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-   C7 Z06 Discussion (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion-170/)
-   -   The top reason to keep your C7 over a C8 (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/4264102-the-top-reason-to-keep-your-c7-over-a-c8.html)

Stripeknight 04-17-2019 04:51 AM

The top reason to keep your C7 over a C8
 
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...1333bae453.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...df22f11710.jpg
When I was a kid in elementary school, my favorite car for 20 years was the then 1981 Stingray Corvette, as an adult in my late 30's I was able to buy the modern version of my all time favorite car.
If you are a Stingray fan and have a 650 hp Z, and you can easily modify it to 1000 hp why buy the next version?

RobGZ06 04-17-2019 05:23 AM

Because a mid engine car is better. Higher hp variants will have more than 650hp and the car will finally come with a dual clutch.

Cars are getting better. So it only make sense to eventually upgrade to a new model when they come out.

Take a deep breath guys.....................the C7 reign is over. C8 is in town.

Detroit_Bill 04-17-2019 08:31 AM

There is nothing wrong with a C7
 

Originally Posted by RobGZ06 (Post 1599241165)
Because a mid engine car is better. Higher hp variants will have more than 650hp and the car will finally come with a dual clutch.

Cars are getting better. So it only make sense to eventually upgrade to a new model when they come out.

Take a deep breath guys.....................the C7 reign is over. C8 is in town.

The truth is that you can not come close to approaching the potential of a C7 Z06 on the street. Assuming the C8 is higher performance it just moves the bar higher. There is nothing wrong with a C7, enjoy it. It is an awesome car.

The C8 is a very interesting bit of history. I can't think of a car that comes close? Corvair, Fiero.....? I plan on fully enjoying my C7 and I will closely follow the C8. If in a few years I feel the urge I might get one. Until then seeing what they chose to do technically with the car will be very interesting. People don't respect the car companies, I find that baffling. The technical expertise and scale needed to produce cars is an accomplishment. Look at Tesla, electronics "geniuses" build a car. Anyone can build a fast electric car, it is the nature of electric motors. Their cars are POS, an expensive POS. They can't scale up and they can't build quality. GM is a technical powerhouse. Making something with an unlimited budget is not that hard. Making something in volume at a very good price is difficult.

Excuse the rant.

The next few years will be very interesting. Technology has made producing HP more affordable. Start from scratch on a new chassis with the engine options available today, it will be interesting.

Monkey D. Luffy 04-17-2019 08:40 AM

#1 reason I'm not buying a C8....The Z06 is paid for!

jstewart 04-17-2019 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Monkey D. Luffy (Post 1599241727)
#1 reason I'm not buying a C8....The Z06 is paid for!

:thumbs: ditto

ajrothm 04-17-2019 09:03 AM

About 150hp....thatís why to keep the C7Z.... Now when the C8Z comes out, we may be onto something but.... everyone getting all antsy over a BASE MODEL C8..... better handling or not, itís still not gonna beat a C7Z on a track and damn sure not on a drag strip..... just not enough power...

ssmith512 04-17-2019 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Monkey D. Luffy (Post 1599241727)
#1 reason I'm not buying a C8....The Z06 is paid for!

What he said!! :cheers: :flag:

The C8 as it is shown today does not interest me in the slightest. I am bummed there appears to be no manual version in the pipeline which is just my old school enjoyment of rowing gears getting in the way of me embracing new technology. I will wait and see what they do for a "Z06" version. Until then, I will enjoy the '19 C7Z. Every time I drive it, I am honestly amazed at how good they made the C7Z (with me coming from a 2012 GS).

RobGZ06 04-17-2019 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by Detroit_Bill (Post 1599241688)
The truth is that you can not come close to approaching the potential of a C7 Z06 on the street. Assuming the C8 is higher performance it just moves the bar higher. There is nothing wrong with a C7, enjoy it. It is an awesome car.

The C8 is a very interesting bit of history. I can't think of a car that comes close? Corvair, Fiero.....? I plan on fully enjoying my C7 and I will closely follow the C8. If in a few years I feel the urge I might get one. Until then seeing what they chose to do technically with the car will be very interesting. People don't respect the car companies, I find that baffling. The technical expertise and scale needed to produce cars is an accomplishment. Look at Tesla, electronics "geniuses" build a car. Anyone can build a fast electric car, it is the nature of electric motors. Their cars are POS, an expensive POS. They can't scale up and they can't build quality. GM is a technical powerhouse. Making something with an unlimited budget is not that hard. Making something in volume at a very good price is difficult.

Excuse the rant.

The next few years will be very interesting. Technology has made producing HP more affordable. Start from scratch on a new chassis with the engine options available today, it will be interesting.

None of us cant. So why do we own z06's?

90% of us wouldn't even bring out the best of a stingray, let alone a z06.

I just find it laughable everyone is dismissing the c8 and it's not even officially debuted, people are shooting it down like you all know GM failed at its engineering. That's why when July 18 comes and its debuted, and car magazines start testing it for their articles, I will bump all these threads and say I told you so.

2500 hd 04-17-2019 09:32 AM

I really like my C7 and plan on keeping it for a while.
I am curious as to what the C8 is really going to look like....

Road machine 04-17-2019 10:20 AM

Handling may or may not be better. Just because you put the engine behind the driver does not make a car handle better. A mid engine car is a car that has the engine sit between the front and rear axles. Guess where the engine sits in the C7.....between the front and rear axles. The Corvette has always been a mid engine car and that is why it was always the best handling american car. The Corvette C7, C6, C5 ad C4 have had near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. 50/50 weight distribution gives the best handling as it is the perfect compromise between rear end traction and front end grip. Putting the engine behind the driver usually gives a rear end bias, which gives more traction to the drive wheels, but sacrifices front end grip which causes understeer. Lawyers like understeeer, because when a car understeers you have to slow down to get it back under control, hitting the brakes shifts weight to the front and bingo you get steering back.....but you just had to slow down to do that. The reason lawyers like understeer is that when the car goes straight when you wanted to turn, they can just say you were going too fast (no liability for you speeding). GM moved the engine to the rear because they were reaching the limit of traction for the power they could get out of their motors. That does not mean that it will handle better, it will just accelerate faster,which is great at the drag strip but maybe not so good on a road race track when you have to turn. We will see what comes out when the C8 comes out, and if the price is as good as the C7, (which I doubt) and the car handles better on the track (which again I doubt) I will certainly consider one, once all the bugs are out, and they have introduced the higher output versions.....(I would say in about 5-6 years for the higher output and solved bugs for those higher output cars) In the meantime I will enjoy the hell out of my C7 Z06 and if the world is still here and I am still alive we will see where the current state of the art lies. 5-6 years is a long way away.

Scoobydoobydoo 04-17-2019 11:14 AM

Ok, I have to ask. If the current Corvette has an almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution than what advantage will the ME C8 give if the split is the same 50/50 ?

RobGZ06 04-17-2019 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by Scoobydoobydoo (Post 1599242631)
Ok, I have to ask. If the current Corvette has an almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution than what advantage will the ME C8 give if the split is the same 50/50 ?

An FE corvette with massive power will be a handful to control if operated to its limit.

A 50/50 car isnt anymore when the car is accelerating.

An ME will have better balance and will be more controllable when the power is up there. That's why a lot of the supercars are mid engine. Balance. No matter where the weight is shifted to during aggressive driving.

cyi1 04-17-2019 11:31 AM

I thought you were going to say "TRUNK SPACE"

ronsc1985 04-17-2019 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by Scoobydoobydoo (Post 1599242631)
Ok, I have to ask. If the current Corvette has an almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution than what advantage will the ME C8 give if the split is the same 50/50 ?

Depending on how it is laid out you may have a lower polar moment of inertia i.e. the weight is more centered in the care so rotating the car in the corners is easier. As an extreme example you could have a car with a 50-50 weight distribution that had 1/2 it's weight over the front axle and 1/2 over the back axle making it a real bear to turn.

The weight transfer has to do with how high the center of gravity is above the road surface and how great the acceleration is. It has little or nothing to do with engine location.

The bad news for ME cars is they usually have very limited storage available so it you like to use the car for trips you may be SOL. They are also notoriously difficult to work on.

Aside from all that this breathlessness about a ME Corvette is idle speculation until the specs are officially released. For now it's all marketing BS.

ssmith512 04-17-2019 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by Scoobydoobydoo (Post 1599242631)
Ok, I have to ask. If the current Corvette has an almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution than what advantage will the ME C8 give if the split is the same 50/50 ?

In a word - inertia.

Bill Dearborn 04-17-2019 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by Detroit_Bill (Post 1599241688)
The truth is that you can not come close to approaching the potential of a C7 Z06 on the street. Assuming the C8 is higher performance it just moves the bar higher. There is nothing wrong with a C7, enjoy it. It is an awesome car.

The C8 is a very interesting bit of history. I can't think of a car that comes close? Corvair, Fiero.....? I plan on fully enjoying my C7 and I will closely follow the C8. If in a few years I feel the urge I might get one. Until then seeing what they chose to do technically with the car will be very interesting. People don't respect the car companies, I find that baffling. The technical expertise and scale needed to produce cars is an accomplishment. Look at Tesla, electronics "geniuses" build a car. Anyone can build a fast electric car, it is the nature of electric motors. Their cars are POS, an expensive POS. They can't scale up and they can't build quality. GM is a technical powerhouse. Making something with an unlimited budget is not that hard. Making something in volume at a very good price is difficult.

Excuse the rant.

The next few years will be very interesting. Technology has made producing HP more affordable. Start from scratch on a new chassis with the engine options available today, it will be interesting.

The big reason for the switch to a rear mid engine design is the Corvette is a Sports Car not a drag strip or stop light gran prix wonder. The rear mid engine design provides better handling in corners and is more responsive when powering out of a corner. I have ridden in several ME engine cars; Ferrari 458, Audi R8, Lamborghini something as an instructor on a road course. I can get around the track at a pretty good clip in my Z06 but I immediately noticed the ME cars had an advantage in a corner. A big advantage, with the difference in polar moment of inertia the cars responded to steering input much quicker than the Z could. The Ferrari driver screwed up a turn entry in a big way and had the car pointed the wrong way as we went by the apex toward the next turn in a series of Esses, I thought we were going off track but he turned the steering wheel and the car pivoted to bring us back on line and toward the apex of the following turn. Having several thousand miles of experience driving my Z at the limit of adhesion I know it would have gone off track as it couldn't have made that maneuver. That is one reason why they are going to a rear mid engine design, the second reason is the larger rear weight bias lets the driver apply power sooner when coming off the apex and get to wide open throttle sooner since the rear wheels have more acceleration grip and with the front wheels carrying less weight they have more cornering grip.

A road course is sort of like a series of drag strips and the same law of physics applies there as it does in a drag race. He who leaves first at a higher rate of speed will win the race. On a road course that is the race to the next corner. So being able to go through corners faster, plus apply power sooner when leaving means the driver gets a big speed jump on the car that can't handle that corner. To make up for the speed jump off the turn with the current platform you need a prodigious power to weight ratio advantage but at the power levels required the platform can't put the power to the ground so loses out. In drag racing where the car only has to go in a straight line drag slicks can provide the grip but they handle like crap and would cause the car to be even slower through a turn.

Bill

serpent 04-17-2019 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by Scoobydoobydoo (Post 1599242631)
Ok, I have to ask. If the current Corvette has an almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution than what advantage will the ME C8 give if the split is the same 50/50 ?

the C8 wont have 50/50 weight distribution. It will have a weight bias towards the rear which is what you want anyways in a performance car. A lot of these doubters live under a rock. Whats funny is even the top fuel cars have their engines behind the driver. I think the only time there is an advantage of having an engine in the front is for rally racing.
All of the fastest cars for road course racing and endurance racing are mid engine cars (F1 and Lemans prototype racecars). Hell even the 1 million plus hyper cars have their engines in the back. This is a natural progression if you want to remain competitive.

Next thing people are going to be bitching about turbos

edit: btw, keep your c7z, it is the last front engine vette. I would only trade in if the c8z is amazing (it probably will be, GM does not fuck around). I wonder if we'll ever get a c6z leap. That car punched way above its weight. Still relevant even today.

C6ness 04-17-2019 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn (Post 1599242939)
The big reason for the switch to a rear mid engine design is the Corvette is a Sports Car not a drag strip or stop light gran prix wonder. The rear mid engine design provides better handling in corners and is more responsive when powering out of a corner. I have ridden in several ME engine cars; Ferrari 458, Audi R8, Lamborghini something as an instructor on a road course. I can get around the track at a pretty good clip in my Z06 but I immediately noticed the ME cars had an advantage in a corner. A big advantage, with the difference in polar moment of inertia the cars responded to steering input much quicker than the Z could. The Ferrari driver screwed up a turn entry in a big way and had the car pointed the wrong way as we went by the apex toward the next turn in a series of Esses, I thought we were going off track but he turned the steering wheel and the car pivoted to bring us back on line and toward the apex of the following turn. Having several thousand miles of experience driving my Z at the limit of adhesion I know it would have gone off track as it couldn't have made that maneuver. That is one reason why they are going to a rear mid engine design, the second reason is the larger rear weight bias lets the driver apply power sooner when coming off the apex and get to wide open throttle sooner since the rear wheels have more acceleration grip and with the front wheels carrying less weight they have more cornering grip.

A road course is sort of like a series of drag strips and the same law of physics applies there as it does in a drag race. He who leaves first at a higher rate of speed will win the race. On a road course that is the race to the next corner. So being able to go through corners faster, plus apply power sooner when leaving means the driver gets a big speed jump on the car that can't handle that corner. To make up for the speed jump off the turn with the current platform you need a prodigious power to weight ratio advantage but at the power levels required the platform can't put the power to the ground so loses out. In drag racing where the car only has to go in a straight line drag slicks can provide the grip but they handle like crap and would cause the car to be even slower through a turn.

Bill

I was able to drive a Ferrari scuderia a few years back at the las vegas exotic racing experience. I'm no experienced road course driver but the way that thing turned and then just squatted and dug its way out of a corner was just awesome. The ME front is lighter so the car just turns in quicker and gives you a sense of confidence. Really feels like it's on rails .

ceastham1 04-17-2019 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by monkey d. Luffy (Post 1599241727)
#1 reason i'm not buying a c8....the z06 is paid for!

agreed !!!!!!

Vette E Boop 04-17-2019 02:14 PM

My top reasons:

Looks like an American Corvette not an Italian-looking wannabe!
M7!

:flag:


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