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[Z06] Any Concerns Regarding Cars Converted to E85?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 885
Likes: 15
From: South Florida
Any Concerns Regarding Cars Converted to E85?
I was at the NCM event last week at VIR and was discussing the use of E85 in our C6 Z06's. A couple of the GM engineers (great guys who actually track cars) suggested that the corrosive properties of E85 (due to alchohol content) could have unintended consequences on fuel rails, valve seats and other non-plastic components in the system (fuel tank and initial fuel lines should be OK). They seemed to think that any damage as a result of corrosion could occur fairly quickly.
Has anybody done any research on all the stock components and thought about what parts, if any, might be susceptible to corrosion? Any drag racers using alchohol for fuel have any input from their experience?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Has anybody done any research on all the stock components and thought about what parts, if any, might be susceptible to corrosion? Any drag racers using alchohol for fuel have any input from their experience?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 62
From: Houston Texas
I have not seen any reported issues on the forum yet and a lot of people are now running it. The only issue is making sure you have enough fuel from the pump and injectors. High HP cars will run out of fuel without a fuel pump upgrade.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
What does a GM engineer know? He only has an engineering degree and only designed the car. If you want an informed answer, then ask someone that makes money from selling the aftermarket E85 components.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 885
Likes: 15
From: South Florida
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,966
Likes: 17
From: Ft. Collins, CO
I know Carlos is running E85 for I think 3 years now? pretty much stock fuel system other than injectors!? im sure he will chime in here really soon because he loves taking about vettes and E85 lol
I have been running it on my vette for few months but only put about 3k miles. no problems so far. stock fuel system + 60# injectors.
I have been running it on my vette for few months but only put about 3k miles. no problems so far. stock fuel system + 60# injectors.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,966
Likes: 17
From: Ft. Collins, CO
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Sierra Vista AZ
Maybe the fact that E85 subsidies are very likely going away (http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110...ol_tax_credits). E85 prices will jump and demand will drop. Fuel distributors will have no reason to keep carrying it.
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Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 62
From: Houston Texas
With all the money that car companies have put into flex fuels I can't imagine it going away, but anything is possible.
Maybe the GM engineer or someone please post proof of the E85 eroding the fuel system because after three years I have yet to see it.
Maybe the GM engineer or someone please post proof of the E85 eroding the fuel system because after three years I have yet to see it.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 885
Likes: 15
From: South Florida
Have you been solely running E85 in your C6 for three years?
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Jump on here and see what they have to say, there are number of people that have gone down this road, and will be able to tell you from experience if they had to make any changes to their cars:
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/
http://www.e85performance.net/forums/
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 62
From: Houston Texas
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Sierra Vista AZ
Demand 'will' drop as the only reason why it is a marketable fuel is the fact that it is about 12 cents cheaper than standard fuel. Losing 3 billion in subsidies in the first year will make it impossible to maintain this price point and will probably push it over the standard fuel price. Combine this with the fact that the EPA refuses to publish mileage figures associated with E85 and the perception that your mileage actually decreases with it's use, and it is pretty clear that E85 pumps will become as rare as race fuel pumps. It will still be cheaper than race fuel, but for those who are planning on doing conversions due to the HP-benefit to availability ratio, may have to rethink this strategy.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 272
Likes: 6
From: Fairfield California
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 995
Likes: 11
From: Howell Michigan
Actually the belief that E85 in and of itself being corrosive is largely false....point of fact it's the water attracted by the alcohol content that causes issue in a fuel system NOT designed to be compatible with it. Compounding that problem is the fact seals in the fuel system have to be compatible with ethanol.....which GM did not spec for the LS series engines based on price.
Even more concerning is the percentage of ethanol to gasoline varying.....I've tested E85 at 10 different local stations to find ratios from E95 down to E70. (I used to run an A-fuel dragster.....testing fuel is life) This is most likely why dedicated flex fuel vehicles monitor the ethanol to gas ratio and adjust programming to suit. Last I checked our ECM does not support that particular feature.....
If you are going to run E85 buy from one or two stations and test the ethanol content. For a daily ride that you might take on extended trips.....pass on E85
Even more concerning is the percentage of ethanol to gasoline varying.....I've tested E85 at 10 different local stations to find ratios from E95 down to E70. (I used to run an A-fuel dragster.....testing fuel is life) This is most likely why dedicated flex fuel vehicles monitor the ethanol to gas ratio and adjust programming to suit. Last I checked our ECM does not support that particular feature.....
If you are going to run E85 buy from one or two stations and test the ethanol content. For a daily ride that you might take on extended trips.....pass on E85
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,307
Likes: 111
From: Tucson AZ
We use methyl alcohol (Methanol) in our dragsters. It is in the same chemical category as ethanol and both are made from fermented grain. Methanol is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture right out of the air. It will severely corrode unprotected aluminum and steel parts as well as swell/deteriorate o-rings and other rubber parts. Even high quality Aeroquip braided stainless hose and anodized aluminum fittings must be changed out on a regular basis.
The stoichiometric ratio (ideal air-fuel burn ratio) for methanol is 6.4 air to fuel ratio and gasoline is 14.7. Thus we use roughly 1.7 times the amount of methanol than gas. The actual BTU content per gallon is less than gas, but since we burn 1.7 times as much, the total HP output is higher. The stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is 9.0 to 1, so you are also going to burn a lot more than you would with gas.
Some of the dangers are methanol flames are nearly invisible and the fumes contain formaldehyde. It is also poisonous if ingested. In an enclosed area, the fumes will make you sick enough to vomit.
The stoichiometric ratio (ideal air-fuel burn ratio) for methanol is 6.4 air to fuel ratio and gasoline is 14.7. Thus we use roughly 1.7 times the amount of methanol than gas. The actual BTU content per gallon is less than gas, but since we burn 1.7 times as much, the total HP output is higher. The stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is 9.0 to 1, so you are also going to burn a lot more than you would with gas.
Some of the dangers are methanol flames are nearly invisible and the fumes contain formaldehyde. It is also poisonous if ingested. In an enclosed area, the fumes will make you sick enough to vomit.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,975
Likes: 980
From: Clinton Township MI
C7 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
I've been on E85 for 1 year now. Halltech has been running it for 2 years. No issues.
