Rear toe rod upgrade without an alignment?
 

1990 with coil-overs. Noticed the car feels a little loose recently and was sure I would find a bad wheel bearing. All four are tight- solid at 12 & 6 but I have very slight movement at 3 & 9 on one back wheel. Had another guy feel the toe rod end while I moving the wheel and we think its worn.

I'm looking at an upgraded rear toe rod kit from Banski or similar and wonder if I can do it with out needing an alignment.

Has anyone done this successfully?

Not advised. If you measure total length tie rod stud to stud and match it you will be close on total toe. The are DIY videos on alignment. Toe wears tires quick when out.

I should have worded my question differently: Can I the align the rear toe myself afterwards? I do not have anyone near me I would trust to align this car.

You can with string, jack stands and a tape measure. There are also a variety of aids available. Google DIY alignment. You still want to get total toe close, then you can tweak it as necessary.

I've been using this toe gauge for decades. Simple and easy and inexpensive.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...3f2df7cae3.jpg

….. DIY toe on the front is one thing but on the rear , its another bag of worms … you would need some pretty elaborate strings and jack stands to get the rear thrust angle and toe set properly … find someone with a Hunter Laser rack to do your 4 wheel alignment … be forewarned that the front requires shims and only a select few alignment techs have ever seen them , let alone have them … you might want to pick some up at the local parts house before your alignment appointment … even small changes in the rear geometry can dramatically alter the handling of the car and will quickly kill those fat tires …..

I do use a laser sight to make sure the rear thrust angle is correct. Good to 130+ mph and straight launches.

….. Annnnd … you have a solid rear axle , No IRS … no rear camber or toe adjustments …..

Thanks for the replies. I'll find someone to do a proper alignment.

This is the car: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...one-right.html

mseven built it and set the suspension up right. Though I never raced it, I have launched it a few times. Very fast and perfectly straight. Mick knew what he was doing and I certainly don't want to mess the car up.

:thumbs: I'm living in the past.

If the thrust angle is correct now, then you could replace one rear toe link at a time and set total toe in between. Then you'd retain correct thrust angle because you'd only adjust one side at a time. You can also use toe plates to set total toe, which are cheap and effective. That said, I'm not going to talk you out of having someone else align it. However, they need to be willing and able to use the locking collar and turning the tubes on each link to adjust the Banski (or similar) toe link. IOW, it's not the stock kind of adjustment. It's actually way easier, but some shops shy away from non-stock stuff.

I do recommend these rod-end type of rear toe links. The stock cam-style adjustment has a bad habit of slipping, no matter how tightly you crank down on the bolt.

I have a Banski kit on the way.

Dias Spring Service in Erie, PA did an alignment on my last C4 around 10 years ago. I remember it being difficult to find someone and Dias was recommended by a Corvette shop in Erie that is now long-gone. Seems like they only had one or two people familiar with C4s and the owner himself did the alignment. I remember him rolling his eyes when I told him the car had a poly bushing kit. He did a great job- the car felt great afterward.
I'll contact them again and post results.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...f69304411b.jpg
I did the whole Banski rear kit 2 years ago. Turns out one of the local Chevy garages has a guy that worked a lot of C4's. I turned my car along with the suspension settings I wanted used to him. I spent some time talking to him before taking the car down explaining and showing info on the Banski stuff. When I got it back, he said it was one of the easiest ones to align he'd come up against.

I spent a lot of time ahead of time getting settings as close as possible but the alignment was well worth it. Picture was taken mid upgrade, I had the various angles and locations via the plumb bobs that was my starting point when reassembled, did one side at a time.

To follow up:

Installed the Banski C4 Toe Rod Kit yesterday. Very easy to do. I had the car up in the air, but dropped it down until some weight was on the rear wheels to hold them in place. I used a puller to pop the ends out- they would have popped out with a tap of a hammer, but I was trying not to move the wheel. After bolting the center part and rods to the diff, I adjusted each toe rod until the outer Heim joint slid into place. I'm hoping the wheels are close enough to give me a little time before getting the alignment. Haven't had a chance to drive it yet.
Here is the result: Note the labels are conveniently facing the camera. Actually the one on the driver side ended up there but the passenger side was turned 1/4 turn for the picture. I put back where it was afterwards.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...5234b2b5eb.jpg

Looks good, I'm sure you're going to enjoy the difference in the way the car drives and rides. One additional thing I did because at times I'm a nervous Nelly, I made a jig and drilled each bolt for a cotter key. I didn't use a castle nut on every bolts, but did add a cotter key to each bolt to prevent them from ever falling off. Have not had an issue with the nuts coming loose but it gives me a bit of a warm and fuzzy feeling to know the nuts can't fall off over time.

PS I recommend the Banski kits, well worth the time and money IMO. I have no connection to Banski, other than having put the hardware on my car.
I will offer 2 cents worth of advise for anyone looking at the camber rod kits. I can't remember the exact measurements, but the fitting for the bottom knuckle is IIRC 1.7" while the knuckle opening on my 86 was 1.65". I had to reduce the dimensions of the cones that .05" to get them to fit. Not a big deal but took a while to figure out why they didn't fit initially.

How do you align the wheels with the car in the air? I could see aligning with the wheels off with hub stands but not with the suspension unloaded

I wasn't trying to get a final alignment done, rather close enough that once I had all 3 of the Banski kits installed that I could safely drive it 10 miles to get a 4 wheel alignment done.
With the parking brake set and the iron bolted onto the hub and the spring unhooked on that side I took a lot of measurements prior to starting. I used a jack stand under the rotor to keep the stuff at the same height, spring disconnected on 1 side. I used two angle gauges on the steel to get the angle plus use with the steel parallel to the ground I dropped 2 plumb bobs and made marks on the concrete where they were. Each of the Banski pieces I measured against the original part to get the lengths as close as possible to start. Once all the parts were changed out then I went against those original angles and marks to get corner as close as possible as I could to the original settings. Once one side was done then I moved onto the other side and repeated it. Wheels on and on the ground then some final checking.
I had taken angles on the wheels before I started plus measured tread to tread on the front and rear of the tires plus wheelwell height. Once done and on the ground, bounced the car a couple of times and took it around the block then pulled it back in and confirmed those angles again.
I drove it to where the alignment was to be done, and it wasn't too far off though I think it was better than before I started. Once the alignment was done, it was even better. My method isn't perfect but it was close enough for government work and to get it to the alignment shop.

Hope that clarifies what was done and why.

Sure. You can rebuild the entire suspension and still drive the car.

You can also change the tires and not re-balance.

I got it.

Originally, I was thinking it was just toe- one adjustment as compared to the front wheels, and if I could keep the wheels from moving I would be good. I now see how important it is for that toe setting to be precise.

One of the first things I do when I buy a car aside form tint the windows is pay for the lifetime alignment at the shop I take my car to. I have it checked several times a year and in cases where I have lowered the car or worked on the suspension, I just ran it by the shop and had them make adjustments.