I will be doing a few dyno pulls soon and will post my numbers. I have LGM LTs, LGM mail order tune, 160 Tstat and K & N Intake. The car runs awesome and the headers and tune made equal substantial improvements. I drove for about 500 miles with headers and no tune. I could feel the headers, could feel the tune when added, and could feel the K & N when added. Btw, I just purchased a code reader and -0- codes.

The headers definitely make a difference.

 

I just wish somene would post their results of adding headers to a car allready with a tune and or CAI. I suspect there will be little gain from the headers when added after a tune.

 

Hey Mike,

I suspect that Katech already has dyno results in their files showing how much additional hp. & torque you would gain adding just headers. Maybe even on an engine dyno ?

Katech probably even have comparitive tests looking at one brand of header vs. another.

I think they might even have tested various CAI's, both as a stand alone, and with different headers, to see if one combination is better than another.

Katech probably also has... before and after data with CPM tuning... but I don't know for sure.

CPM tuning is becoming a very sensitive issue... what with warranty claims and such. I would rely on Katech's tuning for street applications as baseline. I think it would be a conservative tune and not likely to cause engine damage or failures.

Many of us have chimed in questioning the accurateness of various Dyno results... people are using different brands of dyno's and conversion factors. Dyno rwhp. values can be manipulated... which is why I suggested that maybe Katech would chime in with information we could trust.

Jason may be able to give us a general idea of what we could expect with these mods, without disclosing proprietary information.

I will chip in a Flying Five (with Linclon's picture on it) if we need to have testing done.

Cya @ the track,

Trumper

 

HMMMM, all those choices and they go with KOOKS.


He sure could, but then he'd have to kill you.


With Painrace, yourself and I, we're up to $15. We are close, very close.........



Mike

 

With Painrace, yourself and I, we're up to $15. We are close, very close.........



Mike [/QUOTE]

Hey Mike, if no one else chips in... we can buy each other a beer or two @ the VIR/NCM event... and bench race the discussion.

Trumper

 

Heck, we can do that regardless....

 

We've only done 1 C6Z06 header/tune-only upgrade. Everybody else coming to us is going much further. That car showed 40rwhp gain from the headers and tune. My suspicion is that it can be attributed 50/50 headers/tune, but that is only my educated guess.

Yes, we have done comparative tests with a few header brands, but some of the top players have improved their designs even more since then and it would be unfair to make choices simply based on last year's testing. I can say that we make our choices due to many factors.

We have A-B tested a few CAI systems, some only briefly, and at the moment I'm waiting for more data and more options to say which one we like best. We're open to using Callaway, K&N and Halltech's new killer bee system when it comes out.

I have been an advocate of clearing the air about chassis dyno systems and I've been known to chime in when things get out of control. Its a loosing battle. Chassis dynos are great tools for tuning, A-B testing, and measuring the same car on the same dyno for baseline and final results. They are terrible for use as a yardstick to compare people's products between different dynos and different types of dynos thousands of miles away. When you see these claims, you need to look at them with a descriminating eye and make your own conclusion. Naturally people want to make their products look good, and whether intentional or not, data can sometimes be deceiving. Its important to look at independent testing. We don't manufacture headers or cold air intake systems, so we have no bias. In a way, I could care less who is best. We are going to chose products which have the best balance of performance, fitment, drivability, quality, and integrity.

 

For an honest test for the next guy installing headers

Why don't you TUNE the car before headers are installed and see what the numbers are and then install the header retune and see what the numbers are then.

It doesn't matter what type of dyno or hearders are being used but it should show the HP gains just adding headers.

 

IC engines are air pumps. All the pieces must work in concert to get the most air thru the engine and make the most effective use of that air to make power. (improving VE can increase power but only if the additional air flow ends up increasing BMEP) Headers are just one part of the package and they must be sized and tuned for the application. So called header comparisons are only valid for the set of hardware tested and may not be valid for other combinations. IMHO. Piecemeal additions of "power " adders is not the way to go. You are better off doing a group of well matched mods to get the desired result my $00.02 and worth every thing you paid for it ...LOL

 

Very well said!

 

for me,a header only mod is not worth the money...
now if i were building a motor with cam, head work,cai, high flow cats, tune, i would include headers as part of the package

as stated above...dyno's are only for tuning a car and seeing what the hp gain the mods have made....sotp is all in the head as far as i can tell....the only accurate way to know if the mods work is with the timing clock...did it make the times faster....and by how much...

 

I will give you some numbers on header and will post the dyno up later this week. I took my car and tuned it myself using hp tuners. Put it on the dyno with stock air filter. Stock no tuning...445hp, with tune....458hp. Bought halltech's air filter and kooks 1 7/8 headers.......463hp. 1700 headers and 200 filter.....5 hp. Then I pull the air filter on the dyno and 474hp a gain of 11hp. Thats pretty good for free. I don't think the restriction is headers its the air filter even halltech's. After seeing this on the dyno I am dissapointed in the numbers. I will be posting dyno graphs this week. All numbers SAE correted on the same dyno....

 

I agree, I would not put headers on a car that was not getting more. However, I continue to be amaized by the number of posts claiming HP! There is some talk about torque but not a lot. There is not much discussion at all about throttle response. What type of throttle response did you get with the filter and headers? If you look at the C6R you will see Katech gives the car gobs of torque and yes good HP but you can bet it has outstanding throttle response. It may be that most of the posters are drag racers and I have limited knowledge in that area.

Best of luck with your additional mods.

 

Race cars don't generally go around with a 120LSA cam either. No tight LSA, no scavenging. IE, I would not predict much gain w/this stock cam.

 

There seems to be a presumption in several of the posts on this thread that all tunes are created equal.

In fact, tuning the ECM/PCM involves highly specialized skills and proprietary approaches that can produce different outcomes.

Ranger

 

 

completely.

Headers will work well in conjunction with a cam with more overlap, where a well tuned/constructed header can increase scavenging. Without significant exhaust/intake overlap, the header/exhaust manifold merely has to prevent restriction in exhaust flow, and I believe you'll find they work basically the same. That's probably why Katech hasn't done many header/tune only setups, and strongly recommends headers with its Torquer cam.

I've written this many times on this forum: It's all about the combination.

"Race cars don't generally go around with a 120LSA cam either. No tight LSA, no scavenging. IE, I would not predict much gain w/this stock cam."

Yep, what he said.

 

Cause and effect work hand in hand.

 

Guesss what? You can decide NOT to buy headers then! )

 

Thats not why. Headers/tune-only are a great start with fantastic results. Its just that people who are coming to us usually are looking for more. People don't generally ship their car halfway across the country to have headers installed.