe only thing left to solve is movement back to the left. Coindidentally, the car has a small hole already drilled on this panel where the electrical connections hang from normally. THis hole can have a simple bolt come down through the bracket, and line up with the hole. This now keeps the bracket from moving to the left. Meanwhile, the left side of the bracket and left side of oil cooler is also going to hang from the top side of the connection point where you see the screw on the left side by my left hand.

The bottom of the cooler will be mounted in another bizarre way, but we can already tell it is going to be stronger than the other bracket setup we had with the smaller cooler. Its one of those thigns you will have to feel for yourself to believe. But the point of all this is, if the bracket is already attached to the cooler, the cooler can literally be hung in the car in literally under 60 seconds, which will include backing out the screw on the left side, and reinstalling that screw and putting in the key bolt which will keep the bracket from moving back to the left. The curl and the oil cooler itself do the rest of the work.

I apologize about the demel cut out tab... i was getting bored waiting for the machine shop tomorrow, and went ahead and cut it out now to make some progress. I will keep this ugly one for my car. If we make them for other people eventually, then theirs will look better of course, and be resealed in black :)
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the cooler coming right up to the plane snug also makes it so that no air can pass above the top. The bottom left and right are the next to solve. The fan shroud makes this all a moot point. If a person does not do the fan, and instead does the cutouts in the front bumper, then we will work to have perfect ducting that mandates air only goes to the cooler, as we will have a duct wall for the left, right and bottom sides.

EDIT: i should note, once the Hang/Curl bracket is made, the cooler cut out on the right will accommodate the bracket's thickness as well, so the cooler will be scratching on on the bracket, not your car's panel. This provides more strength as well obviously

I should also note, for those of you who think you are going to build this yourself and save a few bucks... don't do it :) you wont save a few bucks. You have no idea how reasonably priced these will be if we end up doing a group buy. If that time comes, the price we get the oil coolers for, will be low enough, that I can sell to you for the same amount you could source everything yourself... but with out the headache.

Give me a week :)

We will still have to remove the front bumper/fascia for install, right ?

Yeah, that will be the hardest part of the install, and its not hard, just removes some screws and know where to pull first to get the bumper to unhook. I'll make a video explaining it all. I put my car up on wood blocks to prove a point, this can be done in a person's driveway without a lift. All they need are some ramps or a jack and 2 dollars worth of wood from home depot.

This will also be very modular and versatile in the regard that... lets say you run the drivers side cooler for trans cooling, and the passenger side for engine oil. Then lets say your trans temps are of no concern to you and you want to cool down your blower fluid instead. The same cooler in the drivers side that was a trans cooler, can be turned into the additional blower cooler with just a swap of hoses, and the other hoses go on the shelf and wait for you to change your mind back again, or visa versa. The hoses and fittings to make any cooler at any location, cool any fluid, will be already ready to be ordered and shipped should we decide to become a vendor.

People may THINK they will never change what the coolers are used for... but as more coolers are introduced like the "batwing" concept... then people might say, okay, i want my oil all going through the batwing only, and I want the water from my blower going through the passenger side cheek, and I want my drivers side cooler to be an extra trans cooler. (and that car, in that configuration, i am going to go out on a limb and say, it will weight less, and out-cool, any car with any cooling kit on the market. Real head to head tests will tell in time)

A person can literally start out with 1 cooler, on one side, and cool down just their oil or blower fluid, and use a fan since you don't want just one cheek cut. Or maybe you cut both, and you don't care that the other side is empty. I don't know, your car.

But the days of regretting buying one kit, and having to remove it to install a "better kit" are over. Except for the kits everyone have to remove to install this one perhaps :)

And we aren't worried about being beat because we are stuffing the biggest, highest quality coolers, in each location. Setrab is the top of the line cooler in the marketplace. We could go with cheaper stuff, but its a vette, why not have the best? These Setrabs are super nice units. It pained me to make that cut into the tab :)

And the people who have existing kits from other vendors, aside from regretting the cutout shapes in their bumpers... they are going to realize that those kits actually added more weight to their cars than needed, along with ruining their stock radiator shroud/cowl and front tray which were all modded, and radiators and blower HX replaced, with aftermarket, so their warranties are gone, and those are both items that don't need to be replaced, so it boils down to... they burned money and their warranty is gone and their race car weighs more as a result... all in one sitting.

So, in the back of their mind, they are going to be jealous, because at any given moment, yours can be removed by you in your driveway in a couple hours time, without a trace.... should your engine be one of the 1 percent'ers that throw a rod or drop a valve while you are racing around the track or just down the road.

Its your car and your life, not suggesting anyone do this... but lets be real... no chevy store is going to be able to detect any of our kits were ever on the car, after they have been removed. We are going the extra mile that no one else cares to... while also providing the biggest and best coolers, in the places they will see airflow and make the biggest impacts.

Drag racers are going to benefit as well... we will have it where they can circulate blower fluid through their stock cooler or the stock cooler and our aux cheek cooler, while their car is shut off, and the fan will be running on the cheek cooler while they are sitting there with the car off in the staging lanes, between runs, via an electrical switch.

Same can be done for the oil... and that's why i have the other thread going where i request to see the inside of the dry sump tank again, because my memory is fading, and I don't want to take mine out of my car just to see it. There is a way to circulate and cool the oil with the car off. Time will tell if the same concept can be used while the car is at full go on a road course to cool the oil. Maybe, maybe not. But our normal kit configuration works on the road course, no problem.

Here is another idea for your cutout. No dive fins shown. Just the opening.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...39efd481d3.jpg

I like it. Would you want it to have the fins?

Here is the problem i ran into as i got down to the nitty gritty... I personally don't know of a good way to make the left edge of that cutout... look decent. Its just going to be a cheap looking laminated lip around that shape. The reason im going all the way to the brake duct with the other shapes, is so I can wrap around the lamination back against the brake duct intake where its not visible. It makes it look more factory that way in my opinion. Believe it or not, i have the same shape you have, drawn up here at home... but what i just said was my biggest reservation. Granted, i could run the lamination across from that shape you have there, over to the brake duct... but at that point... i figure... i may as well open it up and have wind hitting the giant Setrab cooler that will be back there.

Its been a tug of war for sure.

The good news is, the fans are not that expensive, and they still have use for people who like to drag race, even if the opening is there, drag racers will still use fans in the staging lanes behind the coolers, pulling on the cooler from the back side....

the point to all that was... you or anyone else can buy the coolers, install them, run the fan, see the results... and you may realize you dont need to cut the car.... the fans and no cutting with these setrabs is a great solution. Everyone is programmed into thinking they have to buy 4 HX and a new radiator to cool their cars down... one of these setrabs and a fan does wonders if attacking the oil directly.

So, my point is... if you dont like my first iteration of the front end cut outs... no worries or hurry... and it wont just be me coming out with more ideas, it will be the whole community.

This is all going to be like legos... just stack different ideas from different people on top of each other to make a unique car.

I just got sick of arguing with people who think completely differently than I do. Heaven forbid they copy me at this point. I think they realize they are in a bad spot now.... especially with the documentary Byers is about to release about his life and vettes :)

Yeah I would want the fin on the bottom at least. Main thing I was interested in was a little more square on the lower right side of the opening, but it depends on shape of fin. I think the fin could go over top of the opening.

So, another tradeoff to the fin going over the opening is... on the back side of the fin, is vacuum. So, air that comes in one side of the opening, gets sucked out of the other side.

Obviously some will still go through the cooler, but just realize, there is a giant vacuum sucking pressure out of the chamber we want the pressure to exist in. Plus remember, the coolers are tilted back like an arrow, so they aren't eating the wind square. So if you have that vacuum there, it allows the air to kind of bounce off the cooler and go right back out the side, without passing through the cooler.

Just little things to think about

I'm still trying to figure out a way to build the wings so that they can all be swapped... and you can put different wings on the one opening... one that does not stick out wide and maybe is only on the bottom, and one that is thicker and sticks out the side more, etc.

Coming up with the mounting/joining mechanisms and shapes is the hard part now.

I need to consult an old school furniture builder or something

My first design will not be this busy, it will be simple. But what I am doing right now is just brainstorming and getting feedback... the aftermarket community and all these car show people and customization... I'm brainstorming how to have this like legos where people can make custom parts for the base kit... and obviously we can have different options for people to buy. Granted, these colors used in this drawing are hideous, but they are to help understand which competent is which. On my black car, this will all be carbon flash or black. Maybe some carbon fiber but doubtful. I will probably have the top edge be lower where it meets the brake duct. Its ironic, as i toil with the utility, i keep coming with a shape by the brake duct that is almost identical to the zr1's vertical in that same area.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...ec4254c417.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...a31bd055c3.png

Fresh angle. This car has better lighting. Try to imagine the holes missing and cut out.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...814577dd3d.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...db63fb3077.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...612f3ec3d4.png


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...196ebd9c67.png

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...3610536440.png
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6ca7aecfe4.png
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i cant do the top dive planes unless the top edge of the cutout gets up to the natural seam of the nose by its last 3 or 4 inches of length. To tilt that up, makes the car look like it is smiling again.

Edit:

Or i can make the top edge molding get wider as it goes across, and i can solve it that way...


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6f36606fd5.png

Top view of only the top molding... not the opening. Second photo is to try to visualize a top mounted dive planehttps://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...78cd9836ee.png
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...094a2741b5.png

I'm liking these two the most right now. Mainly because the shape on the inside matches the factory grill shape. Maybe less pointy and smiley on the outer edge.

What about upside down smile? Or maybe maintain the chevron shape on the outside just like the inside of the cutout.

Also how is the air existing once it goes through the coolers? Downward?

The stock vehicle has a small opening at the back of that cavity, and toward the center of the car, toward the bottom.

I am thinking about running a shroud on the back of the cooler, and having it funnel down to a round hose and have that hose exit though the opening... but at the same token, i think the air will do that on its own anyway. The problem with having any shape but a smile, kills the dive plane idea to some degree. I could do rectangles more than the smile, but anything like a reverse smile, wont work with dive planes. DJnice's idea might work with the dive planes. I am still waiting on resin to dry, I must not have mixed it well enough with enough hardener... so im playing the hurry up and wait game, right now. Ive been keeping myself busy on other tasks instead.

another busy day, got some more glass work done, starting to make the inverse of the mold I currently have done, which will be the faux front end of the car, so it will be drying overnight, and I will do another layer of glass on it tomorrow.

Also went to a few bracket fabricators today. Everyone is swamped as it is busy season in south florida. Long story short, they want about 100-200 for the first bracket made, and no one could guarantee what the bracket would cost after that. Keep in mind, that would be the price on each side, so potentially 400 bucks. I am trying to keep the cost on this kit low for everyone if we do decide to market it, and conveniently, one of the fabricators slipped up and told me the metal bending machine is on sale at harbor freight.... so that was an easy choice. 70 bucks later... ill make my own brackets starting tomorrow.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...5322f75fa7.jpg

while talking to the fab shops the past 2 days may have been a waste of time at first glance, I learned a lot on techniques as they described the dilemmas of how I want the bracket bent. The last fabricator i was with today, brought up the same problems, but i brainstormed a way to solve it so it can all be made of one piece and no welding needed. He was the one who pointed out I would want to use a smaller metal bending brake than he had, to accomplish the idea I thought up, so it all ended up working out for the best.

Just noticed your thread about this - pretty interested to see what you come up with. I have the LG Motorsports cooling kit sitting around, which I haven't installed yet - once I get all those misfire problems sorted out I was going to look into doing it, but I don't love the appearance of the vents so your custom bumper would be a pretty nice change. Since the kit is basically just intercoolers and radiators, do you think it'd be feasible to fit it behind one of your bumpers when you finish the design?

yeah, It will fit. i have been getting a notable amount of PM's from people who have the cutouts installed already, from various vendors, and they are asking if I could please make my cutouts at least as big as their existing ones, so that they can remove those, cut bigger holes in their bumper, and install mine.

i have no problem with this. I will sell them a-la-carte if and when we become a vendor. The irony is, when Byers tried to call too obtain the cutouts from 3 different vendors, all 3 of those vendors said they would not sell their cutouts unless the person bought their cooling kit also. We were going to get the cutouts shapes and sizes so we could see if it was feasible to make our cutout at least as large as theirs were, so people could make the swap to ours. That plan was shot down. But, we can see their shapes and sizes from photos tho, so all it did was save us money, and kept the other vendors from making a few extra bucks last week from us.

I just can't help but chuckle at the irony that is going to occur. Lets just say I have my predictions... about vendors all the sudden wanting to sell their cutouts a-la-carte also... but by the time they do, no one may be wanting to buy :)

More progress today, obtained some flat aluminum sheet metal to see if im capable of building one of these brackets on my own...

Put a layer of fiberglass down on the mold around the brake duct area to strengthen it on the faux front end, need to go buy more resin now.

And here is a close up of the front most oil line on the oil sump system. Notice, it is larger than 3/4 OD, it is even larger than 7/8 OD in spots. Brainstorming all the possibilities to tie into this line, so that you can return your car to factory quickly, should you ever choose to do so. Met with a couple machine shops, looking at the possibility of making the female port blocks for these hose ends to bolt into, that would convert to AN thread and AN-12 hose.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...2539975fe0.jpg
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So your tapping into the return line from the oil pan to the tank? How is the oil being added back to the system after the coolers?

im not sure i fully follow what you are asking... if the cooler is between the engine and the tank, and the oil exits the engine to the cooler, and then exists the cooler and goes to the tank as it should, but is tremendously cooler now... what would the problem be?

More oil needs to be added to the system in general, to fill the volume of the cooler and the run of the extra hose length, but other than that, there is no problem.

before we dive too deep into this discussion, i have a whole thread about this topic of why I am tying in here, and we have already tested it and it works fine.

We think the reason no one else has done it yet, is because tying into this line in a PITA, as GM intended for it to be to keep someone from doing exactly what im doing right now. Or the DIY home mechanic and/or vendor, makes the mistake of thinking they are going to remove the "oil cooling brick" and put the "oil cooler somewhere far away from the CAT, and make the car better than GM knew how to!" More on this in a moment...)

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uto-trans.html

Not only does a front mounted remote oil cooler setup with hoses, that tie into the "oil heat exchanger block location" under the car's engine, drop the engine's oil pressure once the person gets up to higher operating temps on a road course... (and dropping pressure is worse for an engine bearings than increasing heat 9 times out of 10)

(and please notice i called it a "heat exchanger block/brick" and not an "oil cooler block/brick" like most vendors on this forum seem to enjoy making the mistake of doing... GM's purpose for this brick is to bring the temp of the oil UP to safe temps, using the coolant, which heats up the fastest, on cold starts. Thus GM was not dumb when they put it right next to the CAT, most people are not racers. 99% of vette owners don't overheat their cars, they drive them to their office or to the golf course, 10 miles down the road, and heating up 10 quarts of oil to 170 degrees quickly, when the person is doing the speed limit, is a challenge to say the least.)

... not only does that setup drop the oil pressure, removing that block and tying in there for the hoses to the oil cooler, it also dead ends the flow path of the engine coolant water flowing through that heat exchanger. So I have NO desire to tie in and remove that brick. Zero. That block under the engine has purposes that everyone else is happy to ignore it seems. And when you have an oil cooler as big as the Setrab we are installing, capable of cooling 600HP worth of engine oil per unit of time... you need HELP getting your oil up to temp on cold starts... and that is what that brick, that everyone else is "so cleverly removing" is for. Removing it is the very sub par way of doing it, and that is me putting it kindly.

A thermostatic switch valve can still be used, out on this hose from the engine to the Sump Tank. For a dedicated racer who trailers his car to the track and never drives it down the road for 10 mile runs to the grocery, he needs not waste time with the thermo switch valve. For the rest of the population, they probably want a switch :)

OP - you in Florida?

For some reason I was thinking you might be.

If you are, there is a vette enthusiast from Fla that holds a good bit of aerodynamics knowledge. You might run your dive plane ideas past him/he could have some reasoned suggestions based on aero.

Let me know if you're interested, and I'll PM his name.

Byers understands aerodynamics very well, to the point Lockheed was trying to hire him at one point while he was still in college. I'm always up to meet and talk to people, but he and I study the real race cars like its our job, which have had extensive wind tunnel testing, and we have a pretty good grasp what works and why it works, at this point.

Byers grandfather was also world champion hydroplane boat racer and met the president at the white house to receive the "presidents cup trophy"... and they own a bunch of dealerships, and are all a bunch of Ricky Bobbys... and mess with aircraft as well. Aero matters at 150+mph on the water, or else you die, as 3/4 the people he raced against, did, since the boats were open cockpit in 60's and 70's. Darwinism. They understand aero pretty well.

:thumbs:

BTW - like your idea, and think it'll work.

Thanks for your support buddy, coming along, slowly but surely.

Another coat almost dry... I will sand it again in the morning, and add yet another coat. I want this thing to be strong and keep its shape so i dont have to be fragile with it when we start building onto it.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...0e994955e5.jpg

so... we all know about the thermostatic valves by now, and how they take the oil one way when the car is cold, and another way when the car is hot.

Here is the problem, these c7z's move a lot of oil. I have not been a fan of how small the flow passages are through the thermostatic valves that are currently on the market.

Sure, they work, and sure, we could use them, but I am trying to see if there is a better way. Enter: the brainstorming session on the Normally Open stainless solenoid valve 12v:
https://www.electricsolenoidvalves.c...normally-open/

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...59c81ddf60.png


The plan here is to have 2 large Y fittings, one upstream and one downstream of this valve.

The oil can go around the valve, but to do so, it must go through the front mount oil cooler. When the valve is open (which it normally is) the oil just goes through the valve as the valve is the path of least resistance, from the engine, straight back to the dry sump tank on passenger side.

When the valve is closed, the oil has to go through the cooler. Only when the valve is closed, would the oil take this more resistant path through the first Y fitting and through the oil cooler..

The purpose of all of this is to use fittings that are internally large in diameter, so that the dry sump scavenger pump is not having to do anything out of the ordinary, moving this oil.

There would be a thermo switch plugged into the oil line, upstream of the switch, and when it detects the oil is up to 180F or 200 degrees F coming out of the engine, then the solenoid is provided power and is forced closed. (we could keep the oil on these cars right at 180F I believe)

All that said, my biggest hesitation is the max temp that the manufacturer of this valve says it is allowed to see. 250F. Granted, we can stay below that as long as the thermo switch does its job, and the oil cooler will definitely bring the temps back down into check. But, we are getting close to the limits for sure.

I plan to keep searching for a higher temp valve, i have not looked for very long. But, if my memory serves me well, they become very expensive when they are capable of holding higher temps.

solonoid valves
 

Mike I am sure you already looked but have you considered Parker, they make a huge selection of valves and they may have special purpose valves not listed. Contact their tech support and they may be able to help, and if not they may know who can.

that name rings a bell, that is the brand i used to use for another application. Thank you for the heads up. I am also throwing this out there, in hopes someone knows of an even better valve I could use

(a bit more compact also if possible for packaging under the car.)

so... no one makes the shroud for the fan for the 640 oil cooler, only the 634 oil cooler, which is slightly smaller of a cooler by 6 rows. So I am having to convert a 634 shroud to work on a 640. Frankly, a 634 would cool the car down fine as well, but its just the principle in my book, if I can fit the bigger cooler in there, why wouldn't I? :)

Since no exciting pictures tonight, I figure I will finally explain the secret I have known all along on why the vendors who are cooling blower fluid and radiator fluid, were doomed by the law of diminishing returns, and why oil coolers have massive impacts.

It all comes down to "temp delta" and also "flow rate". The 2019 zr1 has double the flow rate of fluid through the blower. It may be going the same speed as the z06's fluid, but it is 2x the amount of cool fluid, going through the blower, at any given moment.

The z06 only has 1 entrance and exit to the blower. The reason the law of diminishing returns plagues the LT4 blower fluid, and cooling the engine oil with that fluid is easiest explained with the following example...

Lets say the blower fluid is at 160 degrees after it passes through the blower, and lets say it is bringing the boosted air's temp down as well as the engine temp (which it does do), then the blower fluid goes through a front air HX. Lets say it is 90 degrees outside. The blower fluid cant be cooled below 90F by 90F air. It will always be higher than 90F. The delta from 90F to 160F is 70F delta. The greater the delta, the more heat that is extracted from the blower fluid while in the HX. So with the stock HX, lets say the blower fluid is taken to 120F, and then it returns to the blower, where it cools the boosted air and the engine and thus the oil... and then it goes around its loop again.

now lets say I install 2 huge extra air to water intercoolers in the front of the car. How exciting. All that those can do is bring my blower fluid down to, lets say in a perfect world, 90F. My delta is only 30F better. Meanwhile, since it is a double exchange, i wont get 30F lower engine oil temps, i will get something less. So at the end of the day, no matter how many coolers i attach to the front of a z06, to cool its blower fluid, it will always still overheat unless i attack the heat in other ways.

The second way is the radiator. Okay, same concepts as above still apply. Double exchange from air to water to oil... and the water to oil transfer is through thick engine block metal, so there are effectively 2, if not 3 exchanges, and thus the delta's are all cut in halves or thirds, which is why double and triple exchanges are not as efficient as single exchange through thin HX passages.

Third way is the engine oil itself cooled by the air, in a single exchange of heat. Now look what happens, 270F oil that is about to overheat, passes through a HX at the front of the car. My delta is 180F down to 90F ambient air outside. This is a very big deal, and this is going to extract a LOT of heat from the system. Now that my engine oil is put into check into the low 200's, my blower fluid is not being heated up as much each cycle through the engine, nor is my radiator fluid.

So, the irony here, one of the vendors finally flashed an oil cooler this past year, that is a setrab, and mounts in the front of the car, and it is 10 rows tall and about 20 inches long. This is HALF the amount of cooling surface area as the 1 setrab I put in the cheek of the car which is 12 inches wide and 40 rows tall (over double the size). The reason i find this ironic is because this 1 cooler shown and sold by this vendor, was able to bring their oil temps down 60 degrees, plus the other fluid temps in and around the engine fell also, and in 90-100 degree weather. (I praised them for selling this kit btw, it put them ahead of everyone else)

So, the irony is, if the cars overheat around 300 degrees, and that vendor can keep it down to around 240 degrees with a tiny oil cooler while doing serious track duty in high ambient temps, and thus this example is a 60 degree cooling factor. Common sense would be to go ahead and add a larger oil cooler. By doubling the oil cooler size and BTU rating, i wont exactly DOUBLE the amount of engine oil cooling, as the delta shrinks relative to ambient temps outside the cooler the oil gets (law of diminishing returns), but it is common sense that we could cool a car's oil down 100 degrees from 300 to 200, still while on a 90-100 degree day.

Tests will show this soon, and testing with a slightly smaller cooler has already shown us this is the case, we are in the ballpark of what is mentioned above.

And so that is why we are doing what we are doing. We may only cool the car down 60 degrees by using a fan and not cutting the car, but keep in mind, our heat does not continue back to the radiator and the blower HX. Our heat is exhausted in ways that do not negatively affect the other HX in the vehicle. Another reason our car is going to run very cool.

And keep in mind, we still have the other cheek of the car to then equip with another cooler and another fan, without making a single cut to the face of the car. or we can open the fascia up, and have even further improvements.

But the point im getting at is... there is no need to spend 4+ thousand dollars to cool down one of these cars.

A cost effective solution is right around the corner. Leave your stock radiator and blower HX alone, they are fine. You will see soon.

Mike,
On the no cut solution....

Why dont you not even bother with a thermostatic valve on the fluid oil itself? Run the oil full time through the cheek cooler., then the fan on/off for the cooler based on oil temp. There are probes you can put into the cooler that will measure its temperature and command the fan on and off. Its a much simpler solution in terms of complexity and cost.


This wouldnt work if you are cutting the bumper cover for airflow, but honestly, if what you are discovering is correct, then theres no need for a bumper cut.

solonoid valve
 

Mike I have not dealt with Parker for some time since retiring but I seem to remember the full name was Parker Hannifin. With all the consolidation and buy outs who knows what the name is now. They were really big in the industry 10 + years ago.

That is an option, and especially for the track rat who rarely drives it on the street... but even with the fan off, through one of these 12x12 pro thickness oil coolers, i promise you will have serious trouble getting your oil up to temp if you find yourself just jumping in the car for 10 min to run to a restaurant or to the grocery or country club.

The nice thing is, we will make everything a-la-carte, and allow people to build the kits how they want them, should we decide to start selling these.

The other issue is cold ambient temps, if someone starts their car during winter time. I don't know if I want my oil having to go through a cooler at startup. If the person lives in south florida or texas or arizona where it does not get cold often... then it may make more sense.

People can build it however they want, but I want to make sure we at least offer a "no compromise" system that can be daily driven in alaska one second, and then keep a car the coolest it can be kept on a 120F degree day in the arizona desert on a race track... without them having to so much as pop their hood.

This is how WE do things on our personal cars where applicable, so they just work all the time, no matter where we go, no drama.

I emailed one of their distributors yesterday via a website portal, and have not heart back yet.

Without airflow across the cooler fins, heat drop is going to be negligible

the air does circulate in there, it does not stay hot in there for long once a person is moving. I will demonstrate what the system does with all the oil passing through the cooler with the fan off. I just know from experience, especially in colder climates, the cooler has an impact.

And again, i want you to think what happens if someone starts their car when it is below freezing outside, and that oil HAS to pass through the cooler to get back to the dry sump tank, being pushed by the scavenger pump in the pan, which normally only has to push oil up a hose that is literally larger than AN-12 hose.

You are adding a restriction to the system for sure on cold starts. Might be fine, but I am not a fan of just shrugging things off as "yeah, its fine" when people's engines and my own are on the line.

The question was, "do you have a solenoid valve that can withstand up to 280F degrees, and is simply open or shut, and is 12v, and 3/4 or 1" in ID.

And we get this as a response..https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...dcfca92750.png

Had some setbacks with the person who convinced me they could build the bracket... theirs did not work so i spent the entire evening bending metal around myself. It is a tricky location because one can not trace things from above and measure easily. I decided to do things the cave man way, and do trial and error, as I trimmed things, and eye-balled them, and then trimmed some more.

This bracket is ugly as hell, i realize, but it fits snug, and everything lines up. Tomorrow, I will drill a hole in the back tab, and put that bolt in to secure the bracket on the rear tab. I will take this prototype bracket back to the experts, and let them brainstorm how we will make it in the simplest fashion possible. I have my own ideas now. The key is having the right shape and length hard metal blocks and rails, to be able to vice different parts of this bracket, and bend it around easily (which i did not have tonight)

I believe I could get the proper supplies to make them myself, but I am still up for ideas from the experts so that I do not overlook anything.

Instead of doing the hook underneath, i decided to take advantage of one of the bolts. I might do both bolts on the final draft, but once you feel it, you will see there is no need to use both bolts. I don't want people having to mess with the nut behind the bolt, etc.

Tomorrow I will also attach the puller fan to the rear of the cooler, and see how that looks/fits. Once everything is bolted in, I will put the nose of the car back on, just to double check it all fits, but im 99% sure its fine and plenty of space. The way I hung it, i did not utilize the cut out notch in the cooler. Utilizing the cut out causes the cooler to face more square into the wind. But due to the technical difficulties on the bracket, I decided to keep it simple on this first try and have everything line up square on this first round.

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on the top left of the cooler, the bracket is going to curl up around backwards, and hang on top of that headlight frame piece and be secured by that screw from above. I meant to build it that way, but it was pretty late last night, and accidentally cut the material for the tab, right off.

I'm most likely going to make the cooler mount bracket out of carbon fiber. I am going to meet with a guy who molds carbon for a living, just to get his 2 cents, but I feel like it will actually be the simplest way moving forward, and also keep weight down and add a lot of value to the potential kit. The aluminum bracket I made last night, will allow me to mock up a mold out of fiberglass, which will in turn be used to make the carbon piece bracket.

So, the fan fits fine, but I am not happy with the fan shroud itself. It is made of heavy metal. This particular shroud does not fit the cooler exactly, as it is a hair too short by 6 rows, but there is not a shroud made for a 40 row, only a 34 row. I was planning on trimming the shroud on one side so that it would accommodate the larger cooler, but I no longer see the point. In any event, this shroud weighs a lot. I am bummed that I am going to have to most likely fab up a way to have the fan on the cooler naked, and just put an insulating seal between the fan outer shroud ring and the cooler fins, and somehow attach that to the cooler.

The other thing I am not happy about is the cars air intake is going to be sucking from this heated air that exits the cooler and its fan. I have known this was going to be a problem, and was hoping I would be able to move toward solving i in another fashion, by having an air intake on the hood of the car, that then goes through the passenger side of the existing hood duct, and feeds the air box that way.

I would love to be the first to do this, but I am overwhelmed. I have attached a photo of it below. I really hope companies like Vararam who have not released their z06 intake box yet, have it inhaling from the hood seam, as their stingray intake does.

I have also attached photos of a shroud that can be used for the track guys, who choose not to run a fan, or, run the fan inside the shroud I have attached a photo of (there"s an idea i just thought of as i was writing)

That shroud can be opened up to accommodate 40 rows (it too is only for 34 rows). I was planning on perhaps molding my own shroud out of plastic that covered all 40 rows. The perk to this reverse side shroud is that a hose can be ran to the exit point at the back of the wheel well at the bottom/inner corner. If the hose stuck down ever so slightly, it would create a great vacuum at the end of the hose, as the car is driving. evacuating the hot air out of the cheek area, and away from the airbox intake.

Any ideas on slick tricks to mount the fan to the HX, without the heavy steel shroud, please let me know.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...2db736d6c.jpeg


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after I wrote the above post I realized that an intake like Jeremy at Fasterproms had, where it inhales from under the car... that style tube could be mounted into this system, and snaked up behind the fan, to the intake for the air box.

since I will be making a custom shroud now for the back of the cooler, I am interested in smaller, very powerful fans... that flow a ton of air. I can set them in the bottom left or bottom right and have them attached to a tube, that evacuates the air through a 3 inch or 4 inch duct/hose to the opening at the back of the cheek. They would be air tight to the cooler due to the custom shroud im going to have to build anyway most likely. I could compound these smaller fans, and have them in series. Just throwing out the idea in case someone knows of some hyper small fans, or if I should just stay with the large one

Spal Brushless are as powerful for their size as you are going to find.

Common way is to use a zip tie style mount that goes trough the fins, but has a wide mounting pad so nothing gets crushed.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...SABEgKYqvD_BwE

makes sense. I know I said that the cars would not need any trimming, but I think it is going to be important to cut the opening toward the back of the cheek area, opening larger, by removing some of the floor plane

Since i knew the air was going to have to be moved out that small hole in the back, i was looking at leaf blower fans too :) Probably not going to work.

forgot to put up the photos of the plasic shroud I have which matches the cooler on 3 of the 4 sides, and the 4th side i would trim and remold, and now also remold to make sure it accepts the fan. Left (passenger) side is the side that would need trimmed and extended.


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Thinking way outside the box here... and just thinking out loud... im wondering what would happen if a person put a vent along the wheel arch union to the front bumper... for instance, a quarter inch spacer, which air could flow through, but the vent would have to be after or behind, the wheel well fender spat/flare, as then vacuum would be created. A quarter inch along that whole front half of that wheel arch seam would flow/evacuate a lot of air.

Edit: nevermind, not possible, forgot how it looked in there, its too recessed, and tire would rub.

This has me contemplating on the cutout shape though, the bottom outside quadrant could be used as evacuation, especially on the back side of a dive plane.

Mike, sorry not read everything in this thread as there is soo much! Lol what are you planning on using the aux rad for with the oil cooler setup? Also do you think that 2 massive coolers might be too much? Could you maybe use one for oil and the other as a HE?...

correct, its all modular and plug and play, im setting it up so that the person who installs them can plumb that cooler into any existing cooling circuit they choose, (trans fluid, blower fluid, engine oil, etc) without cutting or bending any stock lines. Everything can be put back to stock very quickly, when my kits are removed.

As far as the coolers being too big... there is nothing gained by going smaller. All the headache of installing them is the same. The fan still fits on the back of them. They only weight 4 lbs each. Nothing is gained by going smaller, may as well let them cool as much as they can. The goal is to take big bites out of the heat, so that you dont have to spend a lot of money. Existing vendors have people jump through a lot of swap outs, we leave everything else alone and just add 1 or 2 of these, and let the person see where they are.

PS... when you dont read, it causes everyone else who did read... to have to read again, and for me to type again. So everyone works except you... so that we all have to do work... again.

Read the thread, otherwise if im asked questions that have been clearly answered, i will ignore them... for the sake of everyone else who is having to read this... again.

I currently have only welded 90 degree elbows onto the stock oil line, and ran the lines to the front to the cooler, that way.

I am exploring entering in at the braided hose section, as it would give me more room to work, as the hard line section is only about 6-8 inches long.

If anyone knows where I could find an abnormally LARGE DIAMETER hose adapter fitting, please let me know.

I will have the exact micrometer measurements tomorrow, mine is not working at the moment, and probably wont get it fixed before tomorrow. Just know, this line is larger than -12 AN hose. Inside appears to be Teflon.

For those of you curious, a cut and created hose with fittings would be part of the kit. Your stock hose would be removed from the car and put on the shelf in your garage until you needed it to put the car back to stock. Or you can sell it or throw it away... but just know, the damn things are almost 100 dollars with tax and shipping, for 1 of them.

Also, keep in mind, the braided outer shell can be unbraided and pulled back, leaving just the teflon. If there was a hose adapter for just the teflon, i believe it would work fine, as this hose is up and guarded in a location road debris does not hit it, and where the debris might hit is the hard line section, so this would be well off to the side of that location, and receive no tugging or pulling, and since it is not a high pressure system on this return hose, then joining into the teflon alone, I believe should be sufficient.



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...2af4fa31dd.jpg
Edit, I think Ive solved it. I will know more tomorrow, but I found someone who can make the fitting.

Found the hose fitting that goes onto the teflon stock line...

But I am more interested in creating monoblocks that then attach to hose of my own, and the monoblocks are to be clones of the blocks that go into the engine oil pan and the oil dry sump tank.

The problem now is finding the seal washer with the rubber in the middle. I have found one so far, but its rubber outer diameter is smaller than the GM stock rubber outer diameter. I think the smaller rubber will work, but would rather keep fishing to see if I cant find something more inline with the stock seal/washer/gasket.

The 1.18 is the OD for the GM rubber gasket/seal section.


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so, i win the stupid award... i knew the hose came as an assembly with the seal ring, but I did not check with GM for the seal ring, GM sells them separate of course, so no more scavenger hunt for that ring. Wasted a couple hours of my life worrying about a damn ring i can order from the dealer. :banghead:

Blue tape where the turn signal/running light reflector was, indicates where material would be cut away from the front bumper cover to make a vent. Also, between the lower part of the vent and the dive plane, that triangle area, could be an additional vent to make the overall vent larger. I realize we could mold existing turn signal lights into the vent shape, and it would sit in behind the dive plane. This would all offer support for the dive plane, and could look good if done right.

I plan to have the oil cooler kit done soon, and the we will continue to work towards the dive plane, and once the dive plane is made, for the car with a closed off, uncut, normal front end, then after that we will work on the cutout shape and duct for the front bumper. Front bumper cut out will likely have a dive plane that wraps up into the cutout itself.

Dive plane makes it easier to have the guts to cut a front fascia of one of these cars, as the dive plane will offer a reference line/shape.




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White area is cutout area for exit vent, and the orange is the brace for the diveplane. Huge vacuum will exist behind the dive plane, so this vent would pull air out of the car.

Diveplane not drawn. Running light/Turn signal also not drawn. This vent would be similar to the vent on the side of the car that has the z06 badge currently. The turn signal could exist in a place in the middle just as the z06 emblem does on the fender vent behind the front wheel.

By keeping the stock tab square holes, regular side markers could be added back to this area at any time. The diveplane would not require the front of the car to be cut, but would coincide with the cutout if someone wants to make the cut, and add the rest of the pieces.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d1f37eae1f.png
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something else to understand, by us going into the indicator light area, and bringing the drawn orange struts back across to connect to the under side of the dive plane, we now can accommodate front fascias that have already had cutouts installed from any other vendor. While our kit would not require cutting below the dive plane, the struts would just sit up against the fascia in normal cases....

..but for those who already have a hole cut there, this now allows us to turn that hole into an exit vent, or to be covered and it will look acceptable as the struts will be bonded to that cover, so it will look normal. As time goes on, we will work to make our kit compatible with any existing holes in this bottom/outside corner of the other vendor's square template holes that already exist in so many vehicles.

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Made a stronger bracket, It sandwiches on the left outside corner, at the headlight mount point, so it keeps the cooler from moving up or down, and also takes the stress off the small screw at that tab. I will meet with a couple shops who might make it out of carbon, and I will also look into what it takes to build it out of some simple I beams.

I'll drill the holes in the bracket tomorrow, and smooth out the edges. Done for tonight.

Getting ready to go on a long trip, so will have the cooler hung in place and go down a lot of bumpy roads and see if i can get anything to break, but i don't think that's going to happen.

So i figured I would give you guys a little update what is going on. I am currently waiting for the monoblock fittings to be machined, that will plug into the stock oil line female fports at the engine pan and the sump tank.

Once I get those monoblocks, things should start coming together pretty quickly. However, to get the price down on those, per unit made, I have to order A LOT of them (hundreds)

So, that's probably what I'm going to do. (other vendors, if you want some fittings to make your own kits, ill probably be selling them to you as well should you need some.

And so speaking of costs, and keeping them down...

While the aluminum brackets I made out of sheet metal was a fun exercise :willy:... the problem comes when I want to mass produce them. I thought I would have someone who could stamp them out for me, but they too, want me to buy hundreds, and those will cost more than the oil fitting monoblocks will, and even once they are stamped out, I will still have to manually alter them, and they wont look "professional" enough for me to want to release them with our name on them...

So, we've been doing some more research, and we also want this kit to look nice, but we also want to be affordable, more so than any other kit out there, so I am trying to keep the costs down on every component of the kit, and it would be great to find something that is already mass produced that I could use to make the bracket with, without having to manually bend much metal around by hand...

And since I am waiting for the monoblocks to be machined, I have time to experiment some more, which brings us to this....


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...71fa569994.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...089d1a037e.png

So i ordered some of this very high quality, pre drilled, aluminum U channel, and some other corresponding connective parts, and I am going to tinker with a much cleaner design, and if all goes according to what my imagination says I can do, then you are most likely looking at the backbone for the oil cooler bracket, moving forward.

Time will tell of course. I am also about to order in another fan than the one I currently have, and experiment with a size larger and see how it fits.

Thanks for all the encouragement along the way, I promise we are getting close, but that stock oil line has caused us some delays since I don't want to release janky looking oil lines to people and have them cutting up their stock oil line, or investing 90 bucks for an oil line for me to cut up for them... so i think the monobocks are the way to go.

I ordered this bumper a month ago not sure if the pic helps. I have a question is Carbon Fiber able to be heated and molded to fit.

Looks similar to Khoa's front at Competition Carbon, but it is different, thicker on the side intakes at the bottom.

Anyway, i dont think you need anymore body work, I think you will just need to add some coolers next. I'm trying to hurry, we are almost there. Want to make sure what is released is the best way to do it, with no regrets later.

Let me know how that bumper works out, it looks very long and low in the front, as the car is still at, what looks to be, stock ride height in the photos.

carbon does not melt, no, its a chemical reaction, once it sets, its over. Nightmare to work with, not easy process.