Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (Parking Brake ISSUE)
 

Out there are some quite brilliant INOVATIVE engineers. We all know this just by looking/reading forum posts.
Seems the big issue with the parking brake system affects one heck of a load of owners,like it seldom works or especially holds the car.
Ever thought how much DOSH could be earned by patening a corrective system to sort out some of these woes???????
One heck of a lot of us have gone down the full stainless replacement route only to find that we still get little improvement,mainly i think to the actual distance of pull on the front cable to equaliser(even new cables stretch a little).
After 3+decades surely its about time we had a solution to this.
Now im no engineer but how about these considerations??
(1) a new designed pulley system to replace the one below handbrake, either adjustable or with a larger diameter pulley, or an extra idler pulley or indeed all 3 options combined. This combined with some sort of device to allow more take up on the front cable at the equaliser would surely go a long way to helping. OK i once had 2" removed from the front cable by a steel rope manufacturer and it worked dandy till everything else called it a day, that was before i rebuilt everything in stainless and then spent hour upon hour adjusting everything in the hubs to hold(just) and then im on the 12th notch on the handle.Heck thats near verticle.! Sure all the manuals imply should lock up on 14 notches BUT why not before, my shortened cable did it on 6 to 8 solid without any drag or overheating and that was with 16 years wear on the rest of the system.
I apreciate few of us may have access to some one who can shorten the cable safely and sucessfully but im darn sure everyone would welcome a corrective inovation once and for all.
SO OVER TO YOU ENGINEERING GUYS TAKE A LOOK, THERE MAY BE$$$ IN THIS FOR THE RIGHT IDEA??

Best wishes Sarasota Sam :cheers:

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (SARASOTA SAM)
 

I was thinking you were a Florida resident, and wondering why you would care, then I spotted your what apparently is England addy.....so now I understand,....

the only thing to be done is change out the rear calipers for those with mechanically applied pads/piston via parking brake....it's about the only way, UNLESS you get one on the driveshaaft.....like many truck might use....

frankly, use first or parking gear......not worth the time/effort.....

GM should have known that small diameter shoes like that can't hold against the car weight on any hill, especially in reverse....

GENE

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (mrvette)
 

Being an engineer, I'm not sure how anyone could have thought they could hold the car. I would think the intent was more of an "emergency" brake, like if your entire braking system failed, you could quickly pull back on the handle and apply some mechanical braking. When parking on a hill, you're supposed to use "Park" and turn the wheels to one side or the other (in case the gear slips) to roll the car off the road.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (Ace77)
 

The problem is with the small diameter of the shoes.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (wombvette)
 

mine works fine in holding the car from rolling backwards,doesnt work for squat for any forward movement.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (1971corvette)
 

Mine don't work for poopie... Was actually thinking about pulling most of the extra junk that makes up the e-brake.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (wombvette)
 

OK we are lead to believe its the diameter of the shoes or is it?
There are loads of different manufactured/models of cars of vette weight worldwide that use similar diameters/setups and their systems work and even lock up rear brakes at 20-30mph. (hand-brake turns!).
Icant really hold with diameter argument wholely,if that was so how come some people say their systems work right and my old gear with a shortened front cable seemed to do the job?? Thats why i think its a fulcrum/tension thing were after to make the original design work properly today.
As an emergency brake (ie) to apply some braking effort to rear if hydrolics failed and to attempt to bring car to a stop surely when G.M.had to have the Vette fedral safety tested for production to commence this system must have worked to fedral testing requirements.If there was a problem then it would have been redesigned by G.M. to pass. (Heck Edsels, Ralph Nader,Firestone,
Law Suites,etc. etc.)
Stick shift Vettes as you apreciate have no "park" gear and rely more on this system than autos and there are tons of stick shifts out there worldwide.
Annual vehicle road safety test like the British M.O.T. test this system on a rolling road for functionality if it fails your off the road:this applies to many countrys and many U.S. states too.
So to recap its a simple cost effective modification thats needed (maybee something thats as i suggest more adjustable/pulley diameter/idler/tension equaliser or even piston augmented to front cabling.
:cheers:

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (Ace77)
 

A complete 2 wheel secondary braking system is not bad, while it does need to work better, have stopped mine w/ it when the brakes failed after a lot of 0-100-0 runs. Have stopped other cars w/ the e-brake that had full size drums, none seem to work very well, just an e-brake.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (Ganey)
 

OK, Here is the way to do it. I think it would work well. First remove the rotors and the shoes. Have the rotor surface and the shoes matched to each other. The old brake shops used to do this with the old drum systems. This will allow full even contact of the pads. Then modify the pivot applicator by reworking the shoulder where it contacts the shoe. That point could be reshaped and widened to make a little more application travel. If you want to get real industrious you could even lengthen the part of the pivot that the cable attaches to and even change the attachment method if needed. That would give a little more application force, but at the cost of a little cable travel.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (wombvette)
 

Great constuctive comments "WOMBVETTE" now were thinkin.
Lets hope there's more to come.
Im sure the answer lies in the front cable system though,if we can get more tension/pull on this without this "12 notch"excessive travel of the handle we may well be on our way to a cure.(if you really pull the handle righ past 12 even say to the 16th notch they will probably lock up BUT your now around the 2 oclock position (not easy to obtain with righ hand when trying to stop a car thats lost its brakes in traffic.) What im sure we all would like is a handle upward travel of a FEW inches from fully off position that will hold car and slow it down considerably in an emergency situation.HOPEFULLY SAVING LIFE. :thumbs:

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (wombvette)
 

Being an engineer, I have considered designing a system that would actually work, It may involve a completely new caliper. I could design something up, but I don't have the means to mass produce it. If I could sell my idea to an aftermarket brake company, like vette brakes, then I would. I don't know how well it would sell for them, and whether it would have a decent Return on Investment. The cost for the tooling and automation to produce these would probably be pretty costly. If I end up making a prototype version for my 81, I'll post pics and then you all can decide how much it would be worth to buy.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (Willis)
 

For what it's worth - the owners manual refers to this as a parking brake, not an emergeny brake. They probably knew it wasn't really strong...

I've done the stainless thing. Mine will lock the car up tight in reverse and on any steep hill, but they are worthless going forward... :confused:

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (SARASOTA SAM)
 

BTW - If you are planning on getting new parking brake componets Vette Brake sells everything in stainless steel.

http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=63


[Modified by 71coupe, 4:30 PM 7/7/2004]

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (Z-man)
 

For what it's worth... I've had mine completely rebuilt with new components...all it did is go from basically no effect to just slowing down the ability for the car to "roll away". I like the comment of an "emergency brick" for parking... it's more effective. Nonsense... but , more effective. :banghead:

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (80TexasC3)
 

I actually carry a pair of collapsible wheel chocks in the jack compartment.

I never realized the C3's parking brake setup was so inadequate. Mine is completely unfunctional now, but it was next on my list to repair/rebuild.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (wcsinx)
 

Again.. and in the lessons learned file... I paid quite a bit to have it rebuilt along with the entire brake system... Feel like I was "taken". See my thread "Parking Brake - As good as it gets?".

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (80TexasC3)
 

I'll go look it up. Now I'm seriously questioning whether I should spend money on my e-brake or not. :confused:

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (80TexasC3)
 

BTW - If you are planning on getting new parking brake componets Vette Brake sells everything in stainless steel. http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=63

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and you'll find that the SS parking brake shoes are arched wrong and you will have to sand off 1/2 of the pad on the ends just to make the rotor slide over. plain english, the ss shoes are junk.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (Van Steel)
 

Agreed, I have had little luck with SS kits. Some of the pivots will break easily because they are smaller diameter than original.

Re: Engineers! Get a "GRIP" on this (wombvette)
 

My parking brake actually works well! I bought rebuilt trailing arms from Baer's in PA with new rotors and e-brakes installed and set up properly by them. I also got a new cross cable. CT requires the parking brake to work to pass safety inspection (when they required one a couple of years ago) and I had no problem passing. Joe