Clutch sticking to floor under hard acceleration????
05-11-2009, 12:24 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
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Clutch sticking to floor under hard acceleration????
Hey everyone. I was driving the car yesterday and under hard acceleration from 3rd to 4th my clutch pedal stuck. It was still able to disengaged but i had to put my foot underneath the pedal and it literally poped back up. Has anyone ever come across this before?? Any helpful info would be great. I poped it back out and it worked fine. Just under hard accelerations would it do this. Thanks. Jay
05-11-2009, 12:44 PM
#2
Race Director
Hey everyone. I was driving the car yesterday and under hard acceleration from 3rd to 4th my clutch pedal stuck. It was still able to disengaged but i had to put my foot underneath the pedal and it literally poped back up. Has anyone ever come across this before?? Any helpful info would be great. I poped it back out and it worked fine. Just under hard accelerations would it do this. Thanks. Jay
the Stock Luk clutch SUCKS Period..
Yes it's a common problem.. and has sparked some HEATED debates..
Some insist changing the fluid eliminates the problem. Others and (ME) Never got relief until I swapped the Clutch Assembly..
While changing the fluid may mask the problem a bit.. simply because it removes just enough resistance for the pedal come back..
That is only treating the symptom and NOT the cause..
The real problem in my HUMBLE opinion is the Pressure Plate.. It binds at a high RPM and then stays disengaged for a few seconds.. Leaving the pedal on the floor..
It's the pressure plate springs that force the throwout bearing to push the Slave Piston to push the fluid to push the master piston to push the pedal back.. There is no MAGIC.. It all starts at the Pressure Plate.. The pressure Plate exerts HUNDREDS of pounds of forces... Certainly more than enough pressue to overcome dirty clutch fluid..
In fact its enough force to overcome 90 Weight Gear oil if the fluid ever got dirty enough to equal that resistance.. 
My suggestion is pick a good aftermarket clutch and swap it or you will be chasing this problem forever..
Last edited by chuckster; 05-11-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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05-11-2009, 01:58 PM
#3
Drifting
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This is the fix. I had the same issues and did what was explained on the links and no more issues.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-and-cure.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...al-issues.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...al-issues.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-and-cure.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...al-issues.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...al-issues.html
05-11-2009, 04:14 PM
#4
Drifting
It's the pressure plate springs that force the throwout bearing to push the Slave Piston to push the fluid to push the master piston to push the pedal back.. There is no MAGIC.. It all starts at the Pressure Plate..
In most cases where the clutch pedal sticks to the floor or partially sticks, the pressure plate remains engaged. The hydraulic system fails because of either a leak, insufficient fluid, bad fluid, overheated fluid, a damaged master cylinder or slave cylinder actuator. Any one of these conditions will cause difficulty in shifting.
OP, if you are not familiar with hydraulic clutch systems, I recommend you start with the troubleshooting procedure in the factory shop manual. Luk's web site provides some technical information but it is somewhat vague. Good luck.
http://www.lukclutch.com/support/clutch_basics.phtml
05-11-2009, 04:32 PM
#5
Race Director
It may not be majic but your assessment is incorrect. The luk pressure plate does not have springs, it has one single diaphragm spring that provides the necessary clamping force.
In most cases where the clutch pedal sticks to the floor or partially sticks, the pressure plate remains engaged. The hydraulic system fails because of either a leak, insufficient fluid, bad fluid, overheated fluid, a damaged master cylinder or slave cylinder actuator. Any one of these conditions will cause difficulty in shifting.
OP, if you are not familiar with hydraulic clutch systems, I recommend you start with the troubleshooting procedure in the factory shop manual. Luk's web site provides some technical information but it is somewhat vague. Good luck.
http://www.lukclutch.com/support/clutch_basics.phtml
In most cases where the clutch pedal sticks to the floor or partially sticks, the pressure plate remains engaged. The hydraulic system fails because of either a leak, insufficient fluid, bad fluid, overheated fluid, a damaged master cylinder or slave cylinder actuator. Any one of these conditions will cause difficulty in shifting.
OP, if you are not familiar with hydraulic clutch systems, I recommend you start with the troubleshooting procedure in the factory shop manual. Luk's web site provides some technical information but it is somewhat vague. Good luck.
http://www.lukclutch.com/support/clutch_basics.phtml
this is the diaphram "SPRING" I am referring to..The fingers I incorrectly called "Springs"
This "Spring" when overextended can also Stay in postion during extreme rpms due to centripital force..
Not ONE single person have ever had the clutch stick on the floor what was NOT driving it hard.. so its certainly RPM related..
Mine ONLY happened on hard shifts in any of the conditions below
Cold
Hot
New Fluid
New Master
Clutch Spring removed
Drilled out Master Cylinder Line
The problem went away after I got a new Clutch Assembly..
My new Cartek clutch (With heavier SPRINGS
)has not had a fluid change in 3 years and Monthly Track events.. Not even a HINT of stickage.. I am purposely not changing it so I can post here about the fluid change not being that important.I already admitted some people have seen relief from the fluid change.. BUT its not the source of the problem..
Here is a post I did tearing apart the slave cylinder to show you how much fluid we are talking about.. Its not ounces it's exactly 1 OZ or 2 Tablespoons to be exact..
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...cs-inside.html
Last edited by chuckster; 05-11-2009 at 04:41 PM.
05-11-2009, 04:46 PM
#6
Race Director
They forgot to add in the description..
Weak *** Diaphram Spring - Typically used in the OEM Clutch. This is especially suitable for the Corvette which is usually driven by men over 40 and not usually driven that hard.. Mostly to Corvette Club Dinner Events..
05-11-2009, 04:52 PM
#7
Drifting
I also experienced the same high RPM shifting problems you describe, the car is autocrossed at least once per month, it is slightly modified and my shift points are around 6200 RPM.
I've also had my clutch apart and replaced it with a factory LS6 unit. I now flush the clutch fluid using the factory shop manual procedure (from the slave cylinder) prior to every race, I have not had any more problems.
I really don't see how centrifugal force can prevent the diaphragm spring from returning to the engaged position. I have not done the calculations, but the pressure plate assembly would heve to be way beyond it's design maximum operating speed for that to happen. The clutch is designed so that clamping force increases with RPM. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.
I've also had my clutch apart and replaced it with a factory LS6 unit. I now flush the clutch fluid using the factory shop manual procedure (from the slave cylinder) prior to every race, I have not had any more problems.
I really don't see how centrifugal force can prevent the diaphragm spring from returning to the engaged position. I have not done the calculations, but the pressure plate assembly would heve to be way beyond it's design maximum operating speed for that to happen. The clutch is designed so that clamping force increases with RPM. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.
05-11-2009, 04:58 PM
#8
Drifting
Weak *** Diaphram Spring - Typically used in the OEM Clutch. This is especially suitable for the Corvette which is usually driven by men over 40 and not usually driven that hard.. Mostly to Corvette Club Dinner Events..
05-11-2009, 05:21 PM
#9
Drifting
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It is the poorly designed Slave cylinder that causes the problem. Seems all LS engines have the same issue with manual transmissions.
If you dont beat on the car you probably wont have an issue.
If you dont beat on the car you probably wont have an issue.
05-11-2009, 05:22 PM
#10
Race Director
I also experienced the same high RPM shifting problems you describe, the car is autocrossed at least once per month, it is slightly modified and my shift points are around 6200 RPM.
I've also had my clutch apart and replaced it with a factory LS6 unit. I now flush the clutch fluid using the factory shop manual procedure (from the slave cylinder) prior to every race, I have not had any more problems.
I really don't see how centrifugal force can prevent the diaphragm spring from returning to the engaged position. I have not done the calculations, but the pressure plate assembly would heve to be way beyond it's design maximum operating speed for that to happen. The clutch is designed so that clamping force increases with RPM. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.
I've also had my clutch apart and replaced it with a factory LS6 unit. I now flush the clutch fluid using the factory shop manual procedure (from the slave cylinder) prior to every race, I have not had any more problems.
I really don't see how centrifugal force can prevent the diaphragm spring from returning to the engaged position. I have not done the calculations, but the pressure plate assembly would heve to be way beyond it's design maximum operating speed for that to happen. The clutch is designed so that clamping force increases with RPM. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.
The LS6 Clutch has a heavier spring.. and that accounts for a lot..
And yes.. RPMS can affect the springs in they are in an OVERCENTER position.
Last edited by chuckster; 05-11-2009 at 05:27 PM.
05-11-2009, 05:44 PM
#11
Drifting
I don't see how the spring can get to an overcenter position without either exceeding the maximum design RPM (BY A LOT) or having a malfuctioning slave cylinder actuator that travels beyond full stroke and pushes it to an overcenter position.
The LS6 CLUTCH may have a greater clamping force but it is the same design as what came out. I placed both clutches side by side, took numerous measurements and could not find any difference between one and the other. I'm not proposing they are the same, but the differences are very subtle.
There are many on this forum that report the same type of issues with the LS6 CLUTCH. I've also read about individuals having the same issues with aftermarket clutches. I believe the common denominator to be the hydraulic system, as i previously stated, we will have to agree to disagree on this point.
The LS6 CLUTCH may have a greater clamping force but it is the same design as what came out. I placed both clutches side by side, took numerous measurements and could not find any difference between one and the other. I'm not proposing they are the same, but the differences are very subtle.
There are many on this forum that report the same type of issues with the LS6 CLUTCH. I've also read about individuals having the same issues with aftermarket clutches. I believe the common denominator to be the hydraulic system, as i previously stated, we will have to agree to disagree on this point.
05-11-2009, 06:22 PM
#13
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CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03
The pressure plate is the root cause. Always has been, always will be.
The problem with this, is that so many people chase the symptom, instead of chasing the cause.
"my pedal sticks after a high RPM shift" - that's a symptom.
"I modded my car, 450 hp, and now the pedal sticks" - that's a symptom.
Of those commonly-reported symptoms, it becomes very clear the root problem is not fluid related. The fluid, the master cyl, and the slave cyl have absolutely ZERO idea of what RPM and hp level they are actuating.
Push the pedal, the master cyl moves a very small volume of fluid to the slave cyl...the slave cyl then transmits that compressed hydraulic fluid and applies a linear force to the pressure plate spring to release the clutch disc and allow the shift. From a fluid power standpoint., it is an almost identical process at 20hp/1000 rpm, as it is at 500hp/7000rpm.
In those above situations, it is agreed that every shift at 1000rpm is flawless. It is only the latter high-RPM actuation that is problematic.
At that point, one needs to ask "what is changing?" between those two scenarios. It's likely not the fluid....it's not the hydraulic cylinders, so, it must be something else. Perhaps something that is rotating at engine RPM?
The first theory of Ranger is that the contaminated fluid was boiling, thus not building enough hydraulic pressure needed to overcome plate spring force.
That one was actually plausible, until it became proven that people could easily replicate the symptom on an ice-cold car after a single high-RPM shift.
His newest theory is now that clutch dust has infiltrated the slave seal, contaminated the fluid, and has compromised the master cyl seals. Imagine a master cyl that internally leaks only at high RPM's. (how does it know??)
I've been telling him for years that's he's chasing his tail, but any real words of wisdom that don't endorse his "protocol" quickly fall on deaf ears. His desire to be the person that found the solution to the symptom far outweighs that of any actual interest in finding the cause of the problem. As long as HE doesn't have the problem, that means what he does IS the solution.
There are a lot of band-aid tricks (like Ranger's) out there for the sticky pedal syndrome...they are as follows (and my opinion of how well they work):
Fluid changes/bleeding (sometimes/rarely successful)
Remove pedal assist spring (sometimes successful)
Drill mod (rarely/sometimes successful)
Heat-wrap the fluid hose between the master and slave cyls) (rarely successful)
Pedal stop (rarely successful)
Upgraded/adjustable master cyl) (sometimes successful)
Replace slave cyl only (rarely successful)
Replace clutch with "stronger" LS6/LS7 replacement (sometimes successful)
What makes some of these mods successful to some folks is they are at least doing something to work around the limitation of the actual problem component. They are not fixing the problem, they are fixing the symptom. A Band-Aid fix.
What people have to keep in mind is the Ranger mentality...."I did this, and no longer have the symptom", is not quite the same as "I found the problem".
The problem with this, is that so many people chase the symptom, instead of chasing the cause.
"my pedal sticks after a high RPM shift" - that's a symptom.
"I modded my car, 450 hp, and now the pedal sticks" - that's a symptom.
Of those commonly-reported symptoms, it becomes very clear the root problem is not fluid related. The fluid, the master cyl, and the slave cyl have absolutely ZERO idea of what RPM and hp level they are actuating.
Push the pedal, the master cyl moves a very small volume of fluid to the slave cyl...the slave cyl then transmits that compressed hydraulic fluid and applies a linear force to the pressure plate spring to release the clutch disc and allow the shift. From a fluid power standpoint., it is an almost identical process at 20hp/1000 rpm, as it is at 500hp/7000rpm.
In those above situations, it is agreed that every shift at 1000rpm is flawless. It is only the latter high-RPM actuation that is problematic.
At that point, one needs to ask "what is changing?" between those two scenarios. It's likely not the fluid....it's not the hydraulic cylinders, so, it must be something else. Perhaps something that is rotating at engine RPM?
The first theory of Ranger is that the contaminated fluid was boiling, thus not building enough hydraulic pressure needed to overcome plate spring force.
That one was actually plausible, until it became proven that people could easily replicate the symptom on an ice-cold car after a single high-RPM shift.
His newest theory is now that clutch dust has infiltrated the slave seal, contaminated the fluid, and has compromised the master cyl seals. Imagine a master cyl that internally leaks only at high RPM's. (how does it know??)
I've been telling him for years that's he's chasing his tail, but any real words of wisdom that don't endorse his "protocol" quickly fall on deaf ears. His desire to be the person that found the solution to the symptom far outweighs that of any actual interest in finding the cause of the problem. As long as HE doesn't have the problem, that means what he does IS the solution.
There are a lot of band-aid tricks (like Ranger's) out there for the sticky pedal syndrome...they are as follows (and my opinion of how well they work):
Fluid changes/bleeding (sometimes/rarely successful)
Remove pedal assist spring (sometimes successful)
Drill mod (rarely/sometimes successful)
Heat-wrap the fluid hose between the master and slave cyls) (rarely successful)
Pedal stop (rarely successful)
Upgraded/adjustable master cyl) (sometimes successful)
Replace slave cyl only (rarely successful)
Replace clutch with "stronger" LS6/LS7 replacement (sometimes successful)
What makes some of these mods successful to some folks is they are at least doing something to work around the limitation of the actual problem component. They are not fixing the problem, they are fixing the symptom. A Band-Aid fix.
What people have to keep in mind is the Ranger mentality...."I did this, and no longer have the symptom", is not quite the same as "I found the problem".
05-11-2009, 06:34 PM
#15
Race Director
The pressure plate is the root cause. Always has been, always will be.
The problem with this, is that so many people chase the symptom, instead of chasing the cause.
"my pedal sticks after a high RPM shift" - that's a symptom.
"I modded my car, 450 hp, and now the pedal sticks" - that's a symptom.
Of those commonly-reported symptoms, it becomes very clear the root problem is not fluid related. The fluid, the master cyl, and the slave cyl have absolutely ZERO idea of what RPM and hp level they are actuating.
Push the pedal, the master cyl moves a very small volume of fluid to the slave cyl...the slave cyl then transmits that compressed hydraulic fluid and applies a linear force to the pressure plate spring to release the clutch disc and allow the shift. From a fluid power standpoint., it is an almost identical process at 20hp/1000 rpm, as it is at 500hp/7000rpm.
In those above situations, it is agreed that every shift at 1000rpm is flawless. It is only the latter high-RPM actuation that is problematic.
At that point, one needs to ask "what is changing?" between those two scenarios. It's likely not the fluid....it's not the hydraulic cylinders, so, it must be something else. Perhaps something that is rotating at engine RPM?
The first theory of Ranger is that the contaminated fluid was boiling, thus not building enough hydraulic pressure needed to overcome plate spring force.
That one was actually plausible, until it became proven that people could easily replicate the symptom on an ice-cold car after a single high-RPM shift.
His newest theory is now that clutch dust has infiltrated the slave seal, contaminated the fluid, and has compromised the master cyl seals. Imagine a master cyl that internally leaks only at high RPM's. (how does it know??)
I've been telling him for years that's he's chasing his tail, but any real words of wisdom that don't endorse his "protocol" quickly fall on deaf ears. His desire to be the person that found the solution to the symptom far outweighs that of any actual interest in finding the cause of the problem. As long as HE doesn't have the problem, that means what he does IS the solution.
There are a lot of band-aid tricks (like Ranger's) out there for the sticky pedal syndrome...they are as follows (and my opinion of how well they work):
Fluid changes/bleeding (sometimes/rarely successful)
Remove pedal assist spring (sometimes successful)
Drill mod (rarely/sometimes successful)
Heat-wrap the fluid hose between the master and slave cyls) (rarely successful)
Pedal stop (rarely successful)
Upgraded/adjustable master cyl) (sometimes successful)
Replace slave cyl only (rarely successful)
Replace clutch with "stronger" LS6/LS7 replacement (sometimes successful)
What makes some of these mods successful to some folks is they are at least doing something to work around the limitation of the actual problem component. They are not fixing the problem, they are fixing the symptom. A Band-Aid fix.
What people have to keep in mind is the Ranger mentality...."I did this, and no longer have the symptom", is not quite the same as "I found the problem".
The problem with this, is that so many people chase the symptom, instead of chasing the cause.
"my pedal sticks after a high RPM shift" - that's a symptom.
"I modded my car, 450 hp, and now the pedal sticks" - that's a symptom.
Of those commonly-reported symptoms, it becomes very clear the root problem is not fluid related. The fluid, the master cyl, and the slave cyl have absolutely ZERO idea of what RPM and hp level they are actuating.
Push the pedal, the master cyl moves a very small volume of fluid to the slave cyl...the slave cyl then transmits that compressed hydraulic fluid and applies a linear force to the pressure plate spring to release the clutch disc and allow the shift. From a fluid power standpoint., it is an almost identical process at 20hp/1000 rpm, as it is at 500hp/7000rpm.
In those above situations, it is agreed that every shift at 1000rpm is flawless. It is only the latter high-RPM actuation that is problematic.
At that point, one needs to ask "what is changing?" between those two scenarios. It's likely not the fluid....it's not the hydraulic cylinders, so, it must be something else. Perhaps something that is rotating at engine RPM?
The first theory of Ranger is that the contaminated fluid was boiling, thus not building enough hydraulic pressure needed to overcome plate spring force.
That one was actually plausible, until it became proven that people could easily replicate the symptom on an ice-cold car after a single high-RPM shift.
His newest theory is now that clutch dust has infiltrated the slave seal, contaminated the fluid, and has compromised the master cyl seals. Imagine a master cyl that internally leaks only at high RPM's. (how does it know??)
I've been telling him for years that's he's chasing his tail, but any real words of wisdom that don't endorse his "protocol" quickly fall on deaf ears. His desire to be the person that found the solution to the symptom far outweighs that of any actual interest in finding the cause of the problem. As long as HE doesn't have the problem, that means what he does IS the solution.
There are a lot of band-aid tricks (like Ranger's) out there for the sticky pedal syndrome...they are as follows (and my opinion of how well they work):
Fluid changes/bleeding (sometimes/rarely successful)
Remove pedal assist spring (sometimes successful)
Drill mod (rarely/sometimes successful)
Heat-wrap the fluid hose between the master and slave cyls) (rarely successful)
Pedal stop (rarely successful)
Upgraded/adjustable master cyl) (sometimes successful)
Replace slave cyl only (rarely successful)
Replace clutch with "stronger" LS6/LS7 replacement (sometimes successful)
What makes some of these mods successful to some folks is they are at least doing something to work around the limitation of the actual problem component. They are not fixing the problem, they are fixing the symptom. A Band-Aid fix.
What people have to keep in mind is the Ranger mentality...."I did this, and no longer have the symptom", is not quite the same as "I found the problem".
Was waiting on you to step in here bro...
Last edited by chuckster; 05-11-2009 at 06:38 PM.
05-12-2009, 04:44 AM
#18
Drifting
The pressure plate is the root cause. Always has been, always will be.
If you want to believe that its the pressure plate, that is you opinion and you are entitled to it. I disagree with you that it's the definitive answer for all of the C-5/6 clutch problems out there, the physical aspects of the clutch do not support your theory. Until someone performs an experiment under controlled conditions by where the clutch's operation can be observed under high RPM & load conditions, nobody can make that kind of definitive statement on the problem.
05-12-2009, 10:06 AM
#19
Race Director
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Root cause of clutch pedal woes is fluid contaminated by clutch dust. Saturation by clutch dust in aggressively driven C5/C6 is confirmed by lab analysis (electron microscope) of clutch fluid. A copy of the lab report in linked in my Sticky threads on the C6Z and C6-Tech boards.
The clutch dust particulate is similar in effect to saw-dust in your eye. The lid tries to clear it and may succeed. But if blinked often enough, the dust may lacerate the cornea. Solution is removal of the saw dust and prevention of further entry.
Same with clutch dust. Shards of elemental copper (CU) and iron (FE) from the clutch disc infused into the fluid can imbed the hydraulic seals and create wear points that leads to failure in maintaining nominal pressure. Hence sticking pedal. The path is to prevent clutch dust from ever accumulating in the hydraulics. If you only start that after issues arise, you will not rectify it if the seals are already damaged. At that point, try a new master cylinder and from that point onward, keep the fluid clean.
Some of the posters to this thread need to do some reading. A lot has been discovered since they dug in to their positions.
Ranger
The clutch dust particulate is similar in effect to saw-dust in your eye. The lid tries to clear it and may succeed. But if blinked often enough, the dust may lacerate the cornea. Solution is removal of the saw dust and prevention of further entry.
Same with clutch dust. Shards of elemental copper (CU) and iron (FE) from the clutch disc infused into the fluid can imbed the hydraulic seals and create wear points that leads to failure in maintaining nominal pressure. Hence sticking pedal. The path is to prevent clutch dust from ever accumulating in the hydraulics. If you only start that after issues arise, you will not rectify it if the seals are already damaged. At that point, try a new master cylinder and from that point onward, keep the fluid clean.
Some of the posters to this thread need to do some reading. A lot has been discovered since they dug in to their positions.
Ranger
05-12-2009, 10:30 AM
#20
Race Director
Root cause of clutch pedal woes is fluid contaminated by clutch dust. Saturation by clutch dust in aggressively driven C5/C6 is confirmed by lab analysis (electron microscope) of clutch fluid. A copy of the lab report in linked in my Sticky threads on the C6Z and C6-Tech boards.
The clutch dust particulate is similar in effect to saw-dust in your eye. The lid tries to clear it and may succeed. But if blinked often enough, the dust may lacerate the cornea. Solution is removal of the saw dust and prevention of further entry.
Same with clutch dust. Shards of elemental copper (CU) and iron (FE) from the clutch disc infused into the fluid can imbed the hydraulic seals and create wear points that leads to failure in maintaining nominal pressure. Hence sticking pedal. The path is to prevent clutch dust from ever accumulating in the hydraulics. If you only start that after issues arise, you will not rectify it if the seals are already damaged. At that point, try a new master cylinder and from that point onward, keep the fluid clean.
Some of the posters to this thread need to do some reading. A lot has been discovered since they dug in to their positions.
Ranger
The clutch dust particulate is similar in effect to saw-dust in your eye. The lid tries to clear it and may succeed. But if blinked often enough, the dust may lacerate the cornea. Solution is removal of the saw dust and prevention of further entry.
Same with clutch dust. Shards of elemental copper (CU) and iron (FE) from the clutch disc infused into the fluid can imbed the hydraulic seals and create wear points that leads to failure in maintaining nominal pressure. Hence sticking pedal. The path is to prevent clutch dust from ever accumulating in the hydraulics. If you only start that after issues arise, you will not rectify it if the seals are already damaged. At that point, try a new master cylinder and from that point onward, keep the fluid clean.
Some of the posters to this thread need to do some reading. A lot has been discovered since they dug in to their positions.
Ranger
I can understand if you were trying to bang the clutch pedal to the floor and back at lightning speed.. But it sticks at high rpms regardless of fast shifts or normal shifts, or hot, or cold..
Only common thing being RPMS..
Last time I checked the Slave does not spin.. Only the face of the throwout bearing..