The curse of perceived value
 

I've owned my vette for over 40 years and as more time passes, I find it sad that so many questions revolve around how much a certain mod or change affects the value. Fortunately many responders simply say 'it's your car, do what you want and don't worry about value'.

When I bought mine, it was more or less just a used car, slightly more desirable than others of the mid sixties but not by much. And while I didn't change it much as I preferred to retain its original appearance, whenever I made changes, I never gave any thought to a possible loss in perceived value. Even though it had two color changes before I owned it and needed a repaint, I simply chose a color I liked rather than go with its original color. I did use a popular vette color from latter years though but again had no thought of value.

But now even small mods like intake, exhaust, carb, shifter, etc have to be weighed against change in perceived value. And even worse, some cars don't get driven much for fear of collision damage.

Over these last 40 years, I've changed many things including engine and tranny with no concern over value. And I'm glad I never watch online auctions or the selling prices of similar cars might influence my driving habits!

If you can afford to buy one at these inflated prices, then you should be able to afford to change them as you see fit. They're not investments, they're simply cars, meant to be tinkered with and driven!

:iagree:

I really appreciate your perspective concerning the value of these cars and how easily it seems to be affected by minor changes and use. At 74 I have just begun my search for a C2 coupe and have kind of struggled with these issues because I'm the type of person that is pretty anal about the condition of my cars, but at the same time, I'm not interested in showing them, only driving them. When looking at these pristine, frame-off restorations, I quickly fall in lust but fear that I may not drive a car like that because of the probability that it would loose value by driving it much. I think I have finally convinced myself that I am too damn old to worry about any possible depreciation of a car. Why should I care if it looses a little value, I'm going to be dead for a long time.
Ted

​​​​​​When they didn't cost much, you had no reason to be concerned how what you did to them might change their "worth". The car was cheap, changing it was cheap, selling it was cheap, replacing it was cheap.
It's quite a lot different today. They are collectible, and expensive. A 55 to 60 year old car that costs say $80 -130,000 is not simply a car, at least for me. I don't buy "cars" that cost that money. I can't afford it. How many here can? If I have scraped together enough discretionary funds to treat myself to such an extravagant toy, I'm not about looking for ways to diminish its worth. I want to enhance its worth, if anything, while I enjoy owning it. Customizing it to my individual taste does not enhance its worth. It generally does the opposite.
Isn't it great that we do all not think alike, and there is more than one way to enjoy the classic car hobby?

One of the most appealing things to me about my '63 is that, while it has a mostly original appearance, at least to those who don't know that side exhaust and KO (or direct-bolt) wheels were not available then, I'm aware that very few of its components are the born-with pieces. It can be quite liberating.

While I can appreciate a Top Flight car as much almost as the next guy, I can't help thinking something was lost when that became the holy grail for so many people. It can be so confining. Park a Top Flight '56 next to Tom Parsons's '56, for example, and I can tell you which one I'll look at for a few minutes, and which one I'll study for hours, and which owner I'll badger with questions about his car until he tells me to get lost when he tires of answering them. It won't be the TF car.

Different strokes, but for me, my '63 is perfect because it isn't.

Live well,

SJW

I do my best to keep enjoyment of my cars separate from any financial concerns. I do not buy them for financial gain, I buy them to enjoy. If they happen to be worth something when I am done with them, that is a bonus but I don't plan on it. I also tend to buy things for the long term. I have had my 67 for fifty years and my 65, the new car, for 22 years. I turn 75 next week and I am way too old to worry about saving a car for the next owner. That said, I do prefer stock to modified and my cars are 99% stock. The fact that other owners prefer to modify their cars is what keeps this world interesting.
Doc

Agree 100%. Two things that would detract from my C2 being a hobby (fun) would be concern about impacting value or originality. Personalizing and modifying is part of the fun.... for me. Others find value and fun in returning their car to the way it rolled off the line in the '60's. Sometimes the discussions have the flavor of a party attended by only Rock musicians and accountants. Most of us are happy being one or the other and enjoy the squabbling from the sidelines because it's a hobby. We're so blessed because everything here is a First World Problem. Life is good!

I agree they are not investments if you bought the car when the prices were $20K. But if you are paying $100K, I think it's money you don't want to lose too easily [depending on your personal wealth].

The obsession with originality and it’s effect on price, I believe has been inadvertently driven by the NCRS, their TF cars get the big bucks.

IMO, the obsession with original blocks is absurd. When is the last time anyone said, "hey that's a beautiful original block"? I’ll bet the majority of existing C2s don’t have their original blocks, regardless of what the ‘experts’ say.

Also, many in here were driving a C2 fifty years ago, like I was; did you have the original window sticker back then? Probably not.

Did you, or anyone you knew, blow and engine, and replace it? Probably yes.

Did anyone in the 1960s save these depreciating cars to sell it for more money in fifty years? Definitely no.

All in all , these cars would be much more fun to own and drive if they weren’t so pricey; and the price is driven by the originality obsession.

Interesting thread, followed by thoughtful responses. It feels as though the demographics skew toward a more senior group, of which I'm in at 72. I'm still a business owner and have been extremely fortunate with both investments and ventures. My guess is there are more than a few on this forum that have similar backgrounds. With that in mind, the investment discipline in my DNA that got me here, steers me in a direction of keeping the car "original". However, at the same time, I want and deserve to enhance the car in ways that make it pleasurable and reliable. I would like to think that I will be making decisions to that end which are mindful and not stressful. The guiding principal behind owning this car was to enjoy the rest of the ride...

Actually I agree with you. I'm fortunate in that I did not have to spend a small fortune to own one. My point was it makes me sad that many are inhibited from doing things to the car that would increase their enjoyment of it because of a perceived value perspective. And I use that term 'perceived value' because it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There's absolutely no guarantee that keeping that paint color original will cost you money when it's time to sell as I imagine few people on this forum sell their cars at these big auctions where hype is everything.

FWIW, I've never been particularly happy that the value of my car has increased so damned much. I did not buy it as an investment and it only makes it more expensive to break things plus makes insurance much more costly. And now I fear a fender bender more than ever before.

Perfectly stated. My 65 has a 66 grill, no bumper, 67 rally wheels, triple tail lights, Hurst shifter, Fiero seats and a few chrome exterior pieces. Few non-experts would notice and in my opinion...and that's the only one that really matters in the end, it looks great.

You're absolutely right. The world has changed a lot, including the world of collectible cars. I know several long time owners of classic corvettes who took their cars apart back when they were just old cars, life got in the way and prevented them from completing, in some cases even starting, that restoration they had planned, and now they can't afford to do that restoration. The cars became collectible and very expensive in the meantime, and while they still own, they are priced out of the hobby. They effectively don't own an old corvette anymore, because they can't afford to do anything with that room full of car parts they have stored. Enjoy that old corvette you bought so long ago, and managed to hang onto all these many years.

Have to agree here. When I started buying Corvettes in the 70s, They were usually not a ton of money and customizing was pretty common. The attitude that many people had about not worrying about numbers of value was more understandable.

Quote:

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They're not investments, they're simply cars, meant to be tinkered with and driven!

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But I cannot agree that a $100,000 car is not an “investment.” Of course it’s an investment. This isnt a $5000 toy that doesnt matter what you do with it. The concept of not following value or “perceived value,” (which might better be described as “actual market value”) on a $100,000 asset is a perspective that I’ll never be able to wrap my head around.

Of course nickel/dime personalizations that can be unbolted in an hour are not relevant here. But making real decisions about making changes that really do diminish the actual market value of a $100,000 asset is a move that most people short of people who fly in space as a hobby should make with great thought.

:iagree:

I've never been into the "numbers matching" thing altho I have no issue with those who are. When I bought my project car it was with all major components original, and I figured "well, why not, if it works out?" When it was obvious that fixing the original frame would be extremely difficult and very costly, the fact that it was a base engine car with few options made that choice easy. And as SJW says, it was liberating. With the originality issue disposed of, I am not the last bit worried that something I plan may not be original. It's going to be the way I want it and since I plan to keep it until I'm gone or unable to ride in it, I really don't care whether it has high value, low value or no value. Of course I belly ache about the costs, it's natural, but I'm having fun which at my age is all that matters.

Again, I can appreciate and admire the high-dollar gems that are in the 6-figure range, congrats to those who own them and my hat is off to them. Except for the few of us who actually make a living off of these cars, we're all in it for the enjoyment and the fun is wherever you may find it. :cheers:

All great responses, I didn’t see myself going thru all the circles (bad choices, bad decisions, big prices paid..) I did in life & making it to be 65 today… Nor did I ever think I would own my dream cars of dream cars a Sting Ray (thats what we called them growing up in the city), I didn’t know the C2 years growing up but I knew I loved those Corvette Sting Rays, all of them, now here I am owning a 65 coupe..

Yes, I just got done converting my O.E. Numbers matching car to having power windows will it detract from the value? (I did use all NOS/used parts) who cares? someone will still buy the C2 @ current value, I try & keep it as best as I can to being original, but also to my personal taste.

I feel if I was looking again for a original C2 would it bother me much or justify lowering the asking price, if the owner installed power windows, Vintage a/c, Rochester Fuel Injection.. Not at all.. I don’t think those changes would justify lowering of the price..
Good luck to all u C2 lovers….

Ps, Here’s the Scenario I dream about - Friend tells me he knows of a all original/restore C2 for sale, we pull up to look at it & I see F/I emblems on the fenders owner comes out & shares yes its all original restored NON F/I car except I added this Rochester Fuel Injection unit on it for my taste, sorry if its a bummer guys.. ?? YES REAL BUMMER..;)

Agree that it is a curse and it is self -perpetuating. What I mean by that is personally, I don't give a hoot how much of a C2 is original, but the market really does. So, if you are someone like me who has saved enough to buy his first one (ie not rich) late in life and not in the best health, you think about your family being able to make a quick, easy sale when you croak and not have it depreciate too much.
I don't consider these cars as an investment, but they are an asset. At some point they will decline in value just like every other collector car has of this type. More original cars hold their value better, so it is just common sense for guys like me to place a higher value on more original card. Thus, it becomes self- perpetuating.

I like your outlook but have to disagree with you on the investment angle. Whether you care or not, these cars are indeed investments. Some better than others. The two mundane Pontiac GTO's I purchased for peanuts almost 40 years ago are worth 20-30 times the amount paid for them. I call that an investment. Not like real estate, but still, pretty darn good. I have a total of 4k wrapped up in each car as they sit...so an 8k turning into 80-90k in 35+ years is not too bad. Not only that, the cars have served as primary transportation that whole time. Never parked, never torn apart, never restored. Just beat on, used, repaired, and enjoyed.

CAGR is 9.13%. A lot more fun than looking at a stock certificate and it also gives you some bragging rights.

Interesting thread and nice to read the different perspectives. The great thing is that the love of the Corvette itself transcends our differences. It seems the price we pay for our Corvettes has quite a bit of bearing on how we fill about perceived value affecting our use and appreciation. I've from an era, and area that pretty much used (some might say abused) our Corvettes to the extent we thought they were built for, a sense of accomplishment, speed, and the outright intoxication of driving these magnificent machines at their limit, (it didn't hurt that the girls like them too) :) They weren't cheap, but they were affordable to the common man (a young man) back then. Easily and cheaply fixed and customization/individualization was common. Zora was quoted as saying that he provided the base car for a person to make it their car and for their use.

I have enjoyed seeing the pristine examples of perfectly restored Corvettes and can appreciate them, but if every Corvette is restored to absolute originality then I can walk through them pretty quickly. Pretty faces but little personality. When we used to go to Bloomington Gold in the early days the town was filled with Straight-Axles and Mid-Years and it seemed the majority had some modification. We would walk the entire parking lot just to see the differences, stopping to examine and compare the different looks, sometimes admiring, sometimes laughing and wondering why, but basking in the wide array of Corvettes. Not so common these days and in my opinion a loss of individuality/personality which is prevalent in our new cars today.

In the late 70's I was strongly considering painted my 63 peacock metalflake with flared fenders and my son was pushing for me to cut a hole in the hood and put a blower engine in it. I saw the market changing from customs, not to completely stock but in that direction so I left my car alone, but also left my sidepipes (but went to original style instead of Kustom Header sidepipes) and six tail lights. :) I guess then I was in that camp of not wanting to make changes that would detract from the value although since I was never going to sell the car it wasn't quite that either. I think it was more of an appreciation for the history of the car and to not take it too far away from that, which was putting my personal mark on it.

I of course would love to have a completely original 63 Z06, but I don't think there would really be a lot of joy in it compared to the history and memories I have in Ol Blue. You don't build many memories while parked in a garage. I think the perceived value (not only dollars, but family value) of Ol Blue does keep me from driving it like I would like to, but then opportunity has something to do with that too. Gotta love Steve Stone in his continued use of his 63.

My preferred daily driver for today would one that I would drive and park anywhere with abandon (like I used to). It would be what I call an old NCCC Corvette, roll bar, flared fenders, six taillights, side pipe headers, big tires and mag wheels and I'm afraid that I would have to add A/C to that list. Oh, and also a ROADSTER. :) :)
Keep on lovin'em all.
Gary

I have a 66 and 68 Vette and a 70 SS Chevelle. I have had the 68 for almost 50 years. If anything, it is a touchstone to the past. My son and I restored the Chevelle. I gave it to him. That car will be a touchstone for him. I am glad we are all enjoying our cars. Jerry