Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Smokehouse69)
 

Smoke, you went and ruined my day now, I dunno if to go GM dealer and try look up part numbers for valving/bars and try changing ....thing is...I have to asume what I have is one of the lighter touch ones....thing is, with that V8 on there, and my 255 tires, and overweight of about 3300 lbs...maybe slightly less....well any grand am has to weigh less and have smaller tires....less weight on them...and I"m over assisted....something about the logic of this situation that makes no sense.....that grand am I would think had absolutely NO road feel, if I"m overassisted NOW.....

GENE

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (mrvette)
 

Gene, sorry to mess up your day. :D Does anyone have the part number of the unit that Speed Direct is using in their Steeroids units? I'm still on the fence about purchasing their unit, but after pricing all new standard components I'd say that the Steeroids unit at the group discount isn't too awfully far from that price.

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Smokehouse69)
 

Smoke, you dun gone and blew hell out of my nice pretty little apple cart, you didn't just upset the damn thing, I"m scraping applesauce from the gutters!!!! you terrorist you..... :eek: :eek: :eek: :cheers:

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (mrvette)
 

Let me say a few more things and clarify my experience. On my '78 I actually didn't notice a reduction in steering feel when compared to the old steering. It was pretty boosted as it was. I would say that it is about the same feeling between the two systems. Also, the newer cars don't have the different holes in the steering arm for manual or power because only power was available. So the quickest ratio is always being used on the later cars. Now when the Steeroids was installed the ratio was actually quicker than stock. Turns lock-to-lock are about 2.5 with Steeroids and about 3 stock. So no matter how you look at it you will wind up with a quicker steering ratio when you install Steeroids.

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (burners)
 

The Steeroids system has been out for over a year now, and up until the last couple of days there have been very few , if any, complaints. If anyone did have any concerns it was usually very minor interference with the drivers side engine mount horn with can easily be cured with a little grinding. Anyone who has been working on these cars for very long knows that it's not uncommon to find as much as a 1/4" variation or tolerance in some places.

I got one of the first systems and installed it over a year ago and while I haven't put a ton of miles on the car since I've been working on other things, the improvement in steering precision has been very significant and immediately appearant.

I started out with a nearly brand-new, rebuilt original steering system, and the Steeroids was an improvement over that. As mentioned already, there is no slop whatsoever in the steering system with it, if you rotate the steering wheel, the tires immediately start to turn. Even with a brand new rag joint, rebuilt and adjusted steering box, along with all new tie rod ends, ball joints, bearings, etc, there was still as much as a 1/2" or so each way of slack in the steering. Also, we all know how these cars handle ruts in the road and how they like to wander, especially at speed. As a result, the stock steering felt very sloppy, and loose at high speeds - not very confidence inspiring.

Also as mentioned, the steering ratio with the Steeroids is much tighter, only around 2.5 turns lock to lock. These are all significant improvements, and when you add in the lighter weight and the ease of installtion I think it's an easy decsion to make in favor of the Steeroids system. I really don't understand this loss of feel people seem to be complaining about. To me it feels much more secure and confidence inspiring since there is not slack or slop, the car doesn't wander, and the steering doesn't feel so light at speed that you wonder if the front wheels are even touching the road as with the stock system. Personaly, I can do without that kind of "road feel", and I have never thought that it has a Cadillac feel to it.

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (mrvette)
 

As Gene said,it is well worth the price and effort.Yes I would like more "feel" back but not to the point of going back oem.I will try Speed directs advice and see.

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (J75)
 

Monty and I are in exactly the same spot overall opinions....except I would like maybe twice as much effort to turn the wheel at any speed...that's all....

tell you what...at 130 mph....even on rutted sands Florida roads....it's steady as a rock....before, the only place I felt like doing that speed would hve been the Buckman bridge here next door....but now a daze the cops are all over that thing more than sunshine....so all good thing must come to an end...besides the traffic volume all the time now is just can't do it....

GENE

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (mrvette)
 

I haven't installed mine yet but was planning o this weekend.

I have a question. I have a 70 and no power steering. I was planning on putting a pump on later. The car is in the process of being refurbished and won't be driven for at least another 6 months.

I had the understanding, prior to purchasing Steeroids, that it wasn't necessary to have a power steering pump. Is this not correct? If it must have a pump, no problem, I'll get one. I think I will wait to get a pump until some of this "road feel" stuuf gets settled.

Thanks in advance for answers.

Gordy

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (NEVR L8)
 

Gordy, you need belts, pulleys, and brackets besides the pump....
I would take some PS fluid and just splice the two ends of the input/output hoses together with some hose...filling the unit much as possible...that shuld keep lubrication ok untill you get thing finished....I wouldn't do any autocrossing or long drives with it that way..but for intermittant useage it's fine...

GENE

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (NEVR L8)
 

It's fine to run Steeroids without the power assist. Don't worry about lubrication, the seals are lubed when they are assembled.

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Smokehouse69)
 

Here's a tidbit I found on the CTO racks.. (Grand Am, etc.)

The same page I found this on also notes that the early/late racks ARE interchangable.

Apparently the racks changed after 1986, and after 1991. The 1992-up racks have the variable-assist option. Don't know how that works though, if a special pump is required or is it electronic? What's interesting is the part numbers are the same for with and without variable assist, which tells me it's an external component that makes it variable assist.

Also, the stock T-T-L is 2.8, and the "performance" version I believe is as low as 1.8. (At least for the 87-91 racks.)

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Ken73)
 

Glad to hear you can use the system temporarily without the pump. My car is not completly assembled but it does go on trip around the block from time to time.

I'm still going to wait for a resolution to the assist adjustment issue before I go ahead with the installation.

I never experienced the slack in the steering that some of you mentioned. Yes, it felt like it required a death grip on the wheel and total focus to keep from darting around in your lane. I hope it's not just the loss in feedback feel that seems to make it go away.

:steering:

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (vettery)
 

I agree with the more caster in alingment. More positive caster helps high speed stabillity by giving the steering "centering" if you were to let go of the wheel. The more caster, the more effort it takes to turn the car because it actually raises the car - left turn, left front corner raises - right turn, right raise. Since more pos caster raises the car in a turn, the steering needs to overcome the weight as well the forces created in a turn. This is called "retunability" More caster would aid in returnability and give a more positive and safe feel. The only problem is the ability to get that much caster from the stock upper control arms.
VB&P sold tubular upper control arms that added a good deal more caster.
Does anyone know if they still sell them?

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (71coupe)
 

Yes, they still sell them. :cheers:

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Ken73)
 

The variable assist system that was used on GM-N cars (Pontiac Grand Am etc.) was called EVO (electronic variable orifice). There is a special electronic valve on the discharge fitting of the pump. There is a computer that regulates the output flow of the power steering pump as a function or vehicle speed. At highway speeds, the output flow from the pump was greatly restricted (from 3.2 gallons per minute down to 1.4 gallons per minute - for example). The steering gear valve was specifically designed to work with the lowered flow from the pump. With the flow from the pump restricted, the steering gear valve becomes less responsive and your steering effort goes up.

Now here is the thing you want to look out for. You do not want to use a gear designed for EVO in a vehicle that has a standard power steering pump (i.e. a pump that puts out something around 3 gallons per minute at highway speed.) The high flow through the EVO valve will make the steering very light and the gear could even feel darty.

NV7 is the GM option code for variable assist steering. You do not want a gear from a vehicle with NV7.

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Jim Shea)
 

Damn it's nice to have Jim Shea around!
:cheers:

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Jim Shea)
 

Jim, was the EVO controlled by the ECM in the car, or was it a seperate module? If it was seperate, is it possible to get the EVO and control module and have the variable-assist?

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Ken73)
 

I know that Jeep had EVO for a while on the old style Grand Cherokee. It had a stand alone controller. The Saturn EVO was integrated into the chassis computer right from the start of production. I think that some of the other GM N-car and B-car EVO systems may have been stand alone as well. I will need to check back with some of my contacts at Delphi.

Since the C3s were basically yestertech, you will have to generate some sort of digital vehicle speed signal in order to make the system work. (The 1982 model had some sort of computer control). I believe that some aftermarket cruise control systems utilize some sort of a sensor that is attached to the drive shaft.

The EVO control valve should screw right into the back of the Corvette pump where the current discharge fitting is located.

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (Jim Shea)
 

i have a couple of questions...
maybe i missed something here but is what you all are saying is that the rack that is used with Steeroids is a Grand Am rack? i am just curious which rack is actually used...

and also...with all this talk about "light feel"...isnt there a non power version of Steeroids too? and if so, how does it feel that way? without the power?
if it feels less "light" it would be great to be rid of the pump, belts and pullys etc...
somebody please enlighten me...

Re: Steeroids installs..facts/opinions (SIGNGUY)
 

I'm with signguy, I would like to improve the steering and get rid of that extra stuff. Adding Power Steering fluid is a PITA and it would be great if I didn't need it at all.


[Modified by 74 vert, 5:22 PM 2/23/2003]