I finally got the 4 speed back from the machinist, it now sports undercut forward gears :) When I go to install, I plan on trashing the stock linkage and shifter. I'd like to go with a Hurst shifter, but I have a few questions.

1) Since the stock setup has the "reverse lockout ring" which needs to be lifted in order to gate reverse, will I need to use a shifter with a reverse lockout device, or can I simply disable this. Do I want to disable this?

2) Since O/D will be "useful" when I get the 4.xx gears in the rear, I guess I'll have to also get a shift **** with a 12 volt switch built in?

3) Jeg's has some nice Hursts in their catalog, and there's a model with a reverse lockout tang which will accept their **** with a 12 volt switch. It says "requires trimming/will not fit stock consoles". I don't care about trashing the console, so I assume this just means that some of the plastic needs to be trimmed so the throws don't hit anything. Does anyone know for sure? TIA :cheers:

 

The super T-10 is not a top mounted shifter. There are no aftermarket shifters. There is a $23 kit that cuts the shifts down by 40% though. It replaces the peices of metal that connect the linkage to the shifter.

Ecklers carries it, I have it, i love it.

 

Hurst makes lots of shifters for the BW T-10 but not specifically for the C4. Like part number 530-373-0021 from Jeg's which is for the '82 Camaro with console. There are numerous other part numbers for old T-10 cars but I would be curious to see if the shifter would end up in the correct place or if the shift lever would be the correct shape. Maybe there's something workable in the bunch. What are you planning on using? I don't know if all T-10's have the Reverse lock ring or not.

I don't see how the shift **** would ever contact the console so I think you're okay there. The previous owner of my car put a big carbon fiber look shift **** on the stock shifter and relocated the OD button to the right hand spoke on a Grant GT steering wheel. It's actually a good arrangement.

I concur with Scorp on the short shift kit levers that Eckler's sells. It's good to have. Shift throws are ideal although the width of the "H" is also reduced.

 

Scorp- I've used the short throw kit almost since I've had the car, and it definitely helped quicken the shifts, but after 145k the stock linkage and shifter makes you feel like you're stirring wet cement with a pretzel rod, if you know what I mean.

I could be completely wrong (certainly ain't the first time) but when I looked at the Hurst kits in Jeg's, they seemed like they would work. The linkage is on the side of the tranny and the shifter just sits on top. There's an "Indy 4 speed" that seems like it'd work (except for no reverse yoke) The standard white cue ball-type that seems like it'd work (except for no reverse yoke), and there's a white-cueball-type with reverse lockout yoke that I'm drooling over (of course, I'd have to ditch the white cueball in favor of the **** with built in 12-volt switch for the O/D)

JMR302- I thinking of using the one with reverse lockout yoke, I don't have the model no. but it sells for "starting at $256.--" or something like that. I just don't know enough about the differences between the T10 and the Super T10 to work it out on my own.

I'm worried about the shift lever contacting the boot/console plate and not being able to make complete throws. I'll simply cut the console if this is the possible, but obviously if the thing ends up sticking up an inch from the radio, I've got a little problem! :smash:

 

Looks like once again I am a monkey's uncle. :D

 

The guys at Gearzone.net say that the T10 in the 4+3 is a "Super T-10". Either way I have a hunch that the differences would all be internal. I know that a few different tail housings were used with on the T-10. I wonder if that affects shifter location at all.

Give us some feedback on those undercut gears when you get this thing going. I would love to have quicker, smoother shifts.


[Modified by jmr302, 1:24 PM 3/12/2002]

 

AFAIK the differences are all internal. The Super T-10 has bearings in places where the T-10 has bushings.

BW has been taken over by Richmond Gear.
http://www.richmondgear.com

Go there to find part explosions and #s. Also the gear ratio that came in the 4+3s is the CC ratio which is a 2.88:1 first gear.

 

This is cool, thanks for the input, guys. I think I'm gonna try the Super Shifter 3, something tells me to get the reverse lockout just in case (the same something I ignored 3 weeks ago when it told me to get my rear end over to the speed shop to get a 5200 rev limiter pill for the MSDbox instead of the 6000 rpm pill that allowed the motor to belch up a valve.)

It looks like I might have to cut the console and relocate the power window and power mirror controls, so unless I can find a taller "streetier" version that inlcudes the reverse lockout, then a-hacking-I-must-go.

I'll definitely let you know how the gears work out. The machinist said he's never done a Super T10 before, but he's done hundreds of T10s. Since you all say that they're basically the same trans, I think it should work out pretty well.

 

I've got the solid-steel "short-shift" kit installed (there's one with bushings as well) and it works fine.

A well-known shifter mfg is rumored to be working on a 4+3 shifter for our cars...I'm waiting to see if it materializes before I experiment with the Hurst Indy or other Super T-10 shifters...

My present setup uses a bypassed ECM with the '85 OD switch relocated to the change tray and a white cue-ball ****...Much more comfortable than that OEM dogs foot ****... :crazy: :yesnod:

 

I tried to install a used Hurst in my '85 last year. I cut and welded a used unit and had it working (not the lockout or od button). I did not cut out the stock shifter mounting area. I was never happy with it because the shifter was too wide for the console and the rods always hit somewhere. If you cut out the mount and make a way to mount it to the transmission it should work. I gave up ,put the original back in sold it and bought a '94

 

dump the 4+3 and get a richmond 6 speed!

 

caseyc -

That's *lowered*???...What did it look like *before* you lowered it???... :crazy:

 

Yeah not to be rude but your car is sitting higher than most of my stock height vettes were before I lowered them????

 

I don't like the Richmond Six Speeds, or I'd get one. Never was a big fan of the ZF's either, simply b/c of the ratios.

With my engine setup, I'm gonna go with 4.56's in the rear (probably, maybe a bit taller, 4.2x or whatever). Doing the math, I think the ratios of the 4 speed will work out better for me than the ratio of the first 4 gears in the 6 speed.

If they made the Richmond with a good ratio (good for me, might not be what's good for you) I'd consider it, as I hear they stand up to some good abuse.

 

Sorry, Rich B.- Do you know who is coming out with this, and will it be, like, this week :lol: I'm interested, but I must make a move soon.

LSCHMIDT- Which model did you try to fit? And could you clarify what you mean about the mounts? As far as I know, the mounts are at the base of the stickshift and on the top back of the tranny. What other mounts?

When the Hurst hit the sides, could this have been alleviated by cutting up the console??? (I don't mind doing a hack job if I have to)

 

The shifter I used was a swap meet unit. I cut the handle and made it straight and shorter. This is the old style shifter used on most of the t-10s and muncies. I believe all the shifter bodies were the same. On the '85 the original shifter is mounted to the car body actually in a pocket formed in the floor console area. The rods go through a hole in this pocket. The Hurst is a lot wider than the original and doesn't fit well in this area. The rods wouldn't go through the floor hole very well and rubbed no matter where I positioned the shifter. As I said before if you cut out the shifter pocket in the floor. and mount the shifter to the transmission it should work very well. Of course you can't go back to the original shifter because the mount area had to be cut out.

 

This is the 1st I've heard of a commercially
available shifter for the 4+3.
I strongly suggest you give the Richmond-6 another look.
Call their tech staff, and I'm sure you can find a set of ratios
to fill your needs.

Not to bore you all with my personal bio,but Ive been
building special machinery for industry for 15 years, and
playing with cars for over twice that.
I refuse to call myself an authority on this, but I'm no
idiot either.

I've been trying combination after combination since 1994,
which is when I bought my '88.
My biggest concern is that the new shifter NOT cut into
the floor, for ease of install, for weather sealing, and for
resale/restoration later.
For those of you not familiar with the C4 4+3 shifter,
this thing is mounted to the floor, and NOT the trans tailshaft housing
as with earlier applications, like the C3.
The tail or OD unit of a 4+3 is NOT very conducive to mounting things to.

I wish you luck and If you come up with something, let me know as I'd like to duplicate it.

One last thing I feel obligated to add.

At one point I had a workable idea. I went to my bro-in-law attorney to try to
start the patent procedure.
You'd better have a lot of $$$,$$$,$$$.00 to fight the companies that are already in business making trans products.
They'll sue you stating you have plagiarized (copied) their product and research.
Of course, you prolly haven't, but that won't matter since their atty's will
wear down and bankrupt you in the legal process and eventually take your
invention, since you are no longer able to $top them. Once they have what they came for, they'll settle and drop charges leaving you with a bitter memory.
Even if you try to sell them the idea as a settlement, they have no incentive to
do so since theirs atty's are on staff and getting paid anyway, and they can take what they want for free.
What a great system.

 

LSCHMIDT- The cutting and non-stock appearance is OK with me, do you think the worst case scenario would be that I have hacked-up console, and a non-stock looking Vette? This is no problem with me, I'm thinking from the info you gave that these would be the only drawbacks... Thanks for the affirmations so far!

Corvette Bob- I can work for free too... :cheers: If I had an idea, and they were trying to bully me, I'd put my war headdress on and see who backs down first...Maybe I would lose, it's hard to fight Goliath, but I'd go down swinging like I was eating handfuls of PCP.... But I hear you 100% about how they "legitimately" steal people's ideas simply b/c they can afford to bog them down with court actions... I'm not afraid to say it... "Friggin' shysters..."

I won't go with the 6 speed for now, 1) my O/D went bad ~6 months ago and I replaced it with a h/d unit. So I'm already "married" to this tranny setup for a while! :crazy: 2) I just like the idea of telling folks it's a 4-speed manual. It let's me live out this fantasy of having an M22 rockcrusher in my mighty moused Vette! 3) All told, I did the 4sp/OD combo cheaper than I could have with the 6 speed, believe it or not!

You seem to be quite knowledgable, sometimes personal experience is the best teacher. Here's what I'm wondering about the Hurst. I *don't* care about looks, road noise,weather sealing, cutting the interior up, etc. All I care about is having a shifter that goes through its throws without hitting the radio, seat or what have you. I don't mind cutting/welding an extension onto the stick if I have to, so long as it has unencumbered shifts.

So, do you think I could do it by mounting the shifter on the tail, cutting a slot in the carpet on the side of the tranny tunnel and "butchering" the top console (maybe moving the power windows and mirror controls)?

When you say that the 4 speed is mounted to the floor, what do you mean? The last time I had the console and tunnel off, I thought it was mounted to the tail of the 4 speed (I could be COMPLETELY wrong about this). Doesn't the Super T-10 have bolt holes on the tail for mounting a shifter? Can't I just reposition it there?

Also, Jeg's sells the Hurst "Indy" shifter which they say will work with a stock Super T-10, and it looks like it mounts on the tailshaft of the 4 speed. (It doesn't have the reverse lockout, hence it ain't IHRA or NHRA legal for the 1/4 mile times I hope to be running :eek: or else I'd go with it)

Thanks for your replies, hopefully I can make this thing work.

 

I think if you're serious about this Hurst thing you should either crawl under the car and look at the way the shifter is mounted or pull the console and look from that side. By the way most of the early style Hursts have a spring to prevent reverse engagement.

 

You are "COMPLETELY" wronge, Trueblue :) . The shifter IS mounted to the transmission tunnel. There is actually a little box that is part of the floorpan that the shifter sets in. There are little rubber boots/bellows on the shift rods. That way it's completely sealed from the elements. Maybe that's the reason it's there in the first place, but who knows.