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California Exhaust system Law Change

 
Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
  #101  
KyleF
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
What is so complicated. I see cars that aren't your's, I take a few pictures, send it to the authorities and they swing by, see a car that isn't registered to you, write you a ticket.
I am not OK with that at all. Again, my moms car or even my son's best friend's Dad's van does not prove anything. You are also overlooking what this is going after. Running an Illegal business. That is not just a fine. That is investigation involving the IRS in to back taxes. Horrible rationalization. It should require a series of vehicles over a period of time (weeks, months) along with visible activities before any fine is issued or further investigation warranted. Running an illegal business it a big deal when you get caught. It's not like getting a drunk in public fine.

Originally Posted by aklim View Post
As to the construction, I don't care if you build a lift and duct taped it to the floor. That's between you and the building inspector.
Really, I am calling total BS on this. We have building codes for a reason. It's in the best interest of everyone's safety. God forbid your kid is friends with a the neighbor's kid and it happens to fall when they are in proximity to it. Or it falls, causes an electrical short and knocks over a gas can... big fire in your neighborhood, spreads to other houses...etc. You see where I am going with this. Structures should be permitted and inspected.I do support building codes that support general public safety, and these are usually area specific for a reason. To which you seem to agree but...

Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Build a lift or 2 lifts. Structure is between you and the building inspector.
The building inspector should be working with the public's best interest at heart. Including yours. So, it's not between said owner and inspector only. Bad way to look at it. Its between the owner and the public.

Originally Posted by aklim View Post
You said it was for your own use, keep it that way. Once you go on that slippery slope of exceptions, it never ends. Cop comes there, sees a car that isn't registered to you, no argument. Brother's, Father's, BFF, GF, etc. Otherwise it gets into a whole long story of "This is my good friend.......", "This is my so and so....".
My personal use is also helping out friends and family. With any of my tools. If I am not profiting from it, no matter if its a guy I know no better than from these boards, it's still not a business.
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Like I said, I'd support a ticket for any vehicle not your's.
I can't believe you would actually be OK with getting a ticket for changing your mom's oil, brakes, or other part just because you put it up on a lift. I know you wouldn't. That is ridiculous. Really, read what you just wrote. You would be OK if a cop comes by and tickets you for changing brake pads on a lift rather than a jack. Which may not matter because this is not a law about lifts... you are actually stating you are OK with getting a ticket for changing your moms brake pads.

Originally Posted by aklim View Post
It also satisfies the "presumption of guilt by ownership". You are innocent so no concern about what you build and you said it was for your personal vehicles. Someone reports you, the cops investigate and see a vehicle on the lift that isn't your's, you are guilty and tagged.
Guilty of having another car, yes. Guilty of operating illegally, no. What are you even arguing here... still that putting your brother's car on a lift dictates you did something illegal? Let's just be clear here, I am saying putting anyone's vehicle on your lift does not in itself prove ANYTHING. It needs to be a consistent observation of multiple cars over time. Never a one time thing. It is the ambiguity of the law that bothers me the most and the fact that just putting your family members car up one time can result in a ticket. Let's not lose sight of the actual law here. People keep talking about lifts, but the way the law is written, any tool you have could be deemed "uncommon" and get you a fine. So, that power brake bleeder you just used on your own car could get you the same ticket. Just as changing your mom's brake pads with "common" tools would as well. The law is targeting illegal businesses by infringing on the rights of the individual.


Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Just like the exhaust. Cop think's it is over the limit, he has a meter, it is over whatever the decibel limit is, you get a ticket. I was running home after disconnecting the exhaust since I needed the shop to take it off and drove home to put the new one in. Cop saw me, checked it out and I can't argue with that ticket and say "Well, I was on the way home and....".
Well, by the new law this is a mute point. It is illegal to install any aftermarket components on the exhaust system. Pretty straight up right there. I don't know about the reality of this situation. When I did this the exhaust was dropped at home and driven to the exhaust shop. However, I put flex pipe and glasspacks held in temporarily with hangers to make the 5 mile drive. Though, I don't really relate these two laws very closely. The exhaust law actually has nothing to do with what you would do on your own property. You could still have a vehicle you race with modified exhaust, or open headers, and you would be free to utilize it on your property and transport it on a trailer to a race track. Just can't operate on public roads. What you do with it at home is not affected.

Let's just review what you are OK with:

Car not registered to you on your lift - Illegal
Car not registered to you on a jack - Illegal
Car not registered to you with the hood up - illegal
Working on your own car registered to said address with a tool deemed uncommon by a police officer - illegal.
The first time it is seen.

I will never be OK with this. There is no rational that would ever make any sense why I can't use whatever tools I have at my disposal to change my mom's brake pads on my property. Nobody can demonstrate how a bazooka or AK-47 would be used to change pads on a car... but I can justify the use of wrenches, sockets, ratchets, C-Clamps, Jack, Lift, Stands, Pad Spreader, Brake Bleeder, and maybe a puller to free those pesky rotors. 3 or 4 of those I could say are not common. Which would get you a fine... ON YOUR OWN CAR. You state you are OK with this law. I will never see why.

Last edited by KyleF; Yesterday at 05:24 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:18 PM
  #102  
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Wow, Commiefornia is out of control. I feel for you in CA, but please don't move to the NW; you wouldn't like the 8 months of rain anyway.... Even in SSR of WA, all emission testing ends after 2019. This is thanks to the Republicans in the legislature. So for those who say R's and D's are the same; you are wrong. If the D's had their way, WA would be another CA.
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Old Yesterday, 02:36 PM
  #103  
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This could hurt a lot of people.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention those other liberal states that see kali get away with collecting more taxes and fines...
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Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
  #104  
KyleF
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Originally Posted by 1985 Vette View Post
Wow, Commiefornia is out of control. I feel for you in CA, but please don't move to the NW; you wouldn't like the 8 months of rain anyway.... Even in SSR of WA, all emission testing ends after 2019. This is thanks to the Republicans in the legislature. So for those who say R's and D's are the same; you are wrong. If the D's had their way, WA would be another CA.
I have no issues with emissions testing though. I don't see that as a personal freedom and as something (such as building codes) that is greater for the common good. I like the states that roll off the requirement at 25 or 30 years old - when a state legally observes the car as a classic. Plenty of new cars capable of making 700+hp and passing emissions. So, it has been proven power can be made and be emissions legal. I also don't mind states that say the catalyst can't be modified... but who give a flying flip over mufflers? We have noise restrictions and if my (fill in the blank brand) cat back sounds better and meets the legal limit, what is the problem?

To use this as a metaphor, I see the car you own the same as the tools... own any car/tool you want. Use said car/tool how you want. Operate it illegally (drive recklessly or cut the emissions off/run a business) then you get fined. Owning a ZR1 Vette doesn't in and to itself say you are a reckless driver no more than having a lift (or any other specialty tool) says you are operating a business. It has to be observed.... and to me just one or two cars sporadically worked on at your residence shouldn't incriminate you any more than being observed in a hot sports car.
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Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by JrRifleCoach View Post
This could hurt a lot of people.

Not to mention those other liberal states that see kali get away with collecting more taxes and fines...
Like Illinois that is taxing rain.... seriously. Based on the amount of rain an area gets depends on the tax they pay for upkeep of the stormwater and sewer systems. I almost understand this, but then I think... we had a flood, your possessions and home are in ruin. Here is you bill for the rain in addition to everything else you lost.
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Old Yesterday, 08:17 PM
  #106  
aklim
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
I am not OK with that at all. Again, my moms car or even my son's best friend's Dad's van does not prove anything. You are also overlooking what this is going after. Running an Illegal business. That is not just a fine. That is investigation involving the IRS in to back taxes. Horrible rationalization. It should require a series of vehicles over a period of time (weeks, months) along with visible activities before any fine is issued or further investigation warranted. Running an illegal business it a big deal when you get caught. It's not like getting a drunk in public fine.


Really, I am calling total BS on this. We have building codes for a reason. It's in the best interest of everyone's safety. God forbid your kid is friends with a the neighbor's kid and it happens to fall when they are in proximity to it. Or it falls, causes an electrical short and knocks over a gas can... big fire in your neighborhood, spreads to other houses...etc. You see where I am going with this. Structures should be permitted and inspected.I do support building codes that support general public safety, and these are usually area specific for a reason. To which you seem to agree but...

The building inspector should be working with the public's best interest at heart. Including yours. So, it's not between said owner and inspector only. Bad way to look at it. Its between the owner and the public.

My personal use is also helping out friends and family. With any of my tools. If I am not profiting from it, no matter if its a guy I know no better than from these boards, it's still not a business.

I can't believe you would actually be OK with getting a ticket for changing your mom's oil, brakes, or other part just because you put it up on a lift. I know you wouldn't. That is ridiculous. Really, read what you just wrote. You would be OK if a cop comes by and tickets you for changing brake pads on a lift rather than a jack. Which may not matter because this is not a law about lifts... you are actually stating you are OK with getting a ticket for changing your moms brake pads.

Guilty of having another car, yes. Guilty of operating illegally, no. What are you even arguing here... still that putting your brother's car on a lift dictates you did something illegal? Let's just be clear here, I am saying putting anyone's vehicle on your lift does not in itself prove ANYTHING. It needs to be a consistent observation of multiple cars over time. Never a one time thing. It is the ambiguity of the law that bothers me the most and the fact that just putting your family members car up one time can result in a ticket. Let's not lose sight of the actual law here. People keep talking about lifts, but the way the law is written, any tool you have could be deemed "uncommon" and get you a fine. So, that power brake bleeder you just used on your own car could get you the same ticket. Just as changing your mom's brake pads with "common" tools would as well. The law is targeting illegal businesses by infringing on the rights of the individual.




Well, by the new law this is a mute point. It is illegal to install any aftermarket components on the exhaust system. Pretty straight up right there. I don't know about the reality of this situation. When I did this the exhaust was dropped at home and driven to the exhaust shop. However, I put flex pipe and glasspacks held in temporarily with hangers to make the 5 mile drive. Though, I don't really relate these two laws very closely. The exhaust law actually has nothing to do with what you would do on your own property. You could still have a vehicle you race with modified exhaust, or open headers, and you would be free to utilize it on your property and transport it on a trailer to a race track. Just can't operate on public roads. What you do with it at home is not affected.

Let's just review what you are OK with:

Car not registered to you on your lift - Illegal
Car not registered to you on a jack - Illegal
Car not registered to you with the hood up - illegal
Working on your own car registered to said address with a tool deemed uncommon by a police officer - illegal.
The first time it is seen.

I will never be OK with this. There is no rational that would ever make any sense why I can't use whatever tools I have at my disposal to change my mom's brake pads on my property. Nobody can demonstrate how a bazooka or AK-47 would be used to change pads on a car... but I can justify the use of wrenches, sockets, ratchets, C-Clamps, Jack, Lift, Stands, Pad Spreader, Brake Bleeder, and maybe a puller to free those pesky rotors. 3 or 4 of those I could say are not common. Which would get you a fine... ON YOUR OWN CAR. You state you are OK with this law. I will never see why.
And where is that line drawn again? I can run a repair shop in my garage and I only work on cars that are owned by friends and family. What does it take to be in that unique circle? Leave a few bucks in the coffee can on the table. That is EXACTLY the logic someone who did side work said.

What part of "between you and the building inspector" do you not understand? He comes along and finds violations, you two work it out. It falls on your kids, that is your problem. My job is to make sure that MY kids don't go somewhere dangerous and if it involves your garage, I will have to do MY job. Building inspector can fine you, make you tear it down, etc, etc if he thinks it violates some code but you two hash it out. I won't get involved.

That is his job. As long as it doesn't affect my living conditions in ways appreciable to me like where you have commercial traffic and the crap it brings or screws up my property value, I don't think I will bother to report you.

I see. How are we defining "friends and family"? Ask the hooker and all her "Johns" are her friends. Some companies define "family" as someone who can claim you or you can claim someone on the tax form. What you want to do is make a loose enough definition that it sounds like something but is meaningless in reality so you can't be called a hypocrite but you have enough wiggle room to make it do what you want.

IF I did choose to have a lift which makes things more efficient and promise that I will only use it for my own registered vehicles and a cop tickets me when he comes by and sees your car on it, I have ZERO grounds to complain.

You want to talk of ambiguity and you want to introduce ambiguity? How does that work? What I said has no ambiguity. Can't produce ownership papers for the car on your lift when the cop comes, get a ticket. There is no thought process needed, no argument or doubt. You what to talk family? What is the line? Sibilings and parents? How about 1st cousins? 2nd cousins or further? How about ex-spouse of a 3rd cousin? What about my daughter's husband's adopted son? Friends? What is that definition? My buddy's cousin? My 20 year friend? Again, where do you draw the line? How about the guy I met at Autozone who chatted with me for 20 minutes and promised to make it good for me if I changed his exhaust? Think you are being targeted? Get a license and be a LEGAL business and operate in a sanctioned area.

MOOT, not mute point. I totally agree you can have what you want on YOUR property. On public roads, well.....

And you are ok with me having a full mechanical shop on residential property as long as I promise it is for "friends and family only". Give me a break. Lifts aren't everyday items you see in a residential area and the few I have seen have been used for "donations and favors". What is it you expect me to think? That the next one isn't for personal use? When was the last lift YOU ever saw that was STRICTLY used for personal vehicles like you SEEM TO CLAIM but want exceptions?
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Old Yesterday, 08:19 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by 1985 Vette View Post
Wow, Commiefornia is out of control. I feel for you in CA, but please don't move to the NW; you wouldn't like the 8 months of rain anyway.... Even in SSR of WA, all emission testing ends after 2019. This is thanks to the Republicans in the legislature. So for those who say R's and D's are the same; you are wrong. If the D's had their way, WA would be another CA.
And if Rs had their way, are you sure it would be anything but the other side of the same coin? They too have their own agenda and since they take money from many sources, well....
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Old Yesterday, 08:26 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
I have no issues with emissions testing though. I don't see that as a personal freedom and as something (such as building codes) that is greater for the common good. I like the states that roll off the requirement at 25 or 30 years old - when a state legally observes the car as a classic. Plenty of new cars capable of making 700+hp and passing emissions. So, it has been proven power can be made and be emissions legal. I also don't mind states that say the catalyst can't be modified... but who give a flying flip over mufflers? We have noise restrictions and if my (fill in the blank brand) cat back sounds better and meets the legal limit, what is the problem?

To use this as a metaphor, I see the car you own the same as the tools... own any car/tool you want. Use said car/tool how you want. Operate it illegally (drive recklessly or cut the emissions off/run a business) then you get fined. Owning a ZR1 Vette doesn't in and to itself say you are a reckless driver no more than having a lift (or any other specialty tool) says you are operating a business. It has to be observed.... and to me just one or two cars sporadically worked on at your residence shouldn't incriminate you any more than being observed in a hot sports car.
As long as you keep it under the (insert legal sound limit), you can rice it all you want. Problem is people don't and go with "loud pipes save lives" and "it sounds like an old muscle car", drive it at night and disturb people and the rules pop up. Suddenly, people are crying about it. Used to be, we went to the nearby tavern for Brats and Brew for lunch. Some azzhat showed up for 3rd shift drunk every day, made tons of mistakes, got fired and after that, zero tolerance for alcohol.

Talk to the actuarial people. It says you are more likely to cause a claim in a ZR1 at 19 than a Toyota Camry at 45 and your rates go up.
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