Warranty and Aftermarket Tunes
Racer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
From: Webster New York
Stupid question maybe, and I would never do this BUT
Why couldn't someone simply buy a second PCM for an aftermarket tune, replace the original PCM with the new tuned PCM, and then reinstall the original PCM when going to the dealer. That is what I understood some SSS owners to be doing to protect warranty coverage.
I know its not honest. Not trying to discuss the morality of it, just a question as to how some could be told that their warranty is voided while others could do the same thing and avoid that issue.
Why couldn't someone simply buy a second PCM for an aftermarket tune, replace the original PCM with the new tuned PCM, and then reinstall the original PCM when going to the dealer. That is what I understood some SSS owners to be doing to protect warranty coverage.
I know its not honest. Not trying to discuss the morality of it, just a question as to how some could be told that their warranty is voided while others could do the same thing and avoid that issue.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
I posted this in Autocross & Roadracing section also.
I work for a Chevy dealership and peruse emerging issues when wor is a bit slow. An interesting issue came up in Jan I thought might be of interest here. As of Jan, we are to look for aftermarket tunes on any vehicle brought in for drivability concerns & warranty work comes into play. Aftermarket NON GM tunes will VOID your powertrain warranty. PERIOD!!! Here is an excerpt:
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, good deal, Jay. Now, what if the aftermarket calibration is removed from the vehicle and the GM calibration is reinstalled?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, that's a real good question, but if we know that there is an aftermarket non-GM calibration in the vehicle, even if it was removed, we will still continue with the cancellation and voiding of the warranty for the entire powertrain: engine, transmission, transfer case, if so equipped, prop shafts, and drive axles.
HTH
Bob
I work for a Chevy dealership and peruse emerging issues when wor is a bit slow. An interesting issue came up in Jan I thought might be of interest here. As of Jan, we are to look for aftermarket tunes on any vehicle brought in for drivability concerns & warranty work comes into play. Aftermarket NON GM tunes will VOID your powertrain warranty. PERIOD!!! Here is an excerpt:
MIKE SCULTHORPE: All right, good deal, Jay. Now, what if the aftermarket calibration is removed from the vehicle and the GM calibration is reinstalled?
JAY DANKOVICH: Well, that's a real good question, but if we know that there is an aftermarket non-GM calibration in the vehicle, even if it was removed, we will still continue with the cancellation and voiding of the warranty for the entire powertrain: engine, transmission, transfer case, if so equipped, prop shafts, and drive axles.
HTH
Bob
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
Stupid question maybe, and I would never do this BUT Why couldn't someone simply buy a second PCM for an aftermarket tune, replace the original PCM with the new tuned PCM, and then reinstall the original PCM when going to the dealer. That is what I understood some SSS owners to be doing to protect warranty coverage.
I know its not honest. Not trying to discuss the morality of it, just a question as to how some could be told that their warranty is voided while others could do the same thing and avoid that issue.
I know its not honest. Not trying to discuss the morality of it, just a question as to how some could be told that their warranty is voided while others could do the same thing and avoid that issue.
I think this PCM or Tune switch back to oem orginal idea will be useful only for two mild aftermarket bolt-ons like catback exhaust and maybe CAI. Adding Gears, Cams, Stall converters, Headers, Manifold Intakes, et al kinda makes returning the PCM or stock tune kinda useless.
Last edited by siffert; Feb 17, 2009 at 04:16 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,064
Likes: 6
From: Pinellas Park Florida
Stupid question maybe, and I would never do this BUT
Why couldn't someone simply buy a second PCM for an aftermarket tune, replace the original PCM with the new tuned PCM, and then reinstall the original PCM when going to the dealer. That is what I understood some SSS owners to be doing to protect warranty coverage.
I know its not honest. Not trying to discuss the morality of it, just a question as to how some could be told that their warranty is voided while others could do the same thing and avoid that issue.
Why couldn't someone simply buy a second PCM for an aftermarket tune, replace the original PCM with the new tuned PCM, and then reinstall the original PCM when going to the dealer. That is what I understood some SSS owners to be doing to protect warranty coverage.
I know its not honest. Not trying to discuss the morality of it, just a question as to how some could be told that their warranty is voided while others could do the same thing and avoid that issue.
Yup, switching the CM's is the way to go, but ethic's are questionable.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
I'd really have concerns GM would void the warranty on a brand new auto trans that was tuned. I can see them being firm on that issue! You changed the way that A6 shifts and it caused the damage. I don't think they OP would have a leg to stand on!! How in fact do you know that no damage is being done by the modified firmer shifting, etc? Seems like it's a pretty expensive gamble retuning your car if you have warranty!
Racer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
From: Webster New York
Very good question. I know at least one tuner has offered this option, even advertised it here. So it would seem A-OK that it would work. However, here is a thought. If you add headers, it usually throws a CEL that has to be tuned out. You go into the dealer with a problem but you replace your PCM or tune back to original. When they start the car up, they will notice the CEL and the question arises..."you have been driving for the last six months with a CEL light on and never came in before for it????
I dont think this PCM or Tune switch back to oem orginal idea will be useful only for two mild aftermarket bolt-ons like catback exhaust and maybe CAI. Adding Gears, Cams, Stall converters, Headers, Manifold Intakes, et al kinda makes returning the PCM or stock tune kinda useless.
I dont think this PCM or Tune switch back to oem orginal idea will be useful only for two mild aftermarket bolt-ons like catback exhaust and maybe CAI. Adding Gears, Cams, Stall converters, Headers, Manifold Intakes, et al kinda makes returning the PCM or stock tune kinda useless.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 29,085
Likes: 14
From: Cary IL and Parrish FL
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
If I was broke *** like GM, I would be looking to trim liability too. If GM was actually making money, this would be a non issue. Since GM is not making money, we all pay. I wonder if there is something else behind this. I wonder if GM is now once again cutting corners by putting crappier components and is worried about them breaking. For example, my stock wheels were made in the US. My buddy who just got an 08 has his wheels stamped with "Made in Thailand". Hmm..
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 57,408
Likes: 164
From: queensbury ny
Good post, as it further validates discussions here in the past...GM is doing what it must to cut liability and costs for warranty of vehicles modified from factory specifications. I don't think most folks, being honest, can blame them. I'm certain that anyone who has exposure to warranty costs for their own products and services can relate.
These powertrains are solid.
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Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
I hope Chuck at CoW reads this since he has been claiming, for some time now, that his "special" (whatever) tune won't cancel your warranty. I've called 
on that for some time, but a few still go on and on about federal warranty law, how unfair it all is, etc. Hey, Chuck - YOU'RE WRONG! If you modify the powertrain, the powertrain warranty is gone. Period. Why, oh why, is this so hard for people to understand?
on that for some time, but a few still go on and on about federal warranty law, how unfair it all is, etc. Hey, Chuck - YOU'RE WRONG! If you modify the powertrain, the powertrain warranty is gone. Period. Why, oh why, is this so hard for people to understand? You are spot on RIGHT! Easy as a Caveman to understand!
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
I hope Chuck at CoW reads this since he has been claiming, for some time now, that his "special" (whatever) tune won't cancel your warranty. I've called on that for some time, but a few still go on and on about federal warranty law, how unfair it all is, etc.
Hey, Chuck - YOU'RE WRONG!
If you modify the powertrain, the powertrain warranty is gone. Period. Why, oh why, is this so hard for people to understand?
on that for some time, but a few still go on and on about federal warranty law, how unfair it all is, etc.Hey, Chuck - YOU'RE WRONG!
If you modify the powertrain, the powertrain warranty is gone. Period. Why, oh why, is this so hard for people to understand?
Just like they want to think that they can swap out ECMs and get away with it.
If a catastrophic failure occurs in that car, codes are thrown.
But now you have it towed in to the dealership with a burnt piston, or some other serious failure, and they check the ECM for codes, and will find not a single one, because you have placed in your new, smooth as a baby's ***, ECM to hide your tune. Which of course is in the ECM you had in the car when the car took a crap and won't start now. Or won't move.
Now how did this failure occur with a stock calibration? Furthermore, how did it happen and no codes were thrown, not a single one?
If you were sloppy, they might even check to see if there is dust or dirt on everything else in the area except on your ECM. If its too clean in that area, then that too will raise eyebrows. If it looks like its been tampered with, thats grounds for them to deny the claim.
Now how did the car lean out and burn a piston and not throw a code?
How did the transmission go and not throw a code?
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Feb 17, 2009 at 07:08 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,474
Likes: 3
From: Bradenton, FL & Chandler AZ
St. Jude Donor '09
simple. Because they don't want to understand it.
Just like they want to think that they can swap out ecms and get away with it.
If a catastrophic failure occurs in that car, codes are thrown.
But now you have it towed in to the dealership with a burnt piston, or some other serious failure, and they check the ecm for codes, and will find not a single one, because you have placed in your new, smooth as a baby's ***, ecm to hide your tune you had in the car when the car took a crap and won't start now. Or won't move.
If you were sloppy, they might even check to see if there is dust or dirt on everything else in the area except on your ecm. If its too clean in that area, then that too will raise eyebrows. If it looks like its been tampered with, thats grounds for them to deny the claim.
Now how did the car lean out and burn a piston and not throw a code?
How did the transmission go and not throw a code?
Just like they want to think that they can swap out ecms and get away with it.
If a catastrophic failure occurs in that car, codes are thrown.
But now you have it towed in to the dealership with a burnt piston, or some other serious failure, and they check the ecm for codes, and will find not a single one, because you have placed in your new, smooth as a baby's ***, ecm to hide your tune you had in the car when the car took a crap and won't start now. Or won't move.
If you were sloppy, they might even check to see if there is dust or dirt on everything else in the area except on your ecm. If its too clean in that area, then that too will raise eyebrows. If it looks like its been tampered with, thats grounds for them to deny the claim.
Now how did the car lean out and burn a piston and not throw a code?
How did the transmission go and not throw a code?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
Now how did this failure occur with a stock calibration? Furthermore, how did it happen and no codes were thrown, not a single one?
If you were sloppy, they might even check to see if there is dust or dirt on everything else in the area except on your ECM. If its too clean in that area, then that too will raise eyebrows. If it looks like its been tampered with, thats grounds for them to deny the claim.
Now how did the car lean out and burn a piston and not throw a code?
How did the transmission go and not throw a code?
If you were sloppy, they might even check to see if there is dust or dirt on everything else in the area except on your ECM. If its too clean in that area, then that too will raise eyebrows. If it looks like its been tampered with, thats grounds for them to deny the claim.
Now how did the car lean out and burn a piston and not throw a code?
How did the transmission go and not throw a code?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
I never thought of that, so I give you credit. How about if I throw some dust, crud etc. on the replaced ecm? So then, what are the answers to your other questions about not throwing codes? I could say I shut off my car immediately after hearing a very strange and loud mechanical noise? How's that?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...chuck-cow.html
Last edited by siffert; Feb 17, 2009 at 08:33 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
It can and has has been done. See link below for complete explanation.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...chuck-cow.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...chuck-cow.html
Those that mod ought to just MAN UP, take your lumps if something breaks and you've changed the stock GM tune! Why should GM pay out a dime if you've changed how they've set up your engine and trans? Doesn't seem fair to try and stick GM for the decisions you made to mod the car! I have little sympathy for anyone that intentionally attempts to deceive and gets nailed............
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,574
Likes: 167
From: Frederick, MD
Sounds to me like someone is risking some real legal trouble doing something like that... I'm not a lawyers just a LEO, but I wouldn't ever attempt to defraud anyone. Seems like it might buy you a world of trouble even beyond warranty issues....
Those that mod ought to just MAN UP, take your lumps if something breaks and you've changed the stock GM tune! Why should GM pay out a dime if you've changed how they've set up your engine and trans? Doesn't seem fair to try and stick GM for the decisions you made to mod the car! I have little sympathy for anyone that intentionally attempts to deceive and gets nailed............
Those that mod ought to just MAN UP, take your lumps if something breaks and you've changed the stock GM tune! Why should GM pay out a dime if you've changed how they've set up your engine and trans? Doesn't seem fair to try and stick GM for the decisions you made to mod the car! I have little sympathy for anyone that intentionally attempts to deceive and gets nailed............
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 0
From: Northwest Arkansas
I hope Chuck at CoW reads this since he has been claiming, for some time now, that his "special" (whatever) tune won't cancel your warranty. I've called on that for some time, but a few still go on and on about federal warranty law, how unfair it all is, etc.
Hey, Chuck - YOU'RE WRONG!
If you modify the powertrain, the powertrain warranty is gone. Period. Why, oh why, is this so hard for people to understand?
on that for some time, but a few still go on and on about federal warranty law, how unfair it all is, etc.Hey, Chuck - YOU'RE WRONG!
If you modify the powertrain, the powertrain warranty is gone. Period. Why, oh why, is this so hard for people to understand?
I visited with Chuck about this issue and he never argued this point... as a matter of fact, his response was along the lines of "technically, any mod that you perform runs the risk of voiding your warranty." I don't need to defend Chuck, but he certainly didn't misrepresent this issue to me. I am a bit surprised that he doesn't make you sign an acknowledgment of this issue before he installs the tune - seems like in today's world, some knucklehead could try to come back on Chuck after getting their warranty claim denied...
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
However, since your offered one, here is mine. I dont see anything illegal about this much less risking legal trouble. In fact, just from a mod point of view, it is not a bad idea to have a backup ecm in the case something happens to the one you or your tuner is playing tuning on.
As for how you deal with your Dealer and/or GM on your warranty problems, that is up to the individual. Other factors may come in play, such as how much the Dealer and/or GM has been straight or screwing dealing with you previously!
Last edited by siffert; Feb 18, 2009 at 01:18 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
I just posted this as infomation, not an opinion.
However, since your offered one, here is mine. I dont see anything illegal about this much less risking legal trouble. In fact, just from a mod point of view, it is not a bad idea to have a backup ecm in the case something happens to the one you or your tuner is playing tuning on.
As for how you deal with your Dealer and/or GM on your warranty problems, that is up to the individual. Other factors may come in play, such as how much the Dealer and/or GM has been straight or screwing dealing with you previously!
However, since your offered one, here is mine. I dont see anything illegal about this much less risking legal trouble. In fact, just from a mod point of view, it is not a bad idea to have a backup ecm in the case something happens to the one you or your tuner is playing tuning on.
As for how you deal with your Dealer and/or GM on your warranty problems, that is up to the individual. Other factors may come in play, such as how much the Dealer and/or GM has been straight or screwing dealing with you previously!