Guys, for the ones that have the gears, how do you like the 4:10's? How about the one's with a supercharger? I talked with Chuck CoW about this and he says that the gear change would be awesome! He believes that 4:10's are one of the best, if not the best, mods going. I'v been trying to decide on the 4:10's or the ECS supercharger kit, actually beating myself up over it! I know the gears are cheaper and what not, but did they give you the expected SOTP kick? Everyone knows that a SC will give you a big seat of the pants kick, but do you feel the gears are close to giving the same result/feel as a supercharger? Maybe gears and FAST intake or gears and headers would be better than FI, as I really do not want to cut up pieces of my car required for the SC kit to be installed. Plus, I would still have a really strong car without all of the traction issues. Then again, I think that I would really love the FI also. So forum, which should I do?? What do you say Chuck? Thanks all!!

 

- JK, couldn't resist. There was just a thread about this recently. Having had both, I can attest you will be fine with 4.10's up to ~600hp. Depending on the road, temp, etc, my tires could break loose under full boost in 4th if I was not careful.

 

Putting a blower on your car , and doing 4:10 gears are both mods you can feel - But ANYONE who tells you 4:10's are a substitute for a blower or cam is smoking crack . End of story.

If youre thinking about a blower and are in the NYC area , go to either ECS or The Vette Doctors , both fantastic shops.

Vette Doctors did my blower , which is an ATI Procharger . I love it and they did a great job on the install ,tune ect, but if I was going to do it again I would use either A&A or ECS brand blower kits.

The Vette Doctors will install either of those for you.

You can do 4:10's AND a blower , but the gears are not a substitute .

Good luck

 

Thanks for the reply John. You have had both, which one did you enjoy the most? I'm going to do just one or the other, not both. When everything is considered, ( cost, reliability, resale, fun factor, maintenence, traction and the least permanent modifications to install ), which one should I get? How do the two compare?

 

Thanks for the reply ALLBOTTLE&NOTHROTTLE, you explained it very well. Anyone else?

 

I have not had a S/C on my C6 however I have had a S/C and turbo car in the past.

I'll break down your criteria point by point with the choice based on each.

Cost- Gears hands down. A S/C + instal/tune will run you around $7-8k

Reliability- Gears again. I know you can have a safe/reliable S/C set up if installed and tuned properly. However there's is no way any logical thinking person can say boosting a non-forged motor is more reliable than a gear swap.

Resale- That's debatable because as they say, there's a buyer for every car. However I'm sure most would agree that they would much rather purchase a used gear'd car than a S/C'd one. So gears win out again.

Fun Factor- S/C no question. Gears are definately fun but they simply cannot compare to the onslaught of 100+lbs of boosted torque.

Maintenance- Here is kind of a draw with a slight edge to gears. With a gear swap the only maintenance suggested really is a fluid change once a year. With a S/C there really isn't much maintenance however depending on boost level you may have belt-slip issues. Also your tune has to be spot on and maintenance of plugs, wires, gas/octane must be diligently performed. The slightest "oops" can result in complete destruction.

Traction- Gears again. Yes some will say that with gears you lose traction quicker. This can be true but you will also regain traction quicker. I wont go into detail but gears do not equal no traction. A S/C however.....well just try flooring it with 600rwhp.

Removability(is that even a word?)- Gears can be swapped back to stock in a day. A full removal and retune of a S/C kit can take several.

So it's hard to say which is best for you. It's really all preferance but you are certainly on two opposite sides of the $$ breakdown. Granted gears will in no way give you the same SOTP feel as a S/C. However it is cheaper, more reliable, and will still make your car faster. Just maybe not as fast as a boosted application. But with the money left over you can put it towards other mods. Headers, heads, cam, intake, and maybe give some of those FI guys a run for their money ....The choice is yours. Good luck.

 

I'm sorry you cant compare Gears to The ECS S/C kit. I mean they are not in the same ball park. Add FAST and Headers and you still are not close to the ECS S/C setup. Heck I just watched a C6Z roll out with 600rwhp with complete driveability around town. There is no way you would even have half a chance of beating that car down the 1/4 or anywhere with just a gear upgrade.

Here is the bottom line gears will get you 3 tenths in the 1/4, but what do you think 500rwhp will net you in the 1/4 mile. Alot more than 3 tenths.

I can put it another way. My first mod was 4.10 gears I ran 12.98 stock and with the gears I ran 12.66. Yup just north of 3 tenths (btw not bad for the $1395 that ECS charges for a MN6 3.42 upgrade to 4.10s). Now I didnt go FI because I road race, but instead I added H/C with all the goodies and guess what I ran 11.38 in the 1/4. That is almost 1.3 seconds better.

So HP won over Gears and it will everytime.

 

Well said

 

Get both!!!!

I did.

 

HERE WE GO.......

While supercharging can be fun for the right application, person, budget I would have to argue that more people I've spoken to with superchargers would not make the same choice the second time around.....

Clearly, the guy that sells superchargers is gonna pick a fight with you when you say S/C is not your best choice cause it kicks him between the legs...(and in the pocket...) Obviously, he would surely die defending the "superchargers are best" sales pitch....

But, most would agree that they got sucked into a S/C by the promise of "big numbers" and the cool factor associated with them, but when it all boils down....many guys get into it only seeing the big numbers side of it and neglected to see the "reality" side of it where supercharging can hardly be called "maintainance free" for most people and the excessive fuel consumption and other very obvious "side effects" or consequences of going F/I.

Some "side effects" that might be overlooked by the consumer when blinded by the "promise of the HUGE power sales pitch" when considering a supercharger might be......

1) MAJOR expense as compared to a rear diff.

2) lack of low end power.

3) Forfeiture of any type of power train warranty.

4) ongoing maintainance

5) loss of fuel mileage.

6) far fewer options for qualified service techs in your area.

7) more particular tuning.

8) expected, lowered life expectancy of the engine and related drivetrain

9) absolute NEED to maintain adequate fuel octane when traveling.

10) increased expense when attempting to "return to stock"

11) reduction in resale value resulting from potential purchasers that might be leary of a vehicle that was abused and or just simply significantly narrowing the market for a potential second hand purchaser due to the S/C

12) potential to "overpower" the vehicle resulting in secondary expenses like BETTER TIRES, BETTER COOLING SYSTEM, BETTER CLUTCH, STRONGER DRIVETRAIN, IMPROVED FUEL SYSTEM, and other systems strained by the S/C that the customer did not FACTOR IN to their "extended budget" when considering forced induction.

Honestly, driving a car with a blower is fun....I, like most of you,....think it's cool. I also know what's involved expense wise..and if I were to own a blower car, and have a problem with it....I OWN A CORVETTE SHOP and can fix it virtually for free. Likely, you won't be as lucky as me or get off as easy.

Don't get me wrong....Blowers are cool. I do actually sell and recommend them for certain customers.... BUT, my point is that....They are not for everybody.

It's like matching a man...with the right woman for marriage or whatever.....Lord knows, most of us made the wrong choice more than a few times....Usually because we focused too closely on the "pop (0)(0) features" rather than the practical.....

My point is.....Use your head. Know what you're getting into....weigh the options....realize that the "face value" price of a S/C is only a small part of what it's going to cost you ongoing. (remember your first wife that is still costing you even after she's gone...)

The reason EVERYONE wants to improve the performance of their vette is cause when you buy it...IT SUCKS.

It's not that the engine dosen't have sufficient power to have fun with.....

The problem is that the REAR AXLE RATIO is completely WRONG for the way most of you use the car. Sure, increasing the engines output can help....but at great expense and compromise.

A rear diff with a better axle ratio will ALWAYS BE your BEST VALUE. (notice that I underlined that word)

AGAIN, Supercharging can be fun....and for the right person and budget.....It's a really cool option.

But, please understand....My point here is not that they worthless. I love em.....

I just don't think they are right for most people.

I TOTALLY BELIEVE that a more appropriate (higher numerically) rear axle ratio is more rewarding, and FAR LESS COSTLY (in more ways than one) and a much better choice when considering all options.

Choose Wisely....
Chuck CoW

 

SURVEY SAYS.......

GOOD ANSWER!

Chuck CoW

 

I could easily say that a person that only sells gears will push gears over FI, but you know that already.

As everyone knows ECS sells not only FI, but NA, Gears, bolt ons, etc all depending on what the customer wants and what the customer planned usage is going to be. As an example ECS would not push 4.10 gears on a person that does HPDEs over suspension, brakes, tires, H/C setup which I know from experience will be much better for that person. The word FI would not come out of my mouth either for a HPDE setup.

Just for the record my comparison was based on the OP stating which one will be faster. My answer is HP over gears whether that be FI or NA. As proven 3 tenths is not bad in the 1/4 mile, but 1.3 seconds is a hell of a lot more. Yes it did cost more money for the 1.3 seconds, but if the OP is asking which one I assume that money is not an issue and I also assume that Vette people are smart enough to know that going faster costs money.

I am not going to take the time to argue each one of your points. I can tell you that FI has been very reliable though and if not then why is the ZR1 going to be FI?

And Finally for anyone to say that a stock corvette power SUCKs is smack in the face to all corvette owners. I ran my stock vette in the 1/4 mile and on road courses and was able to beat up on most stock cars. Personally I think a stock corvette is plenty fast and has plenty power. I also personally know tons of people that have never done a power Mod in their life and are very happy with the stock corvette.

If you look at the whole picture of vettes being sold only a few every have power mods done.

 

Simply personnal preference. A good tuner , vendor will listen to customers wants, needs,& then explain up's & downs with choices. I had a great experience with ECS in modding 2 cars. Never once did I feel a sales pitch from ECS. IF you want it they got it ! If you do not understand they explain everything. In the end it is your choice .

 

I had 4.10's first then installed the SC and liked how the car performed. Had I stopped there I would have been fine, but I bumped the pwer and now need to re-gear.

Most seasoned enthusiasts will insist that you first determine your goals, then pick the shop who can help you. Fortunately for us, there are lots of excellent LSx tuners / builders in the US who can get you to 650-700rwhp. I would recommend you pick one close to your home.

After that, you really need to evaluate goals and determine the shop to do the business, as there are far less who can make reliable power north of 700whp and they may not be an hour or two away. Making 750-900rwhp will double if not triple the investment of 600whp.