Help MAJOR Engine Failure seeking advice and options
Hey CF fam,
After 6 years and 126K miles of bliss my Drysump LS3 decided it was time to say goodbye. It is currently seized and the shop has found bearing material in the oil. Based how I use my car and the situation in which the engine died does anyone have better options or ideas than what the shop presented me with? How I've used the car:
How the engine died: Went to the drag strip to do some WOT testing and data collection (car has headers and tune). I did roughly 3 runs and the car felt way down on power for the 2nd & 3rd runs. I thought it was just me and my bad shifting but after the 3rd run I heard some pretty bad knocking. To make a long story short: engine seized leaving drag strip, towed home, couple days later troubleshot the problem and got it running again briefly, drove a couple times to figure out knock, seized during last test, towed to shop.
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Originally Posted by truth.b
(Post 1599375374)
Hey CF fam,
After 6 years and 126K miles of bliss my Drysump LS3 decided it was time to say goodbye. It is currently seized and the shop has found bearing material in the oil. Based how I use my car and the situation in which the engine died does anyone have better options or ideas than what the shop presented me with? How I've used the car:
How the engine died: Went to the drag strip to do some WOT testing and data collection (car has headers and tune). I did roughly 3 runs and the car felt way down on power for the 2nd & 3rd runs. I thought it was just me and my bad shifting but after the 3rd run I heard some pretty bad knocking. To make a long story short: engine seized leaving drag strip, towed home, couple days later troubleshot the problem and got it running again briefly, drove a couple times to figure out knock, seized during last test, towed to shop.
This is very dependent on if your block is still usable and the heads are rebuildable. A complete high quality rotating assembly (callies or K1) can be had for around 3000 balanced. Find a machine shop your area that builds circle track engines. They know how to clearance a engine to last. Most of them anyways. Good luck and don't forget to change the oil cooler and clean out the tank/lines. |
I've not a fan of machining and reusing grenaded blocks when new ones are fairly cheap. One uncleaned oil channel and it all goes to crap again. The real benefit of a crate motor is the warranty. So ask yourself do you want a warranty or extra horsepower more?
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Originally Posted by sccaGT1racer
(Post 1599376237)
This is very dependent on if your block is still usable and the heads are rebuildable. A complete high quality rotating assembly (callies or K1) can be had for around 3000 balanced. Find a machine shop your area that builds circle track engines. They know how to clearance a engine to last. Most of them anyways. Good luck and don't forget to change the oil cooler and clean out the tank/lines.
Originally Posted by synner
(Post 1599376305)
I've not a fan of machining and reusing grenaded blocks when new ones are fairly cheap. One uncleaned oil channel and it all goes to crap again. The real benefit of a crate motor is the warranty. So ask yourself do you want a warranty or extra horsepower more?
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Need to figure out HOW/WHY it failed before you can "build a more reliable engine."
IMO, a new crate motor with a warranty....maybe slip in a cam at the same time (but that may void the warranty). Keep old motor and salvage what you can from it. As time goes on have the heads ported etc etc and swap them to the crate motor in the car. Then sell spare parts. |
525hp ls3, gm warranty
https://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Per...41625/10002/-1 tanks should be cleanable oil cooler I would not risk, same with lines |
Originally Posted by andersnor
(Post 1599376737)
525hp ls3, gm warranty
https://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Per...41625/10002/-1 tanks should be cleanable oil cooler I would not risk, same with lines |
Regular wetsump yes
Keeping ls3, and drysump combined with warranty is going to be tough to find, ls7, ls9 etc yeah sure but $$$$ LT1 and such are drysump though... but probably a lot of work? |
Originally Posted by andersnor
(Post 1599376950)
Regular wetsump yes
Keeping ls3, and drysump combined with warranty is going to be tough to find, ls7, ls9 etc yeah sure but $$$$ LT1 and such are drysump though... but probably a lot of work? |
Just to be clear, you're running the factory GS dry sump?
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Originally Posted by DunlevysZ
(Post 1599380153)
Just to be clear, you're running the factory GS dry sump?
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Call Kyle from Thompson Motorsports. They are a supporting vendor, have some crazy specials and even stock some common builds. Warranty also!
(972) 853-2450 |
Originally Posted by Under-Pressure
(Post 1599381437)
Call Kyle from Thompson Motorsports. They are a supporting vendor, have some crazy specials and even stock some common builds. Warranty also!
(972) 853-2450 |
If metal particles get into the oil system the oil cooler and lines have to be replaced per GM Repair instructions. The dry sump reservoir itself can be taken apart and cleaned.
What is your long term goal with the car? Rebuilding your current engine keeps the car's originality. Anything else doesn't. I don't think you have too much of a worry about oil passages not getting cleaned out if a reputable builder does the rebuild. What you put inside the block doesn't have to be totally stock. If you want a shop that can do it all machine work, rebuild and maybe engine removal and install call Gibbons Motorsports in Mooresville, NC. They build circle track engines for various racing series, build drag engines and are familiar with LS engines. They were the shop I chose to do the head rebuild for the LS7 in my 08Z. When I was touring the machine shop I saw they had work sent to them by Joe Gibbs racing and Hendrick Motorsports. That is enough of a quality review for me. https://www.facebook.com/gibbonsmotorsportssouth/ Give them a call and stop by to see them, get a shop tour and talk about what you want done. Peter will help guide you to a decision. From the things you do I suspect you really don't want a HP monster. You want a reliable, durable engine that can stand up to long track sessions Vs a 1/4 mile wonder that won't like being wide open for more than 15 seconds. When they redid my heads they removed them from the engine, took them apart and measured the valves and the guides and determined the clearances. Two intake valves were slightly out of tolerance (Spec is .0037 and they measured ,0039). I sat and talked with Peter about the best way to proceed. GMPP authorized two brand new fully assembled heads and I had Gibbons tear them down and install bronze guides along with Ti/Mo intake and exhaust valves. Peter's son even purchased my old heads for an engine he was building for himself. I got a top of the line valve job for a total cost to me of just short of $3000. Those Ti/Mo valves are $160.00 each. Bill |
Originally Posted by Under-Pressure
(Post 1599381437)
Call Kyle from Thompson Motorsports. They are a supporting vendor, have some crazy specials and even stock some common builds. Warranty also!
(972) 853-2450 We would love the opportunity to help with this. Our motor of the month would be a great solution and at a price that can not be beat. We can do a darton sleeved 427 dry sump with a k1 crank, H beam rods and coated diamond pistons for $5499, The better option for your use would be a callies center counterweighted crank and billet i beam rods with coated diamond pistons for $6999. Let me know if I can help in any way. Thank you, Kyle 972-853-2450 Thank you for the recommendation Under-pressure. |
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
(Post 1599382024)
If metal particles get into the oil system the oil cooler and lines have to be replaced per GM Repair instructions. The dry sump reservoir itself can be taken apart and cleaned.
What is your long term goal with the car? Rebuilding your current engine keeps the car's originality. Anything else doesn't. I don't think you have too much of a worry about oil passages not getting cleaned out if a reputable builder does the rebuild. What you put inside the block doesn't have to be totally stock. If you want a shop that can do it all machine work, rebuild and maybe engine removal and install call Gibbons Motorsports in Mooresville, NC. They build circle track engines for various racing series, build drag engines and are familiar with LS engines. They were the shop I chose to do the head rebuild for the LS7 in my 08Z. When I was touring the machine shop I saw they had work sent to them by Joe Gibbs racing and Hendrick Motorsports. That is enough of a quality review for me. https://www.facebook.com/gibbonsmotorsportssouth/ Give them a call and stop by to see them, get a shop tour and talk about what you want done. Peter will help guide you to a decision. From the things you do I suspect you really don't want a HP monster. You want a reliable, durable engine that can stand up to long track sessions Vs a 1/4 mile wonder that won't like being wide open for more than 15 seconds. When they redid my heads they removed them from the engine, took them apart and measured the valves and the guides and determined the clearances. Two intake valves were slightly out of tolerance (Spec is .0037 and they measured ,0039). I sat and talked with Peter about the best way to proceed. GMPP authorized two brand new fully assembled heads and I had Gibbons tear them down and install bronze guides along with Ti/Mo intake and exhaust valves. Peter's son even purchased my old heads for an engine he was building for himself. I got a top of the line valve job for a total cost to me of just short of $3000. Those Ti/Mo valves are $160.00 each. Bill |
Originally Posted by Thompson Motorsports
(Post 1599382633)
We would love the opportunity to help with this. Our motor of the month would be a great solution and at a price that can not be beat. We can do a darton sleeved 427 dry sump with a k1 crank, H beam rods and coated diamond pistons for $5499, The better option for your use would be a callies center counterweighted crank and billet i beam rods with coated diamond pistons for $6999. Let me know if I can help in any way. Thank you, Kyle 972-853-2450
Thank you for the recommendation Under-pressure. |
So I think I'm going to ask the shop to pull my motor and see what happen before I go forward with a new crate engine. But in the mean time I've been going through my data and I'm not sure why this happened. Unfortunately I don't have full data on the 2nd & 3rd runs because my computer crashed, but I do have AIM Solo DL data for all three and temps and pressures correlate with the 1st.
In general these are my big take aways: The computer doesn't register the engine loosing oil pressure during any of the runs Oil was 160F during first run... is that problem? I missed the 1st to 2nd shift in the first couple of runs so the engine free spun to 7K in neutral. There was really bad spark knock during the first run but my AFR and advance appears normal. - I did clean my Attack Blue filter the day before, but there are roughly 80 miles between my house and the track so I figure any weirdness should have worked itself out. - I now wonder if the MAF malfuctioned and caused a lean condition but Wideband doesn't back up that guess. - Also I did fill up with roughly 1.5gal of gas at a BP near the track, so it is possible I didn't get the 93 I paid for. - I've never seen the engine knock like this before. Could something have been going on with a fuel injector or the fuel pump? https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...82de90f200.png https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7aef8850f4.png https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...6375e24205.png https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...d61550afdd.png |
Really bad spark knock can destroy rod bearings. From your data in the previous post, that's where I'd put my money. Really bad spark knock should result in immediate closed throttle and diagnosis to figure out why.Sorry this happened to you car.
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Originally Posted by DunlevysZ
(Post 1599385820)
Really bad spark knock can destroy rod bearings. From your data in the previous post, that's where I'd put my money. Really bad spark knock should result in immediate closed throttle and diagnosis to figure out why.Sorry this happened to you car.
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