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-   -   H1B Denials 'Skyrocketing' (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/politics-religion-and-controversy/4273273-h1b-denials-skyrocketing.html)

Builderrick 05-12-2019 08:30 AM

H1B Denials 'Skyrocketing'
 
https://insights.dice.com/2019/04/22...ocketing-2019/


More for the liberals to cry themselves to sleep at night.


TRUMP 2020 !

leadfoot4 05-12-2019 08:32 AM

:smash: :smash: :smash:




MAGA!

BoostManiac 05-12-2019 11:31 AM

#KAG

:flag:

68/70Vette 05-12-2019 11:42 AM

Why does this matter when perhaps a million illegals will be waltzing into the country this year? It's so difficult to come here legally and so easy to come here illegally. At least the H1B applicants are educated, can presumably speak English, and .......importantly..... want to work.

BadUmp 05-12-2019 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by 68/70Vette (Post 1599388170)
Why does this matter when perhaps a million illegals will be waltzing into the country this year? It's so difficult to come here legally and so easy to come here illegally. At least the H1B applicants are educated, can presumably speak English, and .......importantly..... want to work.

the real problem, as I see it, is that a certain segment of people in this country for years now have allowed these H1B applicants to be able to perch themselves in the proverbial catbird seat since our education system has become so completely inferior to their system. Maybe it's about time to apply our resources to fixing that problem and not be dependent on these Visa applicants to perform "temporary" jobs that Americans can not perform . . . :(

gs568 05-12-2019 12:31 PM

According to the left, visa overstayers are the majority of the problem. :rofl:

Builderrick 05-12-2019 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by 68/70Vette (Post 1599388170)
Why does this matter when perhaps a million illegals will be waltzing into the country this year? It's so difficult to come here legally and so easy to come here illegally. At least the H1B applicants are educated, can presumably speak English, and .......importantly..... want to work.


It matters because it is part of the very same problem. Too much immigration PERIOD !

These people come in and then want their entire extended family coming in behind them.

We don't need them to fill ANY jobs. Fill the open jobs with AMERICANS first. Stop the B.S. that there aren't enough educated AMERICANS to fill the positions.

When they can't fill the positions with immigrants they will pay more to fill the positions with AMERICANS.

THAT is a win for THIS country.

larrysb 05-12-2019 01:58 PM

Actually, America greatly benefits from H1b visas. There really are NOT enough people with advanced degrees available to do all the productive work available in the USA.

I've been on the hiring side of H1b, many times. Bringing people into the US with advanced education and high-demand technical skills is a net win for the country.

Quite honestly, I've never ever paid an H1b visa holder a nickel less than citizen with the same qualifications. Not even once. I've been in high tech for a couple of decades. The companies who sponsor do benefit from one thing and this also erodes the labor market: The H1b worker is not able to easily change jobs in the US. So it improves retention, which is a very big deal in tech. A lot of the H1b workers I've hired had post-grad degrees from American universities.

There is a dark side and some abuses occur. One of the worst are outsourcing companies, who are usually also based offshore. They operate in the US and import as many H1b workers as they can get and they do tend to pay them and they push for less-skilled workers. These guys displace American workers, especially for lower skilled, lower-degreed jobs.

So I will proudly call myself a 100% pro-immigration conservative. When the immigrant benefits this country, I say let them in.

Builderrick 05-12-2019 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by larrysb (Post 1599388816)
Actually, America greatly benefits from H1b visas. There really are NOT enough people with advanced degrees available to do all the productive work available in the USA.

I've been on the hiring side of H1b, many times. Bringing people into the US with advanced education and high-demand technical skills is a net win for the country.

Quite honestly, I've never ever paid an H1b visa holder a nickel less than citizen with the same qualifications. Not even once. I've been in high tech for a couple of decades. The companies who sponsor do benefit from one thing and this also erodes the labor market: The H1b worker is not able to easily change jobs in the US. So it improves retention, which is a very big deal in tech. A lot of the H1b workers I've hired had post-grad degrees from American universities.

There is a dark side and some abuses occur. One of the worst are outsourcing companies, who are usually also based offshore. They operate in the US and import as many H1b workers as they can get and they do tend to pay them and they push for less-skilled workers. These guys displace American workers, especially for lower skilled, lower-degreed jobs.

So I will proudly call myself a 100% pro-immigration conservative. When the immigrant benefits this country, I say let them in.


I see your perspective and understand your what you are saying. However, like all good things they must be done in moderation. The immigration numbers are way too high and need to be drastically reduced. Legal reduced, illegal totally stopped.

Doing so for these types of jobs would benefit the country by training and hiring Americans to fill those positions. If there is a shortage and if you believe in capitalism those needed workers would be more highly compensated. Knowing there are high paying jobs out there for certain skill sets will entice more Americans to obtain those skill sets.

There was a reason these types of jobs started going to H1B holders. The companies didn't want to pay higher salaries. Why pay higher salaries when you can import workers and have more control over them. (You even provide and example)

63 340HP 05-12-2019 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by 68/70Vette (Post 1599388170)
Why does this matter when perhaps a million illegals will be waltzing into the country this year? It's so difficult to come here legally and so easy to come here illegally. At least the H1B applicants are educated, can presumably speak English, and .......importantly..... want to work.

Reading the actual report, the higher rate of denials is because of implementing advanced security measures.

At some companies the change (2015 to 2019) in initial Visa denial rate is 55% (for new applicant Visas), and with some companies as high as 34% for renewals (applications for continuing Visa).

The average denial rate is now 32% for initial Visas and 18% for renewals. That statistic does not mean much until you quantify it applies to 85,0000 issued H-1B Visa's every year. Over 27,000 H-1B applicants were denied a Visa based on better vetting, and over 15,000 existing H-1B Visa holders were denied renewal based on improved vetting (over 42,000 total 2019 denials based on security concerns, over 42,000 educated threat risks denied Visas).

The US does need educated immigrant labor, but not labor with a security risk and the higher potential for being a flight risk into the illegal resident category.

The OP article link addresses the opposition to the enhanced vetting by reporting that all H1-B openings remain filled:

In the meantime, the cap for H-1B visas has been reached for fiscal year 2020. Even as USCIS tightens the system, thatís clearly not dissuading companies from attempting to secure as many visas as possible. If that wasnít enough, these firms are providing H-1B candidates with all kinds of perks, including company-paid housing, funded relocation, travel expenses, and sponsorship for green cards.
The report authors have ties to the Cato Institute, so expect the leftist media to dismiss and attack the messengers.

Z Factor 05-12-2019 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by Builderrick (Post 1599388586)
It matters because it is part of the very same problem. Too much immigration PERIOD !

These people come in and then want their entire extended family coming in behind them.

We don't need them to fill ANY jobs. Fill the open jobs with AMERICANS first. Stop the B.S. that there aren't enough educated AMERICANS to fill the positions.

When they can't fill the positions with immigrants they will pay more to fill the positions with AMERICANS.

THAT is a win for THIS country.

A lot of that is accurate in certain sectors.

One profession that has me perplexed is doctors, as there are not enough medical schools for all the American applicants, and not enough residencies for those who do graduate. Yet the government is bringing in all sorts of foreign doctors, who is some cases have inferior education/training.
So it is not as if Americans wanting to be MD's is lacking, but if a school only takes 300 students out of the 5,000 that apply, why are not more medical schools popping up?
The same thing with residencies, with not enough positions to go around.

This group is trying to address the problem and asking for people to send emails and letters to their representatives;

https://news.aamc.org/for-the-media/...ctor-shortage/

We have some of the best and brightest minds in this country, yet are importing MD's, PA's and NP's from other countries instead of making sure our own citizens can get jobs in the healthcare fields. With Baby Boomers getting older and American MD's not able to keep up, we must find ways to get our kids into medical schools, and out practicing once they come out of school.

Red99SS 05-12-2019 02:54 PM


Originally Posted by 68/70Vette (Post 1599388170)
Why does this matter when perhaps a million illegals will be waltzing into the country this year? It's so difficult to come here legally and so easy to come here illegally. At least the H1B applicants are educated, can presumably speak English, and .......importantly..... want to work.

Because far as I know they can bring in family on an H4 visa.

vette6799 05-12-2019 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by Z Factor (Post 1599388950)
A lot of that is accurate in certain sectors.

One profession that has me perplexed is doctors, as there are not enough medical schools for all the American applicants, and not enough residencies for those who do graduate. Yet the government is bringing in all sorts of foreign doctors, who is some cases have inferior education/training.
So it is not as if Americans wanting to be MD's is lacking, but if a school only takes 300 students out of the 5,000 that apply, why are not more medical schools popping up?
The same thing with residencies, with not enough positions to go around.

This group is trying to address the problem and asking for people to send emails and letters to their representatives;

https://news.aamc.org/for-the-media/...ctor-shortage/

We have some of the best and brightest minds in this country, yet are importing MD's, PA's and NP's from other countries instead of making sure our own citizens can get jobs in the healthcare fields. With Baby Boomers getting older and American MD's not able to keep up, we must find ways to get our kids into medical schools, and out practicing once they come out of school.

There are a few problems with upping the numbers of doctors educated in the US.

First, increasing the number of doctors takes quite some time, particularly if you are starting a new med school. It takes years to build the physical plant and put together the faculty necessary to teach students. Then, four years of med school and another three to nine years of residency before someone is finished with training. 15 years is often given as the time it takes from concept until docs are practicing and in some cases, such as with surgeons, 15 year may be generous.

There has been a push for existing med schools to increase the size of their classes as some graduate 100 or fewer students a year, and in some cases this has occurred.

Second, government funding for residencies has been cut back for quite some time. The AAMC, the entity in your link, has been reporting doctor shortages for years now but no increased funding is available. Even graduates of US medical schools are not guaranteed residencies in many specialties. On top of that, with an ongoing physician shortage, it takes time away from a practicing physician's day to work with residents when you are already working very long hours.

Most foreign doctors do train in the US, at least in part, to get licensed. Right now, without them, the problem would be much worse.

While the AMA is a sucky organization and was responsible at one point for pushing for fewer doctors, that was quite some time ago.

Red99SS 05-12-2019 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by vette6799 (Post 1599389096)
There are a few problems with upping the numbers of doctors educated in the US.

First, increasing the number of doctors takes quite some time, particularly if you are starting a new med school. It takes years to build the physical plant and put together the faculty necessary to teach students. Then, four years of med school and another three to nine years of residency before someone is finished with training. 15 years is often given as the time it takes from concept until docs are practicing and in some cases, such as with surgeons, 15 year may be generous.

But that's like saying "There's no point in drilling for oil in Alaska, we won't see it for ten years!" and then ten years later saying "There's no point in drilling for oil in Alaska, we won't see it for ten years!"

Viking0728 05-12-2019 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by Builderrick (Post 1599387305)
https://insights.dice.com/2019/04/22...ocketing-2019/


More for the liberals to cry themselves to sleep at night.


TRUMP 2020 !

This is a great strategy if you want to be left behind in the global economy. Take a look at the makeup of most graduate engineering schools...

larrysb 05-12-2019 08:56 PM


Originally Posted by Builderrick (Post 1599388874)
I see your perspective and understand your what you are saying. However, like all good things they must be done in moderation. The immigration numbers are way too high and need to be drastically reduced. Legal reduced, illegal totally stopped.

Doing so for these types of jobs would benefit the country by training and hiring Americans to fill those positions. If there is a shortage and if you believe in capitalism those needed workers would be more highly compensated. Knowing there are high paying jobs out there for certain skill sets will entice more Americans to obtain those skill sets.

There was a reason these types of jobs started going to H1B holders. The companies didn't want to pay higher salaries. Why pay higher salaries when you can import workers and have more control over them. (You even provide and example)


It's not really possible to "train" someone up to PhD in Semiconductor Physics, or MSEE with a speciality in analytical computation, or even a BSCS with specific training in data sciences and proficiency in Python programming. These are graduate degrees that take years to earn, and a lot of very hard work and lots of personal motivation to pursue.

The "salary" argument is pretty much a canard as well. That's the assumption, but never once have any of the big name tech companies I've worked for paid any of them a nickel less than they'd happily pay a citizen. The primary problem is simply hiring highly educated and skilled workforces. The less pretty part is this favors very large corporations, who can in turn do the legal work of sponsoring their visas in bulk with outfits like Fragomen Law. It also reduces turnover, since it is much harder for an H1b worker to get a job somewhere other than for who sponsored his visa.

I'm not talking about some IT guy who resets the passwords and gives you an email account. Though we are short on those as well.

The outsourcing companies who setup operations in the US, do pull these kinds of stunts and pay lower wages.

RandolphB 05-12-2019 09:56 PM

In the early days of the H1B drama, I saw H1Bers hired under a lower job title, at a lower pay rate...and tasked with higher pay rate jobs. In other words, hire somebody, call them a Tech when they were an Engineer and pay them Tech wages. They took it to get a foot in the door here and never left. Eventually they get job advancement, and now only hire countrymen below them. Yeah, H1B's are a GREAT idea. :toetap:

Jim_H 05-13-2019 01:30 AM


Originally Posted by RandolphB (Post 1599391390)
In the early days of the H1B drama, I saw H1Bers hired under a lower job title, at a lower pay rate...and tasked with higher pay rate jobs. In other words, hire somebody, call them a Tech when they were an Engineer and pay them Tech wages. They took it to get a foot in the door here and never left. Eventually they get job advancement, and now only hire countrymen below them. Yeah, H1B's are a GREAT idea. :toetap:

:iagree:

Seen this happen time and time again.

larrysb 05-13-2019 02:08 AM


Originally Posted by RandolphB (Post 1599391390)
In the early days of the H1B drama, I saw H1Bers hired under a lower job title, at a lower pay rate...and tasked with higher pay rate jobs. In other words, hire somebody, call them a Tech when they were an Engineer and pay them Tech wages. They took it to get a foot in the door here and never left. Eventually they get job advancement, and now only hire countrymen below them. Yeah, H1B's are a GREAT idea. :toetap:

The way you stop this is free market.

The individual should be granted the visa, and it should be based on his qualifications. Is this *person* an asset to the USA?

Once the country lets him in, then he should be free to seek employment in the free market.

The system of sponsored visas has a lot of abuse potential because it is harder to move freely to other jobs. That's the only way someone can be paid less than market rate for the job.

Viking0728 05-13-2019 07:25 AM

True story About 10 years ago I tried to sponsor research with a large Florida university that was related to defense. In the graduate computer engineering program, I had a hard time finding a US Citizen to do the work. If you want to cut H1B visas, you better start getting your kids into STEM or we as a country are going to fall behind.

In India, the top students that can't get into Indian Institutes of Technology use our top schools as fall back programs. We have less than 400 million in population. China and India together have 2.5 BILLION. Guess who is going to have more STEM students.


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