C5 Upper Contols Arms Threaded Inserts in Frame
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 10
From: Oakville ON "Real Corvettes have folding tops..."
C5 Upper Contols Arms Threaded Inserts in Frame
I broke on of the upper control arm threaded inserts and it is now loose in the frame?? Anyone have this problem and is there a fix for this??
I had unbolted the upper contol arm to let it down to remove the front spring. Found out I have to release the lower ball joint as I could not get the spring out. I think I'm doing this wrong so advice in this area would also be appreciated.
Pressing problem is the inserts. I am told someone makes an upper contol arm stud kit would this solve my problem??? Anyone know about this???
I had unbolted the upper contol arm to let it down to remove the front spring. Found out I have to release the lower ball joint as I could not get the spring out. I think I'm doing this wrong so advice in this area would also be appreciated.
Pressing problem is the inserts. I am told someone makes an upper contol arm stud kit would this solve my problem??? Anyone know about this???
Team Owner
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 34,551
Likes: 505
From: Auburn Hills MI
I just re-read your post....you broke the insert? I don't know what it looks like behind the wheel liner,do you have a pic?
Stud kit won't help, it screws into the same piece as the bolt.
If I remember correctly you do not need to remove the lower ball joint to get the spring off, just taking the uppers off and use a bottle jack to raise up the lower using the lower ball joint as a raise point. You will need to disconnect the sway bar to make the job easier.
Seperating the LBJ is a PITA but if you use the cheapo Autozone(Canadian Tire) Pitman arm seperator it works great. The ball joint seperators don't fit around the knuckle but the pitman arm ones do just fine. If your careful you won't damage the boots at all.
Stud kit won't help, it screws into the same piece as the bolt.
If I remember correctly you do not need to remove the lower ball joint to get the spring off, just taking the uppers off and use a bottle jack to raise up the lower using the lower ball joint as a raise point. You will need to disconnect the sway bar to make the job easier.
Seperating the LBJ is a PITA but if you use the cheapo Autozone(Canadian Tire) Pitman arm seperator it works great. The ball joint seperators don't fit around the knuckle but the pitman arm ones do just fine. If your careful you won't damage the boots at all.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 10
From: Oakville ON "Real Corvettes have folding tops..."
The problem insert broke free and can't remove bolt.
Rear holes drivers side bolts removed
Close up of inserts on passenger side
I need to replace the insert on the drivers side.
Shocks have been removed. I am installing 2004 Z06 Springs shocks and sway bars and this is one of those PIA delays.
Anyone had this problem???
Rear holes drivers side bolts removed
Close up of inserts on passenger side
I need to replace the insert on the drivers side.
Shocks have been removed. I am installing 2004 Z06 Springs shocks and sway bars and this is one of those PIA delays.
Anyone had this problem???
Team Owner
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 34,551
Likes: 505
From: Auburn Hills MI
Ouch....btw from the pic of the broken you need to support the suspension. From the way the bushing is deflected looks like you just have it hanging there.
Put a bottle jack under the ball joint or the bottom of the spring and jack it up a bit to take all the weight off of the upper control arm.
I can't image how that broke...is the frame steel or aluminum?
Does it move in and out or just spin?
Have to see what it looks like on the other end. Hopefully its like a weldnut and its an insert and welded on the other side. You can just weld it up again.
I'm sure one of the shops like DRM or LG has taken the cars down to the point where the entire frame is exposed to see what it looks like.
Put a bottle jack under the ball joint or the bottom of the spring and jack it up a bit to take all the weight off of the upper control arm.
I can't image how that broke...is the frame steel or aluminum?
Does it move in and out or just spin?
Have to see what it looks like on the other end. Hopefully its like a weldnut and its an insert and welded on the other side. You can just weld it up again.
I'm sure one of the shops like DRM or LG has taken the cars down to the point where the entire frame is exposed to see what it looks like.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,064
Likes: 4
I think that is going to be the fix.
I have always worried about those threaded points in the frame, last time I had my A arms out, I ran a thread chaser through just to clean up the threads to avoid problems later. Its a 10 x 1.25 if I remem correctly.
Contact Gary Hoffman at HArdbar USA. He is a forum vendor and he does sell the best stud kit going. He really knows his chit. So will have a remedy for you. Go slow........
Good luck.
I have always worried about those threaded points in the frame, last time I had my A arms out, I ran a thread chaser through just to clean up the threads to avoid problems later. Its a 10 x 1.25 if I remem correctly.
Contact Gary Hoffman at HArdbar USA. He is a forum vendor and he does sell the best stud kit going. He really knows his chit. So will have a remedy for you. Go slow........
Good luck.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
Likes: 9
From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
guess if you can't weld you will need a mobile service. I wouldn't weld it all up but do somethng from the sides trough some openings and then close them up.
Last edited by John Shiels; Oct 28, 2007 at 10:51 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 31
From: scio or
That insert is a nutsert, so its not actually part of the frame. Hardbar's stud kit won't fix that - you'll need to remove that insert and replace it.
The trouble is that the insert expands the frame a bit when it is installed. I don't know if simply replacing it will work, but its worth a shot.
You'll need a nutsert install kit and STEEL inserts, not aluminum.
This is why I dropped studs into mine when I did the bushings (and why Hoffman now sells a stud kit).
The trouble is that the insert expands the frame a bit when it is installed. I don't know if simply replacing it will work, but its worth a shot.
You'll need a nutsert install kit and STEEL inserts, not aluminum.
This is why I dropped studs into mine when I did the bushings (and why Hoffman now sells a stud kit).
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 89
From: Indy IN
nasty problem...
Probably need to get out the ole die grinder....
grind off the head of the bolt (and make sure you don't loose the bolt and insert back into the frame)... and then weld the insert back onto the frame with a bead around the edge, then unscrew what is left of the bolt and chase the threads...
Probably need to get out the ole die grinder....
grind off the head of the bolt (and make sure you don't loose the bolt and insert back into the frame)... and then weld the insert back onto the frame with a bead around the edge, then unscrew what is left of the bolt and chase the threads...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 10
From: Oakville ON "Real Corvettes have folding tops..."
I think that is going to be the fix.
I have always worried about those threaded points in the frame, last time I had my A arms out, I ran a thread chaser through just to clean up the threads to avoid problems later. Its a 10 x 1.25 if I remem correctly.
Contact Gary Hoffman at HArdbar USA. He is a forum vendor and he does sell the best stud kit going. He really knows his chit. So will have a remedy for you. Go slow........
Good luck.
I have always worried about those threaded points in the frame, last time I had my A arms out, I ran a thread chaser through just to clean up the threads to avoid problems later. Its a 10 x 1.25 if I remem correctly.
Contact Gary Hoffman at HArdbar USA. He is a forum vendor and he does sell the best stud kit going. He really knows his chit. So will have a remedy for you. Go slow........
Good luck.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 250
grind head off bolt or:
get lucky by:
1) put other end back in to take pressure off the stuck end
2 pry on the arm to put frictional pressure on the spinning nutsert against the frame.
3) put max air pressure in your airgun in reverse...pray alot and then pulse it quickly with the airgun.
If you are really lucky it will come out. Then stud it! or use antirotational nutsert of haigh enough grade. There are grade 8 nutserts made. See "aircraft spruce and specialty" or mcmaster carr catalog
get lucky by:
1) put other end back in to take pressure off the stuck end
2 pry on the arm to put frictional pressure on the spinning nutsert against the frame.
3) put max air pressure in your airgun in reverse...pray alot and then pulse it quickly with the airgun.
If you are really lucky it will come out. Then stud it! or use antirotational nutsert of haigh enough grade. There are grade 8 nutserts made. See "aircraft spruce and specialty" or mcmaster carr catalog
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 12,430
Likes: 915
From: CONCORD NC
You have two options, find a local body shop that has a metric "nutsert" kit. They can simply drill out your nutsert, and install a new one. They go in a bit like pop-rivets.
The other option (which I have done a couple of times) is cut a hole one the inside of the frame (facing the engine) for access, and put nuts and washers on the backside of the frame. This method is actually stronger, as the nutserts aren't very strong. They are great for assembly at bowling green, but the tend to get damaged very easily.
***If anybody has the nutsert kit and metric nutserts, I'd love to borrow it****
The other option (which I have done a couple of times) is cut a hole one the inside of the frame (facing the engine) for access, and put nuts and washers on the backside of the frame. This method is actually stronger, as the nutserts aren't very strong. They are great for assembly at bowling green, but the tend to get damaged very easily.
***If anybody has the nutsert kit and metric nutserts, I'd love to borrow it****
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,151
Likes: 20
I didn't know they were inserts on those holes as I have never looked at them carefully, but the strongest inserts that I know of are timeserts. Drill out the old one with the recomended size bit that is needed to install the new one. If you go bigger the new one won't grab.
http://www.timesert.com/
-V
http://www.timesert.com/
-V
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 31
From: scio or
I didn't know they were inserts on those holes as I have never looked at them carefully, but the strongest inserts that I know of are timeserts. Drill out the old one with the recomended size bit that is needed to install the new one. If you go bigger the new one won't grab.
http://www.timesert.com/
-V
http://www.timesert.com/
-V
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 31
From: scio or
You have two options, find a local body shop that has a metric "nutsert" kit. They can simply drill out your nutsert, and install a new one. They go in a bit like pop-rivets.
The other option (which I have done a couple of times) is cut a hole one the inside of the frame (facing the engine) for access, and put nuts and washers on the backside of the frame. This method is actually stronger, as the nutserts aren't very strong. They are great for assembly at bowling green, but the tend to get damaged very easily.
***If anybody has the nutsert kit and metric nutserts, I'd love to borrow it****
The other option (which I have done a couple of times) is cut a hole one the inside of the frame (facing the engine) for access, and put nuts and washers on the backside of the frame. This method is actually stronger, as the nutserts aren't very strong. They are great for assembly at bowling green, but the tend to get damaged very easily.
***If anybody has the nutsert kit and metric nutserts, I'd love to borrow it****
Check here:
http://www.imperialinc.com/items.asp?item=0088450
M10x1.5 nutserts. Just buy the installation tool with a pack of them. No need for a whole other nutsert gizmo.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 10
From: Oakville ON "Real Corvettes have folding tops..."
David -
Check here:
http://www.imperialinc.com/items.asp?item=0088450
M10x1.5 nutserts. Just buy the installation tool with a pack of them. No need for a whole other nutsert gizmo.
Check here:
http://www.imperialinc.com/items.asp?item=0088450
M10x1.5 nutserts. Just buy the installation tool with a pack of them. No need for a whole other nutsert gizmo.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 894
Likes: 1
From: Bethel Township Ohio
They are not just a nutsert "clamped" to the frame rail. There is a backing block on the back side of the frame rail. The frame is way to thin to just crimp a nutsert in. Mine were pulled out when I wrecked the race car. I took a 1/2 inch thick piece of bar stock and tapped it on the mill cut a slot for it and welded it to the frame rail.
If you put studs in be careful what you use most metric "studs" are realy set screws. You need to put something in that has at least a 10.9rateing and you should really try to keep the threads out of shear. I am sure the set Hardbar sells are nice I have never seen anything bad come from Gary.
If you put studs in be careful what you use most metric "studs" are realy set screws. You need to put something in that has at least a 10.9rateing and you should really try to keep the threads out of shear. I am sure the set Hardbar sells are nice I have never seen anything bad come from Gary.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,563
Likes: 31
From: scio or
If you put studs in be careful what you use most metric "studs" are realy set screws. You need to put something in that has at least a 10.9rateing and you should really try to keep the threads out of shear. I am sure the set Hardbar sells are nice I have never seen anything bad come from Gary.