Comparison: Stingray vs. 911 vs. Ferrari F12
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
That's true too. Ever noticed why R&T, Motor Trend, C&D, etc never print just a 2-page pamphlet chock full of dry performance stats and nothing else? It's because nobody would buy it. People like looking at cars, and sports cars have another appeal as well. They like hearing them, through online content. Magazines like Evo, TopGear, and Car have published many multiple car comparos without even a single 0-60 stat being measured. What sells for them is stunning photography and a narrative of how the cars compare within a context that is more relevant to more people: on the road.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
From: NY
Let's face it. Most people will buy the best sports car they can AFFORD.
Ergo, the Vette is going to sell a boat load more units than the other two.
So to have it play in the league of cars 3 - 8 times it's MSRP is pretty darn awesome.
Who really gives a rats behind about what magazines think anyway?!?
Ergo, the Vette is going to sell a boat load more units than the other two.
So to have it play in the league of cars 3 - 8 times it's MSRP is pretty darn awesome.
Who really gives a rats behind about what magazines think anyway?!?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,885
Likes: 371
From: Cape Coral FL
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco California
They did not say the 911 was more visceral. If that's what they were looking for, I think it's clear the F12 would have won. They said the 911 was slightly more confidence inspiring on the track and never inspires fear, never makes a mistake, always perfectly sorted, etc. I think you could argue that's almost the opposite of visceral, and that the 991 is so close to perfect that it takes the fun out of it.
I haven't been able to watch the video, but the written comparison was great. I think when you consider the parameters of the comparison (i.e. best subjective driver's car regardless of any other factors) and the extremely capable and desirable competition, this is about as close to a win for the C7 as you're going to get. And even considering those things, it sounds like the C7 was judged to be very very nearly as good as the 911.
I haven't been able to watch the video, but the written comparison was great. I think when you consider the parameters of the comparison (i.e. best subjective driver's car regardless of any other factors) and the extremely capable and desirable competition, this is about as close to a win for the C7 as you're going to get. And even considering those things, it sounds like the C7 was judged to be very very nearly as good as the 911.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 1
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14, '16
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 161
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
Sorry, This Proved My Concept!
Here a relatively low TECH vette set-up beat a state of the art Porsche overall! Therefore they/we don't need the expensive high TECH CC-brakes and DCT in a larger Z06 (>600HP) to beat the turbo.
And again the ACR proved it first!
(Or the ZR1s Ring Time!)
And again the ACR proved it first!(Or the ZR1s Ring Time!)
Last edited by johnglenntwo; Sep 30, 2013 at 07:31 PM.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 77
From: Forsyth GA
I watched the video and to me the comments where more like a comparison between 4wd and RWD. I don't see how a car with 4WD is considered more of a drivers car when compared to a RWD. It's really apples to oranges because AWD cars handle so much differently. No matter what you are going to have to work more with a rear wheel drive car and how you manage it around the turn with throttle, breaking, etc. makes it more of a drivers car than just relying on AWD where they can barely break the car loose in the video. It just seems like a ridiculous comparison, particularly when the vette was faster in every category, had the best steering feel and costs half of the price of the 911. If you want to say the 911 4s is more refined I can understand that, but not the better driver's car.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 77
From: Forsyth GA
Why is it NOT a 911? I have owned a couple and am curious why you say it is not a 911? even Porsche list the 4S under 911?
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera-4s/
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera-4s/
So what is it???
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,168
Likes: 1,336
From: FLL Florida
I watched the video and to me the comments where more like a comparison between 4wd and RWD. I don't see how a car with 4WD is considered more of a drivers car when compared to a RWD. It's really apples to oranges because AWD cars handle so much differently. No matter what you are going to have to work more with a rear wheel drive car and how you manage it around the turn with throttle, breaking, etc. makes it more of a drivers car than just relying on AWD where they can barely break the car loose in the video. It just seems like a ridiculous comparison, particularly when the vette was faster in every category, had the best steering feel and costs half of the price of the 911. If you want to say the 911 4s is more refined I can understand that, but not the better driver's car.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,158
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From: Forsyth GA
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 750
Likes: 0
In a standing still acceleration the C2S was better but on lap time the C4S is better, AWD doing its magic.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,883
Likes: 1,254
From: Carmel CA
Great result for the Corvette and good writeup, though the road test portion was a bit skimpy on info.
So they had the production handling parameters all loaded up and ready to go...yet decided not to use it. Is Ralph working for GM now? You were hyping everything up with your "sworn to secrecy" and "It will certainly be a one way street towards the C7 and not the other way around." While I think some people will be moved toward the C7, it's not necessarily a one-way street as those who have aspired to own a 911 will continue to do so. Those with crazy money will pick one of each. Funny how it's a one-way street to Corvette, but no one here wants to acknowledge that the Porsche, costing only slightly more than 1/3rd of the Ferrari's price, lapped in a very similar time. It's not the "dominating" figure you were claiming and Motor Trend spells this out:
"However, it's not radically ahead of the 140-lb-ft-torque-deficient AWD 911."
Claims by others of "5 seconds faster at VIR or Laguna Seca" now rest entirely on VIR, as the difference at LS was only 0.72s.
So they had the production handling parameters all loaded up and ready to go...yet decided not to use it. Is Ralph working for GM now? You were hyping everything up with your "sworn to secrecy" and "It will certainly be a one way street towards the C7 and not the other way around." While I think some people will be moved toward the C7, it's not necessarily a one-way street as those who have aspired to own a 911 will continue to do so. Those with crazy money will pick one of each. Funny how it's a one-way street to Corvette, but no one here wants to acknowledge that the Porsche, costing only slightly more than 1/3rd of the Ferrari's price, lapped in a very similar time. It's not the "dominating" figure you were claiming and Motor Trend spells this out:
"However, it's not radically ahead of the 140-lb-ft-torque-deficient AWD 911."
Claims by others of "5 seconds faster at VIR or Laguna Seca" now rest entirely on VIR, as the difference at LS was only 0.72s.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 97,155
Likes: 1,471
From: Calgary, AB. There's a reason why white was the only color offered on every year Corvette. Proud Canadian German Jamaican!
St. Jude Donor '09, '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I love all the Corvette Kool Aid drinkers in here. Newsflash, the Corvette isn't the best sports car in the world..........
Who cares if the C7 came in second, bashing Porsche makes no sense to me, why because they didn't choose which 911 to use in this comparison MT did. Obviously, well to me anyways, they chose these three to represent 3 different segments of sports cars, not because they wanted them to be as closely matched as possible. Like I've always said, manufacturers and magazines for that matter compare theirs and other cars to the Corvette, not the other way around, be happy with that.
And is there a camera mounted in the front bumper of the 911?
Who cares if the C7 came in second, bashing Porsche makes no sense to me, why because they didn't choose which 911 to use in this comparison MT did. Obviously, well to me anyways, they chose these three to represent 3 different segments of sports cars, not because they wanted them to be as closely matched as possible. Like I've always said, manufacturers and magazines for that matter compare theirs and other cars to the Corvette, not the other way around, be happy with that.
And is there a camera mounted in the front bumper of the 911?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 1
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14, '16
I love all the Corvette Kool Aid drinkers in here. Newsflash, the Corvette isn't the best sports car in the world..........
Who cares if the C7 came in second, bashing Porsche makes no sense to me, why because they didn't choose which 911 to use in this comparison MT did. Obviously, well to me anyways, they chose these three to represent 3 different segments of sports cars, not because they wanted them to be as closely matched as possible. Like I've always said, manufacturers and magazines for that matter compare theirs and other cars to the Corvette, not the other way around, be happy with that.
And is there a camera mounted in the front bumper of the 911?
Who cares if the C7 came in second, bashing Porsche makes no sense to me, why because they didn't choose which 911 to use in this comparison MT did. Obviously, well to me anyways, they chose these three to represent 3 different segments of sports cars, not because they wanted them to be as closely matched as possible. Like I've always said, manufacturers and magazines for that matter compare theirs and other cars to the Corvette, not the other way around, be happy with that.
And is there a camera mounted in the front bumper of the 911?
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 97,155
Likes: 1,471
From: Calgary, AB. There's a reason why white was the only color offered on every year Corvette. Proud Canadian German Jamaican!
St. Jude Donor '09, '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
What I will say is that there is not one car available in North America or the world for that matter, that comes straight from the factory, that is a better all around sports car for the same price or lower than the C7.
And don't forget, opinions are subjective, a fact is a fact, a five dollar bill is not worth more than a 20 dollar bill of the same currency.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,671
Likes: 4,144
2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
I love all the Corvette Kool Aid drinkers in here. Newsflash, the Corvette isn't the best sports car in the world..........
Who cares if the C7 came in second, bashing Porsche makes no sense to me, why because they didn't choose which 911 to use in this comparison MT did. Obviously, well to me anyways, they chose these three to represent 3 different segments of sports cars, not because they wanted them to be as closely matched as possible. Like I've always said, manufacturers and magazines for that matter compare theirs and other cars to the Corvette, not the other way around, be happy with that.
And is there a camera mounted in the front bumper of the 911?
Who cares if the C7 came in second, bashing Porsche makes no sense to me, why because they didn't choose which 911 to use in this comparison MT did. Obviously, well to me anyways, they chose these three to represent 3 different segments of sports cars, not because they wanted them to be as closely matched as possible. Like I've always said, manufacturers and magazines for that matter compare theirs and other cars to the Corvette, not the other way around, be happy with that.
And is there a camera mounted in the front bumper of the 911?
What I'm bashing is the opinion of the "reporters" that it's the best driving car. Their idea of "best driving" is a no drama experience that makes you feel better than you are.
To me, that doesn't make a car the best drivers car. A car that makes you feel special is the best drivers car.
The F12 and the Vette do that all day long over the 911.